The existence of God

[ninjarunner]

I don't think I believe in God because of any 'proof' that has ever been presented to me.

I believe in God because there was a specific moment in my life, when my eyes were opened; when everything I had ever heard, read and known suddenly fell into place and I knew: God is real!

Once I had that inner conviction of God's existence and presence, everything - every breath, every day, every living thing, every sunrise, every landscape - became living proof of his existence, and it became impossible to imagine life without believing in God ...

I don't think 'proof' alone can convince anybody of God's existence.
It also require an inner willingness to submit, to believe and to change. Without that willingness an unbeliever will always stay an unbeliever ...

how does that relate to people of other religions? they dont believe in your god is there a particular reason why you decided god was the chrisitan one and not the muslim one? Or a deistic one?

 

[------]

:salamext:

God does not have any religion :-\ Religion is for humans.

 

[glo]

how does that relate to people of other religions? they dont believe in your god is there a particular reason why you decided god was the chrisitan one and not the muslim one? Or a deistic one?

Well, personally I believe that the three Abrahamic faiths do believe in the same God ... but that's another topic, and it doesn't account for uncounted other religions which honour different deities.

In answer to your question, yes, there was a specific reason why I was left believing firmly that what I believed was in line with the Christian faith and no other religion.

I cannot speak for other people.
The make their own assessments and come to their own conclusions.
What convinced me may not convince others, and vice versa.

Nice talking. Welcome to LI.

 

[ninjarunner]

Well how about how do you know that your understanding of god (the christian for some) is right. How do you know the rules that your ideally follow based on that understanding is right? How do you know that your is the one dictated by god/s?

 

[Nerd]

Can you explain what you mean by 'believing in God to be on the safe side'?

Thanks

We all tend to science -(maybe we are a bit overly dependent on science these days)- to get answers whether a God exist or not. And for the time being it seem to be impossible for science to come up with a definite answer on this matter.

Considering the facts like the average life span of a human being and the rate at which science is progressing, it would be rather dumb to wait for answers and die and possibly go to hell.

But true belief in God does have a lot to do with "Inner convictions".

 

[Nerd]

And is this just your opinion or a fact that you are stating?

Its a possibility am stating here, that people can take into consideration.

 

[glo]

Well how about how do you know that your understanding of god (the christian for some) is right. How do you know the rules that your ideally follow based on that understanding is right? How do you know that your is the one dictated by god/s?

Well, I am convinced that I follow God in the way he wants me to, I believe I do, I trust that I do ... but I don't know.

Regardless of what others may tell you, I think none of us know!
We won't know until the time of our death ... and then we will all know the whole truth.

Until then, all of us just do the best we are capable of ...

 

[aamirsaab]

Well how about how do you know that your understanding of god (the christian for some) is right. How do you know the rules that your ideally follow based on that understanding is right? How do you know that your is the one dictated by god/s?

It essentially comes down to emotion rather than logic. You feel it is right within you (obviously this opens up the can of worms: well so do murderers etc etc) but in Islam atleast, it is often referred to as imaan.

Additionally, there is feedback from following the teachings of religion (which can be interepretated as positive or negative) - if religion was solely about blind faith then why is there not a single religion that states: all you should do is pray? Clearly this is not the case as far as religion is concerned - especially given the fact that some form of deity worshipping occurs in almost every outpost of humanity on this earth (apart from maybe eskimos) - if they were purely down to simply praying then those religions wouldn't have survived.

In simpler terms: all religions ask of their followers to actively do something. The feedback that you get from performing those acts will lead you to the conclusion that yes my religion is true or no my religion is not. Of course, there are additional ways of determining whether your religion is true or not but in the heart of the believer it comes down to the experience/feedback from practicing the religion.

 

[glo]

We all tend to science -(maybe we are a bit overly dependent on science these days)- to get answers whether a God exist or not. And for the time being this is seem to be impossible for science to come up with a definite answer on this matter.

Considering the facts like the average life span of a human being and the rate at which science is progressing, it would be rather dumb to wait for answers and die and possibly go to hell.

But true belief in God does have a lot to do with "Inner convictions".

Thanks for clarifying, Nerd.

Nowadays, many people seem to increasingly put their entire trust in science.
Like you, I doubt that science will be able to answer everything - although some people believe that one day it will ...

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Well, I am convinced that I follow God in the way he wants me to, I believe I do, I trust that I do ... but I don't know.

Regardless of what others may tell you, I think none of us know!
We won't know until the time of our death ... and then we will all know the whole truth.

Until then, all of us just do the best we are capable of ...

Absolutely, 100% correct. If more people thought this way, the world would be a far safer place to live.

Brilliant post, glo.

Peace

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Well, I am convinced that I follow God in the way he wants me to, I believe I do, I trust that I do ... but I don't know.
...

and how do you follow God?


Who do you learn to follow God from?


Its good you believe in God but following him in the correct manner is a must, i strongly believe every single human should strive in their lives to find the correct way of Worshipping God. Tell me just how much have you searched ways of how to worship God and which one seems most natural and befitting?



to me nothing can compare to worshipping God in the prescribed five daily prayers... nothing...

 

[Abdul Fattah]

If a person says that something exists, it's their responsibility to provide proof.

No, because I never claimed it as a scientific fact. When I claim God exists, I'm preaching a religion. In the end of the day I acknowledge it to be a belief. I will never say for example that God's existence is a scientific proven fact. At best I would say there's religious and philosophical indications to believe that. On the other hand when an atheists says: "god doesn't exist", he's trying to pass off his claim as factual. Of course when an atheists says "I don't believe that God exists.", that's a whole different thing. See, it all depends on how you look at it.

 

[glo]

Tell me just how much have you searched ways of how to worship God and which one seems most natural and befitting?

to me nothing can compare to worshipping God in the prescribed five daily prayers... nothing...

Greetings, brother

You will just have to take my word for it that I have explored other religions and ways of worship.
Not least of all have I spent more than two years here in LI, exploring the Islamic faith extensively, and with an open heart and an open mind ...

With regards to actually engaging in worship of other religions, I must say that I have not tried that.
I am sure you understand that. After all, would you join me in Christian prayer, if I invited you? I am sure you would not!

Once, many years ago, when I was exploring other religions, I remember getting on my knees and trying to pray to a pagan deity.
I had such a sudden sense of ... well, the only word that springs to mind is shame. No words came out of my mouth, and I jumped up immediately.
Although I was not a Christian then, and didn't become a Christian for some years after that, it just felt so wrong to be praying to those gods.
I knew there and then that I would never try it again, and I haven't ...

I am glad you find such comfort and joy in praying in Islamically prescribed ways to Allah five times a day, and I wish you well.

I too experience great peace, joy and guidance in my prayer and worship.

To you your religion, brother, and to me mine.

Salaam.

 

[Trumble]

On the other hand when an atheists says: "god doesn't exist", he's trying to pass off his claim as factual. Of course when an atheists says "I don't believe that God exists.", that's a whole different thing. See, it all depends on how you look at it.

I don't see the distinction. Why must "an atheist" be "trying to pass off his claim as factual" while, presumably, "a theist" will share your own enlightened position? There are people who do both in both camps, which is more visible in this forum than anywhere else I can think of!

 

[Tornado]

I won't believe in a god to be on the safe side because if there is a god, it would know that I had be lying to myself. The lush forests, waterfalls, and all the other magnificent things in the natural world isn't evidence for a creator. It's tough to actually think that these creations came about without a creator, but science shows how a lot of stuff did come about without a creator. Science comes nowhere to explaining everything in the universe, but it does explain a whole lot.
There might be a god, there might not be a god, but theist know for sure there is a god ('cept glo). Atheists don't know whether there is a god or not but since the natural world doesn't need a designer, it's more of an opinion that since god isn't needed, maybe he's just not there.
Why is there something rather than nothing? An incredibly tough question. I don't know (yet, not sure if we'll ever find that answer), whereas theists not only know it's god, but they also know which one of the many gods.
An atheist doesn't have to believe in science, just have to have a lack of belief in god.

 

[Abdul Fattah]

I don't see the distinction. Why must "an atheist" be "trying to pass off his claim as factual" while, presumably, "a theist" will share your own enlightened position? There are people who do both in both camps, which is more visible in this forum than anywhere else I can think of!

Consider the difference between:
-An atheists saying: "god doesn't exist"
-An atheist saying: "I don't believe that God exists."
I think it's clear that for the second is sharing his position, but the first is passing it off as a fact.
Now consider the same difference between:
-An theists saying: "god exist"
-An theist saying: "I believe that God exists."

When I say "God exists", I am preaching. But I think it goes without saying that when a atheist says "god doesn't exists" that he doesn't think he is "preaching" his views. See in general most atheists won't even acknowledge that atheism is a belief, but will instead insist that it is the default position. So the difference lies in the intention. An atheist thinks he's dealing with undeniable facts when he claims god doesn't exist. A theist on the other hand, while he may sometimes be carried away, knows that in the end of the day what he's saying is a religion!

Secondly you need to understand that this is also culturally decided. Due to atheists often seeing atheism as the default position like I explained in the previous paragraph, it is much more of a soar issue to theists when an atheists says "god doesn't exist" as opposed to a theist saying "God exists".

 

[Gator]

But does the theist hold even the infinitesimally small probablity that god doesn't exist?

I'm an atheist, but I'm the "I don't believe there's a god" sort I guess. While I think there's no god I still leave the infinitesimally small probablity that god exists.

 

[aamirsaab]

But does the theist hold even the infinitesimally small probablity that god doesn't exist?

Wouldn't they be categorised as an agnostic then? Surely a thiest is one who believes in God, an aethiest is one who doesn't and an agnostic is one who really isn't quite so sure (hence would be thinking maybe there is maybe there isn't - the guy/gal in the middle as it were)

 

[Gator]

In my understanding, the agnostic says that their belief in the existence or non-existence isn't able to be reasoned based on their experience and available evidence.

I have come to the conclusion based on my experience of the world and how my mind processes it that there is no god, so I'm an atheist. Now, I also believe that nothing is impossible and I could be wrong so I'll always leave open the possibility (however small) that a god might exist.

Now my question is that a theist believes god exists but (and I know this is a very individualized question) do you leave open the possibility that you could be wrong, the same way I do?

Thanks.

 

[aamirsaab]

...
Now my question is that a theist believes god exists but (and I know this is a very individualized question) do you leave open the possibility that you could be wrong, the same way I do?

Thanks.

I guess so, from a human stand point. We'd usually just call it doubt, which is part of human nature. So yeah I guess there is a certain possibility that they could be wrong, though no more than anyone else would have were they in their shoes.