The Rights of a Dhimmi (non muslim) & Muslim in an Islamic State.

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- Qatada said:
Joe, we know that there is no Islamic State in the world today ^ its mentioned in the 3rd post.
Regards.


Iran, Pakistan and Saudie Arabia call themselves Islamic countries. As a result the world can see what an Islamic state is like by watching the actions of these countries.

The thing is, if any of us non-believers critisize any of these countries, you will tell us we are critizing Islam - and in the same breath tell us they are not Islamic.

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If someone would create a true 100% democracy, it would be the most perfect state the world has ever seen.

There would be no need to talk about the rights of this group or that group because they would all be the same.

If every country would adapt this democracy, surly all wars would end and for the first time since there have been two tribes, the world would be at peace.
 
Iran, Pakistan and Saudie Arabia call themselves Islamic countries. As a result the world can see what an Islamic state is like by watching the actions of these countries.

The thing is, if any of us non-believers critisize any of these countries, you will tell us we are critizing Islam - and in the same breath tell us they are not Islamic.

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actually, i never heard anyone saying that you are criticizing islam when you criticize those countries.
 
actually, i never heard anyone saying that you are criticizing islam when you criticize those countries.

Really? You havent seen the threads comparing Western countries to 'Islamic Ones' where by because they follow 'God's Law' they are somehow better?
 
I’m not sure why you would make this claim.

I would propose that an Islamic state is one where Moslems are the majority inhabitants, where islam is the mandated religion and where sharia is the legal system. By that definition, there are many Islamic states. I would suggest that it’s disingenuous to claim - - and unrealistic to expect that – there ever could be the prototypical Islamic paradise prophesized by the historical figure you revere as a religious figure.

Clearly, people are an incorporation of their religious beliefs, practices and customs. People get their religious beliefs, in this case, Islam, from somewhere. In this case, that “somewhere” is the Koran. I note that the states you claim are not Islamic states certainly do claim that they are Islamic states. Their religious perspectives are inclusive of their behavior, be it for power or destruction or material gains, that people are an integration of their politics and their religions and their traditions and their desires, etc. You simply can’t dismiss the religious connotations to their behavior. I incorporate them (and do so fairly on both sides of the question). These cultures have religion (islam), as their primary motivation so it is fair and accurate to judge islam by Islamic nations.


Curiously, however, folks who have not allowed a monopolistic spirit realm to develop, notably the folks of India and China, largely polytheistic nations, are on the rise. By dint of population, growing wealth, and political influence, their ascendancy portends an altered global mindset as all the gods shall be accorded a place in the ineluctable unfolding of human destiny.

You misunderstand, these are not True scotsman islamic state.

Now i am curious where these rules were established?
Where did Mohammad or Alah set up these rules?
 
Iran, Pakistan and Saudie Arabia call themselves Islamic countries. As a result the world can see what an Islamic state is like by watching the actions of these countries.

The thing is, if any of us non-believers critisize any of these countries, you will tell us we are critizing Islam - and in the same breath tell us they are not Islamic.

-

Well calling a country an Islamic state doesn't make it one. What you should do is see if there actions are in line with the Islamic teachings. I can tell you with certainty that this nations that you have mentioned don't even follow Islam fully. To be fair there are people who try to impelment Islam in their daily life but they are not the majority. As a muslim when i see those nations i don't see an Islamic state in action and many muslims could testify to that.

You are welcomed to criticize those nations and if you need company let me know. It is a common thing in our family to discuss and criticize them. While you are doing so, please learn to differentiate between Islam and the so called "Islamic states.".

do you got a link to this history? and what happened to this wonderful place of right action?
It disappeared when muslims abadoned their faith and started to put culture, nation, and other things before Islam. Hopefully, one day it will return when muslims are ready for it.
 
I think which side of the battle you were on would impact just how wonderful you thought it was. :hiding:

I see it as a typical case of "History written by the victors".
 
Ansar Al-'Adl said:
It is a fact that there is no country today that is implementing the Sharî'ah accurately and in its entirety.

perhaps if you provde an internet link to these laws we can all study them for ourselves.
 
perhaps if you provde an internet link to these laws we can all study them for ourselves.

I can not speak for Bro Ansar and he is a much better source for this then I am or ever will be. I am not very knowledgeable about Islam anr far from understanding Shariah.

I doubt if any comprehensive sites exist, particular English ones I doubt if any one scholar ever lived long enough to read all of the legal rulings of all the jf memory serves me right it takes about half a million books to hold all of the rules.

I believe many sharia scholars limit there studies just one area.
 
Hi
Please be clear about one thing.Being a muslim country is different from being an Islamic country.
  1. Muslim country = where muslims are in majority
  2. Islamic country = Where Islamic sharia is implemented.

From these definitions there is "No true" islamic country but there are many "muslim countries"
 
I want to ask something. I know that christians and jews (people of the book) who live in lands conquered by muslims they have 3 options (as far as i know)- to accept the special tax and live peacefully in muslim controlled land, or to convert to islam and become full citizens or to resist the occupation and fight. So i wanna ask, whats the fate of atheists and agnostics (like Wilber or Snakelegs for example) in such lands. What options they have?
 
I want to ask something. I know that christians and jews (people of the book) who live in lands conquered by muslims they have 3 options (as far as i know)- to accept the special tax and live peacefully in muslim controlled land, or to convert to islam and become full citizens or to resist the occupation and fight. So i wanna ask, whats the fate of atheists and agnostics (like Wilber or Snakelegs for example) in such lands. What options they have?

i don't think atheists and agnostics are included under the term "dhimmi" so, yeah, it would be interesting to know the laws regarding them and how they differ.
(personally, i would never want to live in under any kind of theocracy, but it is not something i worry about.)
 
Quote: So i wanna ask, whats the fate of atheists and agnostics (like Wilber or Snakelegs for example) in such lands. What options they have? Endquote

Quote: Execution. Endquote

And here we have the advocate of no-compulsion-in-religion.
Its true actually. You cant be non-compliant if your head is in a basket.

Thanks sister for showing us the sunny side of your religion.
 
I want to ask something. I know that christians and jews (people of the book) who live in lands conquered by muslims they have 3 options (as far as i know)- to accept the special tax and live peacefully in muslim controlled land, or to convert to islam and become full citizens or to resist the occupation and fight. So i wanna ask, whats the fate of atheists and agnostics (like Wilber or Snakelegs for example) in such lands. What options they have?
Hi
In any islamic country ,any non-muslim is as respectable citizen as any other person with exception of a few rights.Like he cannot become head of the state.
First Commander in Chief of the Pakistan Army was General Gracy a Christian,.One of Chief justice of Pakistan was Justice Carnaleus ,a christian. A few months back a Hindu took oath as Chief justice of Pakistan.
Though Pakistan is still not a true "islamic country".
 
i don't think atheists and agnostics are included under the term "dhimmi" so, yeah, it would be interesting to know the laws regarding them and how they differ.

What do you mean they're not included as "dhimmi"? The full term used is "kaaffir dhimmi" (unbelievers under protection). Unbelievers who wage war and cause trouble against the Islamic State is termed "kaaffir harbi".

Jews and Christians are categorized as "ahle kitab" (People of the Book)
 
What do you mean they're not included as "dhimmi"? The full term used is "kaaffir dhimmi" (unbelievers under protection). Unbelievers who wage war and cause trouble against the Islamic State is termed "kaaffir harbi".

Jews and Christians are categorized as "ahle kitab" (People of the Book)

i have seen dhimmi defined as unbelievers or non-muslim (under muslim protection) and i have also seen in more narrowly defined as referring specifically to christians, jews and sometimes other religions too.
so i am not sure if an atheist or agnostic would come under the term dhimmi or not. i am really curious now - does anyone know for sure?
were there even atheists and agnostics around in the early days of islam?
i know there were people of the book and there were idolators, but were there atheists?
 

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