The Map Of UNITED STATES OF ISLAM!!!

[wth1257]

Sorry bro, but I dont appreciate someone associating imperfect Muslims such as ourselves, with Islam! Please don't do it. If u ever considered, do it cuz of Islam for Allah not cuz of us...

Peace

I thought the Ummah was an essential part of the religion theologically?

 

[wth1257]

They live as the Jewish maimondes lived under Islamic rule!

atheists are dhimmi now?

 

[جوري]

atheists are dhimmi now?

what is your question? I can't infer anything from your above fragment!

cheers

 

[جوري]

I said I was leaving this thread, but I changed my mind

Typical

You woulden't be able to vote, mary anyone outside your race, or in this case religion, you'd face preasure from the Ku Klux Klan, or lynched, you would enjoy, be fact of the situation little to no legal protection under the law.

Again, you don't know enough about me to know where I'd or wouldn't fit!

I don't need to see you, I assume your a Muslims, as your profile says, and anyone outside of certian protestant Christian sects woulden't have much fun.

So?

Like Armenians under the Otoman Empire?

Maybe you should read about that from the other end?.. but No, not like the ottomans, like the Rashidun, Umayyads, Abbasids, Fatimids, the Ommayads.. or do you conveniently want to sweep the age of reason of the Muslim empires for the age of darkness of Europe?

Religious minorities rarey fair well under religious law, there are exceptions, Jews did preaty well under Muslim Spain, but those governmenats are run by men, and are made up of imperfect people.

That is your opinion. History isn't composed of opinions!


cheers

 

[wth1257]

Typical

:-[

Again, you don't know enough about me to know where I'd or wouldn't fit!

Alright, life was tough for every non WASP in Mississippi during those times except you, the Knlan would take one look and say, "hazzah! We hate every non WASP in the world who comes to our beloved mississippi except you, we love you yay!"

Then candy would fall from the sky:X

So?

so you woulden't have fun in mississippi at the time:?

Maybe you should read about that from the other end?..

The end where Armenians and other religious minorities wern't second class citizins?

Where exactly would this end be?

but No, not like the ottomans, like the Rashidun, Umayyads, Abbasids, Fatimids, the Ommayads.. or do you conveniently want to sweep the age of reason of the Muslim empires for the age of darkness of Europe?

Sure, life for Jews, Christians, etc was much better under Muslim rule, generally, than under religious minorities faced under Christian rule.

Life for a black man in 1930's Alabama was also much better than life for a Jewish man in 1939 Poleland, however neither is ideal.

That is your opinion. History isn't composed of opinions!

What is my oppinion? Would yo like to point to a theocracy where religious minorities lived fantastic lives of total equality with the rulling religions people?

cheers

cheers to you to

 

[wth1257]

what is your question? I can't infer anything from your above fragment!

cheers

you said atheists/secular people would live as Jewish maimondes, I was asking if atheists were protected people under shariah law?

 

[جوري]

:-[

Alright, life was tough for every non WASP in Mississippi during those times except you, the Knlan would take one look and say, "hazzah! We hate every non WASP in the world who comes to our beloved mississippi except you, we love you yay!"

Then candy would fall from the sky:X

and again I ask you, how would you know I don't come from a long line of non-practicing wasps for instance?!

so you woulden't have fun in mississippi at the time:?

we have strayed so far off course, I have no idea where you are going with this

The end where Armenians and other religious minorities wern't second class citizins?

The Turks have a different account for what actually took place! under either circumstance, I don't see how living in the so-called free world is any different, can you tell me Muslim girls wanting a modest dress for school are allowed their religious freedoms in a 'progessive' country such as France for instance? People are people, and many racist people make nations!

Where exactly would this end be?

End of what?

Sure, life for Jews, Christians, etc was much better under Muslim rule, generally, than under religious minorities faced under Christian rule.

Glad we have found common grounds!

Life for a black man in 1930's Alabama was also much better than life for a Jewish man in 1939 Poleland, however neither is ideal.

We won't know of ideal until the entire human race under-goes similar lobotomies.. however, there is close enough to the ideal.. even in a so-called democratic system (which isn't unlike an Islamic shura system) minus the secular laws, not every one is happy.. in fact I dare say, half the country here in the good old U S of A is vexed with the current admin and events!

What is my oppinion? Would yo like to point to a theocracy where religious minorities lived fantastic lives of total equality with the rulling religions people?

How about we do it this way.. point me to a democracy where religious minorities lived fantastic lives of equality with the ruling non-religious people!

cheers to you to

sayonara

 

[جوري]

you said atheists/secular people would live as Jewish maimondes, I was asking if atheists were protected people under shariah law?

Sure why wouldn't they? in fact the state we speak off that will be established under Jesus P will abolish jizyah.. I just have my doubts that there will be that many atheists left considering the evolution of events... unless they are cocooned for protection in an underground retreat and miss the whole shebang?

peace

 

[wth1257]

Iand again I ask you, how would you know I don't come from a long line of non-practicing wasps for instance?!

:?

So did a woman I know before she became Catholic, however when her neighboor held his Klan rallies, they sure as hell had to lock the doors and windows and hide

Your background and history is irrelivent, your a Muslim would woulden't have had much fun I don't think, unless you managed to totally disguise your religion.

we have strayed so far off course, I have no idea where you are going with this

me neither:-[

The Turks have a different account for what actually took place!

Your talking about the genocide, I'm talking about the centuries leading up to that where they were, by shariah law, second class citizens.

under either circumstance, I don't see how living in the so-called free world is any different, can you tell me Muslim girls wanting a modest dress for school are allowed their religious freedoms in a 'progessive' country such as France for instance?

I'm friend with a few Muslim girls, all wear head scarves, none have problems. France is wrong, so is Turkey. IMHO anyway

People are people, and many racist people make nations!

And legalized inferiority under the law only invites further abuse

Glad we have found common grounds!


We won't know of ideal until the entire human race under-goes similar lobotomies.. however, there is close enough to the ideal.. even in a so-called democratic system (which isn't unlike an Islamic shura system) minus the secular laws, not every one is happy.. in fact I dare say, half the country here in the good old U S of A is vexed with the current admin and events!

And they can move, or change the government. Under the global domination he is sdvocating there is no excape for us non-Muslims, if the Saudi people want Chariah law, then so long as their people can leave at will I don't care, that's their buisness, but when you want the entire planet under religious law, that is a nightmare with no excape.

I don't see how Shariah law would be simmilar, would you deney that laws contradicting Islam would not be allowed, that non-Muslims would have fewer rights etc?

How about we do it this way.. point me to a democracy where religious minorities lived fantastic lives of equality with the ruling non-religious people!

Catholics, Jews, Muslims, atheists, protestants, pagans, bhuddists, hindu's etc all live equeally under the law in my state:?

sayonara

What doe that mean?

 

[جوري]

:?

So did a woman I know before she became Catholic, however when her neighboor held his Klan rallies, they sure as hell had to lock the doors and windows and hide

Your background and history is irrelivent, your a Muslim would woulden't have had much fun I don't think, unless you managed to totally disguise your religion.

I am highly versatile indeed!

me neither:-[

Your talking about the genocide, I'm talking about the centuries leading up to that where they were, by shariah law, second class citizens.

That isn't true, you really need to read proper history and no go by sweeping sterotypes.. read about the history of visigoths.. many people considered Muslims to be liberators not the oppressors!

I'm friend with a few Muslim girls, all wear head scarves, none have problems. France is wrong, so is Turkey. IMHO anyway

Turkey isn't an Islamic state, and Islam isn't responsible for how a mainly viking like turkey understood Islam to be, any more than it is responsible for how the Mongols understood Islam to be.. The Muslim world was seized by genghis khan and later his grandson converted to Islam.. we can't help it if savagery and barbarism is in their blood.. You can only hope when they do convert they become the best Muslims, often times people aren't..

Let's say, you've had a heroin addiction before you became Muslim, and
plainly doing drugs goes against Islamic teaching, but, you find it hard to kick your habit, or do for the sake of your religion find it difficult and then revert to your old ways, on the account it is something your body has grown accustomed to.. Should Islam and Muslims take credit for how you are as an individual?

And legalized inferiority under the law only invites further abuse

Show me one law in Islam that legalizes inferiority then!

And they can move, or change the government. Under the global domination he is sdvocating there is no excape for us non-Muslims, if the Saudi people want Chariah law, then so long as their people can leave at will I don't care, that's their buisness, but when you want the entire planet under religious law, that is a nightmare with no excape.

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, I don't know if you have noticed.. true khilafah runs on a shura system.. there is a counsel and people vote yes even women!

I don't see how Shariah law would be simmilar, would you deney that laws contradicting Islam would not be allowed, that non-Muslims would have fewer rights etc?

You are painting with wide brush strokes, I have no idea how to attempt a reply to that.. merely since it doesn't actually merit one!

Catholics, Jews, Muslims, atheists, protestants, pagans, bhuddists, hindu's etc all live equeally under the law in my state:?

You'd be a fool if you averted your eyes to a very real and existing cast system.. It doesn't have to be Indian style pariahs or brahmins.. but one really does exist.. and not just in term of religion/race/creed but even between the sexes.. and on the highest levels.. You apply for a job as a female Intensivist for an ICU in any affluent hospital and see if you rake up the same salary as your male counterpart.. which they often justify under the guise of, women simply don't work as many hours, taking time for childbirth, breastfeeding etc

What doe that mean?

it means ciao

 

[wth1257]

I am highly versatile indeed!

:?

That isn't true, you really need to read proper history and no go by sweeping sterotypes.. read about the history of visigoths.. many people considered Muslims to be liberators not the oppressors!

Sure, and again, I think most, besides crazy right wing nuts, would admit that religious minorities under Islamic law generally had a much better time than under Christian theocracies.

However, Religious minorities, as I understand it, are still not equals. For instance not being able to testify aghinst Muslims in court, as always I am perfectly willing to be proven wrong.

Turkey isn't an Islamic state, and Islam isn't responsible for how a mainly viking like turkey understood Islam to be, any more than it is responsible for how the Mongols understood Islam to be..

:?

I never said Turkey was, I think most people would consider the Ottoman empire as an Islamic state, however.

The Muslim world was seized by genghis khan and later his grandson converted to Islam.. we can't help it if savagery and barbarism is in their blood.. You can only hope when they do convert they become the best Muslims, often times people aren't..

I don't know what this relates to:?

Let's say, you've had a heroin addiction before you became Muslim, and plainly doing drugs goes against Islamic teaching, but, you find it hard to kick your habit, or do for the sake of your religion find it difficult and then revert to your old ways, on the account it is something your body has grown accustomed to.. Should Islam and Muslims take credit for how you are as an individual?

alright

Show me one law in Islam that legalizes inferiority then!

:?

I don't know of one set body of doctrin that IS shariah law, in most places that have had it however, we see inferiority of woman, non-muslims not being allowed to testify aghinst Muslims in court, not allowed to cary weapons, not allowed to ride atop a horse, etc

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy, I don't know if you have noticed.. true khilafah runs on a shura system.. there is a counsel and people vote yes even women!

:?

alright

If the people of South Dakota want to live under Shariah law that's fine with me so long as people are free to leave and they don't force it on others

You are painting with wide brush strokes, I have no idea how to attempt a reply to that.. merely since it doesn't actually merit one!

I think we both are.

Look, name an Islamic State that you would say embodies Shariah law, and we'll look at it.

You'd be a fool if you averted your eyes to a very real and existing cast system..

Cast system is a bit strong, I would agrea that there is de facto inequality in American society, that is significantly different from institutionalized, legal inequality.

It doesn't have to be Indian style pariahs or brahmins.. but one really does exist.. and not just in term of religion/race/creed but even between the sexes.. and on the highest levels.. You apply for a job as a female Intensivist for an ICU in any affluent hospital and see if you rake up the same salary as your male counterpart.. which they often justify under the guise of, women simply don't work as many hours, taking time for childbirth, breastfeeding etc[/QUOTE]

Sure, however that is something that can, and likely in the future, will be corrected, much different than the state mandating that employers MUST pay women less.

 

[جوري]

Sure, and again, I think most, besides crazy right wing nuts, would admit that religious minorities under Islamic law generally had a much better time than under Christian theocracies.

However, Religious minorities, as I understand it, are still not equals. For instance not being able to testify aghinst Muslims in court, as always I am perfectly willing to be proven wrong.

Says who? the sword of Ali ibn Abbi talib was stolen by a Jew once, and even though it bore his name, he couldn't bring witness to the theft, that the judge ruled in the Jew' favor.. It is so predictable what the lot of you come up with, it gets boring after a while!

I never said Turkey was, I think most people would consider the Ottoman empire as an Islamic state, however.

Started off that way, then deranged.. and I don't wish to get into the history of that from robbing Egypt and Syria of their local armies, scientists and artisans.. so when the Brits invaded and divided, they were left eay prey.. that isn't how a Muslim empire should function that isn't in accordance to shari3a law..

I don't know what this relates to:?

Ok

alright

Ok yet again

:?

I don't know of one set body of doctrin that IS shariah law, in most places that have had it however, we see inferiority of woman, non-muslims not being allowed to testify aghinst Muslims in court, not allowed to cary weapons, not allowed to ride atop a horse, etc

What the hell are you talking about? This is the sort of crap you should pull on another site one that fosters inferior quality knowledge, for starters don't speak on behalf of Muslim women least of which under shari3a law..

:?

alright

If the people of South Dakota want to live under Shariah law that's fine with me so long as people are free to leave and they don't force it on others

you are starting to confabulate.. and I hate wasting my time on nonesense!

I think we both are.

Look, name an Islamic State that you would say embodies Shariah law, and we'll look at it.

There are none.. as prophecized

the Prophet (saws) said "The Prophethood will remain among you for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will lift it when He wishes to, then it will be a Khilafah Rashidah (Rightly Guided) on the method of the Prophethood, it will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will lift it if He wishes, then it will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if he wishes, then it will be a tyrannical rule, and it will remain so for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes, then it will be a Khilafah on the method of the Prophethood, then he kept silent."

Sure, however that is something that can, and likely in the future, will be corrected, much different than the state mandating that employers MUST pay women less.

Because you have said so? Let's stop wasting each other' time

cheers

 

[north_malaysian]

I wonder why Malaysia, Brunei and Indonesia are not included in the border? Maybe..because we're not important

 

[wth1257]

Says who?

It's been in several Muslims states and I have heard that it is conventional in Shariah law, if I'm wrong please just correct me, simple as that:?

the sword of Ali ibn Abbi talib was stolen by a Jew once, and even though it bore his name, he couldn't bring witness to the theft, that the judge ruled in the Jew' favor.. It is so predictable what the lot of you come up with, it gets boring after a while!

What lot would that be?

Started off that way, then deranged.. and I don't wish to get into the history of that from robbing Egypt and Syria of their local armies, scientists and artisans.. so when the Brits invaded and divided, they were left eay prey.. that isn't how a Muslim empire should function that isn't in accordance to shari3a law..

is there a set text I could read that specifically spells out the specifics of the law?

Ok




Ok yet again

glad we are in agreament:exhausted

What the hell are you talking about? This is the sort of crap you should pull on another site one that fosters inferior quality knowledge, for starters don't speak on behalf of Muslim women least of which under shari3a law..

I'm talking about the experiences of non-Muslims under Shariah law:?

you are starting to confabulate.. and I hate wasting my time on nonesense!

I'm not confabulating, I said if the people of Saudi Arabia want Shariah law that is fine with me so long as people are free to leave, my objection comes when people want global Islamic law.

You objected to Saudi Arabia, saying it was a monarchy not an Islamic state, I would not disagrea, my point in refrencing South Dakota was that it dosen't matter what land mass you choose, I just picked Saudi Arabia because of the popular association they have with Shariah law.

Let's pretend this is logic class

For any 'x' if x wants a system of governemtn 'y' such that 'y' is a system of Shariah law, and for any 'z' if 'z' wants to leave 'y', then'y' does nothign to prevent 'z', then, for any 'w' such that 'w' is the desire of 'x' to impliment 'z', I have no problem with 'w'.

clear it up?

not exactly proper transcript but it'll do




[QUOTE[There are none.. as prophecized[/QUOTE]

There has NEVER, even under the Prophet MUhammed, been a government properly implimenting Shariah law?

Because you have said so? Let's stop wasting each other' time

cheers

It's not my oppinion that institutionalized discrimination is different from de facto discrimination.

 

[Fishman]

Turkey isn't an Islamic state, and Islam isn't responsible for how a mainly viking like turkey understood Islam to be, any more than it is responsible for how the Mongols understood Islam to be

Turks are not Vikings! :enough!:

Turks are a central asian nomadic people from the lands to the northwest of China. They migrated westwards, conquering lands as the went. When their fragile empires collapsed, the people would remain and populate the lands. Eventually the turks reached Europe and the Middle east, where they attacked the existing civilisations. However, they soon became Muslims and settled down in Anatolia.

 

[Keltoi]

Turks are not Vikings! :enough!:

Turks are a central asian nomadic people from the lands to the northwest of China. They migrated westwards, conquering lands as the went. When their fragile empires collapsed, the people would remain and populate the lands. Eventually the turks reached Europe and the Middle east, where they attacked the existing civilisations. However, they soon became Muslims and settled down in Anatolia.

I think she meant "viking like", as in warlike and fueled by an instinct to plunder and conquer.

 

[جوري]

Turks are not Vikings! :enough!:

:

The operative word there is viking 'LIKE


I have lost interest in this thread otherwise

cheers

 

[جوري]

the Prophet (saws) said "The Prophethood will remain among you for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will lift it when He wishes to, then it will be a Khilafah Rashidah (Rightly Guided) on the method of the Prophethood, it will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah will lift it if He wishes, then it will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if he wishes, then it will be a tyrannical rule, and it will remain so for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes, then it will be a Khilafah on the method of the Prophethood, then he kept silent."

There has NEVER, even under the Prophet MUhammed, been a government properly implimenting Shariah law?

.

Let's cut through this crap and ask one Q.. do you read anything I post, or do you have a cluster of pigeonholes that you wish to hurl out without interest in exchange or a quest for learning?

cheers

 

[Whatsthepoint]

They live as the Jewish maimondes lived under Islamic rule!

hat about hindus, buddhists, scientologists etc?

 

[جوري]

hat about hindus, buddhists, scientologists etc?

I think most of you writing here, have missed the point entirely, which is a grievous thing since I really do tire of repeating myself.. we are speaking of a prognostication, slowely unravelling for an immense sign of the end being the descent of Jesus himself (if that doesn't catch your attention when it happens) then what can I say... nothing will.. I don't think you need to terribly concern yourself with prophecies yet unfulfilled, least of which if you don't subscribe to a religion are an atheist or if your religion has its own rendition of what it all means..

All we can do is sit and wait for it to happen.. If still unhappy then, surely there will be a league of the antichrist to join.. but if/when he descends there wont be hindus, buddhists and I dare say I don't think scientology has another 3 years under its belt let alone a few hundreds... bottom line is, there will be only two groups left in the world..

the unconcerned and unaffected lock themselves down in a bomb shelter with some canned food, considering the earth itself at that point will have sustained famine, droughts, crop failure, poverty and disease wiping people in the thousands.. so it is good to be prepared as to hold on unyielding to the then dramatically changing tides...


cheers