Survey in run-up to 7/7

[Geronimo]

Maybe because the police shoot innocent Muslims?
Oh but wait.... it was for a good cause.

Wouldn't it less likely happen if more muslims were cops?

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

Those police men were following orders. So no.

 

[Geronimo]

Those police men were following orders. So no.

They were ordered to shoot innocent people?

 

[Muezzin]

Heh, I read that article yesterday at work, glo. It made me chuckle how paranoid people are going to get over the dreaded 13 percent - DUM DUM DUM!

It also made me sad that 13 percent of the Muslims involved in the survey think how they do. Unless, of course, they were pulling the surveyor's leg and/or otherwise having a laugh.

 

[glo]

Heh, I read that article yesterday at work, glo. It made me chuckle how paranoid people are going to get over the dreaded 13 percent - DUM DUM DUM!

13 per cent, believe the 7/7 bombers should be regarded as "martyrs".

Do you mean non-Muslims are getting paranoid about it?
I dunno, Muezzin. I live in a community with a sizeable minority of Muslims. If I knew that 13 out of 100 of my Muslim neighbours felt so sympathetic towards the 7/7 bombers, I would be worried too! Wouldn't you?

Unless, of course, they were pulling the surveyor's leg and/or otherwise having a laugh.

Well, that's always the danger with surveys. Let's hope that ITV News and The Times know how to conduct a fairly reliable survey.

Are you surprised to hear that 13% should feel that way?

Peace.

 

[HeiGou]

Maybe because the police shoot innocent Muslims?
Oh but wait.... it was for a good cause.

One innocent Muslim. One police man. That is like saying all Muslims blow up buses.

And it was for a good cause. Or perhaps you think the cause, defeating terrorism and protecting innocent lives, is not a good one?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Two-in-three - 65 per cent - said their community needed to integrate better into British society.

integrating into the british society implies what exactly? What is meant by this?

 

[glo]

integrating into the british society implies what exactly? What is meant by this?

That's what muslim-friend and I were wondering earlier in this thread.
We both seemed to have different interpretations of the term 'integration'.

It would be helpful to know, how it was defined for the sake of this survey ...

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

as long as we're not asked to change our religion in any way then its ok. Your idea of integration sounds a lot like preaching and coming to common terms, i think thats a brilliant idea "IF" thats what is meant

 

[Muezzin]

Do you mean non-Muslims are getting paranoid about it?
I dunno, Muezzin. I live in a community with a sizeable minority of Muslims. If I knew that 13 out of 100 of my Muslim neighbours felt so sympathetic towards the 7/7 bombers, I would be worried too! Wouldn't you?

Yep. Though I personally just steer clear of these kind of erm... aggressive members of society.

Well, that's always the danger with surveys. Let's hope that ITV News and The Times know how to conduct a fairly reliable survey.

Are you surprised to hear that 13% should feel that way?

Peace.

Indeed. That's why I said it makes me sad to hear it.

 

[muslim_friend]

I know policy makers and politicians have thoughts and ideas about this ...
But I am talking about people taking action at their individual levels, in their local communities.
--------
I dunno ... these are just a few things that come into my head.:?

Well and fine. But it also looks like many people in Britain do not want the Muslims into their community. I think many Britishers want muslims segregated, as is happening to the Asian community right now.

Someone in the Guardian referred to Islam as a "death cult", the day after the 7/7 attacks. If that is the kind of attitude, when and how will there be mututal understanding? I think the British non-muslim community have got to flush out these hate-mongers as well. Such editorials or propaganda which are the key sources of info to many people, will only brainwash them more and more and the good points that you suggested will only prove a waste.. It's kinda like bailing out water from a flooded house.. whereas the water just keeps coming in.

 

[Woodrow]

And yet two thirds of them would not be proud if their children gave something back to the community by joining the police.

That is very sad.

Looking at it in that light it might sound as if means that. I would suspect tho that the percentage would not be much different if the question were asked to Native Brits. Keep in mind being a Police Officer is not the career of choice many parents would select for their children. Most parents tend to think of careers to be proud of are things like Doctors, Lawyers, Scientists etc. Many people have a connontation of Police Officer being on the same level as unskilled labor.

 

[glo]

Well and fine. But it also looks like many people in Britain do not want the Muslims into their community. I think many Britishers want muslims segregated, as is happening to the Asian community right now.

Someone in the Guardian referred to Islam as a "death cult", the day after the 7/7 attacks. If that is the kind of attitude, when and how will there be mututal understanding? I think the British non-muslim community have got to flush out these hate-mongers as well. Such editorials or propaganda which are the key sources of info to many people, will only brainwash them more and more and the good points that you suggested will only prove a waste.. It's kinda like bailing out water from a flooded house.. whereas the water just keeps coming in.

Of course this has to be a two-sided approach!

I think greater efforts have to made to create greater understanding between the two cultures. It need both our cultures to be willing to try. And we should never give up trying!

What I mean is that it's not enough to wait for religious and political leaders to deal with these matters.

We all have the responsility as individuals to 'do our bit' to reduce the gap between the cultures.
That doesn't mean either of us should have to give up our values or lifestyle requirements - but that we learn to accept them!
(If I learn to accept that Muslimahs wearing headscarves does not mean that they are oppressed, can you learn to accept that non-Muslims women not wearing headscarves does not make them loose women of low moral standards? You may find this silly, but that's the level of perception of each other's culture I speak about)

If we all drip-drip-drip away at the stereotypes within ourselves, we will eventually change society. I strongly believe that! Do you?

peace

 

[HeiGou]

Someone in the Guardian referred to Islam as a "death cult", the day after the 7/7 attacks. If that is the kind of attitude, when and how will there be mututal understanding?

Well you have to see how that looks from the perspective of a non-Muslim. Look at the avatars and so on of the people who post here. They show, from a non-Muslim point of view, an odd obsession with death. People claim, often and without any sign of radicalism, that they are in a prison, that for the Believer this world is passing and death is the goal and so on. What does, by the way, in the heart of a green bird mean exactly? It would be rude to put it the way you claim the Guardian did - and do you have a source by the way as I find it hard to believe that the PC Guardian did any such thing - but surely you can see how that looks from the outside?

I think the British non-muslim community have got to flush out these hate-mongers as well.

I think that equating someone who says Islam is obsessed with death with someone who straps a bomb to himself and blows himself up on the Tube is inherently offensive. It equates the deaths of 52 people and the maiming of over 700 with some hurt feelings. I can only assume that a dislike of the community that produced the victims and a single-minded one-sided focus on the community that had the hurt feelings can result in such claims - in other words you are weighing up death and maimed kafirs with insulted Muslims and not coming to the conclusion the dead kafirs are the real problem. Would that be a fair summary of your views?

Such editorials or propaganda which are the key sources of info to many people, will only brainwash them more and more and the good points that you suggested will only prove a waste.. It's kinda like bailing out water from a flooded house.. whereas the water just keeps coming in.

And where were the bombers brainwashed and by what and what has the British Muslim community done about it recently?

 

[Sis786]

And where were the bombers brainwashed and by what and what has the British Muslim community done about it recently?

The Muslim community has said that they dont support this and i think they have done thier best. I know the Mosques in Birmingham have held talks! Now the Muslim community cannot control what people learn on the Net and other places.

I think recentally the pressure has been applied to the "Community" for goodness sakes what do they want them to do. They hold talks and try to put the right message accross. And if 4 boys never listened and did thier own thing on 7/7 is that the fault of the Community?

To resolve this problem what needs to be done is that the Uk Goverment need to stop lying to the public come open about its policies. They need to accept that the on going wars abroad are affecting the Muslims here.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

One innocent Muslim. One police man. That is like saying all Muslims blow up buses.

And it was for a good cause. Or perhaps you think the cause, defeating terrorism and protecting innocent lives, is not a good one?

De ja vous. We've been here before, haven't we? I don't think it's going to get anywhere this time either.

 

[HeiGou]

The Muslim community has said that they dont support this and i think they have done thier best. I know the Mosques in Birmingham have held talks! Now the Muslim community cannot control what people learn on the Net and other places.

I agree that some leaders of most Muslim communities have said they do not support the suicide bombings. In London. I don't think they have done their best. They could have been more understanding after the Forest Gate raid. They could have said they regreted the shooting, but they understood the need to combat terrorism. Did they do that? Did they help the police deal with the terror threat in any way or have they just been obstructive? I can post comments by the Pope regarding terrorism in Ireland if you like. Has any Muslim community leader ever come out with something similar?

I think recentally the pressure has been applied to the "Community" for goodness sakes what do they want them to do. They hold talks and try to put the right message accross. And if 4 boys never listened and did thier own thing on 7/7 is that the fault of the Community?

Well yes. Those boys were not born terrorists. Somewhere along the way they learnt that this was Islamic and what God wanted. Where did they do that? Certainly not on the BBC or reading the Independent. They seem to have met at the Stratford Street Mosque and the Hamara Healthy Living Centre in Beeston. Christians did not run those two institutions. I am not saying that all Muslims are to blame, but somewhere along the line someone failed to explain properly to these boys what was Islamic and what was not. It is NOT that they did not listen or that they did their own thing. They were active members of the Muslim community.

To resolve this problem what needs to be done is that the Uk Goverment need to stop lying to the public come open about its policies. They need to accept that the on going wars abroad are affecting the Muslims here.

I don't accept that as the solution. In fact I think it is the problem. I think it is proof your claim about the Muslims doing the right thing is wrong. You are inciting hatred against the British government and hence encouraging more bombings. Where is the evidence that the British government has lied? Where is the evidence that wars abroad in any way affect British Muslims in a meaningful way? I will agree that someone told those four British Muslims, none of whom were of Iraqi, Palestinian, or Afghan descent, that the wars overseas hurt them, but only in an abstract sense. Not in any direct way. Somewhere you too have learnt to claim that the British government is lying. Somewhere you have learnt to shift the blame for the bombings from the young men who did it, to the British government which is simply pursuing British interests and British foreign policy - as stupid as you might think that policy is. The next step is an obvious one - punish the British public for voting that government into power. Now I do not doubt that you will disclaim all responsibility for the inevitable consequences of your actions - after all the bombings are my fault not Muhamed Siddiq Khan's - but why would you think any non-Muslim would agree with that?

 

[Sis786]

I agree that some leaders of most Muslim communities have said they do not support the suicide bombings. In London. I don't think they have done their best. They could have been more understanding after the Forest Gate raid. They could have said they regreted the shooting, but they understood the need to combat terrorism. Did they do that? Did they help the police deal with the terror threat in any way or have they just been obstructive? I can post comments by the Pope regarding terrorism in Ireland if you like. Has any Muslim community leader ever come out with something similar?

Like i said before i think that the Community leaders have tried but they too are restricted. Did you hear of the Peace and Unity Event in London Dec 2005, Over 25,000.00 muslims came and the whole event was based on the correct concept of Peace in Islam

Yet the speakers who included Labour MPS, George Galloway, Yvonne Riddley and Imran Khan, stated that the Goverment needs to do more. And that there is a major connection with the policies abroad and the terroism threat in the UK.

I mean im sure you seen the tape of Siddiq Khan before 7/7 HE said that the killings abroad have made him depressed and hurt. No young boys wanna go and get on a train and kill themselves and others. These boys had a lot to live for they had children, work and family.

The Goverement need to accept that there is a problem in the UK and the young Muslims are affetced by the war in Afghan and Iraq and the situation in Palestine. They need to look "WHY" did these Boys do this instead of looking at someone or something to blame.

Well yes. Those boys were not born terrorists. Somewhere along the way they learnt that this was Islamic and what God wanted.

When you are upset and retsricted and hurt you are easily led!

Where is the evidence that the British government has lied?

Dont make me laugh!!

Where is the evidence that wars abroad in any way affect British Muslims in a meaningful way?

This is where most are blind!

 

[Geronimo]

How are you restricted?

 

[Sis786]

How are you restricted?

Well one example would be that our arses can be blown off if we open the door to the police and how about NOT talking about those people in Palestine and Iraq that are defending themselves from the evils of the west (New terroism laws)

Most of it has to do with the freedom of talking about Palestine and Iraq and other countries where the policies of the west are killing innocents.