The Only Solution to the Upheaval in Egypt Is!

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This would be a dream in 21st century where the entire worlds enemy is islam and its shariah, but allah gives victory to as-sabiruun and allah is ever powerful and wise.

sooner or later it will happen insha'Allah.. I can't say it will happen now but when Allah swt wills it will come to pass:

"The Prophethood will last among you for as long as Allah wills, then Allah would take it away. Then it will be (followed by) a Khilafah Rashida (rightly guided) according to the ways of the Prophethood. It will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah would take it away. Afterwards there will be a hereditary leadership, which will remain for as long as Allah wills, and then He will lift it if He wishes. Afterwards, there will be biting oppression, and it will last for as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it if He wishes. Then there will be a Khilafah Rashida according to the ways of the Prophethood." Then he kept silent. (Musnad Imam Ahmad (v/273))


I think we're definitely in the area of biting oppression -- so hopefully there is light at the end of this insha'Allah

and Allah swt knows best

:w:
 
Again, Non-Muslims can vote on matters concerning them

Historically Sharia has shown that non-Muslims, with the extremely rare exception, cannot even hold public office, much less vote. Even Muslims, under Sharia, have hardly ever voted on anything. Power was in the hands of a few, not the populace.

If there is to be voting, especially among non-Muslims, it would be a new form of Sharia that has never existed before.
 
Historically Sharia has shown that non-Muslims, with the extremely rare exception, cannot even hold public office, much less vote. Even Muslims, under Sharia, have hardly ever voted on anything. Power was in the hands of a few, not the populace. If there is to be voting, especially among non-Muslims, it would be a new form of Sharia that has never existed before.

historically the non-Muslims were happy with the way things are run and thus had no complaints else they were welcome to leave where it was more free and enlightening, you know 'Europe the dark ages' of course!
 
Yes, Europe during the dark ages was horrible and Islamic rule was superior at the time.

That was 1,000 years ago, though. The world has changed a lot since then. What was the best back then would not be so today.

If Egypt was to implement Sharia I can guarantee you that there would be a mass exodus away from there by non-Muslims, just as there has been a mass exodus of non-Muslims from Muslim countries for the last 80+ years. The difference between now and 1000 years ago is that there does exist a better alternative now and that is the modern West. Egypt can also be a welcoming nation to non-Muslims, but not if they implement a system in which non-Muslims are treated as inferior to Muslims, and that is implicit under Sharia.
 
Yes, Europe during the dark ages was horrible and Islamic rule was superior at the time.

That was 1,000 years ago, though. The world has changed a lot since then. What was the best back then would not be so today.

If Egypt was to implement Sharia I can guarantee you that there would be a mass exodus away from there by non-Muslims, just as there has been a mass exodus of non-Muslims from Muslim countries for the last 80+ years. The difference between now and 1000 years ago is that there does exist a better alternative now and that is the modern West. Egypt can also be a welcoming nation to non-Muslims, but not if they implement a system in which non-Muslims are treated as inferior to Muslims, and that is implicit under Sharia.

ummmmm they're welcome to their mass exodus... any mass exodus that has happened in the past 80+ yrs didn't occur because of sharia law.. it occurred because secularism doesn't work in Muslim lands (period)..

btw here is a story of one Iraqi Jew and why he and many like him were forced yes forced to flee, Iraq, Egypt, etc

http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/ameu_iraqjews.html

You want to speak of how inferior non-Muslims would be treated then sign up for the Daniel pipes forum or go loan your opinion to the turds on CNN and fox.. they seem to like you know secrets that the rest of us aren't familiar with!

all the best
 



Isn't it interesting to note that in the example of USA, the people elect their government who in turn tried so hard to enforce a certain system of governments in many other countries, at the expense of the self determination of those countries' citizens.


sad but true.



It seems the VP is stepping up, which is none better, as he is publicly loved by Israel more than they love Mubarak.

x(
 
Then do not make claims if you are not able to back them up with sources.

Sharia doesn't "allow" massacres any more than democracy does. That doesn't mean that either form of government does not have a history of such things.

And considering that we are conversing on the internet, yet you won't accept sources from the internet, I am not quite sure how you want me to supply you with sources.
 
Sharia doesn't "allow" massacres any more than democracy does. That doesn't mean that either form of government does not have a history of such things.

Yes, tell us how Sharia treats minorities well. Ask the 4,000 Jews that were slaughtered in Granada, Spain in 1066. Ask all the others Jews who were told at the time to convert or die. You want to compare that to being kicked out of a store? (which, by the way, may be liable for a civil suit under US law).

I got the impression that you said it was permissible within the Sharia to kill non non-Muslims and force them to convert to Islam. Historically, some Muslims have done terrible things, but it does not mean the Sharia permits these unlawful activities...

And considering that we are conversing on the internet, yet you won't accept sources from the internet, I am not quite sure how you want me to supply you with sources.

I said I dislike Internet sources, I never said I will not accept them. The wiki article was irrelevant, since we are discussing about the system of the Sharia.

For someone with a degree in History, I was hoping you would present better sources.
 
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Are you saying those sources are better, or are you saying you still require better sources?
 
Here is another source:

Jewish Virtual Library

Also Bernard Lewis has written about it, along with many Jewish scholars including

BBC Report on Islam in Spain

It should also be noted that nowhere have I found any sources that deny the massacre took place.

and??? Tamerlane massacred a lot of people it happend get over it - few acts in history are not the general rule and never have been (you being a history degree holder should know that!) - on a wider scale the muslims have been incredibly tolerant - Christians and Jews have been living in the mid east for centuries - the same cannot be said about Europe about Muslims or even Jews - the wider picture is that they have been persecuted or not even allowed to live there.

Tolerance is a modern thing for the europeans whilst china, India, the mid east have a history of different faiths living togather for centuries.

But we can be like you and Judge america on the "ground zero" contreversy or all of europe on the burkha or the minerat ban - I think you'll agree that would be unfair.
 
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Yes, Europe during the dark ages was horrible and Islamic rule was superior at the time.

That was 1,000 years ago, though. The world has changed a lot since then. What was the best back then would not be so today.

If Egypt was to implement Sharia I can guarantee you that there would be a mass exodus away from there by non-Muslims, just as there has been a mass exodus of non-Muslims from Muslim countries for the last 80+ years. The difference between now and 1000 years ago is that there does exist a better alternative now and that is the modern West. Egypt can also be a welcoming nation to non-Muslims, but not if they implement a system in which non-Muslims are treated as inferior to Muslims, and that is implicit under Sharia.

do you think that non muslims are being treated fairly in Egypt Now??? The "modern west" is not the best alternative it helps keep Mubarak in power for goodness sake - another thing is that people are anti immigration atleast in europe they are and they wont be happy with 20 million copts coming in. (so much for tolernace)

Sharia doesnt mean mass exodus I find hard to believe that the copts will leave Egypt when they have been living there under various conditions for centuries.

the copts would probably be treated better they would be allowed to have there own courts - cant say the same for the "modern west".
 
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few acts in history are not the general rule and never have been (you being a history degree holder should know that!) - on a wider scale the muslims have been incredibly tolerant .

As I said, at the time there is no doubt that a religious minority was treated much better under Muslim rule than in Europe.

- Christians and Jews have been living in the mid east for centuries - the same cannot be said about Europe about Muslims or even Jews - the wider picture is that they have been persecuted or not even allowed to live there

If you look at the last 100 years, though, you will see a large exodus of Jews and other religious minorities away from Muslim majority nations and towards Europe. Part of this is economic, but part is also because there is more tolerance elsewhere.

But we can be like you and Judge america on the "ground zero" contreversy or all of europe on the burkha or the minerat ban - I think you'll agree that would be unfair.

True. I also don't want anyone to think that I believe democracies are automatically tolerant. History shows otherwise, especially American history. The tolerance of a democracy depends solely upon the willingness of the majority to not oppress the minority.

The issue that I have with Sharia, both in theory and in historical practice, is that when you give control to one religion and you equate the state with that religion then you automatically create a subclass that consists of people who do not follow that religion. If you look at history you will see that even though Christians and Jews were tolerated under Muslim rule they were second class citizens and never as a group were they seen as anything close to equals. In the US the law states that the law cannot differentiate between religions. I know in practice that is not always the case in public life (i.e. the Ground Zero Mosque debacle, harassment of Muslims, etc.), but at least these are not the actions of the government but of individuals.

The "modern west" is not the best alternative it helps keep Mubarak in power for goodness sake

Don't confuse a countries religious tolerance with foreign policy. They are two different issues.

Sharia doesnt mean mass exodus I find hard to believe that the copts will leave Egypt when they have been living there under various conditions for centuries.

It depends on whose version of Sharia is implemented. There are Islamic "scholars" that are popular that say that under Sharia no other religions are allowed to build places of worship. If a tolerant version of Sharia is implemented then yes, they will stay. If a not so tolerant version is implemented you will see many leave for freedom elsewhere.

the copts would probably be treated better they would be allowed to have there own courts - cant say the same for the "modern west".

But under Sharia, if there is a conflict between a Copt and a Muslim which court do they go to? Will a Muslim decide or a Copt? What court would atheists or Hindus use? Would every religion have to set up their own courts?

Do you believe that a policy of "separate but equal" is feasible? Because I have yet to find an instance in history where it was a success.
 
True. I also don't want anyone to think that I believe democracies are automatically tolerant. History shows otherwise, especially American history. The tolerance of a democracy depends solely upon the willingness of the majority to not oppress the minority.

The issue that I have with Sharia, both in theory and in historical practice, is that when you give control to one religion and you equate the state with that religion then you automatically create a subclass that consists of people who do not follow that religion. If you look at history you will see that even though Christians and Jews were tolerated under Muslim rule they were second class citizens and never as a group were they seen as anything close to equals. In the US the law states that the law cannot differentiate between religions. I know in practice that is not always the case in public life (i.e. the Ground Zero Mosque debacle, harassment of Muslims, etc.), but at least these are not the actions of the government but of individuals.

yep, that is the case
humanity is not perfect..it never can be, but when you have a people who do not cause war at the slightest of error in action or spoken word then you might begin on the path towards that society.

convincing people of our sincerity even in error of action or spoken word is a very difficult proposition..
real tolerance is rediculously hard to achieve.

its a trust thing really, tolerance of differences is strengthened by trust.. mistakes are forgiven if you have spent time with somebody and know them.. yeah i did that but i didnt mean to and you know me better than that..or that is exactly the sort of thing you normally do but i know you are a good person.

kinda like the wife kicking you under the table just as you are about to make that joke you find really funny.

so back to religion then.
 

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