The scientific miracles of the Quran.

[Trumble]

The first translation of the verse that has been given in the thread is from Adnan Öktar, Harun Yahya by his pen-name.

Now why doesn't that surprise me....


PurestAmbrosia; thank you for your explanation of the Arabic.

 

[جوري]

is my translation and that of pooya's explanation documented in the multilingual quran, whose link I provided not satisfactory?

 

[Philosopher]

is my translation and that of pooya's explanation documented in the multilingual quran, whose link I provided not satisfactory?

From the post above you, I think Trumble admits to his error.

 

[Cyril]

The Arabic word lamuusi3uun(a) لَمُوسِعُونَ (the final "a" is not pronounced at pause) is the intensive prefix "la-" followed by muusi3uun which is not a verb actually but a plural active participle of the verb awsa3a which means to make vast.

So the name muusi3 in the singular means "he who makes things vast". It has also some derived meanings as "he who is rich" or "he who is able to do something".

The Arabic "wainnaa lamuusi3uuna" translates literally as "and We (=God) (are) indeed makers of vast things" or "givers of vastness to things" or as Shakir says "the makers of things ample".

That is the literal meaning. Most translators prefer to translate by a verb like to expand or to spread out.

 

[جوري]

The translators differ simply because none of them are native Arabic speaker
Marmaduke Pickthall was British, stick him in any search engine, he was from a noble British family and fantastic breed, he became Muslim and was one of the first to translate the noble Quran
Yusufali was Indian, I believe him to be a shiite but that isn't the important point here Author: M H Shakir (1904-1959); Title: The Quran, Arabic and English; Published in 1981, with a brief biography indicating Mahomedali Habib (MH Shakir is a pen name) died 1959 days after completing this translation. This translation is largely taken from Maulana Muhammed Ali’s translation with English updated to middle century style-- in other words two non-native Arabic speakers and the third is modified!

better translations have come since. though the effort of the first pioneers is much appreciated.

Now.. I have several words that describe someone who cannot admit when they are wrong, and enjoy vain discourse...
Law konti tata'hadathi al'3rbya bila'baqa wa tastate3een an taqr'ey hazha fa anti 7imara...
did you understand what I just wrote? if you didn't then I'd suggest you refrain from looking for a translation that suits your fancy.
peace

 

[جوري]

if anyone here is in doubt pls purchase

http://www.amazon.com/Al-Mawrid-Modern-English-Arabic-Dictionary-2004/dp/9953630100/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-7154778-1573519?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1177454189&sr=8-1

from Amazon ISBN-10: 9953630100 if you so wish to make your purchase from else where and look at page 327.. for the word "expand"... and put the pseudo intellects and so-called literary critics to rest!


peace!

 

[thirdwatch512]

as a christian, I could care less about these so called "miracles."

the bible mentions MANY times, Old and New Testament, about false prophets, who will be able to perform miracles, show signs or wonders, and who will even tell you to love the Lord, but they woill be false, and sent as a test or something.

also, not for nothing, but the so caleld "science" in the qu'ran has ALL been debunked.

people seem to think that in 600 a.d., everyone was dumb and uneducated. but that's just not the case. it wasn't like that at all, especially in arabia.

and then you say that mohammad was illeterate.. ok, so?

then someone mentions how the qu'ran is really poetic.. well yeah, i bet it is! the arabic language s a poetic language. and arabs at that time were known for poetry.

i never forget the story of mohammad in mecca, and him being at a poet competition.. he recited the qu'ran, and no one gave him any attention. why? because it wasn't anything spectacular, especially for that time.

then of course, there's always the claim that the qriting style of the qu'ran is different then mohammads style, as quoted in the hadiths.. well, let me say, my writing style in essays is MUCH different then my writing style here. and whenever i write a poem, my writing style is CERTAINLY different! plus, let's not forget the Book of Mormon has 24 different writing styles in it.. oh, so is that all of a sudden from God!! my goodness, such double standard lol.

now as for the claim of the qu'ran expanding..

This is not so. Muhammad is simply saying that the universe is vast and not that it is expanding. This verse reads:

وَالسَّمَاء بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ

See how this is translated:
YUSUFALI: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
PICKTHAL: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
SHAKIR: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.

The fact that the universe is vast is prosaic and obvious. There is no mention of expanding universe in this verse. Any illiterate man could look around himself and see the world is vast. To the ancient people even the Earth looked vast. To us it looks very small. Some modern translators of the Quran have tried to give a scientific spin to the Quran and have translated the word continuity stating that the universe is expanding. This is not true. The word مُوسِعُونَhas no such connotation



also, if the qu'ran is from God, why does it speak of God in third person?

the science in the qu'ran is nothing spectacular at all.

sorry if i'm offending anyone, i am just stating my opinion.

 

[Umar001]

as a christian, I could care less about these so called "miracles."

the bible mentions MANY times, Old and New Testament, about false prophets, who will be able to perform miracles, show signs or wonders, and who will even tell you to love the Lord, but they woill be false, and sent as a test or something.

It'd be interesting to see if you as a Jew living in the time of Jesus would have follow him or just said 'Well my faith teaches you're wrong because many false prophets will come, so no matter what miracles you do I wont believe you'

i never forget the story of mohammad in mecca, and him being at a poet competition.. he recited the qu'ran, and no one gave him any attention. why? because it wasn't anything spectacular, especially for that time.

Any chance for a source?

then of course, there's always the claim that the qriting style of the qu'ran is different then mohammads style, as quoted in the hadiths.. well, let me say, my writing style in essays is MUCH different then my writing style here. and whenever i write a poem, my writing style is CERTAINLY different! plus, let's not forget the Book of Mormon has 24 different writing styles in it.. oh, so is that all of a sudden from God!! my goodness, such double standard lol.

Well I am sure as a logical person you'll understand that the miracle of the language of the Qu'ran is appriciated by those who know the language right? If so then why are you even bothering to talk about it, unless am mistaken and you know the language then noone here is begging you to believe the linguisitic miracle.

now as for the claim of the qu'ran expanding..

This is not so. Muhammad is simply saying that the universe is vast and not that it is expanding. This verse reads:

وَالسَّمَاء بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ

See how this is translated:
YUSUFALI: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
PICKTHAL: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
SHAKIR: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.

The fact that the universe is vast is prosaic and obvious. There is no mention of expanding universe in this verse. Any illiterate man could look around himself and see the world is vast. To the ancient people even the Earth looked vast. To us it looks very small. Some modern translators of the Quran have tried to give a scientific spin to the Quran and have translated the word continuity stating that the universe is expanding. This is not true. The word مُوسِعُونَhas no such connotation

And you know this because your fluent in arabic right? I'd expect no less.

also, if the qu'ran is from God, why does it speak of God in third person?

By this alone I understand you don't understand the arabic language.

 

[- Qatada -]

as a christian, I could care less about these so called "miracles."

the bible mentions MANY times, Old and New Testament, about false prophets, who will be able to perform miracles, show signs or wonders, and who will even tell you to love the Lord, but they woill be false, and sent as a test or something.

Jesus son of Mary and Moses did many miracles, and there followers depended upon them alot more. We don't need to see Moses split up the sea, nor do we need to see Jesus son of Mary cure the leper or the blind, the Qur'an in itself is a miracle and we believe in it. So in reality - we don't dpeend on the miracles which they perform, rather we depend on the message which is given - worship the One God, our Creator, Sustainer and Provider. And that is much more believable than claiming that One God is in three parts, and then dying.

also, not for nothing, but the so caleld "science" in the qu'ran has ALL been debunked.

No it hasn't.

people seem to think that in 600 a.d., everyone was dumb and uneducated. but that's just not the case. it wasn't like that at all, especially in arabia.

You really think so? The arabs were an illiterate nation, and the superpowers at that time [the Byzantinian Romans, and the Persian Sassanids] thought them to be of the most ignorant of people - so they never even bothered to translate their works to them.

and then you say that mohammad was illeterate.. ok, so?

then someone mentions how the qu'ran is really poetic.. well yeah, i bet it is! the arabic language s a poetic language. and arabs at that time were known for poetry.

Yeah, thats why the arabs who were well known for poetry couldn't even bring forward one chapter like the Qur'an? Why was that if they were the most poetic of people? That is because the Qur'an is revelation from God, and you havn't proved at all how it's not. And guess what? It's much more clearer than the bible, especially when Jesus son of Mary never even tells people to worship him at all.

i never forget the story of mohammad in mecca, and him being at a poet competition.. he recited the qu'ran, and no one gave him any attention. why? because it wasn't anything spectacular, especially for that time.

You really think? Let's listen to how it sounds:

[media]http://sabbir.com/Media/Quran/As-Sayefh/101%20Al%20Qari%27ah.mp3[/media]Surah Qari'a [101 - Qur'an]

http://sabbir.com/DownloadHalal.html

then of course, there's always the claim that the qriting style of the qu'ran is different then mohammads style, as quoted in the hadiths.. well, let me say, my writing style in essays is MUCH different then my writing style here. and whenever i write a poem, my writing style is CERTAINLY different! plus, let's not forget the Book of Mormon has 24 different writing styles in it.. oh, so is that all of a sudden from God!! my goodness, such double standard lol.

Are you just trying to say that out of ignorance? Study the sciences of the arabic language and then come back.

now as for the claim of the qu'ran expanding..

This is not so. Muhammad is simply saying that the universe is vast and not that it is expanding. This verse reads:

وَالسَّمَاء بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ

See how this is translated:
YUSUFALI: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
PICKTHAL: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
SHAKIR: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.

It's explained by sister PurestAmbrosia, she's an arabic speaker. I think you're not, especially because of your claim:

also, if the qu'ran is from God, why does it speak of God in third person?

That's part of eloquency in the arabic language. Did you know that the queen says 'we' when referring to herself? Is she lots of people in one, or is she saying that using eloquence?

The fact that the universe is vast is prosaic and obvious. There is no mention of expanding universe in this verse. Any illiterate man could look around himself and see the world is vast. To the ancient people even the Earth looked vast. To us it looks very small. Some modern translators of the Quran have tried to give a scientific spin to the Quran and have translated the word continuity stating that the universe is expanding. This is not true. The word مُوسِعُونَhas no such connotation

Again, refer to sister PurestAmbrosia's post.

the science in the qu'ran is nothing spectacular at all.

Again, bring your proof if you're truthful. All you're trying to do is be a pro at the Qur'an when you have nothing to argue with, you just want to go on anti islamic sites to try to 'prove' islaam wrong when infact you're not good at it at all.

Maybe you could explain to us how the bible is so miraculous?

sorry if i'm offending anyone, i am just stating my opinion.

No, you're just purposelly attacking islaam without any knowledge - and you know it.

 

[جوري]

وَسَّعَ a derivative of the word لَمُوسِعُونَ for any native speakers if you strip it of the Lam the meem (deeming us) ( the polite version) contrast to someone using vous or Tu in French will know that Vous denotes respect while tu is the vernacular.. that isn't the point here but thought I'd add it to the one who questions why G-D speaks in a particular tongue first person or third person...
وَسَّعَ from لَمُوسِعُونَspace , split , let , broaden , dedicate , open out , widen , space out , clear a passage for , make wide or spacious , open up , make room for , make wide or spacious , step aside for , expand

described here as a (fi3l) i.e verb

you can use this online dictionary, though deficient it serves its purpose if you can understand a word that is un-conjugated , but given that three of four sources already attesting to "expansion and وَسَّعَ" aren't sufficient and everyone is oh such a textual expert .. if you don't wish to shell out big bucks for a proper dictionary... you can see in plain site it says expand... http://dictionary.sakhr.com/idrisidic_2MM.asp?Lang=E-A&sub=????????

peace

 

[Nσσя'υℓ Jαииαн]

This is not so. Muhammad is simply saying that the universe is vast and not that it is expanding. This verse reads:

وَالسَّمَاء بَنَيْنَاهَا بِأَيْدٍ وَإِنَّا لَمُوسِعُونَ

See how this is translated:
YUSUFALI: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.
PICKTHAL: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).
SHAKIR: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.

The fact that the universe is vast is prosaic and obvious. There is no mention of expanding universe in this verse. Any illiterate man could look around himself and see the world is vast. To the ancient people even the Earth looked vast. To us it looks very small. Some modern translators of the Quran have tried to give a scientific spin to the Quran and have translated the word continuity stating that the universe is expanding. This is not true. The word مُوسِعُونَhas no such connotation

Lol, thats not even you writing that. Thats the only part where the Q in Qur'an is capitalized and the M in Muhammad(saw). You dont even know the purpose of the We, so I highly doubt you know what the Arabic says.

 

[rav]

You really think? Let's listen to how it sounds:

Excuse me for asking what may seem to you as a very dense question, but what exactly does the way it "sounds" have anything to do with if it is poetic?

 

[جوري]

This guy just has a really bad case of mythomania before it was about 3ad and thamud... stating the Jews said it first, funny enough citing an Islamic source, not a Jewish one. Just makes up stories as he goes along
The ever changing Christianity fosters his life style, so long as they turn the other cheek to what is considered blatantly a cardinal sin in all organized religions and ideologies then he is happy with it and looking to create all sorts of lies. what a joke a religion to fit the tides of society-- a few yrs down the line-- murder will be allowed and he'll be jumping all over it, and making up new stories, like a big drama queen..

Don't take advantage of Muslims being kind and letting your ill thought posts stand un removed ... unlike my brothers and sisters here, I have absolutely no reservation on saying it like it.

peace!

 

[جوري]

Excuse me for asking what may seem to you as a very dense question, but what exactly does the way it "sounds" have anything to do with if it is poetic?

Arabic doesn't sound nice on its own (I personally like it) might not be a "romance language" but it is lovely to me, the Quran unlike the native tongue in which it is written-- sounds very poetic but in fact it isn't at all like a poem, it is scriptural. And nothing at the time or since has compared to it. A challenge from G-D was to ask the arab poets at the time to bring at least one sura like it, be it as short as suret Al kawthar, which is only three verses but none were able to-- There were times when people worshiped the Quran itself as an entity because they couldn't attribute it to a source..

As you can tell from the sound as recited, it might rhyme or flow like a beautiful poem, but the words as per translation speak of the day of judgement-- I believe that is what Bros. Fi sabililah is trying to say to correct a very unlikely story, made up by our mythomaniac friend.

I hope that answers your Q?

 

[rav]

Arabic doesn't sound nice on its own (I personally like it) might not be a "romance language" but it is lovely to me, the Quran unlike the native tongue in which it is written-- sounds very poetic but in fact it isn't at all like a poem, it is scriptural. And nothing at the time or since has compared to it. A challenge from G-D was to ask the arab poets at the time to bring at least one sura like it, be it as short as suret Al kawthar, which is only three verses but none were able to-- There were times when people worshiped the Quran itself as an entity because they couldn't attribute it to a source..

As you can tell from the sound as recited, it might rhyme or flow like a beautiful poem, but the words as per translation speak of the day of judgment-- I believe that is what Bros. Fi sabililah is trying to say to correct a very unlikely story, made up by our mythomaniac friend.

I hope that answers your Q?

Shalom Aleichem,

I personally after listening to the Arabic words about five times, felt it had more to do with the actual “reciter” of the verse. Hebrew is not the most appealing language either, but the Torah flows when you have a great “reciter”. However the main apprehension I held was that whenever I hear anything recited by someone who has such a great tone of voice in Arabic (I have listened to some vocalists of the Torah, and other Hebrew texts in Arabic), it seems the same as the Quran would sound, although, to be honest, I have not heard the Quran to a great extent. It sounds like it is regarded as a great poetic work and when recited correctly can be attractive; in which my examination of the Torah when recited is the exact same way. An inquiry I have is, what precisely is the main difference between classical and modern Arabic? As for the discussion on if the poetic language of the Quran is a miracle or not, I am not here to dispute your religion, nor argue with you, so I will maneuver around having to get into a dispute which will only lead us to a stand-still and negative feelings which are superfluous, and will just have us squander precious time.

 

[جوري]

Shalom Aleichem,

I personally after listening to the Arabic words about five times, felt it had more to do with the actual “reciter” of the verse. Hebrew is not the most appealing language either, but the Torah flows when you have a great “reciter”. However the main apprehension I held was that whenever I hear anything recited by someone who has such a great tone of voice in Arabic (I have listened to some vocalists of the Torah, and other Hebrew texts in Arabic), it seems the same as the Quran would sound, although, to be honest, I have not heard the Quran to a great extent. It sounds like it is regarded as a great poetic work and when recited correctly can be attractive; in which my examination of the Torah when recited is the exact same way. An inquiry I have is, what precisely is the main difference between classical and modern Arabic? As for the discussion on if the poetic language of the Quran is a miracle or not, I am not here to dispute your religion, nor argue with you, so I will maneuver around having to get into a dispute which will only lead us to a stand-still and negative feelings which are superfluous, and will just have us squander precious time.

salaam A'lykoum Rav:

True.. recitors can make a difference but the overall feeling is the same, whether you have an inclination for one recitor or another...if you yourself were to read a random sura, you'd get a feeling from the beginning and the ending of the words. I can go into more details on that considering, the way the Quran was revealed isn't the way it is presented today, and what I mean by that is... For instance you can take a particular chapter, historically it can be both (makkya) or (madanya) or both and the verses can possibly be revealed 22 years apart yet, when meant for a particular chapter, you'll find in context, rhyme and meaning will be very fluid, it is not remotely comparable to the Hadiths which are the spoken words of prophet Mohammed PBUH. If prophet Mohammed were to recite his own hadiths, though still in Arabic, is nothing like Quranic text. You don't need to be a textual scholar to appreciate that, but in the very least you need to speak Arabic.

As per the middle part of your post, Hebrew and Arabic are sister languages as well as Aramaic. and I have no doubt in my mind that it would sound similar when recited, considering the Torah is also a book from G-D, Our dear member Lavikor posted a prayer tape here not so long ago of himself, and if you are far away listening it is almost indistinguishable from Arabic prayer... When I played it for my bros. his first instinct were of Friday prayer at some Mosque... when in fact it was Jewish...

I thank you for the last part.. and leave you with these two verse from the Quran
"For each we have appointed a divine law and traced out the way. Had Allah willed He could have made you one community. But that He may try you by that which He hath given you He made you as ye are. So vie one with another in good works. Unto Allah ye will all return, and will then inform you of that wherein ye differ." -- 5:48

"Do not dispute with the people of the Book [Jews, Christians, Sabeans], unless it be in a way that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which has been revealed unto us, and revealed unto you; our God and your God is One, and unto Him we surrender." -- 29:46

peace!

 

[جوري]

The Arabic word lamuusi3uun(a) لَمُوسِعُونَ (the final "a" is not pronounced at pause) is the intensive prefix "la-" followed by muusi3uun which is not a verb actually but a plural active participle of the verb awsa3a which means to make vast.

So the name muusi3 in the singular means "he who makes things vast". It has also some derived meanings as "he who is rich" or "he who is able to do something".

The Arabic "wainnaa lamuusi3uuna" translates literally as "and We (=God) (are) indeed makers of vast things" or "givers of vastness to things" or as Shakir says "the makers of things ample".

That is the literal meaning. Most translators prefer to translate by a verb like to expand or to spread out.

BTW, though, I have already answered you extensively in various posts (having included sources) & don't care to extend myself further-- .. I must ask you to clarify a few points that you have kindly brought to our attention-- first-- where do you see the "A" consonant in (لَمُوسِعُونَ)? to deem it silent or not? lamuusi3uun(a)? everyone knows that, that word is ending with a (noon) ن not an alif أ ( we have no vowels in Arabic) if you care to give us a lesson on (fat'ha, dama, kasra, shadda, and sikoon) as pertains to grammar and their usage, then pls go ahead. Admittedly I can't wait to be dazzled by your expertise...Also when you have a (fatiha) it isn't silent the whole point of a fati'ha is to make the (a) sound otherwise you'd have a SUKOUN = Used for consonants lacking a vowel after them. looks like a tiny little O instead rather than an opened dash ... While at it, won't you please tell us, why this liberal usage of number (3) to lamuusi(3)uun(a) or awsa(3)a? What do you mean by it? kindly refrain from running to your first "trusty" helper, as he or she hasn't gotten you very far.... The letter 3 or 7 or 6 or any of the others I have used will not be found in any respectful dictionary!

I can very much conclude with certainty that, you didn't get your preferred definition from a respectful source...

I will not get into what these numbers mean, ... but pls show some consistency when making a point... it is terribly embarrassing to go so far and still not be able to bring a presentable piece of evidence to the table.

peace!

 

[thirdwatch512]

Jesus son of Mary and Moses did many miracles, and there followers depended upon them alot more. We don't need to see Moses split up the sea, nor do we need to see Jesus son of Mary cure the leper or the blind, the Qur'an in itself is a miracle and we believe in it. So in reality - we don't dpeend on the miracles which they perform, rather we depend on the message which is given - worship the One God, our Creator, Sustainer and Provider. And that is much more believable than claiming that One God is in three parts, and then dying.

Jesus was the son of Moses? wow, i never knew that. i always thought it was Joseph who raise Jesus. hmm, interesting.. moses came thousands of years before Mary.. hmmm.... ??

No it hasn't.

well show me science that hasn't been debunked in the qu'ran.

You really think so? The arabs were an illiterate nation, and the superpowers at that time [the Byzantinian Romans, and the Persian Sassanids] thought them to be of the most ignorant of people - so they never even bothered to translate their works to them.

oh please, we all know that the arabs were known for their astronomy and science, and poetry.

Yeah, thats why the arabs who were well known for poetry couldn't even bring forward one chapter like the Qur'an? Why was that if they were the most poetic of people? That is because the Qur'an is revelation from God, and you havn't proved at all how it's not. And guess what? It's much more clearer than the bible, especially when Jesus son of Mary never even tells people to worship him at all.

oh, is that so? because there are about 12 verses inthe bible of jesus being worshipped. and Jesus never opposed to it. ever. and if you know the Bible, you know that if people did something wrong, Jesus would try to correct them.

People in the Bible even call Jesus God! there's a dude named David in the Bible who did, Matthew did, John did, and many more times!

You really think? Let's listen to how it sounds:

http://sabbir.com/Media/Quran/As-Sayefh/101 Al Qari'ah.mp3Surah Qari'a [101 - Qur'an]

http://sabbir.com/DownloadHalal.html

nothing fantastic about that.

Are you just trying to say that out of ignorance? Study the sciences of the arabic language and then come back.

here's one of the "you must know arabic" claims people make to try and defend their religion when they have no other way to.

It's explained by sister PurestAmbrosia, she's an arabic speaker. I think you're not, especially because of your claim:

oh, so she knows more then the other arabic translators?? quran 51:47 says the heaven expands. what does that have to do exactly with the UNIVERSE? plus, let's not forget the verse right after that..

And the Earth - we have stretched it out like a carpet; and how smoothly have we spread it forth!

oh, is the earth expanding too!!

That's part of eloquency in the arabic language. Did you know that the queen says 'we' when referring to herself? Is she lots of people in one, or is she saying that using eloquence?

once again, the "have to know arabic" claim. if arabic all of a sudden make sislam just sooo amazing, why is 10% of egypt christian? why do 600,000 people in africa convert to christianity each year!! (btw, that's coming from an ISLAMIC source too!)

Again, refer to sister PurestAmbrosia's post.

already have

Again, bring your proof if you're truthful. All you're trying to do is be a pro at the Qur'an when you have nothing to argue with, you just want to go on anti islamic sites to try to 'prove' islaam wrong when infact you're not good at it at all.

how about YOU show me some so called science in the qu'ran, and let's see what i can't debunk. go ahead.. paste articles, give me links, do anything. let's see what won't get debunked.

Maybe you could explain to us how the bible is so miraculous?

oh gosh,here's the "prove your religion is better then mine" thing..
the Bible isn't a scientific book. it's not made for science. it's made as a message from God. we(christians) don't need science in our book. we don't need it to be poetic to make people believe. it's the message that counts.. the message to love God.

the problem i see with islam in the future, is people are beginning to base it soley and science and nothing else. which, will eventually take away the faith values of it.

No, you're just purposelly attacking islaam without any knowledge - and you know it.

i'm not attacking islam. i'm merely stating my beliefs. you need to learn to accept that people don't always believe what you do. and people won't always agree with you.

 

[جوري]

No one is asking you to agree or disagree... but just write legitimate statements, not fallacies!... you are a dynamo of a hyperbole!

 

[rav]

I hope to end this dispute by quoting Pirkei Avos Chapter 2, Mishna 16:

"Rabbi Yehoshua said: An evil eye, the evil inclination, and hatred of others (lit., of the creations) remove a person from the world."
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On this note, I wish to remind people that life is far too short to bitterly argue over such inconsequential things. I would also like to leave you all with a quote from (Mishlei 20:3):

It is honor for a man to refrain from quarreling, and every fool [who does not refrain from quarreling] will be exposed.
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Although I will quarrel on a very important matter, I strive to cease doing so in trivial matters. With that, I will say good night to you all, and pleasant dreams.