The Story Behind Surah At-Tahrim

[HeiGou]

Re: lying to the wife

thats not right!
Firstly I personally dont think this fairy tale to be authentic.
Secondly it was legal .

I agree it was legal - and the first part of the verse says Muhammed in order to pelase his wives promised not to do something that was legal. For which God reprimanded him. The question is what. Now this may be a fairy tale, but there must be thousands of works on explaining what this verse means and how it was revealed. God talked to Muhammed. Everything He says is important. Do you know the circumstances in which this verse was revealed? Interestingly, and I don't know what the Muslim position is, doesn't this Sura suggest that God told Muhammed things that were not in the Quran?

 

[HeiGou]

Re: lying to the wife

HeiGou could you quote the reference to what you're referring to? As i mentioned i don't know what you're referring to. Does anyone over here have an authentic reference to what HeiGou is talking about? much appreciated if you could plug the text here... i think this is going to endup off topic.

Well I quoted the Sura. The problem is I am not sure that I could tell an Islamic site from a very clever anti-Islamic site. I have been burnt before. And I am quite happy with the level of my demerits as they are. I do not care to add to them. So if this is not widely known and easily answered by Muslims, I am happy to leave it well alone before I get banned.

 

[Noora_z3]

Re: lying to the wife

HeiGou
The story I heard regarding this verse was that Muhammed promised not to have sexual relations with Mariya, but did anyway and got caught. Thus the sex was the thing mentioned in the first part that was legal but which, to please his wives, he promised not to do. Clearly something upset Hafsa and it could not merely have been the fact that Muhammed was having sex with another woman as they all lived in a polygamous society.

First of All bro, u got the story bit wrong, Prophet Muhammad didnt make any promise in the begnning, actually non of his wife knew bout him having sextual relations with Mariyah, wat happend is, as follow:

Prophet Muhammad peace be upon him was at Hafsa's, she asked his permission to visite her parents, so he agreed. Wen she left he called Mariyah n had sextual relaition with her, Hafsa came back n found Maryah in her house (she didnt knew or any one else at that point that Prophet Muhammad has a jariah). So she got very jealous n said to the Prophet that you brought her to my house n used my own bed?! I see that u only did that coz I am not so valued by u. So rpophet Muhammad peace be upon him didnt like to hurt her, so he made an oath that He wont do it again (wont sleep with Maryah again). N he ordered her not to tell any one bout this, asked her to keep it a secret.
But the minute Prophet Muhammad left her, she went to Aysha n told her the whole story.

066.001
YUSUFALI: O Prophet! Why holdest thou to be forbidden that which Allah has made lawful to thee? Thou seekest to please thy consorts. But Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

This verse refers to the fact that Prophet Muhammad prohibite something on himself which is permitted just to please his wives. (u got it right here)

066.002
YUSUFALI: Allah has already ordained for you, (O men), the dissolution of your oaths (in some cases): and Allah is your Protector, and He is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.

N here Allah says to Muhammad that He already ordained for you, the dissolution of your oaths (promise which wouldnt be pleasing to Allah or promises that cant be fulllfilled)

066.003
YUSUFALI: When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence to one of his consorts, and she then divulged it (to another), and Allah made it known to him, he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part. Then when he told her thereof, she said, "Who told thee this? "He said, "He told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)."

here Allah is stating but not in so much detail the story which caused the first 2 verses to be revealed n the whole chapter in this matter.
(When the Prophet disclosed a matter in confidence) the matter discolosed is that he is having sextual relaitinoship with Mariayh, which he didnt disclose it to any one before Hafsa found her in her house.

(to one of his consorts) That is to his Wife Hafsa.

(and Allah made it known to him) Allah send his angel Jebrail n infromed Muhammad that his wife disclosed the secret to Aysha.

(he confirmed part thereof and repudiated a part) first of All, this is not an accurate transelation of the verse, I think this is wat made u get all confused. I was referring to the Arabic Tafsir n found that this transelation u used is not right, so I am using another transelation which is more accurate.
(He made known part of it and ignored a part) Which means that wen prophet Muhammad was informed that his secret got out, he went to Hafsa n told her that he knew that she discolosed his secret. He didnt mention to Hafsa all that she said to Aysha, he mentioned a part of the dsiclosed secret n ignored the other part which she also disclosed.

Then when he told her thereof, she said, "Who told thee this? "He said, "He told me Who knows and is well-acquainted (with all things)."

So she was surprised n asked him who told u this?! she wanted to make sure if Aysha is the one who told prophet Muhammad or not. heanswerd that he was infromed by Allah.

So the reason of the revelation was stated by Allah after ordering Muhammad to break his promise.

bro HeiGou, I hope I managed to make u understand this matter, in short Prophet Muhammad didnt lie, after he was cought he promised Hafsa that he wont get close to Maryah again, so Allah revealed that he shouldnt make promises just to please his wives, based on that his promise is invalied in the first place. Now did prophet Muhammad after the revelation of this verse n fter all his wives knew bout this story slept again with Maryah?! thats I dont know, need to do some research.

 

[Nicola]

Re: lying to the wife

How many wives had Mohammed got at the time...when he was caught with his slave?

 

[Noora_z3]

Re: lying to the wife

thats not right!
Firstly I personally dont think this fairy tale to be authentic.
Secondly it was legal .

Bro, wat we personally think or feel got nothing to do with it. This story was authinticated by many Mufassireen.

 

[lolwatever]

Re: lying to the wife

Interesting, never knew about that Noora, so That'sssss what the verse was referring to... i can almost swear i heard something of some sort some looooooong time back about it
thanks for the information

 

[Muslim Soldier]

Re: lying to the wife

Interesting, never knew about that Noora, so That'sssss what the verse was referring to... i can almost swear i heard something of some sort some looooooong time back about it
thanks for the information

Its a fairy tale

 

[lolwatever]

Re: lying to the wife

Fairy tale? Fairies narrated the story?

 

[lolwatever]

Re: lying to the wife

ok b4 anyone thinks im a nitwit, i was just being cynical there...
Muslim Soldier, you can't just go labelling incidents as fairy tales because they don't appeal to you.

The prophet is a role model for us, he's a practical example that we should follow. There where many incidents similar to this where Allah SWT made a point out of some of the prophets actions and corrected him, so that we can learn from a live scene.

The prophet was a human just like us, he ate, married and done normal thigns that any normal person would do. Allah also corrected the prophet in the case of the Blind man (Ibn Umm Maktoom), as well as in the case of the prisoners of the Battle of Badr as well as a fwe other cases.

We can't just brush them aside as being fairy tales, because they are documented authentic narrations. Muslim's have a pretty strict methodology in authenticating narrations and stories, so much so that even some of the famous "mustash-riqeen" (people who try learn about the religion to find faults in it) said "Let the Muslims boast as much as they want about their techniques of narration validation".

The hadith that Noora posted doesnt at all imply that the prophet was bad or anything, it just describes how Hafsa got jealous of the prophet for engaging in a relation with Maryah during the time that was suppose to be for her, and so the prophet (trying to please Hafsa) promised he won't do such thing any more, And Allah intervened and corrected the situation.

Because if the prophet's statement was not corrected, Muslims might think that having intercourse with their jariyah is a sin or something of that sort, and people who come after might even try to pick on the prophet and accuse him of wrong things, so Allah with his wisdom cleared the situation from the very beginning in order for the case to be clear as daylight.

 

[HeiGou]

Re: lying to the wife

bro HeiGou, I hope I managed to make u understand this matter, in short Prophet Muhammad didnt lie, after he was cought he promised Hafsa that he wont get close to Maryah again, so Allah revealed that he shouldnt make promises just to please his wives, based on that his promise is invalied in the first place. Now did prophet Muhammad after the revelation of this verse n fter all his wives knew bout this story slept again with Maryah?! thats I dont know, need to do some research.

Just in case there is some confusion I am not a Muslim. Just thought I would point that out.

I don't really understand this matter to be honest. The more I think about it, the more questions I have. One that leaps to mind is why was the promise so wrong? Husbands can promise in their wedding contracts not to marry again. Can't they promise not to sleep with any slave girls they may have? Those promises are legally binding aren't they? Was Muhammed obligated to sleep with Mariya - or indeed with every woman he was legally allowed to? I do not understand that at all. But as I said, I think my contribution to this has gone on long enough.

Wasn't Mariya the mother of his son Ibrahim? If so that would suggest something.

 

[lolwatever]

Re: lying to the wife

Heigou

I don't know if Mariya was the mother of Ibrahim (i think she was, cant recall xactly tho).

About your quesiton "Was Muhammed obligated to sleep with Mariya - or indeed with every woman he was legally allowed to?"

The prophet did spend one night at each of his wives places as the hadith's do indicate, that's from a justice point of view (if you're going to marry more than one, you need to treat each wife equally as far as provision you provide them, time allocated to them, gifts you give, etc etc). It definately doesn't mean he had to have a relationship which each of them on each night!

As far as the Prophets oath was concerned, Allah said "lima tuharrimu maa ahallalahu lak" - Why do you forbid what Allah has made permissible for you... So it's not so much that the prophet just refused to sleep with her, but he considered it forbidden.

From another point of view, what prophets do is more than a matter of whether they do it or not, it is the basis for whether something can be considered makrooh (disliked - almost like a sin) or mubah (permissible) or mustahabb (recomended), so when the prophet refused to eat garlic or onion, it was the basis for them two things being makrooh, and when the prophet disagreed with Umar in the battle of badr that too could have lended to the case of war prisoners being given capital punishment as makrooh.

So Allah intervened to make sure that the likewise would not happen in both situations, He sent a verse correcting the prophet about making an oath to be fully removed from the Jariah, as well as a verse correcting the prophet about thinking that capital punishment wasn't the best solution in the battle of badr. And notice the prophet didnt say to Hafsa "I won't sleep with her during your time anymore", he promised to never get near her again. So they're two very different promises, each carrying a different implication.


Yes Muslims can specify things in their contracts as you mentioned.

I told you this was going to endup off topic if we didnt make it a new thread [grin]

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: lying to the wife

Hello HeiGou,

Ahh but at least it is on-topic this time!

In my opinion it isn't so I've split the thread and left the discussion on lying where it was; the discussion on this incident has been moved here.

Concerning the incident you mention:

Question: Assalamu Alaykum, I have heard some people circulating a story concerning Surah Tahrim that the Prophet Muhammad pbuh promised Hafsa that he would not have relations with Mariya, but then Hafsa caught him doing so, and then Allah revealed Surah Tahrim concerning this, saying that he was allowed to deceive his wives and break his promises. Is there any basis for this story or is it a fabrication and slander? What is the truth concerning this matter? JazakAllah khayr

Answered by the Fatwâ Department Research Committee of IslamToday chaired by Sheikh `Abd al-Wahhâb al-Turayrî

This story is incorrectly described in your question. The Prophet (peace be upon him) was divinely protected from falling into sin. Those who claim the Prophet (peace be upon him) promised Hafsah something and then deceived her behind her back are telling the gravest of lies.

The Qur'ân clearly states: "Why do you forbid that which Allah has allowed to you, seeking to please your wives?" [Sûrah al-Tahrîm: 1]

This verse lets us know that the Prophet (peace be upon him) was not involved in anything unlawful. Moreover, these verses tell him to break his oath and openly go back to doing what he had been doing before!

Scholars of tafsîr differ as to what the incident is that the verse is referring to.

Al-Tabarî relates that one view on the matter is that the problem between his wives involved Mâriyah the Copt, of whom Hafsah was supposedly jealous. According to them, the Prophet (peace be upon him) swore never to approach Mâriyah again in order to please Hafsah. This was narrated from Zayd b. Aslam, Masrûq, al-Dahhâk, and others.

Therefore, the Prophet (peace be upon him) had not promised Hafsah anything and then acted behind her back. He swore he would not approach Mâriyah and he did not approach her after that until after Allah had reprimanded him in the verse.

Historians disagree whether Mâriyah was married to Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) or whether she was his slave girl, though the strongest view is that he had married her. Either way, she was lawful to him according to the laws of Islam. She was a gift from the governor of Egypt to the Prophet (peace be upon him) and she had most certainly accepted Islam. She was the mother of his son Ibrâhîm.

Other scholars say the issue being referred to is a beverage that the Prophet (peace be upon him) liked to drink. This is narrated from `Abd Allah b. Shidâd and Ibn Abî Mulaykah.

After mentioning these views, al-Tabarî concludes: 'The correct thing to say is that the Prophet (peace be upon him) had forbidden for himself something that Allah had made permissible - it might be his slave girl, a beverage, or something else - in any event was a situation where he made something unlawful that was lawful for him - so Allah rebuked him for making unlawful upon himself what He had made lawful for him and explained to him how to expiate for his oath that he had made to prohibit that thing upon himself.' [Tafsîr al-Tabarî (12/150)]

We hope this answer has clarified to you the source of the confusion and the nature of the distortion that has been made by those who claim that the Prophet (peace be upon him) was involved in any deception.

And Allah knows best.​

I am hoping Ansar will step in at some point and explain exactly what happened.

Well here I am. There is no doubt that the story in the manner that you have conveyed it is distorted and incorrect - most significant is the point that in bold in the above fatwa. The idea that he was 'caught' doing something is incorrect.

Regards

 

[HeiGou]

Re: lying to the wife

[Al-Tabarî relates that one view on the matter is that the problem between his wives involved Mâriyah the Copt, of whom Hafsah was supposedly jealous. According to them, the Prophet (peace be upon him) swore never to approach Mâriyah again in order to please Hafsah. This was narrated from Zayd b. Aslam, Masrûq, al-Dahhâk, and others.

Therefore, the Prophet (peace be upon him) had not promised Hafsah anything and then acted behind her back. He swore he would not approach Mâriyah and he did not approach her after that until after Allah had reprimanded him in the verse.

Well thank you for moving it and providing your usual exhaustive reply. Well not as exhaustive as usual - I am afraid I have one question, the first passage here seems to contradict the second passage. I know Tabari is not much of a source and this Forum in particular really does not like him, but that clearly says that Muhammed did promise Hafsa something - never to approach Mariya again. Now I can understand it if Tabari is just wrong, but putting these two passages together seems odd. May I ask you to clarify whether that first passage is, as obviously must be the case, wrong?

After mentioning these views, al-Tabarî concludes: 'The correct thing to say is that the Prophet (peace be upon him) had forbidden for himself something that Allah had made permissible - it might be his slave girl, a beverage, or something else - in any event was a situation where he made something unlawful that was lawful for him - so Allah rebuked him for making unlawful upon himself what He had made lawful for him and explained to him how to expiate for his oath that he had made to prohibit that thing upon himself.' [Tafsîr al-Tabarî (12/150)]

Although it still makes the general case seem odd. Suppose that Muhammed did make something lawful unlawful through an oath and God rebuked him for it. Does that mean that anything lawful was, essentially, complusory for Muhammed? What could he lawfully promise to do? It is an issue because husbands, I am told, can promise not to take a second wife in the wedding contracts. This seems similar to me in that it makes the lawful (polygamy) unlawful. And yet, obviously, such contracts are lawful. So I am a little confused about the logic of that - why isn't it wrong for any man to make unlawful something that is lawful for him?

There is no doubt that the story in the manner that you have conveyed it is distorted and incorrect - most significant is the point that in bold in the above fatwa. The idea that he was 'caught' doing something is incorrect.

Well it is close to Tabari's first account, but it was distorted. Clearly.

And as I said, thank you for the clarification.

 

[Ansar Al-'Adl]

Re: lying to the wife

Hello HeiGou,

I am afraid I have one question, the first passage here seems to contradict the second passage. I know Tabari is not much of a source and this Forum in particular really does not like him, but that clearly says that Muhammed did promise Hafsa something - never to approach Mariya again. Now I can understand it if Tabari is just wrong, but putting these two passages together seems odd. May I ask you to clarify whether that first passage is, as obviously must be the case, wrong?

Take another look at the fatwa:

Al-Tabarî relates that one view on the matter is that the problem between his wives involved Mâriyah the Copt, of whom Hafsah was supposedly jealous. According to them, the Prophet (peace be upon him) swore never to approach Mâriyah again in order to please Hafsah. This was narrated from Zayd b. Aslam, Masrûq, al-Dahhâk, and others.

Therefore, the Prophet (peace be upon him) had NOT promised Hafsah anything AND THEN ACTED BEHIND HER BACK. He swore he would not approach Mâriyah and he did not approach her after that until after Allah had reprimanded him in the verse.​

So according to this story the Prophet swore never to approach Mâriyah in order to please Hafsah, and he did not break this oath and deceive her. Instead, the divine revelation came from God dissolving the oath and reprimanding him for making unlawful what God had made lawful. So there is no contradiction between the two paragraphs. Both affirm that the Prophet made a promise to Hafsah for which he was reprimanded by God.

And just to correct another issue in your post,

I know Tabari is not much of a source and this Forum in particular really does not like him

This is not true. Imâm Ibn Jarîr At-Tabarî was one of the greatest Muslim scholars who gave excellent contributions to Tafsîr, jurisprudence and history - the thing is people misunderstand the intent of his works. Imam At-Tabarî says

Let him who examines this book of mine know that I have relied, as regards everything I mention therein which I stipulate to be described by me, solely upon what has been transmitted to me by way of reports which I cite therein and traditions which I ascribe to their narrators, to the exclusion of what may be apprehended by rational argument or deduced by the human mind, except in very few cases. This is because knowledge of the reports of men of the past and of contemporaneous views of men of the present do not reach the one who has not witnessed them nor lived in their times except through the accounts of reporters and the transmission of transmitters, to the exclusion of rational deduction and mental inference. Hence, if I mention in this book a report about some men of the past, which the reader of listener finds objectionable or worthy of censure because he can see no aspect of truth nor any factual substance therein, let him know that this is not to be attributed to us but to those who transmitted it to us and we have merely passed this on as it has been passed on to us. (Târîkh al-Tabarî, vol.1 pp. 13.)​

Although it still makes the general case seem odd. Suppose that Muhammed did make something lawful unlawful through an oath and God rebuked him for it. Does that mean that anything lawful was, essentially, complusory for Muhammed? What could he lawfully promise to do? It is an issue because husbands, I am told, can promise not to take a second wife in the wedding contracts. This seems similar to me in that it makes the lawful (polygamy) unlawful. And yet, obviously, such contracts are lawful. So I am a little confused about the logic of that - why isn't it wrong for any man to make unlawful something that is lawful for him?

First, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh had not made any such contract with Hafsa. Second, he was not compelled to have relations, the issue was that he had made it prohibited for himself to do such through his oath, not that he simply chose not to.

If it is still unclear, let me know and I will go into more depth, inshaa'Allah.

 

[Mohsin]

i think Hei-Gou was asking for us people, how is it that a contract can be made that we cant have more than one wife, isn't that making something lawful from allah unlawful