The lebanese demands

[Silver]

Since the year 700 B.C , Lebanon was occupied by various nations :egyptians,greeks,persians,arabs,ottomans,the french,the syrians...and none of them ever managed to fully control the small country.The ottoman sultan was never able to put Lebanon under his control until WW1 and the lebanese encouraged the arabs to revolt which they finally did.
The french were forced out of the country in 1943,the syrians too in 2005 after the assasination of PM Rafik Hariri credited for rebuilding the country.The israelis were also forced out of the country in 2000 by the lebanese resistance (Mostly Hezbollah in the 90's and many other christian/muslim groups before 1990).
This is a country that has a reputation of humiliating its ennemies often stronger than the lebanese...but now the majority here have had enough,we are gonna make it through this war like we always have and the so-called "invincible israeli army" has already suffered a lot of losses,it's not just us...they were surprised by the determination of the lebanese people.But the majority want this to be the final war.This country has suffered so much, more than any other country.And here is what the majority here want:
1-A cease fire.
2-A prisoner exchange
3-An israeli retreat from the Chebaa farms (and a paper form Syria declaring that they are lebanese which the syrians haven't done so far)
4-A UN peace-keeping force on the borders.
5-Hezbollah militants joining the army.
6-A redeployment of the army to defend the borders.
7-A map from Israel indicating the places of the mines containing explosives in southern Lebanon that they left behind in 2000.

And we also wanna sue Israel for destroying the infrastructure and killing 600 civilians (though we know they won't pay).

I'd like to know.What are your opinions on these demands?

 

[KAding]

These demands sound very reasonable.

Do you think either Israel or Hezbollah would agree with them? If not, why not?

 

[Silver]

Hezbollah does agree with those demands because their ministers in the lebanese cabinet voted for these demands which means that they're not against them.
As for Israel,I don't think they will agree on the cease-fire unless it's under their own conditions.They wanna destroy Hezbollah themselves which apparently they can't do.Hezbollah represents from 30 to 40% of the population and they have fork 14 to 17 seats in the parliament,they can't just destroy them...they won't be able to do it.

 

[HeiGou]

Hezbollah does agree with those demands because their ministers in the lebanese cabinet voted for these demands which means that they're not against them.

Well no. It is not beyond any Lebanese politician to vote for something they have no intention of supporting. Perhaps Hezbollah knows these demands will be rejected and so support them because they are painless?

The problems are: 1. prisoner exchanges. Israel should not reward kidnappers as that just encourages more kidnapping. I doubt that Israel holds any Lebanese prisoners who do not deserve it anyway. Those people deserve to remain in jail. 2. Letting Hezbollah join the Army means that the Army will become Hezbollah as it is mainly Shia anyway. I suppose that the Lebanese could live with that and any coup would be 10 to 15 years away anyway. But deploying it to the border means deploying Hezbollah to the border. Which gets no one anywhere.

The solution to this problem is in the hands of the Lebanese. They will have to decide if they want peace with Israel or more war. If they want peace they have to restrain terrorist groups who operate from within Lebanon.

 

[Silver]

Letring hezbollah join the army means that hezbollah will be disarmed,and the army is under the command of Genearl Michel Suleiman ,he decides along with other generals when to start a war and he's a christian.The army is also controlled by the government so no,it won't be the same

 

[HeiGou]

Letring hezbollah join the army means that hezbollah will be disarmed,and the army is under the command of Genearl Michel Suleiman ,he decides along with other generals when to start a war and he's a christian.The army is also controlled by the government so no,it won't be the same

Since when did they disarm people who join the Army? Surely it means that either they will get their own units (i.e. renaming Hezbollah units as the 43rd (or whatever) Regiment of the Lebanese Army) or they will be merged into the larger Lebanese Army into existing units as individuals. Either way the Lebanese Army will become much more pious - the Shah of Iran tried to conscript Mullahs but found they simply preached to the soldiers and in the end the Army became more pious and refused to defend the Shah. Generals think they decide such things but in the real world they only do so if the soldiers agree. Lebanon is going to opt to run the risk of going the same way as the Shah of Iran, but as I said it will take a few years.

 

[Moshe]

Israel is always to blame right? I mean for goodness sakes look at the productivity and growth being developed in israel it's unsurmountable.

Funny thing is, when you look at google earth and see Israel and it's well developed fields and land, and on the other side the lebanese thirld world infrastructure then will you realize the real problem is POVERTY and with that comes hate for the people who have more then you (Israel).

 

[Silver]

Israel is always to blame right? I mean for goodness sakes look at the productivity and growth being developed in israel it's unsurmountable.

Funny thing is, when you look at google earth and see Israel and it's well developed fields and land, and on the other side the lebanese thirld world infrastructure then will you realize the real problem is POVERTY and with that comes hate for the people who have more then you (Israel).

First of all,I'd like to tell u that I don't hate the israelis.I even speak to israelis on MSN and i'm lebanese!our countries are at war!
I am against Israel's policy here.
And by the way our infrastructure isn't as bad as you think and 1.6 million tourists were coming here cos it's a beautiful country.There were already 600 000 tourists here in June.

 

[Silver]

No the root of the problem is Arabs and the sooner the you realize that the better. Israel has been under constant attack by islamic militant from the day it became a state and that is just not acceptable.

Israel has all the given right to defend it's citizen at whatever cost and it's doing so by making hezbollah an example for the whole arab world.

We'll never agree on that.I have a different point a vue and i won't change it and u won't change yours.But I'd like to know your opinionn about the lebanese demands.

 

[Moshe]

I agree with the two points you made 4 and 6, the rest isn't going to happen as long as ehud olmert is in power.

The prisoner exchange isn't going to happen because Israel does not deal with terrorists. and the ceasefire is impossible now because we started the job so were going to have to end it.

And as for the Hezbollah after this war hopefully they will be in such a weakened position they will be insignficant.

 

[Silver]

Someone on the internet told me that they haven't heard of it in israel but Hassan Nasrallah has agreed that the government negocitiates ,not Hezbollah.U haven't heard of that?
And form 400 to 600 civilians were killed here and infrastructure even in the north where there aren't really any hezbollah supporters and no militants have been hit.What do u think of that?

 

[Moshe]

Lara? Your looking for every excuse under the sun to point the blame on Israel. Israel isn't looking to kill civilians but in a war civilians die and that's a bloody fact we can not change.

Israel's goal is simple. We are a economically vibrant, retain the 5th strongest army in the world and have a multicultural landscape.

However Israel has always had one problem and that's security!!! All we want is to live in peace without thinking if were going to die from a katyusha missile or a suicide bomber.

Is that too much to ask for.

 

[Silver]

No it's not,we wanna live in peace just like you do.But the families of the civilians getting killed especially in Palestine will hate Israel even more wether u think the IDF killed them by mistake or not.

 

[afriend]

Lara? Your looking for every excuse under the sun to point the blame on Israel. Israel isn't looking to kill civilians but in a war civilians die and that's a bloody fact we can not change.

Israel's goal is simple. We are a economically vibrant, retain the 5th strongest army in the world and have a multicultural landscape.

However Israel has always had one problem and that's security!!! All we want is to live in peace without thinking if were going to die from a katyusha missile or a suicide bomber.

Is that too much to ask for.

Who's your daddy?

Seriously, answer the question.....

You brag about being the 5th strongest army in the world......Who's your daddy? (I know it sounds dumb, but still...It gets to the point!)

You brag about good agriculture etc. Who's land are you sitting in, eh?

If it wasn't for the Americans, and the British in WWII, you'd be nothing, so you have nothing to brag about......You owe everything you have to those two countries, I happen to be living in both of them.........

Those demands are reasonable enough if both parties would have a cease fire for just a small time span....

 

[Kittygyal]

We are confident that we can defeat the Arabs in warfare, history has proven that in every(3 major wars) encounter Israel has had with Arabs it has defeated them and done it very quickly.

However Israel does have a weakness and thats terrorist organizations be it hamas, hezbollah or whatever. When we fight them our winning rate is never good however we will perservere as the best as we possibly can.

so your up for a fight with hamas, hezbollah ?? :rollseyes

 

[afriend]

We are confident that we can defeat the Arabs in warfare, history has proven that in every(3 major wars) encounter Israel has had with Arabs it has defeated them and done it very quickly.

However Israel does have a weakness and thats terrorist organizations be it hamas, hezbollah or whatever. When we fight them our winning rate is never good however we will perservere as the best as we possibly can.

You make me laugh....the way you brag on about it, thinking it was YOU who did it....But no! Of course not, it was all 110% by the backing of the US.....So you know, they deserve to brag, not you.....And don't even think abut going against that statement, you might anger the Americans, and then they might stop funding your Amry/country......So watch out, make sure you all remain slaves, for the rest of your lives......From Fearow until even today, you always have been, and always will be in the debt of other nations/people......

 

[Moshe]

Who's your daddy?

Seriously, answer the question.....

You brag about being the 5th strongest army in the world......Who's your daddy? (I know it sounds dumb, but still...It gets to the point!)

You brag about good agriculture etc. Who's land are you sitting in, eh?

If it wasn't for the Americans, and the British in WWII, you'd be nothing, so you have nothing to brag about......You owe everything you have to those two countries, I happen to be living in both of them.........

Those demands are reasonable enough if both parties would have a cease fire for just a small time span....

Excuse me? America only donor 3 billion dollars annually into Israel and thats strictly for artilleries. Besides in America Jewish people dominate it's economy and i think the 3 billion dollars is the least they can do for us considering we have hostile arabs surrounding our borders.

America is a beautiful country, however the amount of funding Jewish people put into political parties over there, we decide who "we" want their president to be.

I mean we allow the American people to vote because you cant take away democracy but democracy has loop holes that can be manipulated very nicely.

See you fund two political parties who have "Pro Israeli" views and get them to be the two leading candidates to battle off for the presidency.

We dont care who wins, we still win because both a pro israel.

 

[afriend]

See? You can't stand on your own two feet, you always require the help of some other powerful nation......You are also very scheeming and very crook like.......interfering with another county's politics, shame on you......

You know what? Go find a home, and some limbs too.....

 

[Fishman]

However Israel has always had one problem and that's security!!!

I know how you feel. Those Plalestinian olive trees are downright scary. And I'm so sorry that kids armed with vicious, deadly rocks have been pounding your poor defenceless millitary installations for years. And all Israel did to provoke them was take over their land, level their villages and cause large amounts of anti-Arab racism.

If King Zurg of Mars came down and took over most of your country, kicking you out into poverty, wouldn't you want to to form a resistance and fire rockets at him?

Also, I don't like your attitude to Arabs. I don't hate Jews, and most of the people on this forum don't. We just hate Israel as a country. You, Moshe, on the other hand, seem to think that the Arabs are the problem. The most famous Israeli on the board, Lavikor, doesn't harbour such racist views. In fact, the only Jews I've seen who think that the Arabs are the problem are a few Israeli extremists, such as Sharon. The problem, according to most of the Israelis that I've seen expose their views, is Arab terrorism, not the Arabs in general.

 

[afriend]

I know how you feel. Those Plalestinian olive trees are downright scary. And I'm so sorry that kids armed with vicious, deadly rocks have been pounding your poor defenceless millitary installations for years. And all Israel did to provoke them was take over their land, level their villages and cause large amounts of anti-Arab racism.

If King Zurg of Mars came down and took over most of your country, kicking you out into poverty, wouldn't you want to to form a resistance and fire rockets at him?

Also, I don't like your attitude to Arabs. I don't hate Jews, and most of the people on this forum don't. We just hate Israel as a country. You, Moshe, on the other hand, seem to think that the Arabs are the problem. The most famous Israeli on the board, Lavikor, doesn't harbour such racist views. In fact, the only Jews I've seen who think that the Arabs are the problem are a few Israeli extremists, such as Sharon. The problem, according to most of the Israelis that I've seen expose their views, is Arab terrorism, not the Arabs in general.

All makes just too much sense to me....

I can rep Lavikor a hundred times as he doesn't turn to racism/anti-Arab comments/insults.

Also, he always has a logical point......