Terrorist Who ?

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HeiGou said:
What does that prove except my point? Massacre? Israel fought an open war due to (I still think mostly spurious) provocation against soldiers. They fought well and won. They killed quite a few Arab soldiers in the course of that War. How is that a massacre? How can you even begin to call it a massacre? How is it Israel's fault that their soldiers fought well and the Arabs, by and large, did not?
U failed to understand again
Staring that war a big crime.
Expanding border unlawfully was a big crime.

They killed quite a few arab???
21,000 killed,
45,000 wounded,
6,000 prisoners
over 400 aircraft destroyed
that looks few to u?
HeiGou said:
Moreover what does this have to do with peace? Israel claimed it had to fight that war because of acts of aggression. Perhaps. Perhaps not. It has nothing to do with who wants peace or not.
Really
staring war without any approved reason, killing people, expanding border unlawfully.
Does a lot of thing for those who want peace.

HeiGou said:
The bottom line for me is simple: does Islam give me the right you all demand for the Palestinians - to live my own life in my own country according to my own laws and customs? The answer, I have been told enough now to believe, is no, it does not.
That is another argument.
and What is the relation of this to finding peace?

HeiGou said:
The next question is trivial - would I prefer Israel fight Islamists in Lebanon or would I prefer to have them come to London?
That another argument.
 
1982 Sabra and Shatila Massacre
Part of Lebanese Civil War
Date: 16 September 1982
Location: Sabra and Shatila Refugee Camp


The Sabra and Shatila massacre (or Sabra and Chatila massacre) was carried out in September 1982 by Lebanese Maronite Christian militias in the Sabra and Shatila refugee camps. The Maronite forces stood under the direct command of Elie Hobeika, who would later become a longtime Lebanese parliament member and in the 1990s also a cabinet minister. The number of victims of the massacre is estimated at 700-3500

The camps were externally surrounded by Israeli soldiers throughout the incident, and the militias had been sent in by Israel to find Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) members. The Kahan Commission, an Israeli inquiry into the massacre established by the Israeli government, found that while the Phalangists alone, and no Israelis, were directly responsible for the massacre, the conduct of the political and military echelon was flawed, and named then Israeli Defense Minister (and future Prime Minister) Ariel Sharon, among several prominent Israelis, as bearing "personal responsibility" for the events.


Strength
150 irregulars

Pal:2,000(?) mostly disarmed militia, 1,500+ civilians

Casualties
2

Pal:700 - 3,500
 
U failed to understand again
Staring that war a big crime.
Expanding border unlawfully was a big crime.

Does this apply when Muslims do it? Would you like to condemn, oh I don't know, the invasion of Spain?

Israel claims that it did not start it, the Arabs did. This site,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_day_war#Main_reasons_for_the_war

contains a fairly reasonable description of why Israel felt obliged to act.

Nor has Israel expanded its borders as such. It controls, but has not annexed anything other than Jerusalem.

They killed quite a few arab???
21,000 killed,
45,000 wounded,
6,000 prisoners
over 400 aircraft destroyed
that looks few to u?

I said quite a few, that is not the same as a few. And on the whole it does not look a lot to me. There are tens of millions of Arabs in the surrounding states. War is much quicker and less brutal than it used to be.

Really staring war without any approved reason, killing people, expanding border unlawfully.
Does a lot of thing for those who want peace.

Peace can be caused by many things and one of those is a realisation that violence is not going to work. After 1967 the Arabs adopted the Three Nos policy: no to even holding talks with Israel. They thought that a violent solution was possible. This is why nuclear weapons make good peace makers - even if you win you lose and so no one thinks of fighting any more.

That is another argument.
and What is the relation of this to finding peace?

It explains why I think the way I do. As there can be no peace with people who reject peace, it is the same argument. Islam won't accept Israel. Ever. Why bother talking? Why shouldn't Israel take as much as it can and ignore justice?

That another argument.

But one close to my heart.
 
i_m_tipu

I find your points so flawed that your looking a little ridiculous.

Let's say 1000 unarmed militia come after 3 foriegn people who have grenades and masses of weapons, if the three people then use that weaponry and kill all 1000 militia, to then call it wrong for them to "slaughter" the 1000 militia is nothing short of a joke.

If Germany starting massing massive ammounts of forces on the French border I think the French would become worries, just as Israel did when the Arab countries massed forces near Israel. Incidently, the Arabs could not even be honest with each other as one country stated to the other that it had destroyed Israels air defence, this blatant LIE by 1 arab country to another lead to heavy warplane losses on Arab side...........
 
Staring that war a big crime.
Expanding border unlawfully was a big crime.

They killed quite a few arab???
21,000 killed,
45,000 wounded,
6,000 prisoners
over 400 aircraft destroyed
that looks few to u?

Really
staring war without any approved reason, killing people, expanding border unlawfully.
Does a lot of thing for those who want peace.


This is just revisionist nonsense. While the Israelis 'started' the Six Day War in the sense they attacked first (against the Arab airfields), nobody disputes that a full-scale Arab attack on Israel was about to take place - not the the Egyptians, not the Syrians, not the Jordanians, nobody. Troops were mobilized and deployed, and the Israelis took the only action possible to preserve their own existence. The Arab intention was to utterly destroy Israel - so why on earth would the Israelis be concerned about whether their occupation of Sinai, the West Bank and the Golan was "lawful" or not? Noboby else was playing by the rules.

It was a full scale war, albeit a short one, and casualties were high as a consequence. As is usually the case in war, casualties accumulate far more quickly for the side that loses the initiative. The Israelis maintained the initiative throughout, fought better, had far more gifted generals, and above all after their initial strike had total air supremacy... something that the ineptness of the Arab commanders had gifted them. The difference in casualty figures is what you would expect to see in such circumstances. Things were much more 'even' in 1973 when the Arabs tried again; on that occasion they managed to keep their attack secret.
 
salaam alaikum!

i just find it so sad that the jews havent learnt anything from world war 2!!!!!!!! but allways wants all people to think its so sad and we have to se films about their suffering every year! but what they do to others doesent matter... hhhmmmm
 
i just find it so sad that the jews havent learnt anything from world war 2!!!!!!!! but allways wants all people to think its so sad and we have to se films about their suffering every year! but what they do to others doesent matter... hhhmmmm

Really? What do you think they should have learnt from World War Two?

"Don't trust people with strange German accents and a liking for lederhosen"?

How about "people without a state are at the mercy of the strong"?

Or "trusting others leads you to the gas chamber"?

Or "don't lose"?

There are lots of things you could learn from World War Two. Luckily you don't have to see films about their suffering every year. You can turn off.
 
salaam alaikum!
heigou! what exactely did you want them to fight with????? stones????? they are not allowed to have weapons...... they are not allowed to travell.... if they speak and the jews dont like it they go to jail....... SO WHAT??????????


and i need to ask ! is this not a forum for muslims???
 
Peace HeiGou

HeiGou said:
Does this apply when Muslims do it? Would you like to condemn, oh I don't know, the invasion of Spain?

Where does u find me not condemning unlawful thing?
Don’t u think this is off topic here

HeiGou said:
Israel claims that it did not start it, the Arabs did. This site,

[Link only for registered members]

The link u give is not bad.

Lets discuss
On April 7, 1967, a minor border incident escalated into a full-scale aerial battle over the Golan Heights, resulting in the loss of six Syrian MiG-21s to Israeli Air Force (IAF) Dassault Mirage III, and the latter's flight over Damascus.
Other border incidents in which Israel and Syria exchanged artillery, tank and aircraft fire increased the tensions along this front. The Israeli government was under heavy pressure to put an end to Syrian shelling of border villages.

Israel had terrorized their Arabs border and the village near border, they destroying village near border.

And that created a heavy tension into Syria and Egypt

one example can be given

India and Pakistan

They have almost 100 to 1000 people killed in border clash in every year
They have border tension almost every year
Do those starting war every monument?

It is Israeli always thought military is better option than talking. They prove that all the time. They are harmful for the world of peace.


Currently they prove that again.
Some member of Hezbollah kidnaps 2 solider of Israel
They thought they could make their prisoner (their bro/relative) release in exchange. Some them there in prison era after era inhuman way.

But what brutal thing Israel did. They destroyed the city and blowing the family while they in house.
That is the real style of Israel.


HeiGou said:
contains a fairly reasonable description of why Israel felt obliged to act.

65% agreed
Bcoz it’s highlighting some part and ignoring some part

HeiGou said:
Nor has Israel expanded its borders as such. It controls, but has not annexed anything other than Jerusalem.

Haahaa
r ur acc hack by Jewish person. Just a joke…

They redraw the maps and u say they controlling the map…
hmmmmmm…that’s interesting

first they have 55-60% now they 75-80% of the map.
Wait Not finished Israeli not only dwelling their new formed map but also into Gaza and other Palestine territories. Part of them they withdraw recently from being continuous pressure from all over the world.

look HeiGou they controlling the whole Palestine
they controlling the thought of Palestine
they controlling the right of Palestine
they controlling the future of Palestine
they controlling the money of Palestine

they controlling the whole Palestine HeiGou


Few months ago I saw an event on BBC. Where a people from Palestine had a chance to speak
The first thing he said is”I m ………. I have no country.


Free the Palestine

HeiGou said:
I said quite a few, that is not the same as a few. And on the whole it does not look a lot to me. There are tens of millions of Arabs in the surrounding states. War is much quicker and less brutal than it used to be.

According my knowledge I have known u as a peace loving person who rejected a single dead.

How come that same person not affected and saying its not a lot of dead, more number of dead must be included in order call it lot of dead. Shocked…..
21,000 killed,
45,000 wounded,
6,000 prisoners

It does look lot to me HeiGou


HeiGou said:
Peace can be caused by many things and one of those is a realization that violence is not going to work. After 1967 the Arabs adopted the Three Nos policy: no to even holding talks with Israel. They thought that a violent solution was possible. This is why nuclear weapons make good peace makers - even if you win you lose and so no one thinks of fighting any more.

Newly declassified documents reveal that the United States of America had worked feverishly behind the scenes attempting to "hold the Israeli tiger" in the days leading up to war. The Johnson Administration received guarantees from Egypt that it would not strike first and arranged a diplomatic visit from Egyptian envoy Zakaria Mohieddin who was scheduled to depart on June 6, 1967. The diplomatic cable stated "we hope it will be possible for him to come without delay" and there were high hopes in the Johnson Administration that the visit would lead to the end of the crisis.

this is why nuclear weapons make good peace makers
totaly Agreed

so give the chance to build nuclear weapons to Palestine and other arab nation
i promise fighting will be stop at once.

HeiGou said:
It explains why I think the way I do. As there can be no peace with people who reject peace, it is the same argument. Islam won't accept Israel. Ever. Why bother talking? Why shouldn't Israel take as much as it can and ignore justice?

Remember u r talking for the invader.
The meaning of invader is attacker.
How come a attacker is peaceful pls explain.


If u see neutral newspaper/tv or other media compare to others

Most of the time u will found them destroying houses while there are woman and children living and blowing individuals while he driving in car with family without any warning.

Do u really find the Israel is talking effectively?
They are talking to their troops in order to inspire them to
kill all arab.
43.jpg


HeiGou said:
But one close to my heart.

See….
When u in a position of attacked people.
It will not be difficult for u to realize my saying


Unless u forget
The question was
Do any of those picture is lie
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hal_Turner

What about those (2006-1987) 19 yrs?
 
Peace
root said:
I find your points so flawed that your looking a little ridiculous.

Let's say 1000 unarmed militia come after 3 foriegn people who have grenades and masses of weapons, if the three people then use that weaponry and kill all 1000 militia, to then call it wrong for them to "slaughter" the 1000 militia is nothing short of a joke.

If Germany starting massing massive ammounts of forces on the French border I think the French would become worries, just as Israel did when the Arab countries massed forces near Israel. Incidently, the Arabs could not even be honest with each other as one country stated to the other that it had destroyed Israels air defence, this blatant LIE by 1 arab country to another lead to heavy warplane losses on Arab side...........

My hand now wants to take rest
Would be glad if u read the previous post

Many of arab believe USA and UK involved on that attack. Who knows?
They are the main arms dealer of Israel. Helping them surely increase their Arms business.
 
Trumble said:
This is just revisionist nonsense. While the Israelis 'started' the Six Day War in the sense they attacked first (against the Arab airfields), nobody disputes that a full-scale Arab attack on Israel was about to take place - not the the Egyptians, not the Syrians, not the Jordanians, nobody. Troops were mobilized and deployed, and the Israelis took the only action possible to preserve their own existence. The Arab intention was to utterly destroy Israel - so why on earth would the Israelis be concerned about whether their occupation of Sinai, the West Bank and the Golan was "lawful" or not? Noboby else was playing by the rules.

It was a full scale war, albeit a short one, and casualties were high as a consequence. As is usually the case in war, casualties accumulate far more quickly for the side that loses the initiative. The Israelis maintained the initiative throughout, fought better, had far more gifted generals, and above all after their initial strike had total air supremacy... something that the ineptness of the Arab commanders had gifted them. The difference in casualty figures is what you would expect to see in such circumstances. Things were much more 'even' in 1973 when the Arabs tried again; on that occasion they managed to keep their attack secret.

Revisionist nonsense
U know I have some experience about the time when people starting to talk like this.

Don’t worry I won’t bite u bcoz I m not use to and Islam not let me to do that.

Preserve their own existence
Stop saying this song again and again

Israel also use this…
Their common word preserve our own existence against Palestine.

Compare to Israel Palestine………Ans….. can’t find answer, N/A(not applicable)

The arab threaten them
In his speech to Arab trade unionists on May 26, Nasser announced: "If Israel embarks on an aggression against Syria or Egypt, the battle will be a general one... and our basic objective will be to destroy Israel.

In this speech do u find anywhere arab are going to attack Israel
Nasser only say
If Israel embarks on an aggression against Syria or Egypt

Newly declassified documents reveal that the United States of America had worked feverishly behind the scenes attempting to "hold the Israeli tiger" in the days leading up to war. The Johnson Administration received guarantees from Egypt that it would not strike first and arranged a diplomatic visit from Egyptian envoy Zakaria Mohieddin who was scheduled to depart on June 6, 1967. The diplomatic cable stated "we hope it will be possible for him to come without delay" and there were high hopes in the Johnson Administration that the visit would lead to the end of the crisis.

hope it is enough
 
salaam alaikum!

heigou! i know know that you are a jew!!!!!!!! and all you do in this forum is to make problems and start a war in here! if you feel so strongly about what happends... then you are in the wrong war!....... the jews had a very touhg time during ww2 and i really do feel sad for them ....BUT read your torah!........... its saying that you dont have a land!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! did you forget this??????????????? because the jewish people from the beginning of time DIDNtt listenn to GOD! your are cursed and you all know it! thats why you do all the terrible things you do...... go and fight... that would be better for you and your soul
 
Preserve their own existence
Stop saying this song again and again

Why? It happens to be true.

In this speech do u find anywhere arab are going to attack Israel
Nasser only say
If Israel embarks on an aggression against Syria or Egypt

Quite right. Nasser didn't include in that particular speech an advance announcement of an attack intended to destroy the State of Israel. Do you think that would have been smart?! Well, we don't know if Nasser did or not. From the same article (which I notice you didn't source), another quote from Nasser;

"The armies of Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Lebanon are poised on the borders of Israel ... to face the challenge, while standing behind us are the armies of Iraq, Algeria, Kuwait, Sudan and the whole Arab nation. This act will astound the world. Today they will know that the Arabs are arranged for battle, the critical hour has arrived. We have reached the stage of serious action and not of more declarations."
Oh dear.

guarantees

Ah, "guarantees". That's all right then; via the Americans the Israelis could have complete confidence in those.

You might as well LINK to the whole of that article. You don't mention such things as;

On May 18, 1967, Egypt formally requested the withdrawal of UNEF from Sinai. UN Secretary-General U Thant complied, thus removing the international buffer which had existed along the Egyptian-Israeli border since 1957. Egyptian president Gamal Abdel Nasser then began the re-militarization of the Sinai, and concentrated tanks and troops on the border with Israel.

and

On May 22, Egypt announced that the Straits of Tiran would be closed to "all ships flying Israel flags or carrying strategic materials", with effect from May 23

and

he continued to take actions intended to increase the level of mobilization of Egypt, Syria and Jordan in order to bring unbearable pressure on Israel.


With ever increasing Arab mobilization, waiting was a luxury the Israelis could no longer afford. If they had, their defeat would have been inevitable once that mobilization was complete and those "guarantees" could conveniently be ignored by those who had given them.
 
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look at this heigou!!!!!
The Shame of Being an American
By Paul Craig Roberts

Gentle reader, do you know that Israel is engaged in ethnic cleansing in southern Lebanon? Israel has ordered all the villagers to clear out. Israel then destroys their homes and murders the fleeing villagers. That way there is no one to come back and nothing to which to return, making it easier for Israel to grab the territory, just as Israel has been stealing Palestine from the Palestinians.

Do you know that one-third of the Lebanese civilians murdered by Israel’s attacks on civilian residential districts are children? That is the report from Jan Egeland, the emergency relief coordinator for the UN. He says it is impossible for help to reach the wounded and those buried in rubble, because Israeli air strikes have blown up all the bridges and roads. Considering how often (almost always) Israel misses Hizbollah targets and hits civilian ones, one might think that Israeli fire is being guided by US satellites and US military GPS. Don’t be surprised at US complicity. Why would the puppet be any less evil than the puppet master?
Of course, you don’t know these things, because the US print and TV media do not report them.

Because Bush is so proud of himself, you do know that he has blocked every effort to stop the Israeli slaughter of Lebanese civilians. Bush has told the UN "NO." Bush has told the European Community "NO." Bush has told the pro-American Lebanese prime minister "NO." Twice. Bush is very proud of his firmness. He is enjoying Israel’s rampage and wishes he could do the same thing in Iraq.

Does it make you a Proud American that "your" president gave Israel the green light to drop bombs on convoys of villagers fleeing from Israeli shelling, on residential neighborhoods in the capital of Beirut and throughout Lebanon, on hospitals, on power plants, on food production and storage, on ports, on civilian airports, on bridges, on roads, on every piece of infrastructure on which civilized life depends?

Are you a Proud American? Or are you an Israeli puppet?
On July 20, "your" House of Representatives voted 410-8 in favor of Israel’s massive war crimes in Lebanon. Not content with making every American complicit in war crimes, "your" House of Representatives, according to the Associated Press, also "condemns enemies of the Jewish state."

Who are the "enemies of the Jewish state"?
They are the Palestinians whose land has been stolen by the Jewish state, whose homes and olive groves have been destroyed by the Jewish state, whose children have been shot down in the streets by the Jewish state, whose women have been abused by the Jewish state. They are Palestinians who have been walled off into ghettos, who cannot reach their farm lands or medical care or schools, who cannot drive on roads through Palestine that have been constructed for Israelis only. They are Palestinians whose ancient towns have been invaded by militant Zionist "settlers" under the protection of the Israeli army who beat and persecute the Palestinians and drive them out of their towns. They are Palestinians who cannot allow their children outside their homes because they will be murdered by Israeli "settlers."

The Palestinians who confront Israeli evil are called "terrorists." When Bush forced free elections on Palestine, the people voted for Hamas. Hamas is the organization that has stood up to the Jewish state. This means, of course, that Hamas is evil, anti-Semitic, un-American and terrorist. The US and Israel responded by cutting off all funds to the new government. Democracy is permitted only if it produces the results Bush and Israel want.
Israelis never practice terror. Only those who are in Israel’s way are terrorists.

Another enemy of the Jewish state is Hizbollah. Hizbollah is a militia of Shia Muslims created in 1982 when Israel first invaded Lebanon. During this invasion the great moral Jewish state arranged for the murder of refugees in refugee camps. The result of Israel’s atrocities was Hizbollah, which fought the Israeli army, defeated it, and drove it, with its Satanic tail between its legs, out of Lebanon. Today Hizbollah not only defends southern Lebanon but also provides social services such as orphanages and medical care.

To cut to the chase, the enemies of the Jewish state are any Muslim country not ruled by an American puppet friendly to Israel. Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the oil emirates have sided with Israel against their own kind, because they are dependent either on American money or on American protection from their own people. Sooner or later these totally corrupt governments that do not represent the people they rule will be overthrown. It is only a matter of time.

Indeed Bush and Israel may be hastening the process in their frantic effort to overthrow the governments of Syria and Iran. Both governments have more popular support than Bush has, but the White House Moron doesn’t know this. The Moron thinks Syria and Iran will be "cakewalks" like Iraq, where ten proud divisions of the US military are tied down by a few lightly armed insurgents.

If you are still a Proud American, consider that your pride is doing nothing good for Israel or for America.
On July 20 when "your" House of Representatives, following "your" US Senate, passed the resolution in support of Israel’s war crimes, the most powerful lobby in Washington, the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), quickly got out a press release proclaiming "The American people overwhelming support Israel’s war on terrorism and understand that we must stand by our closest ally in this time of crisis."
The truth is that Israel created the crisis by invading a country with a pro-American government. The truth is that the American people do not support Israel’s war crimes, as the CNN quick poll results make clear and as was made clear by callers into C-Span.
Despite the Israeli spin on news provided by US "reporting," a majority of Americans do not approve of Israeli atrocities against Lebanese civilians. Hizbollah is located in southern Lebanon. If Israel is targeting Hizbollah, why are Israeli bombs falling on northern Lebanon? Why are they falling on Beirut? Why are they falling on civilian airports? On schools and hospitals?

Now we arrive at the main point. When the US Senate and House of Representatives pass resolutions in support of Israeli war crimes and condemn those who resist Israeli aggression, the Senate and House confirm Osama bin Laden’s propaganda that America stands with Israel against the Arab and Muslim world.

Indeed, Israel, which has one of the world’s largest per capita incomes, is the largest recipient of US foreign aid. Many believe that much of this "aid" comes back to AIPAC, which uses it to elect "our" representatives in Congress.

This perception is no favor to Israel, whose population is declining, as the smart ones have seen the writing on the wall and have been leaving. Israel is surrounded by hundreds of millions of Muslims who are being turned into enemies of Israel by Israel’s actions and inhumane policies.

The hope in the Muslim world has always been that the United States would intervene in behalf of compromise and make Israel realize that Israel cannot steal Palestine and turn every Palestinian into a refugee.

This has been the hope of the Arab world. This is the reason our puppets have not been overthrown. This hope is the reason America still had some prestige in the Arab world.
The House of Representatives resolution, bought and paid for by AIPAC money, is the final nail in the coffin of American prestige in the Middle East. It shows that America is, indeed, Israel’s puppet, just as Osama bin Laden says, and as a majority of Muslims believe.
With hope and diplomacy dead, henceforth America and Israel have only tooth and claw. The vaunted Israeli army could not defeat a rag tag militia in southern Lebanon. The vaunted US military cannot defeat a rag tag, lightly armed, insurgency drawn from a minority of the population in Iraq, insurgents, moreover, who are mainly engaged in civil war against the Shia majority.

What will the US and its puppet master do? Both are too full of hubris and paranoia to admit their terrible mistakes. Israel and the US will either destroy from the air the civilian infrastructure of Lebanon, Palestine, Syria, and Iran so that civilized life becomes impossible for Muslims, or the US and Israel will use nuclear weapons to intimidate Muslims into acquiescence to Israel’s desires.

Muslim genocide in one form or another is the professed goal of the neoconservatives who have total control over the Bush administration. Neocon godfather Norman Podhoretz has called for World War IV (in neocon thinking WW III was the cold war) to overthrow Islam in the Middle East, deracinate the Islamic religion and turn it into a formalized, secular ritual.
Rumsfeld’s neocon Pentagon has drafted new US war doctrine that permits pre-emptive nuclear attack on non-nuclear states.

Neocon David Horowitz says that by slaughtering Palestinian and Lebanese civilians, "Israel is doing the work of the rest of the civilized world," thus equating war criminals with civilized men.

Neocon Larry Kudlow says that "Israel is doing the Lord’s work" by murdering Lebanese, a claim that should give pause to Israel’s Christian evangelical supporters. Where does the Lord Jesus say, "go forth and murder your neighbors so that you may steal their lands"?

are these your heroes?????????????????
 
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Hei Gou, thanks for the link on the Six Day war, I found it very informative.

I also read the further link from that page to the article about the Yom Kipper war.

It too was a very good read.

Thanks
Nimrod
 
There seems to be some assumptions being made, that I just don’t understand.

Since when did it become a requirement for the victor of a war to return lands that have been captured?

I am very lacking in my studies of history, but wouldn’t it be a correct statement to say that for most of man-kind’s history, the normal result of war was that the “spoils of war go to the victor” and that often included keeping the land?

I am also very confused as to where the concept of a tit-for-tat battle became the accepted means of fighting a war.

Isn’t the idea of meeting an opposing force with an over-welling response the accepted normal way of fighting and winning a war?

I find it highly doubtful that any other country would listen to any calls for a very limited response to the same sort of shelling and incursions and murder and kidnapping of its soldiers as Israel has endured.

If Israel was geographically located differently, I am certain you would see a totally different response, the same sort of response Iran and Iraq used in dealing with each other.

Hezbollah has declared war on Israel (I would dare say they have never, not been at war with Israel).

I don’t know if there is a workable long-term solution to bring peace to the Middle East, but I do know that one of the surest ways to have the problems drag on till all the grand children are old, is to have a tit-for-tat limited response to acts of aggression.

Israel is not going to willing give up and cease to be a nation.
The Western world is not going to stand by and allow the Middle Eastern nations to band together and destroy Israel.

That is the way it is. Sooner or later that will have to be understood by everybody and folks will finally quit dying while trying to change that.

Thanks
Nimrod
 
and what about what israel have done?????????????????????? its always poor poor israel!!!!!!!!! they kill and starve people like they want... and its okay??????? actually what you are saying is all others than the jews and cristians are animals.......! i say it again....... i thought this forum was for muslims?
 
Nennar, I thought the forum was for any interested party willing to politely a pov.

Thanks
Nimrod
 
i also want from the bottum of my heart... this forum to be for all! but someone only come into this forum , to make war not to disscuss ..... and i really dont understand what these types wants! we are seeing our sisters and brothers beeing killed... and for what?????? for the state of israel???? who do what ever they want eveyday...... they dont care about anyone other than them selves...... they are heartless uncaring humanbeeings...... i know that not all israeis are like that... but
 

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