The scientific miracles of the Quran.

[Philosopher]

I hope to end this dispute by quoting Pirkei Avos Chapter 2, Mishna 16:

"Rabbi Yehoshua said: An evil eye, the evil inclination, and hatred of others (lit., of the creations) remove a person from the world."
​

On this note, I wish to remind people that life is far too short to bitterly argue over such inconsequential things. I would also like to leave you all with a quote from (Mishlei 20:3):

It is honor for a man to refrain from quarreling, and every fool [who does not refrain from quarreling] will be exposed.
​

Although I will quarrel on a very important matter, I strive to cease doing so in trivial matters. With that, I will say good night to you all, and pleasant dreams.

LOL.....way to leave by posting irrelevant quotes

 

[thirdwatch512]

phiolosopher - your signature is TOTALLY WRONG. that's NOT what it means at all..

what matthew 10:34-36 is talking about, is that when Jesus comes, families will be divided on whether to accept Him or not.

This is taken from Mic_7:6. Christ did not here mean to say that the object of his coming was to produce discord and contention, for he was the Prince of Peace, Isa_9:6; Isa_11:6; Luk_2:14; but he means to say that such would be one of the effects of his coming.

notice that jesus says A sword and not THE sword.

the Bible is very symbolic. please remember that, and maybe read some commentary.

 

[جوري]

I just read your miserable other post... and I really don't even wish to dignify you with a response.. But will say this much-- Yes, I know Arabic better than the translators... One thing Arabic is my mother tongue... though I appreciate all the effort the translators have under taken to translate... none of them save the last (Shakir) was a native speaker, and he borrowed YusufAli's work simply making it modern English. If you'd read anything at all or did a simple google search you'd have already learned that .. You are very under educated... I hazard say even in your own bible... so DON'T come arguing Islam when the very basics of your own religion.. you ignore!
Lev. 18:22, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev. 20:13, "If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltness is upon them"

1 Cor. 6:9-10, "Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

Rom. 1:26-28, "For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, 27and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. 28And just as they did not see fit to acknowledge God any longer, God gave them over to a depraved mind, to do those things which are not proper."

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God.

Maybe your priest can absolve you.. who knows maybe he can speak on your behalf on the day of judgement or maybe he can become your "Sin Eater"?...



Good night!

 

[Philosopher]

Homosexuality is clearly condemned by the Bible. It goes against the created order of God.

No, it's not.

 

[جوري]

No, it's not.

It is celebrated and encouraged? I must have misunderstood the verses?

 

[Philosopher]

It is celebrated and encouraged? I must have misunderstood the verses?

There's a reason why there are gay priests in churches.

 

[جوري]

There's a reason why there are gay priests in churches.

Indeed... I had no idea the bible and and Christianity was so allowing... forgive me!... let homosexual/pedophile priests go after more alter boys-- and the folks they foster continue on the path of the righteous.

peace!

 

[Philosopher]

Indeed... I had no idea the bible and and Christianity was so allowing... forgive me!... let homosexual/pedophile priests go after more alter boys-- and the folks they foster continue on the path of the righteous.

peace!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6119226.stm

 

[Muslim Knight]

Maybe homosexuality is condemned in the Bible but hey, since those priests are vested with power to absolve sins why can they be absolving their own each and everytime after? Pretty much the convenience.

 

[جوري]

I'd hate to be tit for tat with this guy... he just got on my nerves and I am known to have a temper... (Need to work on it :-[ ). If I am needed as to translate verses or offer an opinion as far as science or (science as pertains to the Quran) .. then I'll happily oblige... I don't wish to engage him in vain discourse... It is a bad vortex and it really doesn't contribute to my life positively

 

[Philosopher]

I'd hate to be tit for tat with this guy... he just got on my nerves and I am known to have a temper... (Need to work on it :-[ ). If I am needed as to translate verses or offer an opinion as far as science or (science as pertains to the Quran) .. then I'll happily oblige... I don't wish to engage him in vain discourse... It is a bad vortex and it really doesn't contribute to my life positively

Listen woman, you need to be more obedient to your male counterpart.

 

[جوري]

Who is my male counterpart?

 

[Philosopher]

Who is my male counterpart?

Males in general.

 

[جوري]

I have been épée fencing since I was in junior high school... If I am going to be "obedient" it had in the least better be earned by the so-called "counterpart" .... We have been so derailed far off topic here...
let's steer this back to original post...

gnight All

 

[Hemoo]

well show me science that hasn't been debunked in the qu'ran.

visit this thread and you will see both historical and scientific accuracy in the Holy Quran.

http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...orical-scientific-accuracy-amazing-quran.html

it will also be a good thing if you help bring up this thread to the first page.

 

[Cyril]

BTW, though, I have already answered you extensively in various posts (having included sources) & don't care to extend myself further-- .. I must ask you to clarify a few points that you have kindly brought to our attention-- first-- where do you see the "A" consonant in (لَمُوسِعُونَ)?

Excuse me in advance if I'll make some mistakes as I cannot correct my posts yet because I'm a newcomer on this forum.

The "a" is not a consonant but a vowel.
Where do I see it? I must say I find that question very strange if you can write and read Arabic.
The "a" is the fatHa at the end of muusi3uuna.

(you must have noticed that I transcribe emphatics with a capital letter and I duplicate long vowels. I use the same "3" as you do for 3ayn)

everyone knows that, that word is ending with a (noon) ن not an alif أ

Who said there is an alif at the end? I don't see any. Again I find that remark of yours rather strange.

( we have no vowels in Arabic)

You must be joking. There are six plain vowels in Classical Arabic "a", "i" and "u" and their long versions. Besides you find diphtongs which combine two vowels and two semi-consonants which can be either a consonant or a vowel, the "w" and the "y".

While at it, won't you please tell us, why this liberal usage of number (3) to lamuusi(3)uun(a) or awsa(3)a? What do you mean by it?

Have you forgotten that you have used that letter in your post? Here it is: "lamowso3oon".

If you know anything about transcription you must know that some Arabic sounds do not exist in the Western languages. So there are no way to type them properly with Western keyboards. The number "3" has been chosen by many for convenience's sake for the Arabic 3ayn because it looks similar to that Arabic letter.

If an Arabic word contains a 3ayn I must write it as many times that word is used. I cannot drop a letter (especially a consonant) just because it would hurt somebody's eye.

kindly refrain from running to your first "trusty" helper, as he or she hasn't gotten you very far....

I don't understand what you mean.

The letter 3 or 7 or 6 or any of the others I have used will not be found in any respectful dictionary!

We all know that. Dictionaries and scholarly works use ALA-LC or DIN romanization systems for example.

I can very much conclude with certainty that, you didn't get your preferred definition from a respectful source...

I got what you call "my preferred definition" from the Arabic grammar and the Hans Wehr dictionary among others.

I will not get into what these numbers mean, ... but pls show some consistency when making a point...

Are you projecting? Attributing to me what you think of yourself?

it is terribly embarrassing to go so far and still not be able to bring a presentable piece of evidence to the table.
peace!

I don't see where there is an embarrassment.

 

[- Qatada -]

Jesus was the son of Moses? wow, i never knew that. i always thought it was Joseph who raise Jesus. hmm, interesting.. moses came thousands of years before Mary.. hmmm.... ??

You're purposelly trying to avoid the issue aren't you? I never said Jesus was son of Moses, i mentioned them both specifically to show you that they did many miracles.

well show me science that hasn't been debunked in the qu'ran.

You're the one making the claim, you're required to put forward your evidences.

oh please, we all know that the arabs were known for their astronomy and science, and poetry.

Oh seriosly? Yeah - their poetry, the others i'm not too sure about. If that is so - bring forward evidences. Again, the majority of the arabs were an illiterate people.

oh, is that so? because there are about 12 verses inthe bible of jesus being worshipped. and Jesus never opposed to it. ever. and if you know the Bible, you know that if people did something wrong, Jesus would try to correct them.

No, i want proof that Jesus son of Mary ordered people to worship him. Since you guys claim he's god all the time right?

People in the Bible even call Jesus God! there's a dude named David in the Bible who did, Matthew did, John did, and many more times!

Did Jesus call himself a god? And did he ask people to worship him? He never since he is a Messenger like the Messengers' before, the only difference is that he was born of a miraculous birth - however Adam was created without a father nor a mother, yet he isn't classed as God. Nor does God die.

nothing fantastic about that.

Maybe you could truely show me what fantastic is then?

here's one of the "you must know arabic" claims people make to try and defend their religion when they have no other way to.

Okay, sure. Maybe you've never noticed, but we have our book in the original language. Something which you don't even have right? Maybe that's why we depend on the original language more, since that's how God revealed it to His Messengers'.

oh, so she knows more then the other arabic translators?? quran 51:47 says the heaven expands. what does that have to do exactly with the UNIVERSE? plus, let's not forget the verse right after that..

And the Earth - we have stretched it out like a carpet; and how smoothly have we spread it forth!

oh, is the earth expanding too!!

That's pure ignorance. The heaven refers to the universe. And the carpet on earth is referring to the earth being spread out for us.


Again, look at what the original poster said:

THE LAYERS OF THE ATMOSPHERE

One fact about the universe revealed in the verses of the Qur'an is that the sky is made up of seven layers:

It is He Who created everything on the earth for you and then directed His attention up to heaven and arranged it into seven regular heavens. He has knowledge of all things. (Qur'an, 2:29)

Then He turned to heaven when it was smoke. In two days He determined them as seven heavens and revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate. (Qur'an, 41:11-12)

The word "heavens," which appears in many verses in the Qur'an, is used to refer to the sky above the Earth, as well as the entire universe. Given this meaning of the word, it is seen that the Earth's sky, or the atmosphere, is made up of seven layers.

Today, it is known that the world's atmosphere consists of different layers that lie on top of each other.19 Based on the criteria of chemical contents or air temperature, the definitions made have determined the atmosphere of the earth as seven layers.20 According to the "Limited Fine Mesh Model (LFMMII)," a model of atmosphere used to estimate weather conditions for 48 hours, the atmosphere is also 7 layers. According to the modern geological definitions the seven layers of atmosphere are as follows:

1. Troposphere

2. Stratosphere

3. Mesosphere

4. Thermosphere

5. Exosphere

6. Ionosphere

7. Magnetosphere

The Qur'an says, "[He] revealed, in every heaven, its own mandate," in Surah Fussilat 12. In other words, Allah is stating that He assigned each heaven its own duty. Truly, as will be seen in following chapters, each one of these layers has vital duties for the benefit of human kind and all other living things on the Earth. Each layer has a particular function, ranging from forming rain to preventing harmful rays, from reflecting radio waves to averting the harmful effects of meteors.

The verses below inform us about the appearance of the seven layers of the atmosphere:

Do you not see how He created seven heavens in layers? (Qur'an, 71:15)

He Who created the seven heavens in layers… (Qur'an, 67:3)

The Arabic word "tibaqan" in these verses, translated into English as "layer" means "layer, the appropriate cover or covering for something," and thus stresses how the top layer is well suited to the lower. The word is also used in the plural here: "layers." The sky, described in the verse as being in layers, is without doubt the most perfect expression of the atmosphere. It is a great miracle that these facts, which could not possibly be discovered without the technology of the 20th century, were explicitly stated by the Qur'an 1,400 years ago.

once again, the "have to know arabic" claim.

I gave you proof from the english language, i think you still never understood that.

That's part of eloquency in the arabic language. Did you know that the queen says 'we' when referring to herself? Is she lots of people in one, or is she saying that using eloquence?

if arabic all of a sudden make sislam just sooo amazing, why is 10% of egypt christian? why do 600,000 people in africa convert to christianity each year!! (btw, that's coming from an ISLAMIC source too!)

First of all, when Islaam settled in Egypt - the muslims never forced the copts to become christian [there is no compulsion in religion (Qur'an 2:256).] So guess what? They remained christian.

Maybe we could go at it this way, name me one learned scholar on Islaam who became christian? I can name you loads of christian scholars who became muslim, and still are.

how about YOU show me some so called science in the qu'ran, and let's see what i can't debunk. go ahead.. paste articles, give me links, do anything. let's see what won't get debunked.

Theres loads of info on this thread already.

oh gosh,here's the "prove your religion is better then mine" thing..
the Bible isn't a scientific book. it's not made for science. it's made as a message from God. we(christians) don't need science in our book. we don't need it to be poetic to make people believe. it's the message that counts.. the message to love God.

Did i say the Qur'an was a science book? The Qur'an isn't revealed for that, rather it is the message of God to humanity. To tell them how to live with mankind and also their Sustainer, in kindness, peace and justice - each according to the right situation.

the problem i see with islam in the future, is people are beginning to base it soley and science and nothing else. which, will eventually take away the faith values of it.

Again, when did i say it was a science book? The facts mentioned within it fit in with logic and science, that shows that it is truely a book of God. Whereas christians can't even explain their main concept of 1+1+1= 1? Yet even a 3yr old knows that this concept doesn't make sense.

i'm not attacking islam. i'm merely stating my beliefs. you need to learn to accept that people don't always believe what you do. and people won't always agree with you.

I think you're the one who sparked this argument off in the first place, that's why bro Habeshi and i responded to it. You need to open your eyes abit more.



Regards.

 

[rav]

LOL.....way to leave by posting irrelevant quotes

Shalom Philosopher,

Although they may seem irrelevant to the naked eye, they are actually completely relevant in this thread. One speaks of hatred while the other speaks of fighting, and they are critical of the people who rely on them both. Both are traits that members are exhibiting towards each other in this current dialogue.

 

[- Qatada -]

Hey Cyril.


I think the issue you're referring to has already been discussed by a member titled: mansio, who also had a similar position to you.


Here's the link:
http://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/12240-miracles-quran-com.html


I think that this issue has been discussed quite deeply, and if anyone wants to discuss it further - it would be better that it's discussed within that thread.

The praise is for Allaah that bro Ansar's given a good refutation there.



Thanks in advance.

 

[Cyril]

The praise is for Allaah that bro Ansar's given a good refutation there.
Thanks in advance.

I don't see any point for refutation. We have the Arabic Quran as the basis for discussion.

No one can have the Quran say another thing than what it says.