THE GAZA "DISENGAGEMENT" - Your Opinions

[Muezzin]

I also think it's a good thing. Finally some viable political opposition. It could also mean an end, or at least a curtailment, to the violence.

 

[minaz]

inshaallah - let's hope so

 

[- Qatada -]

Palestine was a British possession before the UN mandated it's handover for a Jewish homeland. Much land the Jews had in Palestine and Israel was purchased by the Jews legally, even before Israel was created.

I feel bad for the plight of the Palestinians and they do deserve justice as well.

But both sides have to respect each other, stop killing each other and lerarn to live side by side.

Asalam o alikum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh..

... and palestine was a independent state before the british rule. did they have the right to take over? did they have the right to force the people who belonged in that country to evacuate their homez so someone else could live there? someone they never even knew, and that someone was your enemy.. if u was a palestinian, wouldn't u want to re-unite with your family? go back to your home so u could live normally again, so u could play soccer with your younger bro.. but wait, NO. u couldn't play with your younger brother cz he got shot cz he was throwin rocks at one of the zionist tanks. your dad died as a martyr and your sister was caught a prisoner. your mom had died in a bomb explosion.. where do you turn to? didnt u just want a normal life...


wasalam o alikum warahmatulahi wabarakatuh.

 

[imaad_udeen]

1) Hamas, islamic resistance movement, mujahideen, palestianin mujahid fighters, islamic freedom fighters, these are the brave warrioirs of islaam you are calling a terrorist organization. On what grounds are they terrorist, put forward your evidence. If defending your land and doing jihaad and fighting for justice, peace and islaam is a terrorist act, than yes they are terrorist. May Allaah accept them as defenders of the deen and make their intemtions pure, anf guide, unite, and strenghten them! Ameen.

2) The 'Isreali's are a illegal people, and a nation living on robbed islamic land. The muslim ummah do not recongize them as a legitamate state, and they will be fought until they are destroyed. The nation of 'Isreal' was built upon land which does not belong to them, but palestinain muslims. Justice will be restored, and the mujahideen will not rest until every inch of land is liberated, and Al Aqsa masjid is freeded from the shackles of zionist state terrorism.

Again, it was someone elses land before it was 'Muslim' so just how far back are we to go to decide what ethnic or religious group owns it?

The fact is that Israel is there, has been for generations now and has the right to live in peace with its neighbors. Until some get this idea through their thick skulls, nothing will get done.

And yes, I am calling them terrorists. If they will kill innocent people intentionally then they are terrorists.
Hamas is notorious for releasing their 'martyr' videos where some Palestinian kid explains exactly why he is about to to some Jewish restaurant and blow himself up.

If they want to be warriors then fight like warriors. Warriors fight like men and don't send some confused young man to massacre people while they are eating dinner or celebrating a birthday or riding a bus or flying in a plane.
]
Fight the Israeli Defense Forces if you want any respect from me and any mercy from God.

 

[imaad_udeen]

This notion that Isreal has right to live in peace is the riducolous, unislamic, bizaree statement i have heard from a muslim

So Hashim proves to us again that he is the judge of what IS and IS NOT "Islamic."

, second only to the belief that iraq was 'liberated' by America, again a statement made by you, sub'hann'allaah!

I know you don't like me for what I believe and I am sorry that my beliefs offend you. But I am confident that I am more learned in the situation than you are.

'Isreal' does not have the right to live in peace because even though they have robbed the palestiain land, this is not enough for them, they have brutally occupied bu force and commited inhumane acts of evil, daily atrocities and mass genocide on a huge scale almost on a daily basis. How can we sit back and let the 'Isreali's' live in peace when they are commiting state terrorism and this continued aggression against our brothers and sisters?!!!

Mass genocide on a huge scale?

If the Jews were so intent on wiping out the Palestinians then what has been stopping them all these years?

'Isreal' does have the right to exist when they refuse 6 million palestians the right to return to their homes and land!

PLease don't be naive. And don't make me explkain to you how the politics of the real world works. It might interfere with this little fantasy world you have built up for yourself.

'Isreal' does not have the right to exist when they have more than 8000 palestians in zionist prisons perishing in dispicabale conditions!!!

I'm sure you've seen these conditions yourself. Either that or you read about it on some website. Either way, you're the expert.

'Isreal' does not have right to live in peace when they shoot dead palestian men, rape and beat to death palestinian women and take the palestinian youth and kids to detention centres equal to the concentration camps.

So is it fair to say that Palestinians do not enjoy the right to exist for the atrocities they have committed with homicide bombs or by murdering Olympic athletes, etc

By the way, does playing 'devil's advocate' also revoke my beliefs in God, Hashim? Please advise me on how to think like a good Muslim, oh wise man.

'Isreal' does not have the right to live in peace....because they do not have the right to exist. Wallaahee, they will never be left in peace, the Qassim missiles will keep come raining down, the rockets and the mortars will vontinued to be launched on them, the martydom operations will continue to rock their illegal towns and cities, the gunmen will continue to attack them, the resistance will continue to pond them, and the mujahideen will keep on fighting until they are destroyed, and judtice and peace is restored for the muslims.

That's a great plan.

THEN, when Isreal is destroyed and Palestine has its land back,

You do know that there never was a nation of "Palestinians" don't you?

the jews will have the RIGHT to live in peace and co-existance on muslim land. They will not be persecuted, how they persecuted us, they will not be oppressed and terrorized how thry did to us, they will not be hated and feared like they hatede and feared us, because this is not the way of the mu'meneen of Allaah (most high). And Allaah subhanhu'wa'tallaah knows best.

It's easy to talk war in the comfort of the UK, isn't it?



[/QUOTE]

 

[ChasingRainbows]

Salam Alaikum,

Aren't the jews who are being evacuated from Gaza living in illegal settlements to begin with? From what I learnt about this whole issue was All the palestinians were to have was the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which is around 20% of their original land. 80% of the land under Jewish control is uncontested land. Zionist plot was to build illegal settlements and place checkpoints everywhere so as to force the rest of Palestinians out. The Jewish settlements that are being destroyed are not supposed to be there under international agreements perhaps. Anyway I believe the palestinians have a long way to go before they can get their land in its entirety.

 

[imaad_udeen]

Salam Alaikum,

Aren't the jews who are being evacuated from Gaza living in illegal settlements to begin with? From what I learnt about this whole issue was All the palestinians were to have was the West Bank and Gaza Strip, which is around 20% of their original land. 80% of the land under Jewish control is uncontested land. Zionist plot was to build illegal settlements and place checkpoints everywhere so as to force the rest of Palestinians out. The Jewish settlements that are being destroyed are not supposed to be there under international agreements perhaps. Anyway I believe the palestinians have a long way to go before they can get their land in its entirety.

Certainly the Palestinians have many grievences.

The thing is, though, that all this land was never really owned by any Palestinian authority. It was owned by the Turks, then the British, then when Israel was created they owned Israel proper and the West Bank was controlled by Jordan and Gaza was controlled by Egypt.

So, it is not entirely correct to say all this land 'belongs to the Palestinains' as there are other arguments which say otherwise.

Mind you, I am just attempting to show the other side of the coin. I am not a radical who thinks Israel should be destroyed. I think the two sides should be able to live side by side with each other.

The main case for Israel is that it is a democracy which affords rights to religious minorities, including many 'Israeli Arab' Muslims. This is something which none of it's neighbors share, no democracy.

 

[minaz]

Ok i've got mixed reactions to your post Hashim:
I agree here that Israel is acting totaly different to the methods of a democratic state

If Isreal is a democracy, democracy is a very evil thing

I gathered from this that you don't favour democracy

all other (haraam) systems like democracy have their many faults

mainly becuase they contradict tawheed, the basis for the purpose of life

Sorry could you explain further please, including examples if you can

 

[Labaik Ya Allah]

jus fill me in i cant read all the other posts

what is this topic about

 

[czgibson]

Verily if Isreal is a democracy than democracy is a cousin of dictatorship and a evil system which revolves around state terrorism. If this is democracy, may Allaah (swt) truly guide them. Ameen.

Do you think this is true of all democracies?

Peace

 

[Labaik Ya Allah]

dont no what democracy means dont pay attention to that kinda of stuff in skool

 

[czgibson]

You're obviously not the person to ask then.

 

[Labaik Ya Allah]

i no that

 

[Labaik Ya Allah]

man i jus dont no what to say there bro

 

[minaz]

Ok Hash I see your point (although I disagree), so does living in a democratic society mean that one is committing a haraam act?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings Hashim,

What i meant was that imaad said that Isreal is a democacy, so i am saying if this is true than democracy must be a evil thing.

I gathered you were talking about Israel, but don't you see what a dangerous argument can be made with logic like that above?

Do you really think all democracies are like Israel? Beware of making generalisations.

The main arguments you've used to denigrate democracy rely on the argument from authority - along the lines of "read this if you don't believe me; it's all explained there; someone very clever wrote this book, so it's bound to be true." It's one of the most common fallacies in argument. You must present your own reasons - why does democracy seem bad to you? Is it because of your own ideas or because of something you've been told?

Peace

 

[imaad_udeen]

dont no what democracy means dont pay attention to that kinda of stuff in skool

:zip:

 

[ChasingRainbows]

Salam Alaikum,

So, it is not entirely correct to say all this land 'belongs to the Palestinains' as there are other arguments which say otherwise.

Palestine belongs to the Turks, English and the Isrealis like Canada, America, and Australia belong to the white man and not the aboriginals. Palestine belongs to the palestinians because they are the people who lived there before it was even promised to Moses, go look it up in the old testament. Ask the arabs from the peninsula and they will tell the 'shamis' are not real arabs. How can the Israelis move there under the pretext that this the land promised to them in their bible when the world hasn't met this central authority figure from God to re-affirm the promise or to even lead them there? I read in the newspapers that some of the jews who were being forced out with the crocodile tears were actually born and raised in New York, Toronto etc. 'my land, my land' yeah and pigs fly. Why don't they speak the truth and say that they are sick and tired of being gypsies. I'm afraid in a democratic society Israel's living peacefully side by side with the people who own the land is something that would be decided by the Palestinians themselves but there is no democracy only hostile takeovers and oppression day in and day out.

 

[Ahmed_Yaseen]

The fact is that Israel is there, has been for generations now and has the right to live in peace with its neighbors. Until some get this idea through their thick skulls, nothing will get done.

Imaad,

Can you let me know what your home address is? I could then invade your home and send you to live in the smallest room in the house. And if you want to use the toilet/bathroom or if you want to go out, you will have to seek my permission first. I will 'control the borders' and place sort of 'checkpoints' in the house. And because I will have settled there, I have the 'right to exist' (to borrow your words).

What do you think Imaad?

 

[imaad_udeen]

Imaad,

Can you let me know what your home address is? I could then invade your home and send you to live in the smallest room in the house. And if you want to use the toilet/bathroom or if you want to go out, you will have to seek my permission first. I will 'control the borders' and place sort of 'checkpoints' in the house. And because I will have settled there, I have the 'right to exist' (to borrow your words).

What do you think Imaad?

I'd fight back, of course.

But I wouldn't go out of my way to murder your cousin while he's eating pizza. Meaning your assualt on me in no way justifies me assaulting other members of your family.

Nothing Israel does justifies the terrorism that murders its innocents.

Nothing Palestine does justifies Israeli terrorism murdering their innocents.

The point of my post was, Israel is not going to be destroyed, it won't happen in our lifetime. Our best chance is to make a peace which is agreeable to both sides and then begin to learn to live together.

This also probaby won't happen in our lifetime.

But generations of war has done nothing but make Israel stronger. Strong to the point that it's neighboring nations are scared of it (syria) or have made peace with it (Egypt-Jordan)

The Palestinians cannot destroy Israel by themselves and they cannot destroy Israel with the help of all the neighboring Arab countries.

Peace is the only option for the Palestinians at this point, it is their strongest and best weapon.

MHO