The People of the Book are following the truth?!

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The thing is that Christians never cliam that Jesus was given any message by g-d.

Rather, Christains say the gospels are ABOUT Jesus, not BY Jesus

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Thats what christains today say - what about the christains before the Bible as the bible was canonized in 325AD - what about them - as we know there were many brands of early Jewish christainty and not just your Pauline version of it.

peace
 
Why do Muslims follow hadeth? They are not from GOD and were written way after Mohammad? I remember reading 200 years later.

Pauls inspired writings are GOD WORDs. LOL!! Mohammad can receive a revelation and no other can?

Paul's revelation is amazing considering the fact that originally he was condemning and persecuting Christians. At least until until his meeting with on the road to Damascus.

Did you know that some of those Christian sects believed that Jesus was all GOD and his body was a type of mirage.

All believed Jesus to be the Son of GOD. All believed Jesus was crucified.

All Christians try to keep the 10 Comandments- that is GOD's Law.
More specifically Jesus reply to a student:

Matthew 22

36"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" 37Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Muslims do not seem to understand that these 2 commandments sum up all of the 10Commandments and every Law from GOD:

Love GOD above everything with every part of your being- GOD comes first in your life because you want to
and
Love your neighbor as yourself- this means even your enemy, non-believers, everyone!

Yes we know the Bible was canonized then - that just means that a final "official" collection of all the different Books were compiled into the Bible which happens to be the Book the Quran is confirming.

The Old Testament Books were recognized much earlier by the Jews and were "official". When Jesus arrived these were the scriptures. In 40-90AD the eyewitness wrote the Gospel. The other scripture used in the New Testament referenced the original Gospel, ie. Paul's writings.

In 150 Christian writers were using the whole New Testament the original 4 Gospels and the letters written by others- calling it the New Covenant.
 
Follower, Follower - You have your Pauline chirstianty - but there was also other sects that were against the Pauline doctrine and the church preety much wiped them out. So its realy hard trying figure what people believed especially the ones that were against the church. It must have been preety radical as they preety much exterminated a lot of there works that only little survives.

and about the commands its the muslims that keep the commands fully - all the 10 commands including the 2 stated by Jesus pbuh - Jesus himself said that it was a route to achieving the kingdom of God - again with is contradictory to christain doctrine itself today. - you have that problem understanding that your version of christainty isnt the only one that was around:)

As I said the scholars are talking about a Q gospel today - what are we going to find in the future as its common knolwedge that early christian history is full of mystery.

about the 10 commandments - I agree with rpwelton you violate "thou shalt not make graven images" command.
 
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No coddles you are mis interpreting this verse, it is:

Fight/kill those who do not believe with God

Fight/kill those who do not believen in the Day the Last/Resurrection Day

Fight/kill those who do not believe and do not forbid/prohibit what God and His messenger forbid/prohibited,

Fight/kill those who do not believe and do not take/adopt a religion the correct/right religion from those who were given/brought The Book

Do you see now how easily verses can be mis-interpreted?

Abdallatif - went right along with it the verses, twisting it to mean that the People of the Book follow: The religion of the People of the Book isn't the complete truth, however it has some information about Allah in their scriptures which hasn't been changed by man.

aamirsaab-

I am looking for literal meanings of the verses. The site I am using is:

http://www.yaqb.org/http://www.yaqb.org/

I don't think this is a hate site.

Follower, stop being a Blind Follower.

First of all you should understand the motives for jihad in Islam, before asking about who deserves to be killed.

These motives were summed up by Rib’i ibn ‘Aamir and other companions of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and were stated to Rustam, the commander of the Persian army, in the battle of al-Qaadisiyyah, when he asked them one after another, for three consecutive days before the battle took place: “What is this that you have brought?” The answer came: “Allaah has sent us to bring forth whomsoever He wills from the worship of people to the worship of Allaah alone, from the hardship of this world to its ease, from the injustice of other religions to the justice of Islam. He sent His Messenger with His religion to His creation. Whoever accepts it from us, we will accept it from him and will go back; we will leave him and his land alone. Whoever refuses, we will fight him until we end up in Paradise or in victory.”

This religion has always – and continues to and always will – be faced with resistance based on deviant beliefs and false ideologies, with political, military, social, economic and racial obstacles. All these obstacles combined may produce an attitude that rejects Islam altogether and prevents people from following it.

If verbal discussions and debates, arguing in a way that is better, address deviant beliefs and ideas, then the jihad movement addresses other, material obstacles, foremost among which is the political power that is based on those combined factors. It aims its strikes at the military and political powers that enslave the people to something other than Allaah – i.e., rules them by means of something other than the laws of Allaah – and that prevent them from listening to the truth and following it with absolute freedom. Thus there is a need for both da’wah and jihad in order to face the real obstacles of life.

See Ma’aalim fi’l-Tareeq, p. 59 ff

Thus it becomes clear that the basic principle of fighting as prescribed in sharee’ah is jihad, and its purpose is that all religion should be devoted to Allaah, and that the word of Allaah should be supreme. Whoever tries to prevent that is to be fought, according to the consensus of the Muslims. With regard to those who are not involved in resistance and fighting – such as women, children, monks, old men, the blind, the chronically ill, and so on – they are not to be killed, according to the majority of scholars, unless they fight in word or deed… because we are to fight those who fight us, if we want the religion of Allaah to prevail, as Allaah says (Interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight in the way of Allaah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allaah likes not the transgressors”

[al-Baqarah 2:190]

It was proven that our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) passed by a woman who had been killed in one of his battles, and the people were standing around her, and he said: “This one was not a fighter.” And he sent a man to Khaalid ibn al-Waleed – who was a general at the head of his army – and commanded him: “Tell him not to kill any children or hired workers.” Perhaps what is meant is those who were not bearing arms. Narrated by Abu Dawood, 2669; al-Albaani said: It is hasan saheeh; Saheeh Abi Dawood, 2324.

Allaah has permitted killing to whatever extent it is needed to bring people to the right path, as He says (interpretation of the meaning):

“and Al‑Fitnah (tumult and oppression) is worse than killing”

[al-Baqarah 2:217]

i.e., although killing involves evil and mischief, the evil and mischief caused by the fitnah of the disbelievers (the tumult and oppression that they cause) is worse than that. With regard to the person who does not try to prevent the Muslims from establishing the religion of Allaah, his disbelief harms no one but himself.

Al-Siyaasah al-Shar’iyyah by Ibn Taymiyah, 165-167.

Here there is an important point to be made: fighting, aggression and oppression are old problems that affect mankind so long as people are influenced by greed and by whims and desires, and so long as both good and evil exist among men. Ibn Khaldoon said:

“Wars and all kinds of fighting have existed from the moment Allaah created mankind. Their origin is the desire that some people have to wreak vengeance on others… This is something natural in man and no nation or era is free of this...”

Moreover, what do the Muslims have to do with the terrible wars that have taken place between various Christian groups in the past, and what befell the Protestants at the hands of the Catholics?

What do the Muslims have to do with the two World Wars, or with Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

We have the right to say, along with Count Henri de Christie: “It is more correct to say that the peaceful nature and gentleness of the Muslims is the reason why their state fell.”

Allaah the Almighty has spoke the truth:

“Those who have been expelled from their homes unjustly only because they said: ‘Our Lord is Allaah.’ For had it not been that Allaah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allaah is mentioned much would surely, have been pulled down. Verily, Allaah will help those who help His (Cause). Truly, Allaah is All‑Strong, All‑Mighty”

[al-Hajj 22:40]

Think about that, then listen to the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Allaah wonders at those who will enter Paradise in chains.” (Saheeh al-Bukhaari, 3030). And he said: “[The verse] ‘You are the best of peoples ever raised up for mankind’ [Aal ‘Imraan 3:110] means, You are the best for the people, as you bring them with chains on their necks till they embrace Islam” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 4557) – i.e., when they fight others, they may take some of them prisoner, or others may submit to their rule, then they come to know Islam and enter into the faith, even though they disliked it at first.

http://www.islamqa.com/en/ref/27180/
 
LOL! Muslims continue to cause mischief for Christians- There are not 3 gods in Christianity. Our concept of the fullnes and unity of our One True GOD is different then yours.
 
LOL! Muslims continue to cause mischief for Christians- There are not 3 gods in Christianity. Our concept of the fullnes and unity of our One True GOD is different then yours.

??????

No Follower you say God (singular) who is 3 - You worship 3 very distinct things that you believe make up 1 God. Its true this is a logical fallacy and according to Islam its shirk.

we know what you mean by trinty - and its joining partners with God which makes it a major sin in Islam.
thats why the Quran says

[4.171] People of the Book, do not exaggerate your religion. Do not say
about Allah except the truth. Indeed, the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, is
only a Messenger (and Prophet) of Allah, and His Word (Be) which He gave to
Mary, and a (created) spirit by Him. So believe in Allah and His Messengers
and do not say: 'Trinity. '
Refrain, it is better for you. Allah is only One God. Exaltations to Him
that He should have son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in
the earth, it is sufficient that Allah is the Guardian.


peace
 
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A graven image is a carved or engraved image that is used as an idol.

A man is an Image - If you call him God like Jesus or give him divine attributes then thats violating the command. There are also pics drawn all over churches of Jesus - its an Image.


"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. (Exodus 20:4-6)"

Jesus pbuh also walked on land - you give him divine attributes - its violating the command openly.

peace
 
No, they are not partners, One GOD, but different manifestations. Different ways GOD has revealed Himself to man.

Jesus is the human shell, from His time on earth. The human shell that contained GOD's WORD.

You believe that the Quran contains Allah's word. We believe that Jesus was GOD's WORD.

I am not sure why you are mis-understanding. Did you not read the definition of graven image? Christians do not bow down to any manmade idols.

LOL! Actually I believe Muslims are adding partners to Allah by saying that you must believe in Mohammad to be a Muslim/submitter to GOD. To leave Mohammad off and say you can be a submitter and believe in Just GOD that would be great.

Christians say you must believe in GOD and His living WORD. In our case the partner to GOD is His WORD.
 
No, they are not partners, One GOD, but different manifestations. Different ways GOD has revealed Himself to man.

Jesus is the human shell, from His time on earth. The human shell that contained GOD's WORD.

You believe that the Quran contains Allah's word. We believe that Jesus was GOD's WORD.

I am not sure why you are mis-understanding. Did you not read the definition of graven image? Christians do not bow down to any manmade idols.

LOL! Actually I believe Muslims are adding partners to Allah by saying that you must believe in Mohammad to be a Muslim/submitter to GOD. To leave Mohammad off and say you can be a submitter and believe in Just GOD that would be great.

Christians say you must believe in GOD and His living WORD. In our case the partner to GOD is His WORD.


first of all no human on earth has ever called Muhammad pbuh divine - Yet you call a man who walked on earth divine (Jesus) - Hes sharing or "sitting on the right hand" of God - You also have the holy Ghost. Thats giving partners to God

3 very distinct things yet still one God. You put partners with God By worshipping and saying that Jesus is God and so is the father and so is the holy Ghost! - 3 things that are very differnet but some how in christain logic 1 God - clear open joining partners with God.

Anything co equal with the one true God (like Jesus or the holy ghost) is joining partners with God.

Muslims also believe Jesus is the word of God - but so is Muhammad pbuh - no way makes them divine.

You have to believe all prophets form Adam to Muhammad pbuh - that includes Jesus and John the baptists that Jews also reject. You also have to worship God ALONE with nobody sitting on the right hand of God. Thats clearly joining partners with God.

Man is an Image of God - Jesus was man that walked on earth - you do worship him - therefore you violate the command openly. As it was given to the Jews you should ask them what it means :) .
 
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Christians say you must believe in GOD and His living WORD. In our case the partner to GOD is His WORD.

Its not as easy as that

you have to believe in christainty


1- God somehow changed and became a man that violates the OT
2 - we are some how born of sin and therefore have to accept Jesus the man that sits on the right hand side of God and who is divine and who is Innocent to die for all the sinners!! - an unjust act.
3 - a triunion God that is nowhere to be seen in the OT.


By the way you also have to believe in John, mark, matthew, paul, Luke and the rest who are not even prophets.


oh and LOL!

peace
 
Dear Zafran:

You wrote:

Its a pity non of there work survives​

While some of the early church literature was destroyed, much of it, over 20,000 pages, remains. These early teachings from the time of Jesus until the time of Mohammed are included in the 30-year study “Brothers Kept Apart”, in order to understand the religious issues that the Qur’an was likely reacting to.

A review of the Jewish and Christian traditions that Mohammed would have been exposed to, confirms that the Qur’an rightly condemned the corrupt teachings in the region and the persons promoting those practices.

You also wrote:

and not just your Pauline version of it.​

Please note that the letters of Paul are consistent with the Gospels. The accusations that Paul’s writings offer an alternative Gospel are unsupported by the evidence. You should be aware that there is harmony between the teachings of the Gospel, the teachings of Paul, and the principal teachings of the Qur'an.

Regarding the Gospel, the study found that the likely candidate for the Ingeel is the Diatessaron, which was a synthesis of the 4 Gospels which was popular throughout Syria from 172 AD. It was controversially removed about 100 years before Mohammed. All of the details are included in the Book which you can read at your local library.

Regards,
Grenville
 
LOL! Muslims continue to cause mischief for Christians- There are not 3 gods in Christianity. Our concept of the fullnes and unity of our One True GOD is different then yours.

How can three things be one? God, the Holy spirit and Jesus are three if you use common mathamatics. Or even common sense. One is a God, one is an Angel and the other is a human. Right?
 
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No, they are not partners, One GOD, but different manifestations. Different ways GOD has revealed Himself to man.

Jesus is the human shell, from His time on earth. The human shell that contained GOD's WORD.

You believe that the Quran contains Allah's word. We believe that Jesus was GOD's WORD.
Well you got one part right. Allah says:

It beseems not God that He should take to Himself a son! glory to be Him; when He has decreed a matter He only says to it "Be," and it is. [19:34]



I am not sure why you are mis-understanding. Did you not read the definition of graven image? Christians do not bow down to any manmade idols.

LOL! Actually I believe Muslims are adding partners to Allah by saying that you must believe in Mohammad to be a Muslim/submitter to GOD. To leave Mohammad off and say you can be a submitter and believe in Just GOD that would be great.

Christians say you must believe in GOD and His living WORD. In our case the partner to GOD is His WORD.
We don't understand because the trinity is a mystery.

And please, grow up. Muhammad is a human being and a Prophet of god.

Follower, i'm sorry but this thread has gone way past it's point. It doesn't seem to be getting anywhere so i'm closing it.

:threadclo
 
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