The Pangs of Divorce

[Asiyah3]

But when you marry someone you love , you don't need to make comparisons or think about your past partners.

This is not the way it always goes in reality.

The divorce rate is high because people in Islam don't marry who they love. They marry what's best according to their parents.

Do you have evidence or authoritative statistics to make such statements? Or have you met all 1,6 billion muslims? To educate you a bit read the below since you said 'people in Islam'.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “We do not think that there is anything better for those who love one another than marriage.” (Narrated by Ibn Maajah, 1847; classed as saheeh by al-Busayri and by Shaykh al-Albaani in al-Silsilah al-Saheehah, 624)

 

[EllyDicious]

in islam we marry who we like so what is the fuss all about?......there is a high divorce rate because couples are not fully acquainted with the rights and responsibilites that come with marriage they've neglected Allah's commands

I agree with this. People nowadays don't know / are lazy to take the responsibility in marriage.

I also agree that love doesn't come just suddenly but it grows on you.
But I think partners should know each other before they get married. If I marry someone I don't know, and the next day I find a lot of things about him I don't like, am I forced to stay with him?
That's why I'm against arranged marriages.

 

[EllyDicious]

This is not the way it goes in reality.

How do you know that?
All of my married friends have had past relationships, now they are happily married to someone else. So it's not the same for everybody.
I think everyone experiences it in a different way.
There's no doubt they could think about past partners, but it's not like this for everyone who has had past partners. People are different.

Do you have evidence or authoritative statistics to make such statements? Or have you met all 1,6 billion muslims? To educate you a bit read the below since you said 'people in Islam'.

I have a lot of muslim/islamic friends, I have known them in real life, I've also been in many Islamic forums and everywhere I hear/see arranged marriages.
I'm not saying it happens in all the Islamic people, but sounds like most of them practice the arranged marriage.

 

[CosmicPathos]

What you say is ridiculous because you compare the love for cartoon to the love for a human being. You even claim to be a "scientist", yet you make these silly comparisons.
Love can increase/decrease but once it comes, never goes. So when you start t love someone for real, you won't cease to love them just like you did with a cartoon.
It's also silly how you compare love for a woman with love for a cartoon. You think woman can be loved like a cartoon? *facepalm*


Yes, that's what I meant.
If you marry someone you love, chances are less for a divorce.

Clearly, people who don't know what is love, can't understand what I'm saying. They just follow what they've been told to do and what they've been told to marry.

You claim to be a law student yet you know jack about reality.

Why is my love for cartoon non-comparable to my love for a human? Who are you to judge the intensity of MY love and what I love? So you are saying that some man's love for a woman is superior to my love for a cartoon? Who gave you the right to judge which love is superior as it relates to me and things which I love? I dont know if woman can be loved like a cartoon but I am talking about love without focussing on the nature of the beloved. I've seen many people who "truly and really" loved each other but 10 years down the road they abhorred, hated and were disgusted from each other. So what you are saying has no bit of truth to it.

I would not want the hedonism of your "love marriage" to permeate into our Islamic people. keep your stuff to yourself.

 

[Asiyah3]

All of my married friends have had past relationships, now they are happily married to someone else. So it's not the same for everybody.
I think everyone experiences it in a different way.
There's no doubt they could think about past partners, but it's not like this for everyone who has had past partners. People are different.

Or course not. You were the one who generalized it, not me. I only replied to your claim and said that the opposite does happen in reality - not to all, but it happens. It wouldn't take me long to link you to such cases.

I have a lot of muslim/islamic friends, I have known them in real life, I've also been in many Islamic forums and everywhere I hear/see arranged marriages.
I'm not saying it happens in all the Islamic people, but sounds like most of them practice the arranged marriage.

I highly doubt MOST OF THEM. I think this is only practised in South asia mostly, not sure though.

 

[CosmicPathos]

How do you know that?
All of my married friends have had past relationships, now they are happily married to someone else. So it's not the same for everybody.
I think everyone experiences it in a different way.
There's no doubt they could think about past partners, but it's not like this for everyone who has had past partners. People are different.





I have a lot of muslim/islamic friends, I have known them in real life, I've also been in many Islamic forums and everywhere I hear/see arranged marriages.
I'm not saying it happens in all the Islamic people, but sounds like most of them practice the arranged marriage.

Where are the statistics and where are the numbers? What you have done or met is irrelevant because you probably met a cluster which was biased.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Because I've seen and heard too many. I can link you straight away to such cases.


Or course not. You were the one who generalized it, not me. I only replied to your claim and said that the opposite does happen in reality - not to all, but it happens.


I highly doubt MOST OF THEM. I think this is only practised in South asia mostly, not sure though.
Do you have something against arranged marriages by the way?

Arranged marriages happen in Arab world too. The families get together and meet. if the Wali does not like the man for valid Islamic reasons, he can reject him no matter how much in love the woman is to this guy. That's arranged marriage. But the Wali cannot force the girl to marry a guy whom she does not want to get married. Arranged marriages are NOT forced marriages.

 

[Asiyah3]

Arranged marriages happen in Arab world too. The families get together and meet. if the Wali does not like the man for valid Islamic reasons, he can reject him no matter how much in love the woman is to this guy. That's arranged marriage.

I know they do, but thanks anyway. I said "I think this is only practised in South Asia mostly". I merely meant that it's not so common to conclude that most cases in Arabia are arranged.

Jazakallah.

 

[CosmicPathos]

I know they do, but thanks anyway. I said "I think this is only practised in South Asia mostly". I merely meant that it's not so common to conclude that most cases in Arabia are arranged.

Jazakallah.

most marriages in Arabia are arranged. What else do you call a marriage in which you have to get permission of wali to get married? What else do you call a marriage in which as lovers you cannot hang out together and get to know each other in quite some detail before marriage?

 

[CosmicPathos]

dp............

 

[Asiyah3]

most marriages in Arabia are arranged. What else do you call a marriage in which you have to get permission of wali to get married?

A marriage is arranged when your parents choose you a husband/wife. If an arranged marriage is the condition of having the parents' approval, then yeah most cases in Arabia fit your definition.

 

[EllyDicious]

You claim to be a law student yet you know jack about reality.

It's funny how you claim to know the reality by comparing love for a cartoon to love for a woman.
It's funny how you forget that women are not cartoons and thus can't be loved as such.
It's funny how you talk to ME about the reality when you don't know that life/love are not like in the cartoon you see on TV.

I feel mercy for you.

Why is my love for cartoon non-comparable to my love for a human? Who are you to judge the intensity of MY love and what I love? So you are saying that some man's love for a woman is superior to my love for a cartoon? Who gave you the right to judge which love is superior as it relates to me and things which I love? I dont know if woman can be loved like a cartoon but I am talking about love without focussing on the nature of the beloved. I've seen many people who "truly and really" loved each other but 10 years down the road they abhorred, hated and were disgusted from each other. So what you are saying has no bit of truth to it.

Have you ever loved a human in your life? Have you ever loved a woman in your life?
I guess no. So don't talk if you haven't tried any kind of love for people. Love for a human/woman is complex and contains lots of different feelings.
You don't know how ridiculous you sound for being surprised about the fact that love for a cartoon can't be compared to love for a woman.
I wonder where you live and what people surround you.
Is this what your religion turns people into? Did Muhammad say that you can love/tread a woman like an object/cartoon?
I guess no. But it's YOUR "scientific" mind that thinks like this.

I would not want the hedonism of your "love marriage" to permeate into our Islamic people. keep your stuff to yourself.

I wonder how you can call yourself a 'scientist' when you are so narrow-minded and ignorant.
NO, I won't keep my stuff to myself. I'm free and allowed to share my opinion and you can't prevent me from doing it.

[QUOTE_muslim_]Because I've seen and heard too many. I can link you straight away to such cases.
[/QUOTE]
Just because you've seen and heard too many, doesn't mean you can create a general statistics about it . Just like I've heard the opposite of what you heard, doesn't mean it's everywhere like this.
That's why I always say, different people have different experiences.

Do you have something against arranged marriages by the way?

Yes, I do. I even said it previously in my posts that I don't HAVE to marry someone I don't love/know. I'm the one who's going to live with him thus I choose who I will marry.
If someone arranges a marriage for me, then I highly doubt I'll stay loyal to my husband because I was forced to marry him thus It's not my duty to love and take care of him.
I don't want others to decide about my life and love. I know what I want and no one has the right to interfere in my freedom of choosing who I want to marry.

 

[CosmicPathos]

It's funny how you claim to know the reality by comparing love for a cartoon to love for a woman.
It's funny how you forget that women are not cartoons and thus can't be loved as such.
It's funny how you talk to ME about the reality when you don't know that life/love are not like in the cartoon you see on TV.

I feel mercy for you.


Have you ever loved a human in your life? Have you ever loved a woman in your life?
I guess no. So don't talk if you haven't tried any kind of love for people. Love for a human/woman is complex and contains lots of different feelings.
You don't know how ridiculous you sound for being surprised about the fact that love for a cartoon can't be compared to love for a woman.
I wonder where you live and what people surround you.
Is this what your religion turns people into? Did Muhammad say that you can love/tread a woman like an object/cartoon?
I guess no. But it's YOUR "scientific" mind that thinks like this.


I wonder how you can call yourself a 'scientist' when you are so narrow-minded and ignorant.
NO, I won't keep my stuff to myself. I'm free and allowed to share my opinion and you can't prevent me from doing it.

[QUOTE_muslim_]Because I've seen and heard too many. I can link you straight away to such cases.

Just because you've seen and heard too many, doesn't mean you can create a general statistics about it . Just like I've heard the opposite of what you heard, doesn't mean it's everywhere like this.
That's why I always say, different people have different experiences.


Yes, I do. I even said it previously in my posts that I don't HAVE to marry someone I don't love/know. I'm the one who's going to live with him thus I choose who I will marry.
If someone arranges a marriage for me, then I highly doubt I'll stay loyal to my husband because I was forced to marry him thus It's not my duty to love and take care of him.
I don't want others to decide about my life and love. I know what I want and no one has the right to interfere in my freedom of choosing who I want to marry.[/QUOTE]

Dont impose your beliefs on others. You dont need to tell me that since I have not loved a woman then I cannot talk about love. There are more things in life to love than just loving the opposite gender.

 

[CosmicPathos]

A marriage is arranged when your parents choose you a husband/wife. If an arranged marriage is the condition of having the parents' approval, then yeah most cases in Arabia fit your definition.

well you can disagree but you cannot change the rule of Islam which states that a wali can reject the proposal of a guy if the reasons are Islamic, now matter HOW much heads over heels is that woman for that guy. Hence, Islamic marriage can never be "love marriage" as defined from secular standards.

 

[Cabdullahi]

arranged marriage is love marriage.......two people who want to marry speak to each other and arrange to meet with others present and then if they're compatible they marry and then love blossoms...so what the problem is?

infatuation marriage is marriage after having tried everything zina related Audhibillah!

 

[CosmicPathos]

arranged marriage is love marriage.......two people who want to marry speak to each other and arrange to meet with others present and then if they're compatible they marry and then love blossoms...so what the problem is?

infatuation marriage is marriage after having tried everything zina related Audhibillah!

but bro, can one really call that "love" which has developed in like few months and has not even been explored ... perhaps there might be a certain important aspect of that person which the other person could not gauge before marrying her just because they could not hang out ... You would only discover flaws "AFTER" marriage, not before marriage, as that is the only chance to then interact with that person freely.

 

[Asiyah3]

Yes, I do. I even said it previously in my posts that I don't HAVE to marry someone I don't love/know. I'm the one who's going to live with him thus I choose who I will marry.

I agree.

If someone arranges a marriage for me, then I highly doubt I'll stay loyal to my husband because I was forced to marry him thus It's not my duty to love and take care of him.
I don't want others to decide about my life and love. I know what I want and no one has the right to interfere in my freedom of choosing who I want to marry.

Hey hey, I never talked about forced marriage. I simply meant a marriage where your friends or parents arrange a meeting between you and someone compatible.

Forced marriages are wrong of course. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A previously-married woman should not be married without being consulted, and a virgin should not be married without asking her permission.” They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, how is her permission given?” He said, “By her silence.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 6455).

 

[CosmicPathos]

I agree.


Hey hey, I never talked about forced marriage. I simply meant a marriage where your friends or parents arrange a meeting between you and someone compatible.

Forced marriages are wrong of course. The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “A previously-married woman should not be married without being consulted, and a virgin should not be married without asking her permission.” They said, “O Messenger of Allaah, how is her permission given?” He said, “By her silence.” (Reported by al-Bukhaari, 6455).

indeed. She is comparing arranged marriage with forced marriage. What a lie!

In South Asia, when "arranged marriages" are done, first engagement is done. Which is not Nikah. in the time period between engagement and nikah the two people talk to each other and understand each other and develop "love" for each other. If it works out then they get married, if it does not then engagement is called off! How is that arranged marriage?!!

On the other hand, Islamic marriage is arranged marriage! You have NO chance to interact with the opposite gender in normal setting to gauge how they are in daily life. Anyone can fake anything in controlled setting. That being said, I am not against Islamic marriage.

 

[Asiyah3]

well you can disagree but you cannot change the rule of Islam which states that a wali can reject the proposal of a guy if the reasons are Islamic, now matter HOW much heads over heels is that woman for that guy. Hence, Islamic marriage can never be "love marriage" as defined from secular standards.

I agree, except that it should be clarified that in such cases Islamic marriages can't be "love marriage".

 

[EllyDicious]

but bro, can one really call that "love" which has developed in like few months and has not even been explored ... perhaps there might be a certain important aspect of that person which the other person could not gauge before marrying her just because they could not hang out ... You would only discover flaws "AFTER" marriage, not before marriage, as that is the only chance to then interact with that person freely.

NO. You can discover flaws BEFORE getting married. That's why people need to stay in a relationship to see if they are compatible with each other, then they can decided whether they want to get married or not.

But in Islam this is haraam, so clearly there's no other choice but to get married.