The infallibility of The Prophet (pbuh)

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Asalaamu Alaikum,

See what he says, very related to this thread and it's pretty good, maybe someone might see wisdom in it -

 
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Either he was fallible and made mistakes, or he was infallible and many of the hadiths accredited to him are false because they contain blatant scientific errors.

Ahadith do not contain any scientific error. Rather it is the science and human experience that is in error. Science often takes a U-turn and what you may consider as true now might be proved as wrong later.
Whatever Rasulullah Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam said is cent percent true. There can never be even an iota of doubt in the saying of Rasulullah :saws1:

If he was infallible then the only way to know which are true/false is again to use objective facts.

So it seems to me that whichever is true you are in a position where you need to use objectivity and factual evidence to live your life.
What do you define as objective facts? Human experience and experiments can never be considered as objective facts. These are all subject to change any time. Only the words of Allah and His Messenger is the objective fact which are True and applicable universally.


We have a separate science for distinguishing the Authentic Ahadith from weaker ones. 'Ilm ar-Rijaal is one requisite for it. Ahadith are not judged by the experience and experiments of mankind.


Reply to the OP:

The Ahadith you quoted only mention that there was a decline in the yield. It is entirely possible that there are hidden benefits in not grafting the trees which the science has not discovered yet.
 
Ahadith do not contain any scientific error.

Oh wow, I don't know whether you are joking or not?

Sahih Muslim Bk 1, Number 0299:
Abu Dharr reported: I entered the mosque and the Messenger of
Allah (may peace be upon him) was sitting there. When the sun
disappeared (from the sight) he said: O Abu Dharr! Do you know
where it goes? He (the narrator) said: Allah and His Apostle
know best. He (the Holy Prophet) said. Verily it goes and begs
permission, for prostration (to Allah) and the permission is
granted to it. Once it would be said: Return to the place
whence you came, and then it would rise from its setting
place. Then he, after the recitation of 'Abdullah recited it:
And that is its appointed term.

This is clearly incorrect.
 
Sahih Muslim Bk 1, Number 0299: Abu Dharr reported: I entered the mosque and the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) was sitting there. When the sun disappeared (from the sight) he said: O Abu Dharr! Do you know where it goes? He (the narrator) said: Allah and His Apostle know best. He (the Holy Prophet) said. Verily it goes and begs permission, for prostration (to Allah) and the permission is granted to it. Once it would be said: Return to the place whence you came, and then it would rise from its setting place. Then he, after the recitation of 'Abdullah recited it: And that is its appointed term. This is clearly incorrect.


No, it is not incorrect. These are from the matters of the un-seen. The sun does prostrate in front of Rabbul 'Aalameen and begs for permission, as does the moon and other heavenly bodies, but you don't perceive it. What you see is only the rotation of earth around the sun. How can you know of the matters of un-seen when your sight is limited, your senses are limited, your understanding is limited, your intelligence is limited and your resources are limited?

I explained this in another thread recently. Your example and the scientists example is like an un-born baby inside a mother's womb, trying to find the evidence for mountains, trees and birds. How can an un-born baby find evidence for light, sky and air when all that it sees is just fluid and darkness? Unless it comes out of its place, the baby can never find these things. Similarly, you cannot understand the matters of un-seen unless you exit this place (the world) and enter your graves (the opening of Hereafter).
The one whom Allah has shown these un-seen matters has informed us and we believe in him :saws1: for he was As-Sadiq and Al-Amin. Even idolaters used to call him by that title.
 
In this Hadith Muhammad refers to the setting Sun and asks if his companion knows where it goes. Then tells him it goes somewhere until given permission to rise again, at which point it does.

I have two possible scenarios I can choose from.

1: The sun goes somewhere every 24 hours. Nobody perceives that it has gone there, not even the people on the opposite side of the globe from Mecca who are looking at it. It stays there until Allah tells it to leave just in time for sunrise in Mecca, again nobody on the other side of the globe sees it leave this place.

Based on recorded history we know that just about everyone at the time thought that the Earth was flat and therefore the Sun is either with us giving daylight or is somewhere we can't see it; and also they thought that the Sun orbited the Earth and therefore it is the Sun that goes somewhere each night and stays there until the next morning.

With this factual evidence of historical beliefs there is the much more simple 2nd choice

2: Muhammad got it wrong just like everyone else.

With evidence suggesting 2 and none suggesting 1 why would I choose 1 unless I was biased and had to choose it in order to continue believing something I want to be true? How can I choose 1 and claim I am being objective?
 
Peace of greetings TheRationalizer
"In this Hadith Muhammad"

I would just like to inform since you are on a "Islaamic" forum, as muslims we refer to the Prophet Muhammad saying "peace and blessings upon him" after every time his name is mentioned, and so the same for every prophet of God allmighty e.g. Moses, Jesus, Abraham etc etc. Could you, if you do not mind please be respectful towards our beliefs,please i would appreciate it very much.

Thank you very much me and other members would be grateful also and i do not mean to sound harsh.

peace
 
Rationalizer - this is written in Ma'ariful Quraan about the hadith you bring up:
Respected writers, who have taken the Hadith in terms of its apparent sense, have laid down three probabilities concerning the setting:

(1) That it may refer to the setting in the main part of populated areas, that is, of a place the setting of the sun where it holds good for its setting for the
majority of the population of the world;

(2) that it be the setting of the Equator; or

(3) the setting on the horizon of Madinah. Thus, the difficulty that the setting and rising of the sun is a phenomenon which keeps manifesting itself all the time, every moment, does not remain there, because this Hadith is talking about the setting of a particular horizon.

And when it stands clarified from the statements of the Qur'an and Sunnah that the Divine Throne, the 'Arsh of the Rahman, surrounds all heavens and stars and surfaces, it is already obvious that the sun is nowhere but under the 'Arsh, at all times and at every place. And when experience bears out that the time the sun is setting at one place, it is also rising at another. Therefore, no moment of the sun is free of either rising or setting. Thus, the being of the sun under the 'Arsh is also perennial under all states and so is its setting and rising. Therefore, the outcome of the subject mentioned in the Hadith is that the sun, in its entire orbit, remains in the state of prostration (Sajdah) before Allah under the 'Arsh, that is, it moves under His permission and command.


 
Islam QA have this to say (would post a link but I'm not allowed :( ):

Fourthly: mistakes which are committed unintentionally are of two types:
With regard to worldly matters: this happened to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). With regard to agriculture, medicine, carpentry, etc., he was like all other people. Allaah did not tell us that he was sent to us as a businessman or a farmer or a carpenter or a doctor. His mistakes in these fields are quite natural and do not impact on his Message at all.
It was reported that Raafi’ ibn Khudayj said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to Madeenah, and they were pollinating the date-palms. He said, “What are you doing?” They said, “We always used to pollinate them.” He said, “Perhaps if you do not do that, it will be better.” So they did not do it, and the harvest was lacking. They mentioned that to him, and he said, “I am only a human being like you. If I tell you to do something with regard to religion, then follow it, but if I tell you to do something based on my own opinion, I am only a human being.” (narrated by Muslim, 2361).
We note that the Messenger (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made a mistake in this worldly matter, because he was like all other human beings, but with regard to matters of religion he did not make mistakes.
 
Mr rationalizer, how are you? Here is some rational the Prophet Mohammad sws was in religious matters innfallible at made no mistake so the rational is if you do not beleive this you are not a muslim, so your knocking on the wrong door discussing that with muslims. The arans were atronomers they used the stars to find their way and the moon to tell the date and the sun to tell the time, all very accuratly. Im sure they were all well aware we couldnt see the sun prostrate the same was asked to Imam Ahmad about how Allah swt could be at the lowest heaven each day before fajr when the sun rises at different times all over the world, he said the one going into these maters is commiting bidah Allah does not abide by the rules of science science abids by the rules of Allah as muslim as rational as we are we know Allah can do all things so be have no opinion other than that and we know he understands what we do not, a prophet makes no mistake in revelation and Allah swt makes no mistake period so if we are muslims this is not a topic up for discusion
 
:sl:


Mufti Taqi 'Uthmani explains the Hadith mentioned in the first post in his book, The Authority of the Sunnah:



The Prophetic Authority in Worldly Affairs

Another point of view often presented by some westernised circles is that the authority of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is, no doubt, established by the Holy Qur’ân even for all the generations for all times to come; But, the scope of this authority is limited only to the doctrinal affairs and the matters of worship. The function of a prophet, according to them, is restricted to correct the doctrinal beliefs of the ummah and to teach them how to worship Allâh. As far as the worldly affairs are concerned, they are not governed by the prophetic authority. These worldly affairs include, in their view, all the economic, social and political affairs which should be settled according to the expediency at each relevant time, and the Prophetic authority has no concern with them. Even if the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) gives some directions in these fields, he does so in his private capacity, and not as a Messenger. So, it is not necessary for the ummah to comply with such directions.

To substantiate this proposition, a particular tradition of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is often quoted, though out of context, in which he said to his companions:

"You know more about your worldly affairs".

Before I quote this tradition in its full context, the very concept upon which this proposition is based needs examination.

In fact, this view is based on a serious misconception about the whole structure of the Islâmic order.

The misconception is that Islâm, like some other religions, is restricted only to some doctrines and some rituals. It has no concern with the day-to-day affairs of the human life. After observing the prescribed doctrines and rituals, everybody is free to run his life in whatever way he likes, not hindered in any manner by the divine imperatives. That is why the advocates of this view confine the Prophetic authority to some doctrines and rituals only.

But, the misconception, however fashionable it may seem to be, is a misconception. It is an established fact that Islâm, unlike some other religions which can coincide and co-exist with the secular concept of life, is not merely a set of doctrines and rituals. It is a complete way of life which deals with the political, economic and social problems as well as with theological issues. The Holy Qur’ân says,

"O those who believe, respond to the call of Allâh and His Messenger when he calls you for what gives you life". (8:24)

It means that Allâh and His Messenger call people towards life. How is it imagined that the affairs of life are totally out of the jurisdiction of Allâh and His Messenger? Nobody who has studied the Holy Qur’ân can endorse that its teachings are limited to worship and rituals. There are specific injunctions in the Holy Qur’ân about sale, purchase loans, mortgage, partnership, penal laws, inheritance, matrimonial relations, political affairs, problems of war and peace and other aspects of international relations. If the Islâmic teachings were limited to the doctrinal and ritual matters, there is no reason why such injunctions are mentioned in the Holy Qur’ân.

Likewise the sunnah of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) deals with the economic, social, political and legal problems in such detail that voluminous books have been written to compile them. How can it be envisaged that the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) entered this field in such detailed manner without having any authority or jurisdiction? The injunctions of the Holy Qur’ân and sunnah in this field are so absolute, imperative and of mandatory nature that they cannot be imagined to be personal advices lacking any legal force.

We have already quoted a large number of verses from the Holy Qur’ân which enjoin the obedience of Allâh and the Messenger (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) upon the believers. This “obedience” has nowhere been limited to some particular field. It is an all-embracing obedience which requires total submission from the believers, having no exception whatsoever.

It is true that in this field, which is termed in the Islâmic law as “mu’âmalât” the Holy Qur’ân and sunnah have mostly given some broad principles and left most of the details open to be settled according to ever-changing needs, but in strict conformity with the principles laid down by them. Thus the field not occupied by the Qur’ân and sunnah is a wider field where the requirements of expediency can well play their role. But it does not mean that the Qur’ân and sunnah have no concern with this vital branch of human life which has always been the basic cause of unrest in the history of humanity, and in which the so-called “rational views” mostly conflicting with each other, have always fallen prey to satanic desires leading the world to disaster.

Anyhow, the fallacy of this narrow viewpoint about Islâm which excludes all the practical spheres of life from its pale, rather, to be more correct, makes them devoid of its guidance, cannot sustain before the overwhelming arguments which stand to rule it out totally.


The Event of Fecundation of the Palm-Trees

Let me now turn to the tradition which is often quoted to support this fallacious view. The details of the tradition are as follows:

The Arabs of Madînah used to fecundate their palm-trees in order to make them more fruitful. This operation was called ta’bîr which is explained by E. W. Lane (Arabic English Lexicon) as below:

“He fecundated a palm-tree by means of the spadix of the male tree, which is bruised or brayed, and sprinkled upon the spadix of the female; or by inserting a stalk of a raceme of the male tree into the spathe of the female, after shaking off the pollen of the former upon the spadix of the female.”

Keeping this in view, read the following tradition, as mentioned by Imâm Muslim in his Sahîh:

The blessed companion Talhâ (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) says:”I passed along with the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) across some people who were on the tops of the palm-trees. The Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) asked, ‘What are they doing?’ Some people said, ‘They are fecundating the tree. They insert the male into the female and the tree stands fecundated.’ The Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said, ‘I do not think it will be of any use.’ The people (who were fecundating the trees) were informed about what the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said. So, they stopped this operation. Then the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) was informed about their withdrawal. On this, the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said, ‘If it is in fact useful for them, let them do it, because I had only made a guess. So, do not cling to me in my guess. But when I tell you something on behalf of Allâh, take it firm, because I shall never tell a lie on behalf of Allâh.”

According to the blessed companion Anas (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam), the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) has also said on this occasion:

"You know more about your worldly affairs".

The words of this tradition, when looked at in its full context, would clearly reveal that the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) in this case did not deliver an absolute prohibition against the fecundation of the palm trees. There was no question of its being lawful or unlawful. What the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) did was neither a command, nor a legal or religious prohibition, nor a moral condemnation. It was not even a serious observation. It was only a remark passed by him by the way in the form of an instant and general guess, as he himself clarified later. “I do not think it will be of any use.” Nobody can take this sentence as a legal or religious observation. That is why the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) did not address with it the persons involved in the operation, nor did he order to convey his message to them. It was through some other persons that they learned about the remark of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam).

Although the remark was not in the form of an imperative, but the blessed companions of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) used to obey and follow him in everything, not only on the basis of his legal or religious authority, but also out of their profound love towards him. They, therefore, gave up the operation altogether. When the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) came to know about their having abstained from the operation on the basis of what he remarked, he clarified the position to avoid any misunderstanding.

The substance of his clarification is that only the absolute statements of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) are binding, because they are given in his capacity of a prophet on behalf of Allâh Almighty. As for a word spoken by him as a personal guess, and not as an absolute statement, it should be duly honoured, but it should not be taken as part of Sharî’ah.

As I have mentioned earlier, there is a vast field in the day-to-day worldly affairs which is not occupied by the Sharî’ah, where the people have been allowed to proceed according to their needs and expedience and on the basis of their knowledge and experience. What instruments should be used to fertilise a barren land? How the plants should be nourished? What weapons are more useful for the purpose of defence? What kind of horses are more suitable to ride? What medicine is useful in a certain disease? The questions of this type relate to the field where the Sharî’ah has not supplied any particular answer. All these and similar other matters are left to the human curiosity which can solve these problems through its efforts.

It is this unoccupied field of mubâhat about which the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) observed:

"You know more about your worldly affairs".

But it does not include those worldly affairs in which the Holy Qur’ân or the Sunnah have laid down some specific rules or given a positive command. That is why the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam), while declaring the matter of the palm-trees to be in the unoccupied field, has simultaneously observed, “But when I tell you something on behalf of Allâh, take it firm.”

The upshot of the foregoing discussion is that the Sunnah of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is the second source of Islâmic law. Whatever the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) said or did in his capacity of a Messenger is binding on the ummah. This authority of the Sunnah is based on the revelation he received from Allâh. Hence, the obedience of the Holy Prophet (Sallallaho Alaihe Wassallam) is another form of the obedience of Allâh. This prophetic authority which is established through a large number of Qur’ânic verses, cannot be curtailed, neither by limiting its tenure, nor by exempting the worldly affairs from its scope".

["The Authority of Sunnah" - Mufti Muhammad Taqi Usmani - http://www.central-mosque.com/fiqh/asunnah1.htm]
 
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