The Marriage of Aisha to the Prophet(PBUH)

[Skillganon]

Re: Aisha Again

I say that from a Non-Muslim point of view that when I am evaluating Islam, I don't compare it with Christianity and Judiasm. I don't have to pick one of these three religions or any religion at all. So its up to Muslims to convince me that Islam is the way God wants us to live. If you are discussing Islam with a Christian or a Jew that is a different story, but when its with a Non-Muslim in general I think you have to build a stronger base than "Well, its better than in that religion."

The same thing with comparing Islam to the West, because no one is making the claim that Western society is perfect. I think there are some pretty horrible things about Western culture, but just because Islam has a different stance on those issues doesn't necessarily mean I agree with Islam's stance.

Good advice. To people who wan't to teach Islam. Something in the past I failed to notice.

For example, in my opinon I think its wrong for a western man to have sex with 9 partners. I also think its wrong for Islam to allow a man to have 4 wives. What I think is right (one man for one woman) was not given as an option.

I think the problem really arises because their was no limit to how many people can marry.

1. When Islam came it has limited to 4.

2. In recent time most goverment in the world has limited it to 1 mariiage at a time.

So coming into one and thinking that Islam allow's polygamy, people fail to see that Islam aslo promote and allow monogomy.

Their is no seriouse answer to the 4 wives limitation. However it does not make Islam wrong or the Quran wrong.

Even if one applies the statistic of 1:1 ratio of men to women. It only comlpicates the matter & not an argument, because it's a limit and not an obligation to marry 4.

Their is boundaries muslim can't cross, like to marry someone without their consent, forcefully.

Their is may cultural things going around, and this is often confused with Islam. So most of the time the lay muslim is doing it for cultural reason, and inthe outwards to a foreigner it looks like he is doing it because of Islam.

I hope to it help's.

I do undertand that Aisha's marriage and the 4 wive thing and another verse in the Quran(which I am not going to mention here) is the main issue that comes up quite often.

Peace.

Skill.

 

[chris4336]

Re: Aisha Again

I think Islam shows a tremendous amount of both compulsion and guidance to show a man that he must be kind to women. I believe you that Islam teaches you should make it easy on a wife, but I think that many scholars and Muslim men might choose to emphasize different aspects of the religion.
I think Islam does treat women better than the current system we have in the west (whatever that system is).

But there are still some aspects about it that I just don't like. Its hard to make the distinction: Is the problem the religion or the person following it?

 

[chris4336]

Re: Aisha Again

Skill - Haha NOOOO not the beating verse. To me one of the great mysteries of the Arabic language is how a word can mean both "Beat them" and "Hit them lightly with a toothbrush" but I will have to trust you guys on that one..

 

[Skillganon]

Re: Aisha Again

I think Islam shows a tremendous amount of both compulsion and guidance to show a man that he must be kind to women. I believe you that Islam teaches you should make it easy on a wife, but I think that many scholars and Muslim men might choose to emphasize different aspects of the religion.
I think Islam does treat women better than the current system we have in the west (whatever that system is).

But there are still some aspects about it that I just don't like. Its hard to make the distinction: Is the problem the religion or the person following it?

Sometime it is a matter of perception. So most likely people see it from the perception of the sorrounding/teaching they been bought up in and compare it with Islam.

 

[*charisma*]

Re: Aisha Again

Hey,

Sorry if this was mentioned before, I read most replies, and skimmed through others..

Every single Muslim I asked in my country said they would not let there 9 year old daughter marry a 50 year old man. And then when we read "Yes, Islam does support these marriages, in fact the its an example of the Prophet" its very very hard to understand. Its also very hard for me to come up with a situation where this would be in the girls best interest.

You have to realize that there are two types of societies: the type we are used to living in and the type that we can never relate to. Personally, I would never allow my daughter to marry someone of that much older in age while she is that young. However, in Islam this isn't haram (forbidden)at all as long as it complies with the boundries of Islamic teachings. During the Prophet's time (pbuh) and those before him, it wasn't uncommon to find girl's marrying at a very young age. Now, because we can't relate and also because marriage seems to be dispersing in this (western) society, it goes against many of our morals as social beings. Because Islam hasn't been changed (maybe ever so slightly, but not much) ever since it was relevated to the world, it doesn't comply with the west's depiction of modernism.

I'm sure there are many reasons why the US and Europe, and many other countries in the world have ages of the consent above 9. There are reasons why Muslims even will agree that marriage at the age of 9 probably is not appropriate in today's society. There are reasons why you probably would have some doubts before you gave our 9 year old daughter away in marriage to a 50 year old.

I completely agree.

So I think its the responsibility of Muslims to provide explanation of why this is allowed and how the girls will be protected, and NOT the responsibility of NonMuslims to just accept it as something thats permissible, do you see what I mean? Because its cleary not something that NonMuslims and Muslims alike will find acceptable outside of specific circumstances.

While that is true, (after all it is our beliefs) I think it depends on who you ask. For example, we are educated people alhemdulilah, because of our knowledge about our own religion IF we were to marry our daughters at a young age, it would be for a valid reason inshallah. If someone were to be ignorant of Islam, yet still claim to be Muslim or not be practicing, etc, etc. they might do it for thier own benefits or reasons out of the teachings of Islam, allahu a'lem (only allah knows) and try to justify their reasonings with that of religion by saying it is permissible because the Prophet (pbuh) did it. This still would not make it valid.

Their true reasonings, however, could be that they were probably illiterate and couldn't read up on ahadith and Quran so they didn't know any better, or that they were infact living in destitution in which they had to marry their daughters to live with someone that could support them rather than having them live in a terrible state of poverty. This is probably something we couldn't relate to. Any parent, i think, would go to that extent if they couldn't feed their own daughters, just through paternal instinct.

Just like bro Hab (I can call him that, right?) said, many of these problems are in the corrupted people, not Islam.

May allah guide the misguided ameen

peace

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: Aisha Again

The previous thread had been closed as much of the material was being repeated and people were not reading the thread which tends to happen with a thread of that length and that controversy. For this reason, I had mentioned that if someone felt they had new material to add to the thread, to pm me. What one percieves to be new material isn't always the case and this is something that can be quickly pointed out via pm before it spawns a multipage discussion, which is identical in content to the previous discussion.

I'm going to go through the different questions raised in this thread in a concise fashion leaving out the off-topic comments with regard to polygamy and domestic violence which have already been answered in other threads on the forum.

In the last thread Ansar challenged those who think sexual relations for a girl of the age of 9 is wrong to provide medical evidence.

If you wish to respond to another member you should quote exactly what they said so that members can see if you have actually provided a potent response to their assertions or if you have misquoted them entirely. As it turns out, you have falsely attributed to me something I never said. In fact, I specifically made the following statments in that thread:

"Again, this is probably the most obvious strawmen visible. I am not saying it is okay for any man to marry any nine year old girl, I am specifically speaking about Aisha rd."

"I'm not speaking about anyone, I am speaking about the Prophet Muhammad pbuh and Aisha - I clarified this in my last post."
​

So the issue here is whether the marriage of the Prophet Muhammad pbuh to A'ishah was harmful and immoral, NOT whether early marriages in other societies could be classified as such. What is confirmed is that A'ishah was mature and post-pubescent, her marriage to the Prophet was acceptable by cultural norms, she did not bear children which is something God knew before He commanded the Prophet to marry her, and A'ishah did not suffer any harm. Much to the contrary, she lived a very outspoken and public life as a religious scholar and leading figure and she always had the best things to say about the Prophet Muhammad saws.

The purpose in the marriage was mentioned in the thread:

As for the purpose of this marriage, it was purely for sociopolitical reason. The Prophet’s main concern was the future of Islam. He was interested in strengthening the Muslims by all bonds. This also explains the reason why he married the daughter of `Umar, his Second Successor. It was by his marriage to Juwayriyyah that he gained the support for Islam of the whole clan of Bani Al-Mustaliq and their allied tribes. It was through his marriage to Safiyyah that he neutralized a great section of the hostile Jews of Arabia. By accepting Mariya, the Copt from Egypt, as his wife, he formed a political alliance with a king of great magnitude. So his marriage to `Aisha could never be of anything save cementing his relation with Abu Bakr, `Aisha’s father. (SOURCE)​

Q: What about the example the Prophet set?

The absurd issue here is how when people speak about the example of the Prophet they focus only on his marriage to A'ishah! What about all his other marriages? Let us look at a basic table:

Name of Bride/----------------/ Age at marriage/-------------/ Comments
Khadija bin Khuwailid /---------------/ 40 /-------------------/twice widowed before
Sawda bint Zam'ah /-------------------/ 50 /-------------------------------/ widow
Aisha bint Abi Bakr /------------------/ 9 /-----------/ Started living with the prophet at the age of 9.
Hafsa bint Umar /---------------------/ 22 /-------------------/ widow
Zaynab bint Khuzaimah /-----------/ 30 /--------------------/
Umm Salamah bint A.U. /-----------/ 26 /--------------------/ widow
Zaynab bint Jahsh /------------------/ 38 /--------------------/ widow
Juwayriyyah bint Harith /------------/ 20 /--------------------/ widow
Umm Habiba bint A.S. /------------/ 36 /--------------------/ widow
Safiyyah bint Huyay /----------------/ 17 /--------------------/ widow
Maymuna bint Harith /-------------/ 36 /--------------------/ widow

The majority of the Prophet's wives were middle-aged widows!

Q: But doesn't the prophet's example mean that all muslims should marry at that age?

Such a question betrays a gross misunderstanding of the most basic principles in Islamic jurisprudence. I noticed a considerable amount of ignorance in this regard, as expressed in statements like:

I think it would be foolish to say that Muslims men in the world are not using this rule because of their desires

Note the erroneous word highlighted above. The truth of this matter is that just because an action is done by the Prophet pbuh does not make it a part of the religion. If the Prophet ordered others to do it, then it would acquire the status of wâjib, or obligatory. If he did not order us to do it but he recommended it or promised a reward for it, then it would acquire the religious ruling of mustahab or recommended. But other actions like riding a camel or wearing a turban or various cultural practices do not have religious significance. It is only what the prophet commands or recomments. But in this case, we see neither!! In fact, not only is there no recommendation at all in Islam to marry at such an age, but it is forbidden if there is any risk of danger associated with the marriage.

I would quote the following fatwa from Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azîz ibn Ahmad Ad-Durayhim:

As for the possible negative consequences of a man of such a mature age marrying such a young girl, it is patently obvious. The discrepancies in their capabilities, both physically and mentally, could bring about serious differences between the two of them that could lead to the failure of the marriage. This is something that has been seen and is well understood.

Therefore, I would not recommend such a marriage nor would I encourage it.

Moreover, with respect to what we have said about the legal validity of such a marriage, that refers to the validity of the contract itself. As for the effects of the marriage - such as privacy, intimacy and sexual relations - that is another matter entirely. Such things are permitted only if the girl is able to handle such a relationship without any harm whatsoever coming to. Otherwise, it is prohibited. This is because the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "There shall be no harm nor the causing of harm."

It can also be seen in the very conduct of the Prophet (peace be upon him). He did not consummate his marriage with 'A’ishah for a number of years on account of her young age.
​

And from the fatwâ committee supervised by Shaykh 'Abdul-Wahhâb At-Turayrî we note:

The lawfulness of consummating a marriage at such an age is contingent on the maturity of the girl and that no harm would come to her.
​

So if any harm would come from it, then it is unlawful i.e. harâm.


Q: So why didn't Islam prohibit such practices that are harmful?

Actually, it did. It would be impossible for Islam to have an explicit prohibition on every dangerous behavior from jumping off a scyscraper to smoking, so Islam has provided a single broad injunction to cover all instances of harm:

The Prophet Muhammad pbuh said,

لا ضرر ولا ضر​

"There is to be no harming, nor reciprocating of harm." (Musnad Ahmad, authenticated by Al-Albânî)

Yes, I don't deny that Aisha was a very happy woman, my concern was what is being done to protect very young girls from getting into a situation with an older man where they might not be as happily married, and might actually be harmed, but this was very fully explained to me because of the protection a Wali is expected to offer, and that such a marriage should never take place if it is not in the girl's best interest.

Then the issue is resolved.