The Belief of People

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I dont see it that way.
You see it as a circular argument and I dont.
I suppose the main difference is that I have faith (as a Muslim) and you dont.
No offence intended.
By faith I mean in God. I hope you understand the fact that because we are Muslims we believe all the things that have been mentioned simply because of our faith. We dont query it and we never doubt it. We just believe it.
Peace to you too bro.

I question everything. That's the only way to learn!

Peace

 

[Snowflake]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duhaa
I dont see it that way.
You see it as a circular argument and I dont.
I suppose the main difference is that I have faith (as a Muslim) and you dont.
No offence intended.
By faith I mean in God. I hope you understand the fact that because we are Muslims we believe all the things that have been mentioned simply because of our faith. We dont query it and we never doubt it. We just believe it.
Peace to you too bro.

Right! Even if we queried it, there is substantial evidence in the Quran to answer all our questions. Imagine it's not only muslims, but non-muslim professors, scientists and scholars from all around the world who agree that all the facts in the Quran could not have come from anywhere but God Himself.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Right! Even if we queried it, there is substantial evidence in the Quran to answer all our questions. Imagine it's not only muslims, but non-muslim professors, scientists and scholars from all around the world who agree that all the facts in the Quran could not have come from anywhere but God Himself.

So does that mean that all of those non-Muslim professors etc. have now converted to Islam?

Peace

 

[Snowflake]

Greetings,


So does that mean that all of those non-Muslim professors etc. have now converted to Islam?

Peace

Lol, no! Not all of them. Yet all agree that the Quran is indeed a divine revelation from God.

Things that I didn't know the Quran contained, I found in this link below. Totally awesome!
http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/redir?ur...ype=MS&partner=google&query=the amazing quran

http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/redir?ur...ype=MS&partner=google&query=the amazing quran

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Lol, no! Not all of them. Yet all agree that the Quran is indeed a divine revelation from God.

Hang on a minute. If they believe it comes from god, why would they not then convert? If they believe in god in the first place, and they now believe they've read a direct revelation from god, surely they would follow god's orders and become Muslim?

Peace

 

[abdul Majid]

Greetings,


Hang on a minute. If they believe it comes from god, why would they not then convert? If they believe in god in the first place, and they now believe they've read a direct revelation from god, surely they would follow god's orders and become Muslim?

Peace

hi cz

well you if it was that easy everybody would go to heaven, but the somethnig called the devil..lol..

there will always be people who believe and do good, and there will always be people who disbelieve and do wrong....until the last day..

MAY ALLAH(SWT) SAVE US ALL INSHALLAH...AMEM

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

well you if it was that easy everybody would go to heaven, but the somethnig called the devil..lol..

there will always be people who believe and do good, and there will always be people who disbelieve and do wrong....until the last day..

OK, fine - but my point is that these guys (whoever they are) have announced that they believe the Qur'an to be the word of god. If that is what they do believe, then it's crazy for them not to become Muslim, surely?

Peace

 

[The Ruler]

Greetings,


OK, fine - but my point is that these guys (whoever they are) have announced that they believe the Qur'an to be the word of god. If that is what they do believe, then it's crazy for them not to become Muslim, surely?

Peace

ok i dunno who u r talking bout ere...but i once heard dat some ppl be liv dat Qur'an is da word of Alah but yet do not accept islam bcuz dey think it is hard to practice....dey accept wen dey v grown old bcuz den it is said dat ppl r forgiven for their sins wen dey reach da age of 70....i not sure if it meant all da sins but still.... dis particular saying makes some ppl accep islam wendey grow old although dey knew Qur'an is the word of Allah during their youth.

 

[Snowflake]

Yup! I backup sis Tagrid on that. To accept Islam, as a way of life, isn't the same as believing there is a God. Isn't that what we're trying to prove here?

Greetings,
Hang on a minute. If they believe it comes from god, why would they not then convert? If they believe in god in the first place, and they now believe they've read a direct revelation from god, surely they would follow god's orders and become Muslim?
Peace

It would seem a sensible thing to do, but believing in God does not mean one wants to live by God's laws. That is a personal choice.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Yup! I backup sis Tagrid on that. To accept Islam, as a way of life, isn't the same as believing there is a God. Isn't that what we're trying to prove here?

Close. Not only do these scientists believe in god, but apparently they believe the Qur'an is a direct message from him. My question is why they then haven't gone on to accept Islam. Surely that is the only logical course of action?

Now, I know that you don't have to answer for them - they need to explain it themselves - but the fact that they haven't converted to Islam must put some doubt into your mind over how sincere they were when they made the pronouncement that they believed the Qur'an to be the word of god. Is it possible they had a hidden motive for doing so? Or that they were misquoted?

Peace

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Hi Callum,
I don't know if you ever saw my post in this thread:
http://www.islamicboard.com/181196-post29.html

It was related to this issue.
Regards

 

[Snowflake]

Greetings,


Close. Not only do these scientists believe in god, but apparently they believe the Qur'an is a direct message from him. My question is why they then haven't gone on to accept Islam. Surely that is the only logical course of action?

Now, I know that you don't have to answer for them - they need to explain it themselves - but the fact that they haven't converted to Islam must put some doubt into your mind over how sincere they were when they made the pronouncement that they believed the Qur'an to be the word of god. Is it possible they had a hidden motive for doing so? Or that they were misquoted?

Peace

You're right I can't answer for them.
I was going to quote references in my previous post of scientists, doctors, ministers, preachers, missionaries & other professionals who have converted after studying the Quran, but I didn't think it was necessary. If you like I can find them for you.

 

[Mohsin]

Greetings,


Close. Not only do these scientists believe in god, but apparently they believe the Qur'an is a direct message from him. My question is why they then haven't gone on to accept Islam. Surely that is the only logical course of action?

Now, I know that you don't have to answer for them - they need to explain it themselves - but the fact that they haven't converted to Islam must put some doubt into your mind over how sincere they were when they made the pronouncement that they believed the Qur'an to be the word of god. Is it possible they had a hidden motive for doing so? Or that they were misquoted?

Peace

Hi, well there are several that have converted that we know for sure like Dr Murraice Bucaile, Professor Tejatat Tejasen (http://www.islam-guide.com/frm-search.htm) see scientific comments.
Also these aren't misquotes, if you go to the above link thy have links to videos of them saying this

 

[Snowflake]

Thank you br Moss for that link. Wow I didn't know prof. Bucaile, had reverted too. SubhanAllah!

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I always thought Maurice Bucaille had become a Muslim but I never got the confirmation. I would be interested to know.

I would be interested to know this too. As far as I know he's remained a Catholic...

Peace

 

[M H Kahn]

Who Muslims Are:

All the people from the first human, Adam (pbuh), to those who will survive up to the Day of Destruction may be classed into (1) believers, (2) disbelievers and (3) misbelievers, of whom your husband was one. The believers were always in the past, they are now in the present and they will be in the future, known as Muslims, meaning submitters to God. ‘Islam’ and ‘Muslim’ are Arabic words for ‘submission’ and ‘submitter’ to God. The present day Muslims, who are guided by the Quran revealed to the final prophet, Muhammed (pbuh), have to believe invariably that all the previous messengers of God from Noah (pbuh) to Jesus (pbuh) also came with the same message that Muhammed (pbuh) was sent with. They all came with the message to ask the strayed humans of their times and climes to believe in God, Who had existed before there was any creation and will exist when the entire creation will be destroyed at His command. He is One and Only having neither any parent nor any children. He has no equal and He alone should be worshipped by the mankind. This is, in short, the message of Islam (meaning submission to the will of God) that all the messengers of God came with. Those who accepted the message without any concoction are believers, or for that matter, Muslims. Therefore, all the messengers of God from Noah (pbuh) to Muhammed (pbuh) are equally loved and respected by the submitters, meaning the Muslims.

The verses of the holy Quran were learnt by heart by Muhammed (pbuh) and his followers as soon as the same were revealed. The verses were at the same time preserved in writing, though not in the form of a complete book as it is available today. But the revelations were to be complied with at once as they were revealed. So it is very evident that when Muhammed (pbuh) addressed Jews, Christians as well as others, he called them all to follow the verses of the Quran that had already been revealed to him. The earlier prophets and the divine books revealed to them, which are not available now in unchanged form, were also sent with the same message of faith, as enunciated in the holy Quran, that God (Who in Arabic language is called Allah) is the sole Creator and Sustainer of everything in the universe and none but He should be worshipped and no partner should be associated with Him in the worship. But with lapse of time and for other reasons, many people moved away from the straight path of submission to God, Who Himself has, with regard to this, said in the Quran:

“He has ordained for you the same Deen (way of life - Islam) which He enjoined on Nüh - and which We have revealed to you O Muhammad - and which We enjoined on Abraham and Musa (Moses) and Isa (Jesus): ‘Establish the Deen of Al-Islam and make no division (sects) in it.’ Intolerable for the mushriks is that to which you O Muhammad call them. Allah chooses for His service whom He wills, and guides to His Way only those who turn to Him in repentance.”[42:13]

“Mankind was one nation having one religion. Later when people invented other religions, Allah appointed Prophets as bearers of good news and warnings; and revealed to them the Book with the True Guidance to settle the matters of dispute between mankind. But the very people to whom it was given started disputes after the clear arguments had come to them, because of rivalry between one another. Allah has guided the believers by His will to the truth in those matters in which they had differences. Allah guides whom He pleases towards the Right Way.” [2:213]

“If only the previous generations had some intelligent people who enjoined them from corruption, they would have been saved. But We saved a few of them, while the rest pursued their material things and became sinners. Your Lord never destroys any community unjustly while the people are righteous.” (11:116-117)

"We gave Moses the scripture, and subsequent to him we sent other messengers, and we gave Jesus, son of Mary, profound miracles and supported him with the Holy Spirit. Is it not a fact that everytime a messenger went to you with anything you disliked, your ego caused you to be arrogant? Some of them you rejected, and some of them you killed." 2"87

Though the basic teachings of all the prophets with regard to God and His worship was always the same, yet it is evident from the Quran that the nature and scope of formal worships, such as prayers, fasting, pilgrimage etc., sometimes changed with advent of new prophets, and it was always incumbent upon the mankind of any time to believe in all prophets, not to differentiate among them with respect to their status with Allah, and to abide by the divine code of conduct encoded in the latest book of divine law brought to them by the latest prophet. As the Quran is the latest divine book of law revealed to Muhammed (pbuh), the last of the prophets, after whom no further prophet will be sent by Allah, it is obligatory for all the humans on the earth, living from the time of Muhammed (pbuh) till the day of destruction, to live up to the law encoded in the Quran and guidelines given by Muhammed (pbuh). Even a human, claiming to be living according to the Quran and the guidelines of Allah’s messenger Mohammed (pbuh), cannot be a true submitter if he has any doubt or disrespect about earlier prophets and the divine books revealed to them. Similarly a human living on the earth from the time of Muhammed (pbuh) cannot be a true submitter or Muslim until he has believed in the Quran and the prophet Muhammed (pbuh) and lived his life according to the rulings of the Quran and traditions of Mohammed (pbuh). Actually humans are travelers in this life and the 'Home' is in the next life for eternity. We are here for a sojourn only and we cannot take anything with us from this life except our belief in God and our deeds. Thus, we should be living on the earth like travelers passing through a land without any attachment to it. As travelers on this journey, we must understand that the meaning of being alive in this world is to be tested and judged accordingly in the hereafter. Hence, there is suffering, joy, pain and elation; as Allah says:

“We shall surely test your steadfastness with fear and famine, with loss of property, life and produce. Give good news to those who endure with patience; who, when afflicted with calamity, say: ‘We belong to Allah and to Him we shall return.’ Such are the people on whom there are blessings and Mercy from Allah; and they are the ones that are rightly guided.” [2:155-157].

These tests of good and evil are intended to evoke our higher spiritual qualities. Yet, we are incapable of benefiting from these tests unless we do our best, have complete trust in God and patiently accept what He has destined for us. One basic object of Islam is the liberation of man from slavery of any other than God. This is why a submitter or a Muslim calls himself 'Abdullah', meaning the slave or servant of God because enslavement to God liberates him from all other forms of servitude. Although modern man may think that he is liberated, he is in fact a slave to his desires and is generally deceived by this worldly life. He is 'addicted' to wealth, sex, violence, intoxicants, etc. But above all, he is often seduced by the social system that tends to work through the invention of false needs, which he feels must be satisfied instantly. God says in the Qur'an:

“Thou wilt indeed find them, of all people, most greedy of life, even more than the idolaters: Each one of them wishes He could be given a life of a thousand years: But the grant of such life will not save him from (due) punishment. For God sees well all that they do. Say O Muhammad: "Whoever is the enemy of Jibrã'el (Gabriel) should know that he revealed this Qur'an to your heart by God’s command, which confirms previous scriptures, and is guidance and good news for the believers. Let them know that whoever is an enemy to God, His angels, His Messengers, Jibrã'el (Gabriel) and Mika‘el (Michael); Allah is an enemy to such unbelievers.”[2:96-98]

"Have you seen the one who takes as his god his own desire? Then would you be responsible for him? Or do you think that most of them hear or reason? They are not except as livestock. Rather, they are [even] more astray in [their] way. )” (25: 43-44)

“You (O Muhammad) are not there to compel them to believe. So admonish with this Qur’an every such person who fears My warning.” [50:45]

“Verily God hath bought of the Believers their lives and their properties for the price that theirs shall be the Paradise: so they fight in the way of Allah and slay and are slain. It (i.e. the promise of Paradise) is a covenant which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Injil and the Qur’an. And who is more faithful unto his covenant than God? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.” (9: 111)

You are the best community ever raised among mankind; your duty is to command people to do good and prevent them from committing evil. [3: 110]

There is no priest or clergy in Islam; religious leaders or scholars are neither ordained persons, nor do they belong to any kind of leadership hierarchy. Rather, they are simply individual Muslims who have acquired more religious knowledge than the average believer. Allah enjoins upon you have to ask whatever you need for to Allah alone by yourself without any intermediary. There is no intermediary between the Creator and the creation. God’s messengers were warners only; they will also face the same trial like the messaged in the hereafter. So, if someone calls any messenger for help or asks Allah to grant him anything for the sake of the messenger, he will be associating the messenger with Allah and Allah has declared in the Quran that He will never forgive such sin. A believer, therefore, must remain vigilant that he does not associate any person or thing with Allah directly or indirectly either in faith or in any action.

Those people are disbelievers who do not believe that there is any only God, Who has creates and sustains everything in the heavens and in the earth, and Who will try us in the hereafter for our deeds done in this world. Thus if a person believes that there is more than the only God or there are subordinate gods under God, we can call him a disbeliever. A misbeliever is a wolf donned in Islamic garment; they tell verbally that God is one and Only, but invent new practices in Islam that were never done or told to be done by Muhammed (pbuh). They also invent stories conflicting with the Quran and falsely assign them as sayings of Muhammed (pbuh), and they worship him along with Allah especially in their supplication—a practice of associating him as a partner in Allah’s decision whether to forgive or not. They memorize the Quran and recite it nicely, but they abide very little by Allah’s warning of not associating any partner with Him. Instead of following the Quran and the ideals of Muhammed (pbuh) and shunning the fake Hadiths that conflict with the Quran, they very little bother to know the Quranic instructions or not to do anything that was not done by the prophet as worship. They run after fake stories falsely assigned to Muhammed (pbuh) and follow their misconceived scholars as idols. They are very punctual in salah (daily prayers), in soam (fasting), in zakah (compulsory alms-giving) and in hajj (pilgtimage to Makkah). But at the same time they worship the prophet whose name, they consider, plays a great role in Allah’s decision in forgiving the sinners. So, they invariably ask Allah in their supplications to forgive their sins FOR THE SAKE OF MOHAMMED (PBUH) and to SEND DURUD ON THEIR BEHALF TO THE GTAVE OF MOHAMMED (PBUH). They not only worship the prophet, some of them also worship the graves of great people and pretended saintly people. From a random survey conducted in Bangladesh, I have seldom come by any Muslim scholar who does not worship the prophet, especially in their belief that prophet’s name has a greatly favorable effect in Allah’s decision in forgiving sins. Most of the Muslim scholars of India and Pakistan as well as the mass people following them are also learnt to have the same misbelief. Both disbelievers and the misbelievers are supposed to be the residents of the hell in the hereafter.

 

[songinwind]

Greetings,


I would be interested to know this too. As far as I know he's remained a Catholic...

Peace

I went and read about this man...many thing---as I never heard of him before,and know much more now...
"Is Dr. Maurice Bucaille a Muslim?"....in all i was able to find and read,,,that answer seems hard to find...but did find one that points to a firm "no"...here is the link [link removed]
pray this is of help...and I also learned from this,,

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I went and read about this man...many thing---as I never heard of him before,and know much more now...
"Is Dr. Maurice Bucaille a Muslim?"....in all i was able to find and read,,,that answer seems hard to find...but did find one that points to a firm "no"...here is the link [link removed]
pray this is of help...and I also learned from this,,

I think that's an anti-Islamic site, isn't it? It would be better to find a neutral source, if such a thing is possible on this question...

Peace

 

[songinwind]

I went and read about this man...many thing---as I never heard of him before,and know much more now...
"Is Dr. Maurice Bucaille a Muslim?"....in all i was able to find and read,,,that answer seems hard to find...but did find one that points to a firm "no"...here is the link [link removed]
pray this is of help...and I also learned from this,,

I apolgy to the forum...i didn't relize my mistake with that link...

 

[songinwind]

Greetings,


I think that's an anti-Islamic site, isn't it? It would be better to find a neutral source, if such a thing is possible on this question...

Peace

That was my mistake, as i posted without thinking...But the bit i did read on this man...I don't care to read anymore.. ...as we are warned about this, and i keep my deen tight with quran'/sunnah