Test of Faith for Athiests

[i_m_tipu]

my net connection is unstable (sorry)

but i m tring.....

 

[KAding]

Haaaa..

U do not understand the question
i do not try to say what is correct and what is not correct

i just want to tell u people did think there is a God who have greater power to save them from the beginning of the civilization.

pls read the post again

Yes, and I don't see how that would make any difference. People have thought many things throughout history.

I disagree with them on many things, including their belief in God.

 

[i_m_tipu]

hello HeiGou

That statement seems odd to me. Apart from the Quran and a Hadith, what is the evidence of monotheism, i.e. a belief in a God, before Judaism, or before Christianity?

The holy Quran is a book of knowledge (it contain all basic thing of life system)
And also said so many thing what is unproven at 1400 yrs ago but proven universal truth now (i.e. moon has not its own light…..so many thing)

Look HeiGou there is so many thing in the world u may not prove but realize and feel

The concrete evidence u asking for its may not exited today but do feel it and it also describe in Holy books (Quran and others).

You find many examples of societies where people believed in many many Gods, but few where they believed in one. Do you think this proves anything? If not, why do you make your argument?

U may not clear what I try to prove

I try to prove people believe in God and also educated about the law of God since the beginning of time. (How And Why)

But you are using a generic "God". Can we agree that many people have believed in many different Gods since the beginning of time? And that there is little evidence for Islam before Muhammed apart from the Quran and aHadith?

A part agreed…

Many People/culture gone away from the teaching of the prophets and create some thing from their knowledge in many period of time.

I may not have concrete evidence but u know it is correct.

The basic of All prophet is same……There is one God……
Then people change the law of God
Than God send the Prophet again

The sending of prophet is end
When the law of God is final
When the law of God is protected​

​

Can we agree that many people have believed in many different Gods since the beginning of time?

now ask urself why and how do they educated about the God and his Laws​

​

 

[HeiGou]

hello HeiGou

Hello. I hope you got your connection fixed.

The holy Quran is a book of knowledge (it contain all basic thing of life system)
And also said so many thing what is unproven at 1400 yrs ago but proven universal truth now (i.e. moon has not its own light…..so many thing)

Well I disagree that it contains a thing that people did not know before. I find that Moon light one particularly unconvincing. But that is another argument.

Look HeiGou there is so many thing in the world u may not prove but realize and feel

Yes and no doubt I will never live to understand everything that is known much less everything that is unknown. But I live in hope that scientists will one day discover more and humanity will become more informed about the Universe. I do not think that giving up and leaving it to God is a solution for anyone's problems.

The concrete evidence u asking for its may not exited today but do feel it and it also describe in Holy books (Quran and others).

But those Books, whatever their pre-existence, have only been known to humans for a very short time - about 2000 years for the Bible, and about 1400 years for the Quran. In fact the evidence looks very much as if those books did not exist before then and neither did monotheism (with some lee way for Judaism). Humanity look to me to be basically polytheistic and very unhappy if you try to make them stop.

I try to prove people believe in God and also educated about the law of God since the beginning of time. (How And Why)

I understand what you are trying to prove, I just don't think you have any evidence for that claim. Apart from the Muslim scriptures. Humanity has existed for a long time without any sign of Revelation of the sort you mean. Why did all the evidence disappear if, as you say, they all received the same message?

Many People/culture gone away from the teaching of the prophets and create some thing from their knowledge in many period of time.

I may not have concrete evidence but u know it is correct.

What is with some Muslims and this disrespect for other people? I do not know it is correct. All the evidence I know of suggests that it is not. Why would you think otherwise? What is the evidence that they have fallen from the ways of their ancestors?

The basic of All prophet is same……There is one God……
Then people change the law of God
Than God send the Prophet again

The sending of prophet is end
When the law of God is final
When the law of God is protected​

​

Which is a claim Muslim often make, but apart from the Quran and the aHadith, what is the evidence for it? Anyone ever discovered a ruined mosque? Have archaeologists ever dug up an ancient mosque oriented towards Mecca?

now ask urself why and how do they educated about the God and his Laws​

​

If I saw any evidence of anyone being educated about God and His laws before about 1400 years ago I would.

 

[yasin]

How does that prove the false beliefs of atheists? Surely it proves they are true to their beliefs - if there is no God why not? Let me ask that the other way around - if someone put a shotgun to your head no doubt you would die happily. Do you really think that is proof of Islam? After all Buddhists are known to die for their Faith. So are Christians. So are Jews. Some of the Jewish men of Medina were lined up along a trench and beheaded. One converted and so was spared. The others preferred to die than become Muslims - does that prove that Judaism is true? No Faith is unable to produce people willing to die for it. They can't all be true. Therefore merely dying for any religion cannot be a proof of much.

erm i repeat, it does not prove the existance of God, just the lack of strong belief that there is not a God!

 

[i_m_tipu]

Yes, and I don't see how that would make any difference. People have thought many things throughout history.

I disagree with them on many things, including their belief in God.

hello KAding

it does not matter anything what u agree and what not but I hope u will talk with logic

people of the previous time sacrifice and build the base of the current civilization.
Don’t say so easy word to them

people used to praying god in every period of time does prove it’s a undeniable thing of a human life system.

Do u find in true religion (unedited) that implement evil thing.
Every nonreligious system of the current world takes concept from religion (why).
Religion supposes to be evil thing in ur sense.

But if u read the history carefully u will always find religion always fight for the good thing and against the evil thing.

i aspect form every one to support good thing

 

[i_m_tipu]

Hello. I hope you got your connection fixed.

Well HeiGou I m frustrated about this connection
I m paying Tk 16000 per month for (8K down and 3K up) even thou most of the time the net connection is unstable last few weeks.

Well I disagree that it contains a thing that people did not know before..

I strongly disagree..
what make u believe that “it(The Holy Quran) contains a thing that people did not know before” I m very curious to see ur point.
That is big claim…

one example from many

"And Your lord inspired the bee, to build your dwellings in hills, on trees, and in (human’s) habitations. Then, to eat of all the produce and follow the ways of your Lord made easy. There comes forth from their bodies a drink of varying color, wherein is healing for men: Verily, in this is a sign for those who give thought."(The Quran, 16:68-69)

FEMALE BEES PRODUCE HONEY
"The imperative "build" above is the translation of the Arabic word attakhithi", which is the feminine form (Arabic grammar unlike English, differentiates between the sexes). The feminine form is used when all of those it refers to are female, whereas the masculine is used when a group consists of at least 1 male.

Therefore the Quran is in fact saying "build, you female bees.."

A swarm of bees, which collect honey and build the hive, are female only.

Thus, the phrasing of this command is in agreement with the scientific fact that male bees do not partake in the construction of the hive.

Microscopes were not invented until 1610, when Galileo invented one of the first microscopes almost a thousand years after Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). It is only Allah, the Creator of all things, who revealed such details over 1,423 years ago. This one word of the Quran is sufficient to prove that Quran is from non other than Allah!
​

I find that Moon light one particularly unconvincing. But that is another argument

Interesting...

Yes and no doubt I will never live to understand everything that is known much less everything that is unknown. But I live in hope that scientists will one day discover more and humanity will become more informed about the Universe. I do not think that giving up and leaving it to God is a solution for anyone's problems.

Believe in God does never mean giving up inventing and discovering.

But those Books, whatever their pre-existence, have only been known to humans for a very short time - about 2000 years for the Bible, and about 1400 years for the Quran. In fact the evidence looks very much as if those books did not exist before then and neither did monotheism (with some lee way for Judaism). Humanity look to me to be basically polytheistic and very unhappy if you try to make them stop.

What evidence r u talking about?

I understand what you are trying to prove, I just don't think you have any evidence for that claim. Apart from the Muslim scriptures. Humanity has existed for a long time without any sign of Revelation of the sort you mean. Why did all the evidence disappear if, as you say, they all received the same message?

How can u expect concrete evidence that was the time when people don’t have almost anything to store data.
But religious Holy books (unedited) contains their data

I believe all received the same basic message and what make u not believe that.

What is with some Muslims and this disrespect for other people? I do not know it is correct. All the evidence I know of suggests that it is not. Why would you think otherwise? What is the evidence that they have fallen from the ways of their ancestors?

True is a true and lie is a lie
It does not matter who get respect and who does not

Take the picture of the current world. I can give thousands of examples that people are telling lie about the religious teaching also changing the law of God everyday by almost every type of person. Does not it good enough evidence.

Also Holy Book of God supports my claim.

Anyone ever discovered a ruined mosque? Have archaeologists ever dug up an ancient mosque oriented towards Mecca?

interesting comment
Mosque is a type of building where people can pray. We call it Mosque and others call it in different name. And it requires knowledge to build it.

If a period of time does not have that knowledge how they can build such thing.

Also what is a relation between a mosque and revelation?​

If I saw any evidence of anyone being educated about God and His laws before about 1400 years ago I would.

I m confused r u not the same person who agreed people believe in God since the beginning of time.

There are signs that people praying to God in every civilization is a huge evidence that
Beleive in God is undeniable thing​

​

 

[root]

There are signs that people praying to God in every civilization is a huge evidence that

I agree with you in that within every civilization we find evidence of faith and preyer. But yet we dont find any civilizations prior to the great leap which is only 40,000 years ago. From 40,000 years ago until the birth of Christ which supposadly happened a mere 2,000 years ago and I beleive Islam is even more recent that that.

However, mankind has been in existence far greater than any of those dates. Why do you suppose religion formed at the same time as mass civilisations are born and why did all the indapendent civilisations have their own beliefs and why have the most recent civilisations (post rome) and very recently also have a flavour of their own religion.

Beleive in God is undeniable thing

Beleif in God is just faith.

 

[Joe98]

Can I have a question for the Atheists here!!!

Blah blah blah....

The ancient Greeks, the Romans and the Egyptians, basically the civilisations that started the civilisation we know today, believed in many gods.

Lots of them.

Today we know better than that.

You believe there is one god.

We know better than that.

One day you will understand too. :happy:

-

 

[Idris]

Manind's natural instinct might be to believe in the Supernatural, but I do not believe that it is to believe in God. People, if left alone, show no signs of believing in one God whatsoever. They need to be taught.

Supernatural means


• Something that cannot be explained by the laws of nature; for example, gods and ghosts.
• The term supernatural comes from the terms “super” meaning above the average, and the term “natural” meaning the norm. Basically it is anything that seems to go beyond any natural force or defies a logical explanation.
• Something that exists of occurs through some means other than any know force in nature or science.


I think these sounds like God to me, and you should see what the Australian Aboriginal People the African Zulus and Native American Indian believed in before the white man came you will see that it was God.

 

[i_m_tipu]

I agree with you in that within every civilization we find evidence of faith and prayer.

Agreed

But yet we don’t find any civilizations prior to the great leap which is only 40,000 years ago.

Really....so what do u find and what not about the time of 40,000 years ago.
I am waiting for reliable thing really.

Comment: The Holy Qur’an contains lot of historical think which people knew not. Now know after the research from the concept of Qur’an.

From 40,000 years ago until the birth of Christ which supposedly happened a mere 2,000 years ago and I believe Islam is even more recent that that.

Rebirth of religion is happened time after time after time (when God will).
So u can call the Islam is the last recent rebirth of true religion which come to restore God’s Law.
The Law of God is not recent.

However, mankind has been in existence far greater than any of those dates.

So…what’s ur point

Why do you suppose religion formed at the same time as mass civilizations are born and why did all the independent civilizations have their own beliefs and why have the most recent civilizations (post Rome) and very recently also have a flavor of their own religion.

That is another argument

thou
It does not matter who believe in what.
if u have intelligences u will find who is up to what

I never disagree that people believe in lot of Gods
And always saying people changing the teaching of prophets. (it’s a nature of some fake human leader)……do you deny this?

Belief in God is just faith.

I agreed

Belief in God is just undeniable faith.

 

[i_m_tipu]

The ancient Greeks, the Romans and the Egyptians, basically the civilizations that started the civilization we know today, believed in many gods.

Those may not guided by the prophet or change or destroyed (they don’t have good storage system …do they) or misunderstanding…….whatever.
But after all they believe in God…does not it prove they can’t deny the belief of God’s existence.
A Question to u: what does u believe?

Today we know better than that.

You believe there is one god.

We know better than that.

Good to hear you know better than……….:rollseyes

One day you will understand too. :happy: .

What u wants me to understand?

Pls take this following loud voice in ur ears
+ We take breath what is coming from nature.
+ We take food what is coming from nature.
+ We take medicine what is coming from nature.
+ We build house what is coming from nature.
+ We build dress what is coming from nature.
+ We build arms what is coming from nature.
+ Every each second of life run by the nature.

+++U also belongs to nature.+++

What u r doing without nature.

Does not it prove nature build in order to make us run? Who did this?
Whose favor makes us alive?

U can be artificial I can not………
Have u see up to the blue sky
How could any says it is not controlled by anyone……..