The harsher you are, the more Islamic you are?

[GuestFellow]

Say someone came to you telling you that they commit Zina or kill someone else, this won't even be considered as a mere mistake but as a dangerous sin. Because if they didn't get that impression from you they might think that what they did is something trivial.

Personally, I would not yell or get angry. I see no use for these emotions. There is no need to be harsh either in my opinion. I would tell the Muslim who committed Zina that they have done something very bad and they should ask for forgiveness. I would also tell them the punishment prescribed for zina to portray how serious the sin they have committed. I would then go on to say how they can make small lifestyle changes and make some improvements.

When I become harsh, I become judgemental and become something which I hate (I also start to swear at them). So I avoid getting harsh.

I suppose we all have different methods of dealing with people who are doing something wrong.

 

[Hossam Al-Deen]

I believe there is a difference between being rigid, and being harsh. I do not like people that are harsh, that is, upleasantly rough with brothers and sisters. They are the ones that never smile, they never do anything to enjoy themselves a bit, and I am sure other things that you all can think of yourselves.

I believe that I am rigid. That is, things that are clearly halal or haram and people try and impose their own... tastes if you will, I will not budge in making exceptions, which is a duty for every Muslim. A perfect example of this would be the Masjid, I love Allah, and Islam, but I avoid going to masjids if I don't have to go. Why? Because when I go their, everyone, especially the younger people, are imposing their style of Islam and not following the Sunnah.

I would go in there for Jumah prayer, IN THE HOUSE OF ALLAH, and women would be dressed as if they are going to a club right after the prayer. They are wearing ultra ultra tight pants, clothes that shape their breasts, and high heals. Brothers are the same, they wear these muscle shirts, with the shirt being unbuttoned and showing their chest.

Or the brothers shirts are so tight, that when they do sujood the shirt lifts and shows their lower back. There is no respect for the house of Allah.

I am in no means saying I am perfect, but I am just expressing to you things that aggravate me, and the difference between what I think is harsh and when rigidity is necessary.

Salaam

 

[Danah]

Personally, I would not yell or get angry. I see no use for these emotions.

Being harsh is not necessarily mean yelling at someone. Keep in mind that you are not getting angry on the person who did wrong, but on the action or the sin itself. We need to distinguish between the two things very well.

When I become harsh, I become judgemental and become something which I hate (I also start to swear at them). So I avoid getting harsh.

Now that can differ from one to another, if being harsh mean that the person can't control himself out of anger then its better to stay away from the whole thing.

I believe there is a difference between being rigid, and being harsh. I do not like people that are harsh, that is, upleasantly rough with brothers and sisters. They are the ones that never smile, they never do anything to enjoy themselves a bit, and I am sure other things that you all can think of yourselves.

Agreed!

 

[GuestFellow]

Being harsh is not necessarily mean yelling at someone.

Like I said, it depends on what people mean by being harsh. According to the Microsoft dictionary, harsh means:

2. severely critical: severely scrutinizing, critical, and rigid in manner

• harsh criticism

There were other definitions, but it applied to different contexts.

if being harsh mean that the person can't control himself out of anger then its better to stay away from the whole thing.

That is not practical in reality. There will be a time where we all have to confront a serious issue and our emotions are put to the test.

I think by harsh, people mean being blunt or firm, as in not sugarcoating the severity of the issue.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

wa alyakum us-Salaam

...Well I became agnostic due to some Muslims being harsh to other Muslims. I'm just concerned that being harsh will give the wrong impression to other Muslims and even non-Muslims.

how do you mean? like Muslims put you off Islam becuase they were being too harsh. and by harsh you mean like the examples you gave in the original post of what the sister said about only Somali and Arab people practicing Islam and about what the brother said about the sister who doesn't wear hijab?

saying things like that arent necessary becuase you arent advising people, you are criticizing them. this "tone" is uncalled for.

It does depend on what we mean by being harsh. I personally view being harsh as getting loud, angry and sometimes insulting the other person in the process. :/

in this context of harsh, my definition is just using a certain tone or a certain expression just to prompt the person into thinking twice. so the words themselves arent anything humiliating or degrading to the person, but the tone used is in a way just to make the person think twice. basically you are being firm but kind about it. does that make sense? i dont think there is anything wrong with that.

the other type of scenario where "harshness" maybe used is in refutation to others who insult Islam. im not talking about those respectful non-Muslims who actually make the effort to be respectful and kind but those hate mogerers who find spit out insults at allah and this deen. imo, i dont care, these types of people need to be dealt with harshness. people may argue that they are ignorant but imo, someone who is actually interested in learning (as opposed to trouble making), is respectful about it. when you want something from your neighbor you go and knock on their door politely and ask in an appropriate manner. but if you wanted to cause harm to your neighbor, you bash the door down and take what you want and walk out being careless of the damage you have caused. you cant say that the latter is sincere about their asking. just a random/loose analogy.

 

[GuestFellow]

wa alyakum us-Salaam

how do you mean? like Muslims put you off Islam becuase they were being too harsh. and by harsh you mean like the examples you gave in the original post of what the sister said about only Somali and Arab people practicing Islam and about what the brother said about the sister who doesn't wear hijab?

That is how it started off. There were other reasons why I became agnostic, such as media representation of Islam etc. But the main reason I became agnostic because I was ignorant.

in this context of harsh, my definition is just using a certain tone or a certain expression just to prompt the person into thinking twice. so the words themselves arent anything humiliating or degrading to the person, but the tone used is in a way just to make the person think twice. basically you are being firm but kind about it. does that make sense? i dont think there is anything wrong with that.

the other type of scenario where "harshness" maybe used is in refutation to others who insult Islam. im not talking about those respectful non-Muslims who actually make the effort to be respectful and kind but those hate mogerers who find spit out insults at allah and this deen. imo, i dont care, these types of people need to be dealt with harshness. people may argue that they are ignorant but imo, someone who is actually interested in learning (as opposed to trouble making), is respectful about it. when you want something from your neighbor you go and knock on their door politely and ask in an appropriate manner. but if you wanted to cause harm to your neighbor, you bash the door down and take what you want and walk out being careless of the damage you have caused. you cant say that the latter is sincere about their asking. just a random/loose analogy.

I see. Thanks!

 

[Watcher888]

Nah, this is prevalent even among older Muslims... It might be done in a more subtle way, but its still there. I see it in universities, in masjids, as well as on this forum.

That is a fair and honest point!:thumbs_up

Self reflection is good.
Being able to step outside of yourself, and see yourself from anothers aspect is good!

 

[Zafran]

Posting on an internet forum tends to grant the poster a sense of anonymity, which can bring out the worst in people.

salaam

Your right about that

peace

 

[highway4]

assalamu alaikum.
when your harsh towards another individual in the context that our sister Danah is pointing out it doesnt nesscerily mean to be arrogant, rude or harsh nor does mean to shout or yell... if someone tell you something arrogantly or out of their pride... if there is something they shouldn't be saying then say the opposite, point out the positives instead of the negatives...in the case of teasing someone there not suppose too then befriend the one that their teasing...they may need a friend... 'actions speak louder then words'.

if they continue to be arrogant and pride: you just tell them in a firm but kind and gentle voice....''with all due respect if you got nothing positive nor benefitting to say dont say anything at all''.

If they are insulted...they will get over it...they might think twice before saying something next time...

Harshness can be put in many different ways... Its how you represent it...

 

[h-n]

Of course as Muslims we are always going to dislike what is going to send us to the fire.
Your examples are of social interactions, which if they have anything to say, is approach that person instead of gossiping, and letting them know, and its up to them to heed and repent. I was working with a Muslim girl who was in a relationship with a Sikh -it has ended and she has now married a Muslim, but I did not go around telling everyone, and slandering her.

I do not treat people as if they are dumb, as lets not forget that they are capable of being judged on the Day of Judgement personally by Allah-so I'm not going to treat people as if they are stupid.

Also do not forget as of course the focus is on the people weaker in Islam, that others do not want to associate themselves in bad company -as it may lead them to the fire too.

Being judgemental is too much of a Western phrase-when they don't heed the message from Allah. Allah has already given us the rules, so if someone does not abide by them, it is not arrogant to think that so and so is doing wrong! WE don't have to go to Heaven to find out if a person being lewd, wearing revealing clothing is wrong-as Allah has already taught us that it is wrong. I have even heard lewd females say only Allah is my judge-but Allah has already taught us that Allah dislikes what they do. Allah is not going to call us arrogant for forbidding evil and enjoining good.

When teaching Islam, for me I will always be direct, which people are aware of away from the internet. I do not however tell others what to do, as Islam is a fair easy test. Ie there are some Muslims who think they can make someone the "perfect Muslim" by telling them to be it, when it will be upto that person as of course Allah is testing them to be good, it is not my test to make someone a Muslim, if it was then how would they earn their reward?

So for example people have complained about music, and there are people who don't like the TVs, well I am not into dramas etc, but I am not going to hound people and tell them its wrong, when music was present at the time of Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him, but of course music today is just sick. There are people who harshly treat people, people know where I stand, and they don't interfere with me, and I don't with them. So personally be kind to people. When people ask about Islam, there is only one right way, and I am direct and formal as I am not wasting people's short amount of time in this world. This is what I constantly remember when I write, as of course people who are being tortured in the grave would wished to be in our position, but they cannot.

For me, I will always listen to people who are standing by in Islam. Not waivering (to people who want to change what Islam means), and people who complain about people who speak about Islam, I do not agree with. There are those that use religion to oppress others. The point again is that we talk about the truth, we are not here to change people-that is their test. Allah has NEVER said its our job to change so and so. Allah has NEVER said its our job to make someone a Muslim-its actually their own goal, job to make themselves a Muslim, I am only responsible for my own soul. So you have to make yourselves good that is why Allah is rewarding us individually for being good.

 

[Watcher888]

Originally Posted by Tyrion
You seem to have only mentioned cases where Muslims were looking down on or being harsh towards other Muslims, but lets not forget about how some Muslims act toward non Muslims... Sometimes it can get pretty disgusting, whether it's something being said in private, or something said during a dialog...

This particular problem seems to be more prevalent in online communities... (At least, it does from my experience.)
Posting on an internet forum tends to grant the poster a sense of anonymity, which can bring out the worst in people.

Posting on an internet forum tends to grant the poster a sense of anonymity, which can bring out the worst in people.

Two very good points. :bravo:

 

[S.Belle]

As far as muslims being harsh and judgemental to one another i think its not neccessary bc some non muslims are harsh to us so why should we be like them and be harsh to one another. We are told to be kind and respect one another if our bro/sis does something we should talk to them about their mistakes and try to help them.
For example
Hadith 1:

Anas Bin Maalik said:

While we were in the masjid with the Messenger of Allaah, a Bedouin came; he then urinated in the masjid.

The Companions of the Messenger of Allaah said, “Mah Mah (An expression used to severly scold someone, to indicate the graveness of a matter).”

The Messenger of Allaah said, “Do not put a halt to his urinating, but instead leave him.”

They left him alone until he finished urinating.

The Messenger of Allaah called him over and said to him, “Any kind of urine or filth is not suitable for these masjids. Instead they are only [appropriate] for the remembrance of Allaah, the Prayer, and the recitation of the Qur’aan,” or this is near to what the Messenger of Allaah said.

He (saw) then issued an order to a man from the people, who then came with a bucket of water, which he poured over the [effected] area [of the masjid].

[Related by Muslim in his Saheeh, 285]

Hadith 2:

In another narration related by Abu Huraira, a bedouin once entered in the masjid, while the Prophet was seated inside.

The Bedouin prayed, and when he finished he said, “O Allaah, have mercy on me and on Muhammad, and do not have mercy on anyone other than us.”

The Prophet turned to him and said, “You have indeed constricted that which is vast.”

Then not too much time passed before the Bedouin urinated in the masjid. The sahaabah rushed towards him, and the Prophet (saw) said, “Pour a bucketful of water on it (i.e., on the effected area).” He (saw) then said, “Verily, you were sent only to make matters easy, and you were not sent to make matters difficult.”

[Related by Tirmidhi, 147, Ahmad 2/239. Tirmidhi said, "This hadith is Hasan Saheeh". Ahmad Shaakir (7254) said, "Its chain is authentic."]

Hadith 3:

And the following is in another naration:

After he understood [the wrong which he had done], the Bedouin said, “The Prophet (saw) stood before me – may my mother and father be ransom for him – and he (saw) neither sursed nor scolded nor hit [me]“

[Related by Ahmad 2/503. Ahmad Shaakir (10540) said, "Its chain is authentic."]

Source: http://theauthenticbase.wordpress.co...in-the-masjid/

 

[Danah]

I strongly recommend reading this book of Mohammad Al Munajjid "the prophetic methods in correcting people's mistakes":

http://www.protectedpearl.com/Books/en_Correcting_People_Mistakes.pdf

 

[selsebil]

Assalaam Alaikum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuh,
While it is obligatory that all attributes of all Muslims are Muslim, outwardly it is not always thus. Similarly, not all the attributes of all infidels have to be infidel and to arise from their unbelief. So too, all the attributes of all sinners do not always have to be sinful and have arisen from their sinfulness.