Re: Atheism
Hi Callum,
Sorry for the delayed reply.
Ditto.
Well, I'm not really up on physics, I'm afraid, so I can't give you a decent answer. What I would say though, is that some things appear to become more ordered as time goes on.
That's true but the physicists have explained this by saying that it is only because a greater disorder has resulted somewhere else in the universe. For example, photosynthesis in plants in percieved as an increase in order but the reason is because the level of entropy in the sun has increased.
Or maybe they could just say that they don't know what happened, or they can't explain it. I take your point, but I still believe that such miracles would increase the number of believers.
But what's the point? If someone needs explosions in the sky before they start worshipping God, they are not worthy of developing a relationship with their Creator anyway.
True, but Dr. Brown, in his moment of crisis, did fall to his knees and start praying, which is an odd thing for an atheist to do. I've been in some desperate situations in my life, and have never felt that doing this would help in the slightest.
Okay. Have you ever had something you think resembles what a believer would call a 'spiritual experience' ?
I think it's very different. Let's say that there was a miracle in 1500 CE and another one in 1960 CE. Now, I couldn't possibly have witnessed either of those, but it's a virtual certainty that more convincing evidence would exist for the more recent miracle, due to the more accurate and reliable recording technology available.
In the modern era. What about the billions of human beings who lived before us? Or even those in the modern era who do not have access to such technology?
If we're talking about a convincing miracle that everybody from the previous generation believes occurred, then you'd have to ask them why they didn't believe.
Perhaps they felt God should make a special case for them since they did not witness the previous miracle, and He should show them another one so that they can be on equal footing with the preceding generation?
That's interesting - I didn't know that. In the case of Karamât, since they may be happening in the modern world, it seems that god isn't being very clear about it.
Because there purpose has nothing to do with establishing proof and causing people to believe. It never has been that way. The
Karamât are only a sign of God's help or protection to a few individuals.
Are things like the tree and the markings on a fish that supposedly spell the name of Allah examples of Karamât?
Not according to my understanding, no.
(I acknowledge the sun as our supreme power, as some of the ancients did.)
The fact that ancient societies held certain beliefs in no way implies that we should therefore believe them too, surely?
I agree but when you have civilizations from all different locations and eras all demonstrating this same fundamental principle, it becomes
massively likely that it is due to some to intrinsic factor within human beings that causes them to acknowledge a single supreme power.
The fact is, nobody knows where the universe came from (to take one example of a mystery). Muslims may claim that they do, but they don't. They have faith in god, and that god created the universe, but that is not the same as knowledge.
But we only have one logical and coherent explanation so far, which also happens to be massively likely to be true in contrast to other remote uncertainties.
That's right - I am thinking of that, and I'll explain why. Here's your original quote:
It looks like you're talking about abiogenesis there (which is supposed to have happened before evolution could even begin). The reason I assumed that you weren't talking about an individual (for example, me) is because you said "We were absolutely nothing..." I was not absolutely nothing before I was born. I consisted of genetic material within each of my parents, which was waiting to be matched in conception. When you think about it, each individual has existed in some form since DNA began to exist.
But it goes into the discussion of what constitutes an individual. Because when we see couple we think of them as two individuals, not two billion. I do agree that my wording was unclear, though.
Peace
