The Debt that the West owes to Islam.

[SilentObserver]

There's no such thing as "debts" that Muslim owes, or Christian owes when it comes to knowledge..... it's all are called as "contributions" not "debts"

Nobody owes anybody...

Thank you. A voice of reason.

 

[Idris]

Tariq landed on the coat of Spain along with his men and his first order was to set the boats on fire and sink them. This was undoubtedly strange but in fact, it was an act of matchless bravery. As a seasoned military commander, he knew that compared with the huge enemy force he had with him a very small one. His soldiers might lose heart or a discouraging situation might lead them to retreat. They were standing between their enemy and sea.

Tadmir, the military commander of Roderick was very experienced and had led his force to victory in a number of encounters. He was encamped near Tariq’s forces with a strong army. He launched a powerful attack before the Muslim forces had a chance to get settled. However, Tariq gave him a smashing defeat and he fled from the battlefield. He them wrote to Roderick the following day from a safe place:

“ O Emperor some strange people have invaded our territory. We fought with courage and bravery but tasted defeat and our troops could not withstand their onslaught.”


Thw two forces clashed on the bank of a small river near Janda Lagoon adjoing Sidonia city on 28 Ramadan 92 A.H. (July 711 C.E.). Now the twelve thousand men Joined Tariq before the confrontation. Now the twelve thousand men of Tariq had to face a strong Christian force of one hundred thousand

The greater part of Christian force consisted of cavalry clad in armour, while Muslim had only foot soldiers. The cavalry movement of the Christians was quite terrifying and it appeared very clear that they would crush the Muslim troops under their hooves without giving them an opportunity to take up their arms against the Christians. But the glittering Islamic swords dispelled the hovering clouds of the Christian force and left many lying dead and wounded their takir ( Allah-0-Akbar Allah is great) rent the air and subdued all other shouts and noise on the battlefield.


Wealth lol is that you argument. The Emperor of Spain was himself leading the army and all the resources of country were his command but he can’t stop 12,000 Muslim men then he had 100,000 men!! And this is not a one off this happen all the time.

At this time the Roman are paying tax to the Muslim the Persians have been done over and your saying that some franks that live all the way up in the north were a problem.

Maybe you need to take a look at reality or history.

 

[Keltoi]

If one truly wants to look at history....King Roderick was a Visigoth. Roderick had rivals who were Visigoths. The Muslims, made up mostly of Berbers, enlisted the aid of Roderick's Visigoth rivals in unseating Roderick. King Roderick was fighting Basques and Visigoths in the north when word came of a Muslim army invading from the south. Roderick turned south to fight the Muslims and was defeated. It isn't known whether he died on the battlefield, but historians believe he either drowned in the retreat or continued fighting for a few years until he did in fact die.

Just wanted to throw that out there...

 

[zaki.aumeerudy]

History stands as the most effective and valuable source of putting nations on the course of progress and prosperity and saving them from the path of disgrace and degradation. At a time. When there is tough competition among the nations of the world to excel one another, the Muslims, despite having the most glorious history, appear to be detached and careless as regards their history.

as salaamu alaikum
u give a good point

 

[brenton]

I suppose the debt that the West owes to Islam in the realm of science would be something which the present generation should be made aware of, because science is so central to life in Western society. And if people are aware of the roots of science, and the evolution of science, the scientific method, for instance, which is so central to scientific inquiry, if people become aware of this, then I think the attitude towards Islam would also change.

Your views

I don't think it was science as the West developed it, that was important for the West as much as it was philosophy and linguistics, but also astronomy and weaponry.
As far as "debt," we are a human community, and the debt is paid by the advancements that come--good or bad.

 

[Idris]

As far as "debt," we are a human community, and the debt is paid by the advancements that come--good or bad.

Plz read all of the thread Maybe you will understand what I mean by "debt"
Don't come on and just look at the word "debt" and make statements am not just bashing you there are other people too like.

There's no such thing as "debts" that Muslim owes, or Christian owes when it comes to knowledge..... it's all are called as "contributions" not "debts"

Nobody owes anybody...

Akhi, we don't do any work to please anyone besides Allaah. So the reward is with Him, the All Rich, insha'Allaah.

If I may, I will like to ask anyone a question.
Have you ever leant about what the Muslims accomplished In Spain in your history lesson in school? Have to ever been enlighten by your teacher about the Muslim civilization?
This quote puts it better then I can

"When we study Europe's Middle Ages, we seldom include Spain (at least not until after the "reconquest"). Our libraries abound with books on the Middle Ages, but try to find in any of them a single word about daily life and customs in Spain. It is as if later historians, in order to justify a uniquely "European history", ignored the fact that a vibrant and brilliant civilization created by "Others"—by Arabs, by Muslims, by Jews—by brown and black people—not only existed in Europe, but without whose contributions the region could not have become what it did. When we talk about "Europe's" Renassiance, we never think of its beginnings in Spain several centuries before it reached Italy. It's as if we lopped off a good 1000 years of history—or at least amputated it from Europe. Nothing could be farther from the truth."
From the introduction to A Medieval Banquet in the Alhambra Palace, Audrey Shabbas, editor, AWAIR, 1991.

 

[cihad]

All of ^ that is true ,but I think we need to come to the present, coz us muslims are not making a great deal of progress right now

 

[zaki.aumeerudy]

All of ^ that is true ,but I think we need to come to the present, coz us muslims are not making a great deal of progress right now

everyone says that we must follow quran and sunnah
how many poeple knows about quran and sunnah ? are they really interested
how many poeple are making hajj today ?? is there life changing ? why???
what is the problem ??
why are muslims being humiliated so much ??

 

[Idris]

All of ^ that is true ,but I think we need to come to the present, coz us muslims are not making a great deal of progress right now

everyone says that we must follow quran and sunnah
how many poeple knows about quran and sunnah ? are they really interested
how many poeple are making hajj today ?? is there life changing ? why???
what is the problem ??
why are muslims being humiliated so much ??

The answer is in history, look into the rise of Islam and the fall of Islam and you will understand why the Muslims are in as a bad way now. However, the west does not want you to know your history. They are terrified that if the Muslims discover about their great history I.e. the rise and fall of Muslims.Muslim they may ask themselves and say why can’t we do it again. We did one time we can do another time.

 

[Jibril]

The answer is in history, look into the rise of Islam and the fall of Islam and you will understand why the Muslims are in as a bad way now. However, the west does not want you to know your history. They are terrified that if the Muslims discover about their great history I.e. the rise and fall of Islam Muslim they may ask themselves and say why can’t we do it again. We did one time we can do another time.

You should say "rise and fall" of Muslims, not Islam. Islam has never fallen and will never fall inshallah.

 

[zaki.aumeerudy]

You should say "rise and fall" of Muslims, not Islam. Islam has never fallen and will never fall inshallah.

according to the ulamas the time of turmoil decsribed in the hadith has come
where a person is sleeping will be better than the one awaken
the person awaken will be better than the one sitting
the one sitting will be better than the one stnading
the one standing will be better than the one walking
the one walking will be better than the one running
the one who cna get a protection against that should do so
the technique used to destroy islaam is very complex but the majority of muslims do not care
they do care when it is too late , the time of dajjal is very near

 

[Idris]

You should say "rise and fall" of Muslims, not Islam. Islam has never fallen and will never fall inshallah.

Yes you are right.

 

[ACC]

The answer is in history, look into the rise of Islam and the fall of Islam and you will understand why the Muslims are in as a bad way now. However, the west does not want you to know your history. They are terrified that if the Muslims discover about their great history I.e. the rise and fall of Muslims.Muslim they may ask themselves and say why can’t we do it again. We did one time we can do another time.

This seems a tad alarnist. Read as many books on history as you want and see how little people in the West care.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

If I may, I will like to ask anyone a question.
Have you ever leant about what the Muslims accomplished In Spain in your history lesson in school?

Yes.

Have to ever been enlighten by your teacher about the Muslim civilization?

Yes.

I've also learned much about Muslim contributions to the history of ideas through my own independent study. That's right - I spent time educating myself. You may be surprised by the number of people who have done the same.

In fact, I assumed it was fairly well-known that Islamic civilisation was at its peak while Europe was in the Dark Ages.

Nevertheless, deciding what "the main cause" of something as big as the Enlightenment was is surely impossible. There were many causes; fixing on one of them and endlessly arguing for it only makes one seem ignorant of all the others.

It's amazing how many examples of paranoia and the victim complex are to be found in this thread. I think Muezzin's post has been one of the wisest so far. If Muslims stopped blaming others for the situation they find themselves in, is it possible their fortunes would improve?

Peace

 

[Akil]

Most of modern science, mathematics, philosophy and even medicine were indeed more or less founded by the Greek civilizations and then the Roman Empire. But as has already been mentioned the Muslim contribution to Western civilization was the preservation of this knowledge (and their own additions as well) through the dark ages when we destroyed it and I will also state that the Renaissance was brought on by Western contact with Muslim civilization (among other things).

The main reason I am rambling on is that, this highlights a point I like to make in Muslim forums; Muslim civilization ruled vast portions of the world when Muslims studied Socrates, Aristotle, Plato and others alongside the Quran and Sunnah.

Take from that what you will. But in my opinion an open mind goes a long way in the world.