Taliban in America

[Hamza Asadullah]

I dont see how I was being rude to you or anyone else on this discussion. I actually won’t be posting videos from youtube or articles! Like that would actually constitute as evidence that Taliban are good or bad people, if you think it does then well.... "I think what you write is fair game to anyone here to dismantle with minor effort!".

And btw as “Muslim” who should be utterly ashamed of calling another Muslim a hypocrite!
In fact I won’t reply to you any longer, I wasted enough of time already!
Let face, you do like those who do not support the Taliban Muslims or otherwise! Simple!
Goodnight!
(Gone

In Islam the definition of a hypocrite is one who when they are with Muslims they make it out as if they are on their side but when they are with non Muslims then they make it out as if they are on their side but in reality they are on neither side. Who side are you actually on> because it is clear that you certainly are not on Muslims side and you have proven that over and over again yet you have also claimed that you are not on the side of a non Muslim. So it does seem like you are not on either side.

I think you are clearly out of your depth in these discussions and that you should certainly go and tend to your children. Please do not fill their heads with the same hatred you hold for your Muslim brothers and sisters.

 

[purple]

Sister it seems to me as if you have a habit of always assuming things. You have already assumed that the Taliban are suicide bombers when you have already confirmed you know nothing about them. You have also stated that Iraq was already worse off before invasion when you have also confirmed that you know nothing about Iraq. Then you assume that i take my research from youtube. Now you have created a lie claiming i called you a moderate when i never said such a word unless you can quote it?

The point is I just find it shameful that you as a Muslim keeps on slandering those who you have already stated you know nothing about but instead choose to believe what the media portrays about them. These 'doubts' you talk about you obviously got from the media. So you would rather blindly believe their doubts than to trust your Muslim brothers and sisters. Very sad.

I think this should be a lesson to you to open your eyes and look at both sides of the coin rather than just one side. May Allah open up your heart and eyes to the truth and may Allah open the hearts of all the Muslims and non Muslims to the REAL truth of what is going on in the world today. Ameen

I keep on saying this Pakistan Taliban have already said they did some of the attack on Pakistan. This does mean it is AfghanistanTaliban which is the group I am not sure about.
2. I have not said you called me a moderate Muslim, please read again. I said other Muslims I came across have said that about me because I stated my stance.


It is not just about the media, it also about those brothers and sisters who have said they too suffered at the hands of Taliban. What those people we ignore them and just trust the Taliban!
I find it shameful that you cannot simply accept that I will not support the Taliban. I only put my trust and faith in Allah (swt). Noone else.
I simply do not like to follow people and that includes Muslims who post videos or articles saying I should support them and put them trust in one particular group.
I rather have mine own thinking, seeking the truth NOT by you, Yale, “Zionist media”. I want to speak to Taliban member, myself when I do go out there. That may sound crazy but that is the only way I will give my full support to anyone!
Ameen to dua.

 

[purple]

????

Indeed I think you should give it a rest!

all the best

lol sorry I mean "do not like".

 

[aadil77]

I keep on saying this Pakistan Taliban have already said they did some of the attack on Pakistan. This does mean it is AfghanistanTaliban which is the group I am not sure about.
2. I have not said you called me a moderate Muslim, please read again. I said other Muslims I came across have said that about me because I stated my stance.


It is not just about the media, it also about those brothers and sisters who have said they too suffered at the hands of Taliban. What people we ignore them and just trust the Taliban!
I find it shameful that you cannot simply accept that I will not support the Taliban. I only put my trust and faith in Allah (swt). Noone else.
I simply do not like to follow people and that includes Muslims who post videos or articles saying I should support them and put them trust in one particular group.
I rather have mine own thinking, seeking the truth NOT by you, Yale, “Zionist media”. I want to speak to Taliban member, myself when I do go out there. That may sound crazy but that is the only way I will give my full support to anyone!


...
Ameen to dua.

no one is telling you to support the taliban or any other group, the main thing as a muslim is that you should not be too quick to condemn fellow muslims

remember this ayaah when you hear of accusations against other muslims:

O you who believe! If a Faasiq (liar — evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done​

...

 

[GuestFellow]

It is not just about the media, it also about those brothers and sisters who have said they too suffered at the hands of Taliban. What those people we ignore them and just trust the Taliban!

Yes but we are having a formal discussion. It is a possibility some Muslims might have suffered from the Taliban, but we need evidence. If there is evidence to show that some members of the Taliban have carried out acts that are not in accordance with Islamic teachings, then we would like to see it.

I find it shameful that you cannot simply accept that I will not support the Taliban. I only put my trust and faith in Allah (swt). Noone else.

Like I said before, that is fine. I agree, that we should trust Allah (swt). I hope I did not give you the impression that I want you to support the Taliban, that is your choice.

I want to speak to Taliban member, myself when I do go out there.

There are other ways of confirming the truth.

Anyway, I think we all can agree that we should not make assumptions and it is best to rely on evidence. Also, we should keep an open mind because during conflicts a lot can change.

 

[purple]

no one is telling you to support the taliban or any other group, the main thing as a muslim is that you should not be too quick to condemn fellow muslims

remember this ayaah when you hear of accusations against other muslims:

O you who believe! If a Faasiq (liar — evil person) comes to you with any news, verify it, lest you should harm people in ignorance, and afterwards you become regretful for what you have done​

...

Okay
Fair enough

 

[purple]

Anyway, I think we all can agree that we should not make assumptions and it is best to rely on evidence. Also, we should keep an open mind because during conflicts a lot can change.

cool, I agree about keeping an open mind. And I will try.

 

[Lynx]

What about remaining 60%?

Right after the part you are quoting I noted that the figure does not include non-pakistani members like the Chechnyans and Arabs. That could be really close to 50%. I think that's sufficient to say the Taliban were largely foreign.

Just because there are Taliban soldiers who happen to be Pakistani, does not necessarily mean that the Pakistani government supports them.

"While Musharraf admitted the Taliban were being sheltered in the lawless frontier border regions, the declassified U.S. documents released today clearly illustrate that the Taliban was directly funded, armed and advised by Islamabad itself." (http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB227/)

You can also research for yourself the ISI's involvement in Afghanistan and the training of Gulbideen Hekmatyar. I've given you plenty of names and topics that you can look up for yourself.

Yes, but I want evidence. I would like more detail.

I don't know what you are saying 'yes' to but why are you on this thread if you don't know anything about the Taliban's history? This is common knowledge that a simple google search could inform you about. edit: (i will inform you anyway) After the Soviets got kicked out, there was a power vacuum which resulted in a civil war between the warlords who had previously fought off the Russians. The Taliban started its own campaign south from the border and, with their foreign support, were able to drive the other warlords up North who were exhausted from all the fighting. This resulted in the majority control the Taliban had and the civil war they were fighting with the other warlords who had stopped their invasion just short of the northern province of Panjsher.

.

Why would Pakistan would like to gain control of that region? Oh evidence for this too.

Well the geographic importance of Afghanistan is known by all. Moreover, there is a history of Pakistani meddling in Afghan politics since the time of Gulbideen and now the Taliban (the funding of and training of soldiers). At the very least, American intelligence agrees with me and you can see that in the site I linked above.

Source...

Again, why are you even discussing this with me if you don't know anything about the region? Type in Ahmad Shah Massoud in Google.

So? You can be educated at Oxford University but it does not mean you are fit to govern a country. Though being educated can be a good basis to get into politics.

And what I said in my last post is that I don't expect a governing body like the Taliban to make any improvements considering they don't have any of the specialized training to govern a country. Locking people up in their homes for 'safety' might reduce the crime rate but law and order are not sufficient in themselves to bring a country out of poverty. The President of America is not an economist there's a reason why he's surrounded by them.

I'm not entirely sure but what are you trying to prove exactly? That the Afghan people do not support the Taliban?

The level of support the Taliban gets from the Muslim world is very misplaced. They are hardly the noble mujahideen fighting the evil NATO crusaders that some of you like to believe.

@Fallen Angel

Wow, way to generalize things. Quite evident you're speaking out of ignorance rather than facts. I've never been sent to a madrassa but i know people who have and none of them turned into"taliban kids" and got sent off to Afghanistan..

I wasn't generalizing. I was talking about a specific brand of Madrassas that are infamous for sending wannabe martyrs to Afghanistan. The rest of your post attempts to criticize my argument by attacking my motives. This is a logical fallacy and if you can re-post something that actually addresses the topic at hand rather than some imaginary bias you think I have then I will be more than happy to respond.

@Lily

I am not shocked by your ignorance-No!.. but if you are going to put your own spin on an Arabic term again do it with like minded fools

I wasn't putting my spin on any Arabic terms; I was talking about a specific brand of madrassas that are infamous for sending wannabe martyrs to Afghanistan. The rest of your post is your usual anger-management stuff.

@Hamza

This might also come as a shock to you but the media will never truly tell you the full truth in context about the invasions of Afghanistan or Iraq for they will tell you their own created "truth". It is very clear to all that you know nothing about the people in Afghanistan apart from what you read in the papers or on the news and you make it out like you know exactly what the Afghan people want. How much more do you want to expose your flawed and baseless arguments?

I welcome you to challenge what I've said any time.


Conclusion:

This thread is full of people who have a lot to say about a region that they are completely ignorant about. Afghanistan has gone through many decades of war and its people are suffering. If you can't help, at least learn about it. That's a start.

 

[جوري]

@Lily


I wasn't putting my spin on any Arabic terms; I was talking about a specific brand of madrassas that are infamous for sending wannabe martyrs to Afghanistan. The rest of your post is your usual anger-management stuff.

except you didn't specify any brands .. this is in fact what you wrote:

since most of them seem to come from madrassas

I am asking you again, have you something against schools or the specific occult type that we were meant to intuitively derive from your writing? Do you know what the curriculum is in those specific 'Madrassas'?

 

[Lynx]

except you didn't specify any brands .. this is in fact what you wrote:


I am asking you again, have you something against schools or the specific occult type that we were meant to intuitively derive from your writing? Do you know what the curriculum is in those specific 'Madrassas'?

"However, most of the leaders of the current Taliban regime in Afghanistan have been influenced by the teachings of Islam in Pakistan, where they had migrated with millions of other Afghans after the Soviet invasion. There, they attended religious seminaries or "madrassas", while many of them also remained active fighting the Soviets in the battlefields. They are the followers of the "Deobandi" school of thought, preached by mullahs (clerics) in Pakistani madrassas. The Deobandi school emerged as a reform movement in British India with the aim of rejuvenating Islamic society in a colonial state. The Pakistani version of the Deobandi schools in Afghan refugee camps were, however, often run by in-experienced and semi-literate mullahs, associated with Pakistan's Jami'at-e 'Ulema-e Islam (JUI) political party."

http://www.institute-for-afghan-studies.org/AFGHAN CONFLICT/TALIBAN/intro_kakar.htm

Does that help?
Emphasis mine.

 

[جوري]

"However, most of the leaders of the current Taliban regime in Afghanistan have been influenced by the teachings of Islam in Pakistan, where they had migrated with millions of other Afghans after the Soviet invasion. There, they attended religious seminaries or "madrassas", while many of them also remained active fighting the Soviets in the battlefields. They are the followers of the "Deobandi" school of thought, preached by mullahs (clerics) in Pakistani madrassas. The Deobandi school emerged as a reform movement in British India with the aim of rejuvenating Islamic society in a colonial state. The Pakistani version of the Deobandi schools in Afghan refugee camps were, however, often run by in-experienced and semi-literate mullahs, associated with Pakistan's Jami'at-e 'Ulema-e Islam (JUI) political party." http://www.institute-for-afghan-stud...ntro_kakar.htm Does that help? Emphasis mine.

I keep asking you if you have something against Islamic education or if you even know what it entails? I fear you display deeper ignorance with each subsequent post, do you simply want to put something down for the sake of spamming?... This is just a piece of crap you googled.. it doesn't tell me anything about their curriculum.. and it certainly doesn't exonerate you from misuse of the term, you are merely parroting what you believe though it is composed entirely of fluff.. like the idiots who talk about wahbism, when there is no such school or sect in Islam called Wahabism. You're such an inexperienced rookie, it is almost amusing to read such inane regurgitated platitudes.. Are you capable of a real discussion or for that matter an independent thought?

all the best

 

[Lynx]

*waits for accusations of "zionist propaganda"*

That's always fun

I dug up a pretty informative paper with more details as to what exactly is taught in these madrassas.

"Most madrassa instructors will never admit to coercing their students into joining the
Taliban.29 However, Muaulana Samiul Haq, headmaster of the Darul uloom Haqqania madrassa,
was quoted as saying, “Young minds are not for thinking. We catch them for the [madrassas]
when they are young, and by the time they are old enough to think, they know what to think”
(Haqqani 63). Lal Masjid’s madrassa is a rare case where the madrassas managers publically
support the Taliban and “encourage their students to join the anti-Western jihad in Afghanistan”
(Ahmad). At Darul uloom Haqqania’s commencement ceremony in 2003, “in their speeches,
teachers and religious scholars urged the students to put defending their faith before everything
else” (H. Rashid 2003). Even if the madrassas in Pakistan do not make militants, “they create a
worldview that makes militancy possible” (Tavernise)."

http://escholar.salve.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1044&context=pell_theses

 

[جوري]

That's always fun

http://escholar.salve.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1044&context=pell_theses

It is indeed worthy of a guffaw betty crocker.. btw who is Nicole Warren outside of a student at the Catholic coeducational university of the arts and sciences?

Did you get lost on the way to the motley fool forum? ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[Lynx]

I keep asking you if you have something against Islamic education or if you even know what it entails? I fear you display deeper ignorance with each subsequent post, do you simply want to put something down for the sake of spamming?...

I don't have anything against Islamic education. I don't see anything in any of my posts that claimed anything against Islaimc education. What I said was the taliban militants are not learning things at these madrassas that could make them capable of qualified to run a nation. I've given you two links, the second of which is especially informative, that tells us what these talibs are learning at their madrassas. Do you think any of it teaches the basics of macroeconomic theory? loL

This is just a piece of crap you googled.. it doesn't tell me anything about their curriculum.. and it certainly doesn't exonerate you from misuse of the term,

I did not misuse any term. If anyone misused the term 'madrassa' it's the mullahs in Pakistan that train little boys to become taliban insurgents.

you are merely parroting what you believe though it is composed entirely of fluff.. like the idiots who talk about wahbism, when there is no such school or sect in Islam called Wahabism. You're such an inexperienced rookie, it is almost amusing to read such inane regurgitated platitudes.. Are you capable of a real discussion or for that matter an independent thought?

all the best

Sigh, wahabis are hanbalis. This is a different topic altogether and if you want to discuss wahabis and salafis and hanbalis start a new thread.

 

[Lynx]

It is indeed worthy of a guffaw betty crocker.. btw who is Nicole Warren outside of a student at the Catholic coeducational university of the arts and sciences?

Did you get lost on the way to the motley fool forum? ;D ;D ;D ;D

woah you don't just disregard any paper written by someone who might have a questionable bias, do you? I mean you actually go through the footnotes first, right?

In any case, do whatever you want, the burden of proof is on you guys to show that the Taliban madrassas teach things to their students that are beneficial to running a country.

 

[جوري]

I don't have anything against Islamic education. I don't see anything in any of my posts that claimed anything against Islaimc education. What I said was the taliban militants are not learning things at these madrassas that could make them capable of qualified to run a nation. I've given you two links, the second of which is especially informative, that tells us what these talibs are learning at their madrassas. Do you think any of it teaches the basics of macroeconomic theory? loL

and I keep asking you to prove it with something outside of a student dissertation from a catholic community college!
throwing out terms whose meaning and usage you seem inept to putting in a correct context and then laughing at your own banalities only cements your cognitive conservatism if not frank psychopathy and I am being rather gentle here!

I did not misuse any term. If anyone misused the term 'madrassa' it's the mullahs in Pakistan that train little boys to become taliban insurgents.

A madrassa means school no more no less. schools can have a parochial education. The mere fact that said education doesn't offer BCP's to 11 year olds and sex education to fifth graders isn't something that you personally have much say in let along by way of ridicule. Also one country's 'insurgent' is another country's freedom fighter.. that is how the afghans have been kicking ass for centuries!
works better than 750 prosthesis, pork rinds and the occasional stand comic in defense of their sovereign nation I'd say far better than your homos in the military-- in fact so tells us history about their nation.

Sigh, wahabis are hanbalis. This is a different topic altogether and if you want to discuss wahabis and salafis and hanbalis start a new thread.

As a general rule, you shouldn't be the first or even the last to comment on any school of figh or Islamic jurisprudence. Wahabis aren't hanbalis anymore than they're maliki or hanfi you are ridiculous.. there is no such thing as a wahabi whether or not it belongs on this thread it just works to highlight your folly not that extraneous extras are needed to demonstrate that!

all the best

 

[جوري]

woah you don't just disregard any paper written by someone who might have a questionable bias, do you? I mean you actually go through the footnotes first, right? In any case, do whatever you want, the burden of proof is on you guys to show that the Taliban madrassas teach things to their students that are beneficial to running a country.

I am not the one making an accusation to have a burden of proof. What authority does the paper have outside of making you feel better? It is like Tweedledee bringing Tweedledum for backup.
as for what the madrassas teach, well frankly who cares so long as they kick some foreign ass which is exactly what they've been doing for centuries.. I mean isn't that your objection to begin with? that for all the money, equipments and homos sent you're unable to subjugate the people of Afghanistan so the best you can do is a smear campaign and an article by girl from a catholic community college? frankly you're pathetic!

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

woah you don't just disregard any paper written by someone who might have a questionable bias, do you? I mean you actually go through the footnotes first, right?

In any case, do whatever you want, the burden of proof is on you guys to show that the Taliban madrassas teach things to their students that are beneficial to running a country.

Your sources are so laughable and you are really making yourself look like a fool now. I told you before save the little credibility you have left and now you have none at all. There is no burden on us to prove anything to you. You have tried but failed miserably with your pathetic excuse of sources that you have provided. Thanks for providing us with a good laugh.

 

[Lynx]

and I keep asking you to prove it with something outside of a student dissertation from a catholic community college!
throwing out terms whose meaning and usage you seem inept to putting in a correct context and then laughing at your own banalities only cements your cognitive conservatism if not frank psychopathy and I am being rather gentle here!

I told you my previous post, read the footnotes. Poisoning the well is a logical fallacy last i checked especialyl when the footnotes are there for you to see.

A madrassa means school no more no less. schools can have a parochial education. The mere fact that said education doesn't offer BCP's to 11 year olds and sex education to fifth graders isn't something that you personally have much say in let along by way of ridicule.

I am not talking about the quality of their education. I am talking about whether or not these madrassas are equipping their students to run a nation since their students are RUNNING A COUNTRY. If you actually read what I say you'd have gotten this. Let me repeat I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH ISLAMIC EDUCATION.

works better than 750 prosthesis, pork rinds and the occasional stand comic in defense of their sovereign nation I'd say far better than your homos in the military-- in fact so tells us history about their nation.

Read my previous posts that demonstrate the Taliban are another foreign occupying force.

As a general rule, you shouldn't be the first or even the last to comment on any school of figh or Islamic jurisprudence. Wahabis aren't hanbalis anymore than they're maliki or hanfi you are ridiculous.. there is no such thing as a wahabi whether or not it belongs on this thread it just works to highlight your folly not that extraneous extras are needed to demonstrate that!

all the best

You obviously don't know anything about wahabis. Start a new thread.

 

[Lynx]

I am not the one making an accusation to have a burden of proof. What authority does the paper have outside of making you feel better? It is like Tweedledee bringing Tweedledum for backup.
as for what the madrassas teach, well frankly who cares so long as they kick some foreign ass which is exactly what they've been doing for centuries.. I mean isn't that your objection to begin with? that for all the money, equipments and homos sent you're unable to subjugate the people of Afghanistan so the best you can do is a smear campaign and an article by girl from a catholic community college? frankly you're pathetic!

DO you even read the posts you reply to or do you just read a couple of words, assume what the persons says, and then reply to that? I can't reply to you because what you're saying has absolutely nothing to do with what I have been arguing all along. I am sorry but if you want me to reply to you re-read my posts (or read them for hte first time) and then try to discuss something. You've derailed an otherwise fruitful discussion about the Taliban with your fixation on arabic terminology and now you are talking about the NATO invasion which I have not even mentioned at all. Have a nice day.