The trouble with prophets

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kool, so let's get this straight. You believe that this universe is eternal, and its just by coincidence that the universe formed in harmony
Formed? I believe the universe is eternal. It never formed; it's always existed.

- with order prevailing instead of chaos (surprising isn't it?),
Why would you assume a chaotic universe?

and furthermore this order is in such a state that it is able to produce life in such a way that scientists themselves are unable to do the same,
Why would the fact that scientists are (currently) unable to simulate the conditions that produced life mean that life never arose on its own?

but wait - let's look at the possibility of life coming into existence without the aid of control - the concept of abiogenesis;
As usual with religious people, your analysis is a dishonest caricature of how scientists actually think chemical evolution happened.

An average-sized protein molecule composed of 288 amino acids, and contains twelve different types of amino acids can be arranged in 10300 different ways. (This is an astronomically huge number, consisting of 1 followed by 300 zeros.) Of all these possible sequences, only one forms the desired protein molecule. The rest of them are amino-acid chains that are either totally useless or else potentially harmful to living things.
What utter nonsense. Nobody is saying that amino acides all the sudden arranged itself into useful protein molecules—amino acids are assembled into proteins based on DNA codes. Your author is calculating the odds of something that nobody is saying would happen.

Why on earth do you think this is at all relevant to abiogenesis?

When we proceed one step further in the evolutionary scheme of life, we observe that one single protein means nothing by itself. One of the smallest bacteria ever discovered, Mycoplasma hominis H39, contains 600 "types" of proteins. In this case, we would have to repeat the probability calculations we have made above for one protein for each of these 600 different types of proteins. The result beggars even the concept of impossibility.
Again, why on earth do you think this is relevant to abiogenesis? Amino acids don't arrange themselves.

Qatada, do you know how proteins are formed? I am not trying to be a jerk here; I will be glad to explain it to you (probably in another thread), and once you understand this mechanism of biology, then we can talk about how the DNA that encodes the protein might have arisen, how lipid membranes that enclose modern cells might have formed, etc—and you can make up your mind about the probability of this happening.

But it doesn't do you any good to talk about the probability of proteins spontaneously forming, because nobody thinks this is what actually happened. Okay?

Please don't quote me Miller, because his own teacher says the following (Miller himself later admitted his environment was false and not accurate);
The Miller-Urey experiments had nothing to do with proteins forming. They had to do with the formation of simpler hydrocarbons, including amino acids (which make up proteins).

All of us who study the origin of life find that the more we look into it, the more we feel it is too complex to have evolved anywhere.
"All of us?" Almost all biologists—whose job it is to study life—believe in chemical evolution or abiogenesis.

And besides, since you (or your source) apparently don't even know how proteins form, you're not in a position to comment on the scholarship.

Again, I don't say this to be dismissive. The mechanism of protein formation is complicated and it's not something that average joes know about. But for you to comment like this would be like me commenting on the Quran without having read the Quran.

If you can't answer me as to why Prophet Muhammad claimed Prophethood, then maybe this question is easier; Why did his followers choose to follow him when they knew they would be expelled from their households, tortured, rejected and even killed by following him? While knowing that they have no worldly benefit in doing so?
You already know what I think, I'm an atheist (I think Muhammad, like every other prophet in history, was likely a power-hungry and/or self-deluded fraud, and his followers were gullible just like every other prophet's followers). But you don't care what I think.

Joseph Smith's followers faced the same hardships as Muhammad's—they had to move away from their homes into the wilderness and many of them were killed. Why did they do it, Qatada? I think the answer is the same as for Muhammad's followers.

If you say they were ignorant and therefore easily believed in him, then is someone so gullible really willing to go through so much sacrifices?
See Joseph Smith's followers. See Jesus' followers (who, unlike Muslims, thought he was the son of God)—many of them got killed or crucified for their beliefs. Followers of Hindu sects starve and torture themselves for years in devout asceticism. Modern cult members cut off all ties with their families and give all their money to "prophets." There is absolutely nothing unique about Muhammad's followers making sacrifices to follow him—this happens in every religious tradition, from Zoroaster to modern doomsday cults. So answer your own question for all of these other religions.

And further on - be teachers for mankind, for the most advanced civilization in the world?
Actually China was pretty consistently more advanced than the Islamic Empire at the time....

You know that many of these companions later on became governors of the great Persia [former Sassanid empire], Syria [former byzantine power], within just a few years after Prophet Muhammad's death right?
But I thought you said they sacrificed so much in this world. Getting cushy governorships of quasi-imperial states sounds pretty nice to me.

So much for the whole "sacrifice" argument I guess.

If he was false in his Prophecies, then why did they believe his claim and actually achieve it?
If Heaven's Gate's leader was false in his Prophecies about aliens coming to earth then why did his followers believe his claims and actually commit a mass suicide, thus achieving it?

I've explained what I think about Muhammad's true intentions. I'd like to hear what you think all these other prophets were up to. We can start with Joseph Smith. Why do you think Joseph Smith was a fraud?
 
the purpose of stories is using them in a religious context, for morals and so on, not to entertain us or tell it simply for the telling as many -even muslims- seem to think. the problem arose when some muslims used jewish, sabean and other texts to explain parts of the qur'an, or took some parts too literally.
Qingu was trying to use the presence of tales in holy texts as a refutation to them, my reply is in that context.

The Quran doesn't have wild tall tales.. it is a very intelligent book if I am to over look all else.. the ten percent concentrating on miraculous events are appropriate for their time, and it is part of the transcendence -- the Quran is very much relevant today as it was centuries ago..

I'll agree however in the context that one shouldn't fixate on infinitesimal detail while ignoring the bigger picture and we can see that very clearly in chapter 18 Al-kahf

21. And thus We made their case known to the people, that they might know that the Promise of Allah is true, and that there can be no doubt about the Hour. (Remember) when they (the people of the city) disputed among themselves about their case, they said: "Construct a building over them, their Lord knows best about them," (then) those who won their point said (most probably the disbelievers): "We verily shall build a place of worship over them."

22. (Some) say they were three, the dog being the fourth among them; (others) say they were five, the dog being the sixth, guessing at the unseen; (yet others) say they were seven, the dog being the eighth. Say (O Muhammad ): "My Lord knows best their number; none knows them but a few." So debate not (about their number, etc.) except with the clear proof (which We have revealed to you). And consult not any of them (people of the Scripture, Jews and Christians) about (the affair of) the people of the Cave.


one of the take home messages from this sura, isn't about their number or argument of their case, or the years they'd spent in recourse in the cave, or the fact that it was witnessed by others who built a sanctuary above them, rather that it happened as a sign from God, to liken that such as this promise happened so too shall the promise of the end!


And Allah swt knows best

:w:
 
Fo


"All of us?" Almost all biologists—whose job it is to study life—believe in chemical evolution or abiogenesis.

?

before I got my doctorate I had my B.S and M.S in molecular biology.. I along my many colleagues don't believe in abiogensis or spontaneous chemical evolution.. I am curious as to what degree you hold to speak on behalf of almost the entire scientific community?
 
I'll agree however in the context that one shouldn't fixate on infinitesimal detail while ignoring the bigger picture and we can see that very clearly in chapter 18 Al-kahf...
:w:

I was actually going to write the same example, thanks.
 
I truly don't get how you are comparing Joseph Smith with prophet Muhammad, it's not a very accurate example, don't you think?

It's not entirely accurate, and not meant to be insulting, but they do have some similarities including, from my perspective, the fact that they were both false prophets.
 
Perhaps you can show us the similarities?
 
perhaps you can explain to us how Joseph smih is different than the other false prophet Paul/Saul (no offense intended of course) this should make for an interesting theological discussion actually.. show us why Paul isn't a false prophet and why Smith is and how that relates to Islam? That is the scientific approach to religion me thinkus.. start by proving the other guy wrong and illogical!

Let's give you a headstart to work with on Mormonism --

The Articles of Faith are as follows:

We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.
We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.
We believe that through the atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.
We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.
We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.
We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.
We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.
We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon this, the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
We claim the privilege of worshipping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.
We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.
We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul — We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

then take the Quran challenge

http://www.themodernreligion.com/basic/quran/quran_miracle_challenge.htm

which gave the world
* Mathematical evolution of spherical mirrors

* Rectilinear motion of light and use of lenses

* Refraction angle variations

* Magnifying effects of the plano convex lens

* Introduced the concept of the elliptical shape of cosmological bodies

* Study of the center of gravity as applied to balance

* Measurement of specific weights of bodies

* Rule of algebraic equations

* Solutions to quadratic and cubic equations

* Work on square roots, squares, theory of numbers, solution of the fractional numbers

* Solutions of equations of cubic order

* Wrote on conic geometry elaborating the solution of algebraic equations

* Determined the Trinomial Equation

* Avicenna's "Canon of Medicine." He is know as the Prince of Physicians to the West

* Wrote the first description of several drugs and diseases as meningitis.

* Treatment of physiological shocks

* Expertise in psychosomatic medicine and psychology

* Al-Biruni mentions fifty six manuscripts on pharmacology

* Credited for identifying small pox and its treatment

* Use of alcohol as an antiseptic

* Use of mercury as a purgative for the first time

* First to describe the circulation of blood.

* "Holy Abbas" was, after Rhazes, the most outstanding Physician. His works were authoritative till the works of ibn Sina appeared

* Writings on Cosmology, Astrology, Science of numbers and letters

* Proved that the earth is smaller than the sun but larger than the moon.

* Final authorities on Chemistry for many Centuries

* Classified metals into three classifications

* Laid the basis of the Acid Base theory

* Distillation, calcination, crystallization, the discovery of many acids

* Cultivation of Gold - is a continuation of Jabir's work

* Theory of Oscillatory motion of equinoxes

* Addition of ninth sphere to the eight Ptolematic astronomy

* Discovered the increase of the suns apogee

* Gravitational force

* Responsible for the discovery motion of the solar apsides

* wrote ' On the Science of Stars '

* Determination of latitudes and longitudes

* Determination of geodetic measurements

* Described the motion of the planets

* Solved the problems of spherical trigonometry

* First to study the isometric oscillatory motion of a pendulum

* Invented the instrument ' Sahifah "

* Responsible for the proof of the motion of the apogee of the sun with respect to the fixed stars.

* authorities on the theory of the system of homocentric spheres

just so we are on the same plane?
 
perhaps you can explain to us how Joseph smih is different than the other false prophet Paul/Saul (no offense intended of course) this should make for an interesting theological discussion actually.. show us why Paul isn't a false prophet and why Smith is and how that relates to Islam?

Hmmm.... that is a good question. Answering this fully will take more research than I have time for right now, I have finals coming up. A quick answer would be to say that Paul never claimed to be a prophet. He wasn't handing down new revelations, he was spreading the teachings of Christ. Paul wasn't setting himself up as the head of a new religion, it was Peter (the first pope)who was given the keys to the kingdom. Paul (and Muhamad btw) also didn't invent stories about a huge lost civilization for which no evidence can be found.
 
Let me make your job easier about paul.. btw a prophet = Someone who speaks by divine inspiration which is something Saul/Paul claimed in fact along with changing the entire teaching of Jesus.. and after this post look for the lost cities from the Quran which are now found =)

Why Paul is a false prophet


I cried out to the Father, the Most High God, "Just Give Me The Truth!" and since then He has revealed many truths to me. When I asked Him what I should name
this website He said, "the same thing you said to Me several years ago, "Just give me the truth!"


By Sherry Shriner .... sounding the alarm on what was, is, and is to come


Just Give Me The Truth - Home


The Apostle Paul Was A Deceiver!

He was Satan In The Flesh! An Antichrist!

Matthew 24:4-5 states you will be deceived by people that come using Jesus’ name. Consider the parable of the sower. Jesus was warning us then that as soon as His Gospel was preached, the enemy (Paul) would be there to steal the truth!


***The real (untranslated) name of Jesus is Y'hoshua (pronounced like the name Joshua but with a Y, YoHoshua, some pronounce his name as Yeshua). All refer to the Son of God who came as the promised Messiah who died on the cross for our sins and rose again.

Now before you throw a tantrum and wonder why I haven't been struck by lightening straight from the throne room of God, I can prove to you that Paul was a Fraud using his own words. Of course, if you're a female, and you're in the ministry, you already know he was, you probably just didn't realize it! For to be a female and in the ministry of the Lord, you had to turn your back on Paul to follow Jesus. Congrats! You figured it out! You refused to buy into the lie pie Satan tried to sell you as Paul!

I'm going to make some startling points to wake your mind up into the truth, so hear me out, then I'll go through and explain each one and give you all the proof you need to see for yourself that what I'm saying is indeed the truth.

Paul was Satan in the Flesh

Paul was never recognized as an apostle by the Disciples OR Jesus

Paul was never trained by the disciples, the men who walked, talked, and broke bread with our Saviour. He received his knowledge from "revelations."

Paul's account of his Damascus Road Experience changed every time he told it, thus the disciples knew he was lying.

Paul declared he was teaching another Gospel of which he himself was the Father

Paul declared he himself was the son of God

Paul issued his own commandments and laws for people to adhere to

Paul taught the exact Opposite of what Jesus and His real disciples did.

Paul worked to destroy and undo everything Jesus and His disciples did and were doing.

Paul was never repentant for being the greatest persecutor of Christians at that time! He boasted about it! Over and Over!

Paul said God's law was a Curse. Jesus said it was a blessing. Who's lying?

Paul condemned Jesus and His disciples for false teachings, he condemned Jesus Himself for having long hair in 1 Corinthians 11:14, something approved in Numbers 6:5 and Judges 13:5.

Jesus Said: Keep the Sabbath (Mark 2:27), circumcise male children (Luke 2:21), Paul Said: Circumcision is not necessary (Romans 2:26) that is going against what the Christ said in Luke 2:21.

In 1 Corinthians 15:1 Paul says that he was not giving them anything but what “he preached.” He explained this even further in the second book (or letter) to the Corinthians (2 Corinthians 11:17). It reads - “That which I speak, I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting.” He's telling you plain and simple he was speaking of himself and not from or of the Lord!"

Paul cursed Jesus and His disciples

Paul claimed he himself was the son of God

Paul Supported and demanded Adherence to Iniquity (Discrimination), Jesus said to not let it be found among us! Who's lying?



Jesus: When Yahshua confronts the Adversary, he defeats him by saying, "You shall live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of YHWH, and Him alone will you serve."

Paul: When Paul is mobbed by people who wish to stone him for preaching against the Law of YHWH, he relies on the worldly authorities as a Roman entitled to the protection of the government rulers who save him (Dt. 8:3, Mt.4:4, Acts 22:26, 23:27



Jesus: "DO NOT CALL ANYONE ON EARTH YOUR FATHER; for ONE IS YOUR FATHER, HE who is in heaven"
(Matthew 23:9)

The devil 'PAUL' BLASPEMOUSLY BOASTED

"For I BECAME YOUR FATHER"
(1 Corinthians 4:15)

" JESUS came to Galilee PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM "
(Mark 1:14, Matt.4:23).
JESUS said " THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM will be PREACHED, IN MY NAME in all the world
(Matt.24:14).
'PAUL' CAME preaching, by his own admission, ANOTHER GOSPEL PROMOTING LAWLESSNESS and LICENTIOUSNESS

many excerpts taken from disciplesofchrist.com

"I ('PAUL') testify to the gospel of the grace of god...ANOTHER GOSPEL...ALL THINGS ARE LAWFUL "
(Acts 20:24. 2 Corinthians 11:4. 1 Corinthians 10:23).

"PERVERTING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO LAWLESSNESS EVEN DENYING THE ONLY LORD GOD (THE FATHER) AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST (THE FATHER'S SON)"
(Jude 4. 1 John 2:22)



'PAUL' CURSED JESUS CHRIST AND HIS APOSTLES AND DISCIPLES
" If we or an angel from heaven preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL to you than what we (Paul and his followers) have preached to you LET HIM BE A CURSE"
(Gal 1:18)
There was a distinction even back then with the disciples of Jesus and Paul and "his" followers. Barnabbas and Mark both followed Paul at one time and then left him and went back to the disciples. Barnabbas was sent by the Apostle Peter to travel with Paul and teach Paul the ways and teachings of Jesus, but Paul wasn't going to play second fiddle to anyone and usurped the authority of Barnabbas and taught what he wanted to teach. How many ever knew that Paul was suppose to be subservient to Barnabbas?









"Indeed I PAUL say to you that IF ANYONE BECOME CIRCUMCISED Christ will profit you nothing " (Gal. 5:2).

too bad Paul! The circumcision was a sign of the covenant between Israel and Yahovah and you're lie was exposed for what it was! Another false "divine revelation!"

YET, despite his assertion that 'Christ will profit you nothing', 'Paul' himself, HYPOCRITICALLY " took TIMOTHY and CIRCUMCISED HIM "
(Acts 16:3).




Now Paul declares it's ok to eat meat sacrificed to idols

" For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than THESE NECESSARY THINGS:
That you ABSTAIN FROM MEATS offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled and from fornication..."
(Acts 15:28:29)
" But I (Jesus) have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a STUMBLING BLOCK before the children of Israel, TO EAT THINGS SACRIFICED TO IDOLS "
(Revelation 2:14)






" I ( PAUL ) have laid a FOUNDATION...the FOUNDATION OF APOSTLES AND PROPHETS "

( 1 Cor.3:10. Eph 2:20 The words of PSALM 68:18 read "HE (ALMIGHTY GOD) RECEIVED gifts FROM men" (Psalm 68:18)

'Paul' TOOK AWAY FROM the words of Psalm 68:18 and changed them to read "he GAVE gifts TO men" (Ephesians 4:8)





Now do you wonder why there's so much strife and division in our churches today? Because they're filled with Saul-Paul-Satan who completely contradicts the Real Word of God!




in Hebrew the name "Saul" means underworld, borrowed



"AND THIS GOSPEL WILL BE PREACHED IN ALL THE EARTH FOR A WITNESS TO ME. AND THEN THE END WILL COME; THIS (THE END) IS THE ANTI-CHRIST AND THIS (THE ANTI-CHRIST) IS THE ABOMINATION WHICH DESOLATES WHICH WAS SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL AS STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE (IN THE PLACE OF MESSIAH); LET THE ONE WHO READS UNDERSTAND"
(Matthew 24:14,15 Shem Tov Jewish translation from original Jewish Version as written by Matthew)


THE COMING OF

"THE END...THE ABOMINATION WHICH MAKES DESOLATE "

**PROPHESIED BY DANIEL**


"He said, "Behold, I am going to let you know what will occur at the final period of the indignation, for it pertains to the appointed time of THE END...".
"From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and THE ABOMINATION WHICH MAKES DESOLATE is set up, there will be 1,290 days.
(Daniel 8:19. 11:31. 12:11)

THE ARRIVAL OF

" THE END...THE ANTICHRIST, THE ABOMINATION WHICH MAKES DESOLATE"

**CONFIRMED BY THE APOSTLE JOHN**


" Little children, IT IS THE LAST HOUR (THE END); and as ye have heard THE ANTICHRIST SHALL COME, even NOW there are MANY ANTICHRISTS; this is how we know that it is THE LAST HOUR (THE END)"
(1 John 2:18)


YESHUA (JESUS) THE MESSIAH FURTHER WARNED


"MANY WILL COME USING MY NAME SAYING:
'I AM THE MESSIAH, RABBI, PASTOR, TEACHER'
(Matthew 24:5. Matthew 23:8,10)




" JESUS said to them " I SAW SATAN FALL, LIKE LIGHTNING, FROM HEAVEN"
(Luke 10:18)

"So the great DRAGON was cast out FROM HEAVEN, that SERPENT of old called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; HE WAS CAST TO THE EARTH AND HIS ANGELS WERE CAST OUT WITH HIM "
(Revelation 12:9. Matthew 13:39)

" As SAUL journeyed he came near Damascus and suddenly A LIGHT FROM HEAVEN (LIGHTNING) shone around him and he fell to the ground"
(Acts 9:3,4)


SCALES OF THE SERPENT

" there fell from SAUL'S eyes something like SCALES (of the SERPENT)"
(Acts 9:18)

"YESHUA (JESUS) SAID YOU HAVE TESTED THOSE WHO SAY THEY ARE APOSTLES AND ARE NOT AND HAVE FOUND THEM TO BE LIARS "
(Revelation 2:2)

YESHUA (JESUS) THE MESSIAH WARNED

"MANY WILL COME USING MY NAME SAYING:
'I AM THE MESSIAH, RABBI, PASTOR, TEACHER'
(Matthew 24:5. Matthew 23:8,10)



THE DIVINE TEST OF A TRUE APOSTLE OF YESHUA (JESUS) THE MESSIAH

Peter established a test for apostles:
"PETER said...therefore it is necessary that of the men who have accompanied us ALL THE TIME that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us--BEGINNING WITH THE BAPTISM OF JOHN until THE DAY HE WAS TAKEN UP FROM US --one of these must become a witness with us of His resurrection."

(Acts 1:21,22) In other words, in order to be an apostle you would have had to have been a disciple first!

(NOTE: Because 'Paul', Barnabas, Timothy, Silvanus and others failed to meet the TEST, set by Peter they were "REJECTED BY ALL IN ASIA"; as acknowledged by 'Paul' and Timothy).

" This you know that ALL THOSE IN ASIA HAVE TURNED AWAY FROM ME "
(2 Tim. 1:15).



SAUL (who changed his name to 'Paul') ENEMY OF JESUS CHRIST



JESUS prophesied "...IF ANOTHER COMES, IN HIS OWN NAME, YOU (Scribes and Pharisees) WILL RECEIVE HIM"
(John 5:43b)

" SAUL who is ALSO called 'PAUL'
( Acts 13:9 )
JESUS prophesied " While men slept HIS ENEMY came and sowed TARES
(Matt.13:25).
" UNGODLY MEN...WHO HAVE SECRETLY CREPT IN TO OUR ASSEMBLIES "
(Jude 4)
" JESUS said to them AN ENEMY has done this "
(Matthew 13:28)
PAUL' THE DEVIL
( Matthew 13:39. Matthew 25:41 )


JESUS explained: " THE ENEMY who sowed THE TARES is THE DEVIL "
( Matt.13:39 )
" THE EVIL ONE "
( Matthew 13:38. Matt. 6:13. John 17:15 )
" There fell from SAUL'S eyes, something like SCALES(of the SERPENT"
(Acts 9:18)

'PAUL' A MURDERER
Paul BOASTED about being the persecutor of the Jews.

He NEVER Repented or sought their forgiveness.

Or God's!

JESUS said " He was a MURDERER from the beginning "
(John 8:44)
"He shall PERSECUTE the saints of The Most HIGH"
(Daniel 7:25)
"SAUL was in hearty agreement with putting Stephen to death. And on that day a GREAT PERSECUTION began against the church in Jerusalem, and they were all scattered throughout the regions of Judea and Samaria, except the apostles".
"But SAUL began ravaging the church, entering house after house, and dragging off men and women, he would put them in prison".
" SAUL breathing THREATS and MURDER against the disciples of The Lord "
(Acts 8:1-3. 9:1 )

'PAUL' SPOKE AGAINST GOD,THE FATHER and SOUGHT to MAKE ALTERATIONS IN TIMES AND IN LAW, AS PROPHESIED BY DANIEL

"He shall speak POMPOUS WORDS AGAINST THE MOST HIGH...AND SHALL INTEND TO MAKE ALTERATIONS IN TIMES AND IN LAW"
(Daniel 7:25)

'PAUL' SPOKE the POMPOUS WORDS

"For I BECAME YOUR FATHER"
(1 Corinthians 4:15)

JESUS quoted "TWO COMMANDMENTS" requiring (1) LOVE OF GOD,THE FATHER and (2) LOVE OF NEIGHBOUR:

"Jesus said unto him, Thou shall love THE LORD THY GOD with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is THE FIRST and great commandment. And the SECOND is like unto it. Thou shall love THY NEIGHBOUR as thyself. On these TWO commandments hang ALL THE LAW AND THE PROPHETS".
(Matthew 22:37-40).

The devil 'Paul' showed his HATRED FOR GOD, THE FATHER by teaching THE LIE:

"For ALL THE LAW is fulfilled in ONE WORD, even in this: Thou shall love THY NEIGHBOUR (no LOVE FOR GOD) as thyself"
(Galations 5:14. Romans 13:9)

" ALL THINGS are PERMISSABLE"
(1 Corinthians 6:12)


(NOTE: Because the devil 'Paul' taught the REMOVAL of the first FOUR of the TEN COMMANDMENTS which require LOVE OF GOD, THE FATHER; christians have sought to corrupt the same FIRST FOUR COMMANDMENTS by (1) substituting 'trinity' instead of GOD,THE FATHER THE ONLY TRUE GOD (2)completely REMOVING THE SECOND and (3) TRAMPLE ON THE THIRD and (4)SUBSTITUTED 'sunday'the FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK for THE SABBATH (SEVENTH DAY) (ALTERATIONS IN TIMES)



'PAUL' THE ANTICHRIST ' and THE ABOMINATION WHICH MAKES DESOLATE



"...THAT WHICH IS ESTEEMED among men IS AN ABOMINATION in the sight of GOD"
(Luke 16:15)

"YESHUA (JESUS) SAID AND THEN THE END WILL COME; THIS (THE END) IS THE ANTI-CHRIST AND THIS (THE ANTI-CHRIST) IS THE ABOMINATION WHICH MAKES DESOLATES WHICH WAS SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL AS STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE (IN THE PLACE OF CHRIST)...
(Matthew 24:15 Shem Tov Jewish vsn. Daniel 9:27. 12:11)
"From the time that the regular sacrifice is abolished and the ABOMINATION WHICH MAKES DESOLATE is set up, there will be 1,290 days ".
(Daniel 12:11)
(NOTE: 'PAUL', the 'THE ANTI-CHRIST and THE ABOMINATION WHICH MAKES DESOLATE' made his 'ungodly' appearance EXACTLY "1290 days" after the death of Yeshua (Jesus) The MESSIAH as prophesied by Daniel. On the very day when Yeshua (Jesus) ' made himself an offering for sin' (Isaiah 53:10), 'the regular sacrifice ' was 'abolished'; confirmed by God, the Father when " The veil of the temple was torn in two from the top to the bottom" as recorded in Matthew 27:51)
"...and on the wing of ABOMINATIONS will come ONE WHO MAKES DESOLATE, even until a complete destruction, one that is decreed, is poured out on the one who makes desolate."
(Daniel 9:27)
"...as you heard that ANTICHRIST IS COMING, even now MANY ANTICHRISTS HAVE APPEARED;"
(1 John 2:18. Matthew 13:38,39)
The TRUE apostle, also John declared " HE is THE ANTICHRIST who DENIES BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON "
(1 John 2:22)



'PAUL' BLASPHEMOUSLY BOASTED THAT HE WAS GOD, THE FATHER



JESUS WARNS HIS DISCIPLES:


"DO NOT CALL ANYONE ON EARTH YOUR FATHER; for ONE IS YOUR FATHER, HE who is in heaven"
(Matthew 23:9)

The devil 'PAUL' BLASPEMOUSLY BOASTED:

"For I BECAME YOUR FATHER"
(1 Corinthians 4:15)


NOTE: Everyone of 'Paul's' papal successors BLASPHEMOUSLY claim, like 'Paul', the title "HOLY FATHER"; which Title belongs, EXCLUSIVELY, to THE ONLY TRUE GOD, THE FATHER, as testified by JESUS "HOLY FATHER" (John 17:3,11)



'PAUL' BOASTED THAT HE WAS EQUAL TO JESUS CHRIST
THE ANTICHRIST 'PAUL' BOASTED " In nothing was I behind THE MOST EMINENT (JESUS CHRIST)...IN SIGNS AND WONDERS AND MIGHTY DEEDS " (2 Cor. 12:11)


YESHUA(JESUS) THE MESSIAH WARNED

"MANY WILL COME USING MY NAME SAYING:
'I AM THE MESSIAH, RABBI, PASTOR, TEACHER'
(Matthew 24:5. Matthew 23:8,10)


The TRUE APOSTLE PETER testified: " JESUS of Nazareth A MAN ATTESTED BY GOD to you BY MIRACLES, WONDERS AND SIGNS "
(Acts 2:22)



NOTE: This diabolical " BOAST " was in fulfillment of the warning given by JESUS:
"For false christs and false prophets will arise and will show GREAT SIGNS AND WONDERS, so as to MISLEAD, if possible, even the elect "
(Matthew 24:24. see also Acts 15:12)



' PAUL ' BOASTED THAT HE WAS HOLIER THAN JESUS CHRIST

" IF ANYONE ELSE thinks he has confidence in the flesh I (PAUL) MORE SO,
" concerning the RIGHTEOUSNESS which is in THE LAW I (PAUL) AM BLAMELESS "
(Phil. 3:6).


'PAUL' BRAZENLY CLAIMED TO BEING THE SON OF GOD



YESHUA(JESUS) THE MESSIAH WARNED
"MANY WILL COME USING MY NAME SAYING:
'I AM THE MESSIAH, RABBI, PASTOR, TEACHER'
(Matthew 24:5. Matthew 23:8,10)

"YESHUA (JESUS) SAID "I AM THE SON OF GOD"
(John 10:36)


The DEVIL AND FALSE APOSTLE 'Paul' said:
" It pleased god to reveal his SON in ME ('PAUL')"
( Gal. 1:15,16 )

THE ANTICHRIST 'Paul' ALSO BOASTED " In nothing was I behind THE MOST EMINENT (JESUS CHRIST)...IN SIGNS AND WONDERS AND MIGHTY DEEDS "
> (2 Cor. 12:11)

" JESUS warned " MANY WILL COME IN MY NAME SAYING 'I AM THE MESSIAH' AND WILL SHOW SIGNS AND WONDERS AND SHALL DECEIVE MANY "
(MATTHEW 24:5,24 )




'PAUL' FALSELY CLAIMED THAT HE WAS AN APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES


That the APOSTLE PETER was the Divinely appointed "APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES" was unquestioned by The Twelve Apostles of The Lamb as PETER himself reminded them, at the Council meeting in Jerusalem:
"After there had been much debate, Peter stood up and said to them, "Brethren, you know that in the early days God made a choice among you, that by my mouth the Gentiles would hear the word of the gospel and believe"
(Acts 15:7).
At the same Council meeting the false apostle 'Paul' had "SECRETLY CREPT IN" (Jude 4) by changing his name from Saul to 'Paul'. When PETER had completed his testimony the false apostle 'Paul' sought to assert his self-assumed apostolic authority by "showing signs and wonders to deceive, if possible the elected twelve, as Yeshua (Jesus) had warned" (Acts 15:12. Matthew 24:24).
When this failed the devil and false apostle 'Paul' later sought to usurp the Divinely appointed authority of the APOSTLE PETER as the "APOSTLE TO THE GENTILES". 'Paul'wrote the LIE to his Galation followers that he ('Paul')and NOT PETER "was entrusted with the gospel to the Gentiles" (Galations 2:7). In that same infamous letter 'Paul' also attacked the integrity of the faithful apostle PETER by making un-corroborated and FALSE CHARGES against PETER. These same LIES have been preached and written about by Pauline Christian ministers for the last two thousand years.


PAUL IDENTIFIED BY THE NUMBER OF THE BEAST 666
( Revelation 13:18 )


" Here is wisdom. Let him that has understanding reckon the NUMBER OF THE BEAST, for it is THE NUMBER OF A MAN; and HIS number is six hundred and sixty six (666)."
(Revelation 13:18)
In HEBREW the number 666 is identified by the HEBREW LETTERS TRSV;
T=400, R=200, S=60, V=6 Which TOTAL 666.
TRSV is pronounced TARSU.
(NOTE: In Scripture the PLACE OF ORIGIN IDENTIFIES the person; eg "Jesus of Nazareth", "Joseph of Arimathea", "Paul of Tarsu".
"PAUL OF TARSU(TRSV)" is identified by THE NUMBER 666.

LIKEWISE IN THE GREEK


THE NUMBER 666 is the sum of the numerical value of the Greek Letters in the Greek word LATEINOS, which means " THE LATIN MAN ".
THE GREEK WORD L A T E I N O S
THE GREEK NUMERIC VALUE 30 1 300 5 10 50 70 200 = 666

The association of "Lateinos" with 666 was acknowledged, with great embarassment, by the historian IRENAEUS (ca. 130-202 A.D.),in his document 'Against Heresies', "For the Latins are they who at present bear rule...this being the name of the last kingdom (of the four seen by Daniel)...I will not, however, make any boast over this (coincidence)...".

The COWARD 'PAUL' identified himself as
" a man that is a Roman "
(Acts 22:25)

in order to escape persecution and death.

'Paul' " a man that is a Roman " is " The Latin Man ".
666
IS " THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME "
(Revelation 13:18).

IN BOTH the HEBREW and THE GREEK THE NUMBER OF HIS NAME IS 666


'PAUL' THE FIRST CHRISTIAN POPE



As foretold by JESUS, when THE DEVIL, THE ANTICHRIST, THE ABOMINATION WHICH MAKES DESOLTATE, AND FALSE APOSTLE 'PAUL' had FOUNDED CHRISTIANITY, "HE WENT AWAY"(Matthew 13:25) to ROME.

Having secured safe passage,under the patronage of CAESAR, he was taken to to ROME, under the pretence of being a prisoner.
Upon arrival at Rome 'Paul' was installed in a luxurious villa where
" he was allowed to stay by himself, with the soldier who was guarding him (for his own protection)"
(Acts 27:1. 28:16).
This "soldier" was the very first of the " vatican guards " supplied by CAESAR to provide protection to 'Paul' and his papal successors.
Everyone of the christian Popes, who have since succeeded the first Pope 'Paul', to the office of the papacy, are identified by the same NUMBER OF THE BEAST (666). Like 'PAUL' the Christian Popes BLASPHEMOUSLY claim the Titles "HOLY FATHER" and 'vicar of christ (instead of christ); which is inscribed on their tiaras.



' PAUL ' A LIAR '



JESUS said: " HE is A LIAR and THE FATHER OF LIES "
(John 8:44)


JESUS commended HIS DISCIPLES in HIS CHURCH at EPHESUS:
" You have tested those who SAY THEY ARE APOSTLES and ARE NOT and have found them LIARS"
(Rev. 2:2)
'Paul' BOASTED of his LIES
If through MY LIE God's truth abounds to His glory, why am I still being condemned as a sinner?
(Romans 3:7)
In every way, whether in PRETENCE or in truth, Jesus is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice

(Philippians 1:18)


PAUL made THE LYING BOAST to being SINLESS:



" If anyone else thinks he has confidence in the flesh I ('Paul')MORE SO...
concerning THE RIGHTOUSNESS which is in THE LAW, I ('PAUL')AM BLAMELESS "
( Phil 3:6 ).
JESUS DECLARES 'PAUL' AS BEING A LIAR when he states ;
" NOT ONE OF YOU KEEPS THE LAW "
(John 7:19).



' PAUL ' REJECTED BY THE TWELVE APOSTLES AND DISCIPLES OF JESUS



" But when SAUL had come to Jerusalem HE tried to join the disciples; but they were ALL AFRAID OF HIM AND DID NOT BELIEVE THAT HE WAS A DISCIPLE "
(Acts 9:26).
"All the people kept (stunned)silence, as they were listening to Barnabas and Paul as they were relating what SIGNS AND WONDERS 'God had done through them among the Gentiles'.
"After they had stopped speaking, James answered, saying, "Brethren, LISTEN TO ME".
(Acts 15:12,13).

NOTE the swift intervention of James telling " all the people...LISTEN TO ME " and not be " listening " to "Barnabas and Paul" who attempted to " SHOW SIGNS AND WONDERS TO DECEIVE, IF POSSIBLE, EVEN THE ELECT " as Jesus warned in Matthew 24:24.



'PAUL' COMPLAINED BITTERLY to his disciple Timothy
" This you know that ALL THOSE IN ASIA HAVE TURNED AWAY FROM ME "
(2 Tim. 1:15).



'PAUL' PREACHED ANOTHER GOSPEL.



" JESUS came to Galilee PREACHING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM "
(Mark 1:14, Matt.4:23).
JESUS said " THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM will be PREACHED, IN MY NAME in all the world
(Matt.24:14).
'PAUL' CAME preaching, by his own admission, ANOTHER GOSPEL PROMOTING LAWLESSNESS and LICENTIOUSNESS


"I ('PAUL') testify to the gospel of the grace of god...ANOTHER GOSPEL...ALL THINGS ARE LAWFUL "
(Acts 20:24. 2 Corinthians 11:4. 1 Corinthians 10:23).

"PERVERTING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO LAWLESSNESS EVEN DENYING THE ONLY LORD GOD (THE FATHER) AND OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST (THE FATHER'S SON)"
(Jude 4. 1 John 2:22)



'PAUL' CURSED JESUS CHRIST AND HIS APOSTLES AND DISCIPLES
.


" If we or an angel from heaven preach ANY OTHER GOSPEL to you than what we have preached to you LET HIM BE A CURSE"
(Gal 1:18)
.
NOTE: ONLY amongst christians, in every christian home, office, workshop, place of worship, theatre, cinema, radio, television etc is "THE NOBLE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST" (James 2:7) used as " a curse " as commanded by the devil and false apostle 'Paul'.


PAUL A HYPOCRITE
.


" Indeed I PAUL say to you that IF ANYONE BECOME CIRCUMCISED Christ will profit you nothing " (Gal. 5:2).

YET, despite his assertion that 'Christ will profit you nothing', 'Paul' himself, HYPOCRITICALLY " took TIMOTHY and CIRCUMCISED HIM "
(Acts 16:3).
" PAUL took the men HAVING BEEN PURIFIED WITH THEM ".
(Acts 21:26)



PAUL ENCOURAGED THE EATING OF FOOD OFFERED TO IDOLS.


" I (Paul) am fully convinced NO FOOD is UNCLEAN in itself "
(Romans 14:14)


THIS EVIL TEACHING IS IN BLATANT DISREGARD FOR THE COMMAND OF THE HOLY SPIRIT AND THE TWELVE APOSTLES
" For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than THESE NECESSARY THINGS:
That you ABSTAIN FROM MEATS offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled and from fornication..."
(Acts 15:28:29)
" But I (Jesus) have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a STUMBLING BLOCK before the children of Israel, TO EAT THINGS SACRIFICED TO IDOLS "
(Revelation 2:14)

NOTE: CHRISTIANS in every country EAT BLOOD PRODUCTS such as 'black and white puddings and PORK MEATS


PAUL FOUNDER OF CHRISTIANITY
.

YESHUA (JESUS) THE MESSIAH PROPHESIED

"And this gospel will be preached in all the earth for a witness to me. THEN THE END WILL COME; THIS (THE END) IS THE ANTI-CHRIST AND THIS (THE END) IS THE ABOMINATION WHICH DESOLATES WHICH WAS SPOKEN OF BY DANIEL AS STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE (IN THE PLACE OF MESSIAH); LET THE ONE WHO READS UNDERSTAND"
(Matthew 24:14,15 Shem Tov Jewish translation from original Jewish Version as written by Matthew)
YESHUA(JESUS) THE MESSIAH WARNED
"MANY WILL COME USING MY NAME SAYING:
'I AM THE MESSIAH, RABBI, PASTOR, TEACHER'
(Matthew 24:5. Matthew 23:8,10)



" I ( PAUL ) have laid a FOUNDATION...the FOUNDATION OF APOSTLES AND PROPHETS "
( 1 Cor.3:10. Eph 2:20
.

In order to justify his appointment of 'APOSTLES and PROPHETS', 'Paul CHANGED OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE.

The words of PSALM 68:18 read "HE (ALMIGHTY GOD) RECEIVED gifts FROM men" (Psalm 68:18)
'Paul' TOOK AWAY FROM the words of Psalm 68:18 and changed them to read "he GAVE gifts TO men" (Ephesians 4:8)


" Now in the church that was in ANTIOCH there were certain PROPHETS...and PAUL "
(Acts 13:1).
" PAUL'S disciples "
(Acts 9:25).
" The DISCIPLES (of 'PAUL') were first CALLED CHRISTIANS in ANTIOCH "
(Acts 11:26).



'PAUL' MADE ALTERATIONS TO SCRIPTURE AS PROPHESIED BY DANIEL
.


"He shall speak POMPOUS WORDS AGAINST THE MOST HIGH...AND SHALL INTEND TO MAKE ALTERATIONS IN TIMES AND IN LAW"
(Daniel 7:25)

In order to jusify" BARNABAS and I (PAUL) NOT WORKING FOR A LIVING LIKE OTHER MEN "
(1 Cor. 9:9).
PAUL "MADE ALTERATIONS IN...LAW" which commands:
" You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain "
(Deut 25:4).

In giving this command to MOSES, GOD was showing HIS CONCERN for the welfare of the oxen (see also Proverbs 12:10)" A righteous man regards the life of his animal ".

PAUL teaches the BRAZEN LIE that " GOD is NOT CONCERNED with OXEN (but)...says it ALTOGETHER for our sakes " (1 Cor. 9:9)..

NOTE: This is a UNIVERSAL MARK of 'PAUL' and HIS CHRISTIAN FELLOW WORKERS they" DO NOT WORK FOR A LIVING LIKE OTHER MEN".

The devil 'Paul' and his christian ministers(angels) are THE ONLY PEOPLE who "BUY AND SELL"(Revelation 13:17) their evil doctrines for "MONEY".
(Jude 11. Revelation 13:17).

"and he('Paul')provides that no one will be able to BUY OR SELL, except the one who has the mark (the 'cross'), or the name of the beast or the number of his name.
(Revelation 13:17. Matthew 25:9,10)
"THE DEALERS...FOR PAY"
(Matthew 25:9,10. Jude 11)




'PAUL' USED DECEIT IN HIS APPOINTMENT OF CHRISTIAN MINISTERS



In order to justify his appointment of 'APOSTLES and PROPHETS, pastors, teachers etc ', 'Paul CHANGED OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURE.

The words of PSALM 68:18 read "HE (ALMIGHTY GOD) RECEIVED gifts FROM men" (Psalm 68:18, 29)

'Paul' TOOK AWAY FROM the words of Psalm 68:18 by seeking to change them to read "he GAVE gifts TO men" (Ephesians 4:8)

'Paul' also TOOK AWAY FROM the words of Psalm 68:18 by TAKING AWAY the words "THE LORD"(GOD, THE FATHER)(Psa. 68:4,5) and seeking to apply them to someone else.



PAUL'S HATRED OF THE POOR AND NEEDY


The devil 'Paul' commands his Christian followers: "If anyone among you leads a vagabond life HE MUST BE LEFT TO STARVE...HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THEM...LET THEM EAT THEIR OWN BREAD" (2 Thessalonians 3:6-12 Ronald Knox Roman catholic 1955 Trans.)


THE ANGELS OF THE DEVIL ' PAUL '.



YESHUA(JESUS) THE MESSIAH WARNED
"MANY WILL COME USING MY NAME SAYING:
'I AM THE MESSIAH, RABBI, PASTOR, TEACHER'
(Matthew 24:5. Matthew 23:8,10)



JESUS CALLED THEM " THE TARES, SONS OF THE EVIL ONE " `
(Matt. 13:38).
" SATAN'S ANGELS were cast out FROM HEAVEN to the earth with SATAN"
(Revelation 12:9)
"UNGODLY MEN ...WHO LONG AGO WERE DESIGNATED FOR THIS CONDEMNATION"
(Jude 4)
"DEMONS...UNCLEAN SPIRITS...FOUL AND HATEFUL BIRDS"
(Revelation 18:2).

'PAUL' BOASTED THAT HE WAS THE FATHER OF DEMONS

"For I BECAME YOUR FATHER"
(1 Corinthians 4:15)

(Jude 1:19)

'Paul' himself gave them titles:

" Apostles and prophets, fathers, pastors, evangelists and teachers...bishops, deacons,exorcists, miracle workers, speakers in unknown languages, administrators etc "
(Eph 4:11. Phil. 1:1. 1 Corinthians 4:15).


These can be found within the *TWENTY EIGHT THOUSAND* CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS and bearing the following diabolical titles:


Popes, cardinals, patriarchs, moderators, monsignors,apostles, prophets,fathers, pastors, teachers, evangelists, bishops, deacons, miracle workers, speakers in unknown tongues, exorcists, administrators etc.

(** NOTE: Barrett's " World-wide Encyclopedia of Christianity " records in the 1988 edition:
" In Christianity there are in the region of 28,000 ( YES! Twenty Eight Thousand ) different denominations "('FACTIONS'); and further describes this as " Sectarianism run riot ". This encyclopedia also makes the following ****ing statement:
"(the members of)these distinct denominations ALL HATE ONE ANOTHER".)


'PAUL' AND HIS CHRISTIAN MINISTERS SHUT UP THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN AGAINST MEN
.


JESUS said " They neither go in themselves nor do they allow those who want to enter from going in "
(Matt. 23:13)
.


THE JUDGEMENT UPON THE DEVIL PAUL AND HIS CHRISTIAN FELLOW WORKERS


THE SON OF MAN, JESUS THE MESSIAH (CHRIST)
THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
OF THE LIVING AND ONLY TRUE GOD GOD, THE FATHER
IS NOW SEATED ON HIS GLORIOUS THRONE
AS

" KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS "
(Matthew 25:31. 16:16. John 17:3. Revelation 19:16)
" DIVINELY APPOINTED JUDGE OF THE LIVING AND THE DEAD"

(John 5:22. Acts 10:42)

JESUS NOWCOMMANDS
THE DEVIL 'PAUL' AND HIS ANGELS


"DEPART FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS, I NEVER KNEW YOU.
DEPART FROM ME YOU WHO ARE CURSED, INTO THE EVERLASTING FIRE
PREPARED FOR THE DEVIL AND HIS ANGELS.
FOR I WAS HUNGRY AND YOU GAVE ME NOTHING TO EAT;
I WAS THIRSTY AND YOU GAVE ME NOTHING TO DRINK;
I WAS A STRANGER AND YOU DID NOT INVITE ME IN;
I WAS NAKED AND YOU DID NOT CLOTHE ME;
I WAS SICK AND IN PRISON AND YOU DID NOT VISIT ME.


THESE WILL GO AWAY INTO EVERLASTING PUNISHMENT"
(Matt 7:23. Matthew 13:42.and 25:41-43,46.Jude 13).
" WOE TO YOU, SCRIBES AND PHARISEES, HYPOCRITES,
BECAUSE YOU SHUT OFF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN FROM PEOPLE;
FOR YOU DO NOT ENTER IN YOURSELVES,
NOR DO YOU ALLOW THOSE WHO ARE ENTERING TO GO IN "
(Matthew 23:13)




THE PLACE OF THE JUDGEMENT
.


" Then JESUS' disciples asked Him WHERE?...
(Luke 17:37)
.

JESUS answered " wherever the dead body lies THERE will the VULTURES be gathered together ".
(Luke 17:37)

THE DEVIL 'PAUL' AND HIS CHRISTIAN FELLOW WORKERS(ANGELS)are THE VULTURES referred to by JESUS.
These ASSEMBLIES OF THE DEVIL 'PAUL' are BOUND IN BUNDLES TO BE BURNED.
AT the command of the DEVIL 'PAUL', these BUNDLES have been DIVIDED up into 'FACTIONS '
" There MUST also be FACTIONS AMONG YOU "
(1 Cor. 11:19).


THESE " FACTIONS " or CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS have resulted in their DELUDED FOLLOWERS being "DIVIDED UP FOR MONEY and HATING ONE ANOTHER "
(Jude 11,19. Matt 24:10,12.)


Within the following" FACTIONS " of Christianity.,



Roman catholic, Greek, Coptic and Russian orthodox, Anglican, Calvinist, Lutheran, Churches of christ, Seventh day adventists, Congregational, Baptist, Methodist, Presbyterian, Pentecostals, Assemblies of god, Apostolic assemblies, Victory outreach assemblies, C.O.R.E. assemblies, Exclusive and non-exclusive Brethren assemblies, together with in excess of *TWENTY EIGHT THOUSAND*' Evangelical ' FACTIONS which are found within christianity.
(** NOTE: Barrett's " World-wide Encyclopedia of Christianity " records in the 1988 edition:
" In Christianity there are in the region of 28,000 ( YES! Twenty Eight Thousand ) different denominations "('FACTIONS'); and further describes this as " Sectarianism run riot ". This encyclopedia also makes the following ****ing statement:
"(the members of)these distinct denominations ALL HATE ONE ANOTHER".)


" BABYLON THE GREAT
(Roman Catholicism)...
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
(Thousands of christian denominations )...
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS
(Blasphemous names, titles and practices)...
OF THE EARTH"
(Revelation 17:5)
"BABYLON THE GREAT, IS FALLEN, IS FALLEN; SHE HAS BECOME A DWELLING PLACE OF DEMONS A HAUNT OF EVERY UNCLEAN SPIRIT AND A HAUNT OF EVERY UNCLEAN AND HATEFUL BIRD "
(Revelation 18:2)



ALMIGHTY GOD, THE FATHER OF JESUS CHRIST,URGENTLY CALLS TO HIS PEOPLE TRAPPED WITHIN THESE " CHRISTIAN FACTIONS "

" COME OUT FROM AMONG THEM (by REPENTING AND BELIEVING THE GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM) MY PEOPLE LEST, YOU TAKE PART IN THEIR SINS AND THAT YOU DO NOT RECEIVE OF THEIR PLAGUES..."
(Revelation 18:4).

WHO ARE

THE APOSTLES OF JESUS CHRIST ?


THE NAMES OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF JESUS CHRIST ARE THESE:
(Matthew 10:2. Revelation 21:14)


(1) SIMON who is called PETER and (2) ANDREW his brother
(3) JAMES the son of Zebedee and (4) JOHN his brother
(5) PHILIP and (6) BARTHOLOMEW
(7) THOMAS and (8) MATTHEW the publican
(9) JAMES the son of Alphaeus and
(10)JUDE the brother of James
(11)SIMON the canaanite and (12) MATTHIAS who replaced Judas
(Matthew 10:2-4. Acts 1:13,26)


THESE TWELVE NAMES ARE THE ONLY NAMES OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB
RECORDED IN HEAVEN
" AND THE WALL HAD TWELVE FOUNDATION STONES, AND ON THEM WERE THE TWELVE NAMES OF OF THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB"
(REVELATION 21:14)
and acknowledged by DISCIPLES OF JESUS everywhere.


THE QUALIFICATIONS OF A TRUE APOSTLE


The QUALIFICATIONS of a TRUE APOSTLE OF JESUS CHRIST were spelled out by THE APOSTLE PETER, when a successor to Judas was appointed:

" Therefore of these men who have accompanied us ALL THE TIME that the Lord Jesus went in and out amongst us; BEGINNING FROM THE BAPTISM OF JOHN until that SAME DAY WHEN HE WAS TAKEN UP FROM US, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of HIS RESURRECTION"
(Acts 1:21,22 ).


THIS DIVINE TEST WAS APPLIED BY THE DISCIPLES AT EPHESUS
WHICH PROVED
THAT PAUL, BARNABAS, TIMOTHY, SILVANUS and OTHERS
WERE
FALSE APOSTLES AND LIARS
(Revelation 2:2)

THESE LIARS FAILED TO MEET THE TEST SET BY PETER

THIS SAME TEST PROVES THAT EVERY POPE AND OTHERS WHO CLAIM THAT THEY ARE APOSTLES

ARE ALSO LIARS




There are those who will vehemently defend the inerrancy of the Word of God and then completely ignore HOW it was compiled, filtered, and put together by pagans!

The Council of Nicea in 325 in Rome DECIDED for us what books would be included and what would be official church doctrine. Constantine was the ultimate approver or disprover, not a Spirit led born again believer in Jesus! Most will claim Constantine was a believer, what they don't tell you is that Constantine didn't convert until he was on his deathbed! Which means the early church majority did nothing as a pagan compiled and TOLD US what doctrine was true or false!

It is the duty of every believer in Y'hoshua Jesus to go back and learn what the truth really is before Constantine corrupted the church!

Pray for truth in all things daily and seek Yah for the truth!! Not man!!







Jesus said..
Hereafter I will not talk much with you, for the prince of this world comes and has nothing in me. The thief comes not but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in Truth, because there is no Truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks of his own, for he is a liar and the father of it." Mark 4.15, John 14.30, John 10.10, & John 8.44.

The following list cites some of the ways that Paul fulfills the role of Satan-in-the-flesh who comes immediately and takes away the Word of God that was sown in man's heart:

Paul came on the heels of our Lord when the disciples had just begun doing the works of spreading the Word that God had set before them. Paul's assaults against, and imprisonment of, the Lord's disciples then snatched the Truth away from the people who had only begun to hear Truth spoken through those imprisoned disciples.
After Paul's conversion, his distortion of the Lord's Doctrine taught by the disciples immediately following the disciples' works stole the Truth away from the people who had heard what the disciples had said but then trusted Paul's lies.
When Paul started preaching, he infuriated people so severely that they wanted to murder him. By distracting people's attention away from hearing and adhering to the Word of God, Paul was snatching the Truth away from them.
By the time the Lord's disciples had figured out that Paul was a heavy-duty bad guy, it was too late. Christianity's founder, Paul had already become firmly enmeshed in the Christian mind as being the Lord's greatest apostle. Thus, even though Peter and James wrote the letter confronting Paul's apostasy, Satan had already taken the Truth away from the Christians. Christian leaders destroyed the letter, and adamently defended Paul's apostasy. In doing so, the Christian fathers were asserting that Paul was superior to Peter, and that Paul, not Peter, was the rock upon whom the Lord built His church.
When the Bible was printed into the form of one book, Paul's writings were inserted to the right of the Gospel. All the people who studied the Gospel and received it, but then turned to Paul's dogma and trusted it as being authentically of God, had the Truth taken away from them by Satan Paul's horrendous misinterpretations and misapplications of the Gospel.
When we go to a Christian church and hear the Word of God spoken, the vast majority of times the priest or preacher will then attempt to interpret and override the Truth spoken by Jesus with Paul's blasphemous dogmanure. The people who then trust their priests and preachers to be telling God's Truth immediately experience Satan taking away their understanding of the Word of God from them.
Some of the words that the Spirit of the Son of man spoke to the Old Testament prophets have been lost, polluted, twisted, and distorted by false interpretations of their writings. Such is especially true of David's psalms. Wherever the Christian scribes and translators did not understand what was being said, they inserted words that had not been written by the prophets at all, and they did so from the position of applying Paul's dogma to the prophets' writings. Therein was Paul again the primary source of having the Truth snatched away from people.
Read Acts of the Antichrist





In his first letter to his Corinthian followers, 'Paul'dared to quote from the The Prophet Jeremiah "JUST AS IT IS WRITTEN, LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD."(1 Corinthians 1:31).

The Prophet Jeremiah writes "But LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST OF THIS, that he understands and knows ME, that I am THE LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD"(Jeremiah 9:24)

'Paul'dared to call on his 'god' SATAN,to assist him in "TRAMPLING" on "THE WORD OF THE LORD"(written in Jeremiah 9:24)

"But god forbid that I should BOAST in ANYTHING, but ONLY in the CROSS"(Galations 6:14).



With this BLASPHEMOUS 'boast', the devil and false apostle 'Paul' introduced, to mankind, "THE CROSS", as "THE MARK OF THE BEAST" (Rev 19:20).


'PAUL' MISQUOTED PSALM 68:18 to MAKE WAY FOR THE MANY ANTICHRISTS.
The devil and false apostle 'Paul' MISQUOTED the words of PSALM 68:18, in his infamous letter to the Ephesians where he TOOK AWAY FROM the words of 68:18 which read "HE (GOD,THE FATHER) RECEIVED gifts FROM among men" (Verse 18).
The devil 'Paul' CHANGED THE WORDS OF PSALM 68:18 to read "he('another jesus') GAVE gifts TO men" (Ephesians 4:8) to justify his appointment of "THE TARES, THE CHILDREN OF THE EVIL ONE" (Matthew 13:25,38).


'PAUL' THE FATHER OF THE TARES
"THE EVIL ONE" 'Paul' gave assurances to his "TARES" that he was their father by writing to them "I (Paul) BECAME YOUR FATHER THROUGH the gospel which I preach" (1 Corinthians 4:15)


THE 'TARES' OF CHRISTIANITY REVEALED




'Paul' himself gave them titles:

" Apostles and prophets, fathers, pastors, evangelists and teachers...bishops, deacons,exorcists, miracle workers, speakers in unknown languages, administrators etc "
(Eph 4:11. Phil. 1:1. 1 Corinthians 4:15).

These can be found within the *TWENTY EIGHT THOUSAND* CHRISTIAN DENOMINATIONS and bearing the following diabolical titles:

Popes, cardinals, patriarchs, moderators, monsignors, apostles, prophets, fathers, pastors, teachers, evangelists, bishops, deacons, miracle workers, speakers in unknown tongues, exorcists, administrators, priests, sisters, nuns, clergy, clergymen, 'christian brothers' etc.


Paul said, “For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?” This is the kind of man that Christianity was based on? The whole law concerning Christianity hangs on the words of a man who lied to get your loyalty? He altered the teachings of Jesus Christ as well as remitted the laws of the Prophets (Matthew 5:17-18) He said over and over that it was ok to lie to get people to believe what you were preaching/teaching! Then he couldn't get it! He was complaining of being judged as a sinner even if his lying was "meant" to produce good!" What Good comes from lying? Jesus said all liars would have their part in the Lake of Fire!" Now who's right? Jesus or Paul?


'PAUL' wrote "Let him who BOASTS, boast of THE LORD" (1 Corinthians 1:31); which is a quotation from the Prophet Jeremiah where ALMIGHTY GOD commands those who love HIM:
"but let him who boasts BOAST of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the LORD who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things," declares the LORD" (Jeremiah 9:24)

'Paul' then TRAMPLED ON THE above word.
He ('Paul) dared to call on his 'god'SATAN to prevent him (Paul) from obeying the command of ALMIGHTY GOD; when he (Paul) wrote "But god forbid that I should BOAST ONLY IN THE CROSS" (Galations 6:14)

'Paul' TRAMPLED on the word written by the Prophet Jeremiah by EXALTING 'the cross' above "ALMIGHTY GOD" (Jer (9:24).
'PAUL' and his christian followers have, over the last two thousand years, EXALTED "THE ABOMINATION",'the cross' above "ALMIGHTY GOD".
Yeshua (Jesua) the Messiah declares that "WHAT IS EXALTED AMONG MEN IS AN ABOMINATION IN THE SIGHT OF GOD"(Luke 16:15).
Yeshua (Jesus) further pointed out that this EXALTATION OF 'the cross' is "THE ABOMINATION WHICH DESOLATES, STANDING IN THE HOLY PLACE (IN THE PLACE OF THE HOLY FATHER) spoken by the Prophet Daniel".
"The devil 'Paul' and his angels (Matthew 13:25,39. 25:46), reject the DIVINELY APPOINTED RULE OF YESHUA THE MESSIAH by declaring
"WE DO NOT WANT THIS MAN (YESHUA) TO RULE OVER US"(Luke 19:14).

These "UNGODLY"(Psalm 1:5), self proclaimed, teachers, proclaim the LIE that "YESHUA (JESUS) IS NOT THE PROPHET, MESSIAH, THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF THE ONLY TRUE GOD, THE FATHER" (Deut 18:15-22. Isaiah 9:6. Psalm 2:7. John 3:16. John 17:3).

The self confessed "ungodly" followers of the devil 'Paul' believe his lying claim to being "the son of God", when he wrote:
"god was pleased to reveal his son in me (Paul)"(Galations 1:7).

In fulfilment of the prophecy and warning of YESHUA THE MESSIAH, 'Paul' and his fellow "demons"(Matthew 13:38(b).Rev 16:14. 18:2) "showed signs and wonders"(Acts 15:12) in order to try and "deceive, if possible" the elected twelve apostles and disciples of Yeshua" (Matthew 24:24).

'PAUL' GATHERED "THE TARES" TOGETHER IN ANTIOCH
In fulfilment of the prophetic warning of YESHUA (JESUS), the devil 'Paul' and his christian fellow workers first GATHERED THEMSELVES TOGETHER in ANTIOCH before the "generation" still living at the time of Yeshua had "passed away",(Matthew 24:34).

They very quickly travelled "Around on sea and land" (Matthew 23:15) to make more "disciples of 'Paul'(Acts 9:19. 11:26) and made them "twice as much a son of hell"(Matthew 23:15).

Even as the "Gospel of the kingdom was being preached as a witness concerning YESHUA (JESUS), to all nations" (Matthew 24:14); even then, in the lifetime of "this generation" of the twelve apostles (Matthew 24:34), "the end came" (Matthew 24:34) when "THE DEVIL and FALSE APOSTLE 'PAUL' and his children "THE TARES" the popes and clergy of Christianity preached 'another jesus' and another gospel'.





For the last two thousand years Christians have "EXALTED" 'the cross' on top of their places worship; have introduced a special feast day called 'The feast of the exaltation of the cross' when christians worship and kiss 'the cross'; have worn an image of 'the cross' around their necks as a superstitious talisman to 'ward off evil'; BOAST that they "are saved by 'the cross' etc, etc.

The Christian followers receive 'THE SIGN OF THE CROSS' "ON their RIGHT HANDS and on their FOREHEADS".
This SIGN OF 'THE CROSS' is "THE MARK OF THE BEAST" (Revelation 13:16)

BABYLON THE GREAT

Having appointed the "TARES" and EXALTED 'the cross' "IN THE PLACE OF GOD,THE FATHER", Christianity, moved its headquarters to ROME, BABYLON THE GREAT (Rev 17:5) when 'Paul' "WENT AWAY " (Matthew 13:25) to "ROME" as Yeshua (Jesus) prophesied.

'Paul' "WENT AWAY" to "BABYLON(ROME)".

ANTI-SEMITISM and 'ANOTHER jesus and ANOTHER gospel
'Paul' accomplished this "ESCAPE FROM JUSTICE FOR PREACHING ANTISEMITISM"(Acts 25:8) and preaching 'Another jesus' and 'another gospel'(2 Corinthiands 11:4),with the assistance of HEROD who arranged to have 'Paul' shipped to ROME under the pretext of being "a prisoner".


Upon his arrival in ROME, "THE DRAGON"(Rev 16:13) 'Paul' was provided by Caesar,with a luxurious villa, from which he supervised, marshalled and disciplined his evil workers.

Whilst in ROME 'Paul' was also provided, by Caesar, with a Roman "soldier" (Acts 28:16) for his protection.

'Paul's' Papal successors, many taking the name of 'Paul' at their coronation as 'pope', have headed up the twenty eight thousand denominations of Christianity, founded by 'Paul' in ANTIOCH, for the last two thousand years.

Whereas 'Paul' was provided with one "soldier" for his protection, every pope, also known as "THE BEAST" (Rev 16:13),is provided with a large contingent of soldiers, known as 'The Vatican Guard'.

The papal "BEASTS" have over the last two thousand years, just like 'Paul', taken the name 'pope-papa' which is the latin word for 'father' and 'vicar of christ' which means 'instead of Christ'.

Like 'Paul' these popes, blaspheme THE NAME of YHWH and THE NAME of YESHUA, THE MESSIAH; WHO ARE SEATED ON MOUNT ZION; by taking to themselves the NAMES "Holy Father" and "vicar of Christ", at their coronation.

As a result "THE WHOLE WORLD ARE AMAZED AS THEY FOLLOW THE DRAGON 'PAUL'; THE PAPAL BEASTS OF ROME, WHO SUCCEEDED 'PAUL' AND THE MANY CHRISTIAN ANTICHRISTS WHO BEWITCH THEIR FOLLOWERS" (REVELATION 13:3))
'ANOTHER JESUS'preached by 'Paul'and his Christian ministers.
"THE TWELVE APOSTLE OF THE LAMB preached "IN ALL THE WORLD" THE "GOOD NEWS" OF "YESHUA THE MESSIAH", whose "BODY OF FLESH WAS NOT ALLOWED TO SEE CORRUPTION AND WHO IS SEATED IN GLORY, AT THE FATHER'S RIGHT HAND, IN HEAVEN " (Revelation 21:14. Luke 24:39. Acts 2:31. Matthew 26:64. Psalm 110:1).
Some twenty years after the "TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB, THE SONS OF GOD, THE FATHER" first began preaching "THE GOOD NEWS OF THE KINGDOM" (Matthew 24:14), the "DEVIL 'Paul' and "HIS ANGELS, THE SONS OF SATAN "(Matthew 13:38, 25:46) preached "another (disembodied) jesus with NO flesh and blood" (2 Corinthians 11:4. Acts 22:9. 1 Corinthians 15:20).

'A DIFFERENT GOSPEL'preached by 'Paul'
Instead of "THIS GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM PREACHED BY THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB IN ALL THE WORLD"(Matthew 24:14. 26:13), the "devil 'Paul' and his angels, by their own admission,preach "a different gospel...promting "LAWLESSNESS" (Jude 4)by saying that, according to 'Paul's' gospel "all things are lawful"(2 Corinthians 11:4. 1 Corinthians 10:23).
This ANTI-CHRIST 'Paul' and his "MANY ANTI-CHRISTS", warned of by Yeshua are the "UNGODLY PERSONS PERVERTING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO LAWLESSNESS" (Jude 4) and "LEADING MANY ASTRAY" (Matthew 24:4,5). for the last tWO THOUSAND YEARS




THE TRUE GOSPEL and THE FALSE 'gospel '.
(Luke 1:50. 23:40. Revelation 14:6,7)

THE TRUE ETERNAL GOSPEL
IS THE GOSPEL FOR THOSE "WHO FEAR GOD"
PREACHED BY YESHUA (JESUS) OF NAZARETH
AND BY THE TWELVE APOSTLES
OF YESHUA THE MESSIAH (JESUS CHRIST)

"...them also who shall believe in me THROUGH THEIR WORD".
(John 17:20)
"FEAR GOD AND GIVE HIM GLORY"

" FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD
THAT HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON
THAT WHOEVER
BELIEVES
THAT YESHUA (JESUS) OF NAZARETH
IS THE MESSIAH (CHRIST)
THE ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF
THE ONLY TRUE GOD, THE FATHER,
THAT PERSON
WILL NOT PERISH
BUT HAVE
EVERLASTING LIFE "
(Revelation 14:6. Luke 1:50. John 3:16. Matthew 16:16. John 17:3. John 20:31)

YESHUA (JESUS)THE MESSIAH AND THE TWELVE APOSTLES OF THE LAMB
PREACHED THIS
THE ONLY TRUE ETERNAL GOSPEL OF THE KINGDOM.

(Mark 1:15. Matthew 24:14. John 17:20)

THIS IS THE ONLY ETERNAL GOSPEL
OR GOOD NEWS
FROM HEAVEN.
(Matthew 21:25. John 17:20)

WHICH GOD,THE FATHER,CALLS UPON EVERYONE WHO "FEARS GOD", TO " BELIEVE "
(Luke 1:50. Deuteronomy 18:15. John 20:31).
TO RECEIVE ETERNAL LIFE and THE FORGIVENESS OF SINS
(John 20:31. 1 John 5:1)

_____________
_____________


THE FALSE 'gospel'

WARNED AGAINST BY YESHUA (JESUS) THE TRUE MESSIAH (CHRIST), AND HIS TWELVE APOSTLES


" For false Christs, and false prophets,will arise and will show great signs and wonders; so that, if it were possible, they would deceive the very elect"
(Matthew 24:24)
" For certain men have crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, UNGODLY MEN, turning the grace of our God into liscentiousness, even denying the only Lord God (The Father), and our Lord Jesus Christ(The Only Begotten son of the Father)."
(Jude 1:4)

PREACHED BY THE DEVIL AND FALSE APOSTLE 'PAUL' AND HIS ANGELS

(Matthew 13:25-50)
TO THOSE WHO HAVE "NO FEAR OF GOD" (Romans 3:18).
This FALSE 'gospel' is summed up in the LIES preached by the devil'Paul' and his "UNGODLY" Christian ministers and summarised in Chapter 15 verses 1-8 in 'Paul's' first infamous letter to the "UNGODLY" (Jude 4) Corinthians.



THE FALSE TEACHINGS OF THE "LIAR" 'Paul'

FIRST LIE: PERVERTING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD


'Paul' wrote the LIE to those "Who HAVE NO FEAR OF GOD" (Romans 3:18); "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for OUR sins, the sins of the UNGODLY" (1 Cor 15:3. Romans 5:6).


The Word of God as recorded in Psalm 1 and Jude 4 emphasise that:
"THE UNGODLY ARE LIKE THE CHAFF WHICH THE WIND DRIVES AWAY"
"THE UNGODLY WILL NOT STAND IN THE JUDGEMENT "
"UNGODLY MEN (Who HAVE NO FEAR OF GOD), SECRETLY CREPT IN PERVERTING THE GRACE OF OUR GOD INTO LICENTIOUSNESS"
(Psalm 1:4,5 Jude 4)

SECOND LIE: RESURRECTION APPEARANCES

'Paul' wrote the LIE "that Christ (first)appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve" (1 Cor. 15:5).



The Word of God as recorded in Matthew, Mark, Luke and John emphasise that Yeshua (Jesus) the Messiah "FIRST" appeared to "THE WOMEN" (Matthew 28:9. Mark 16:9. Luke 24:10. John 20:14,15)
It is not therefore surprising that 'Paul' and his Christian ministers despise and hate women and treat them as second class citizens


THIRD LIE:

'Paul' wrote the LIE "After that he appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time" ( 1 Cor. 15:6)


The apostle Peter testifies that "the number of names ALTOGETHER were about a hundred and twenty disciples" (Acts 1:15)

FOURTH LIE: YESHUA , THE MESSIAH DID NOT APPEAR TO 'Paul'

'Paul' wrote the LIE "and last of all, as to one untimely born, he appeared to me also" (1 Cor. 15:8)


Luke together with 'Paul's' own testimony confirms that 'Paul' DID NOT SEE THE RISEN YESHUA (JESUS) but "SAW A DISEMBODIED LIGHT" (Acts 9:3. 22:9)


THIS FALSE 'gospel' THE EVIL FRUIT OF THE DEVIL 'PAUL' AND HIS ANGELS COMES FROM THE BOTTOMLESS PIT OF HELL
(Matthew 13:25,38,39. Revelation 9:2)





A female who was raised in Christianity, has been taught that:

We could never be good enough to serve God. And if we do it should be privately at home barefoot and pregnant and scrubbing floors!
What we think and feel doesn't matter! We're just to be slaves to men and that's that!.
We ought not to express emotions of anger, because a self-assertive female was a sinner.
I was only here on earth to serve the wants and needs of others, especially those of my husband, children, parents, and inlaws.
Is that what Jesus taught? No!!

God does not condone preferential treatment granted to or by any humans including His prophets. Equal rights, equal access, equal freedoms, protections, and opportunities under the law are commanded by God to all people everywhere in the world regardless of race, gender, age, status, OR level of Spirituality.

Read what Jesus really taught about discrimination, this prophet hits it right on the head!








666 in Hebrew Means....



"Fear God, and give Him glory, because the hour of His judgment has come; worship Him who made the heaven and the earth and sea and springs of waters."
"Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality,
but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him".
(Acts 10:34, 35)








they say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan

Paul the First Heretic

the excommunication of Paul

Paul, apostle or heretic?

James, Paul, and the Dead Sea Scrolls




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Links From Others:

Read Acts of the Antichrist

Paul's Epistle to the Romans Exposed

Ephesians

Philippians

Colossians

although the above links were not written by me, she hits it right on the head! Read how a recovering alcoholic finds Jesus and is shown the truth about Paul! Humorous at times, it's packed with information! I dont' agree with everything these sites say, but they hit Paul on the head and reveal who and what he really was.




Ok, so now you're wondering if any of this is really true. When Yah kept leading me to this there were many times I had my doubts. So I know what you're going through and thinking. Yah kept bringing several of the points made on this website to my mind. He led me to people and places and books for a long time before I finally accepted it as the self evident truth that it is. Some of the facts He kept bringing to my mind during times of doubt and questioning and prayer were these:
1. There are three different accounts of Paul's testimony of the Damascus Road Revelation that we know of in the Scriptures (probably many more that we don't even know of), the very words out of Paul's mouth. All 3 were different accounts of the same event. These weren't translation errors, they were different stories of the same event as told by PAUL. Why the differences? Because Liars can't keep up with the truth. The Apostles didn't believe Paul's story and we shouldn't either.

2. After this "divine revelation" Paul disappeared for 2 years into the wilderness to receive more and more revelations. There were never any accounts listed anywhere from any of the soldiers or witnesses who were there to confirm that this event really happened. He never sought the disciples or to learn from them Yah's ways and teachings directly from the men who knew Yah the most. He claimed by divine revelation the very falsehood that almost got him excommunicated from the church completely! He argued with the apostles that circumcision was no longer necessary and in Jesus would profit them nothing when circumcision was a command, a sign of the covenant Yah made with Israel! To escape excommunication, Paul relented and stopped preaching his falsehood on circumcision. In other words, Paul's revelation wasn't so divine when it was held up and scrutinized in God's Word. Paul was exposed for the fraud and liar he was! And instead of dealing with him once and for all the disciples "swept him under the rug."

I don't think any of the apostles realized at the time how dangerous this Paul was going to be to the church today. When they visited cities and towns Paul had preached in, they spent their time undoing the damage Paul did and setting the people straight on doctrine. In fact it got so bad the entire area of Asia completely rejected Paul! They didn't even want to see him! When he was thrown in prison in Rome the people wouldn't even visit him!

Yet, almost half of the New Testament today are books Paul wrote. Hindsight..would have been nice. But Yah allowed it to serve His own purposes. Just as He allowed the serpent to bequile Eve in the garden of Eden.

How many preachers today have "divine revelations" and have introduced false, heretical, and blasphemous teachings and doctrines into the churches?

Now you know where it started.

3. Some will say that through translations Paul's words were twisted and he was made to look bad by the transcribers themselves. For this, I refer you to point #1 and #2.






http://www.justgivemethetruth.com/paul_was_a_deceiver.htm
 
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let me make your life easier about the lost cities too here we go


THE LOST CITY OF UBAR

THE PEOPLE OF 'AD AND UBAR, THE ATLANTIS OF THE SANDS



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At the beginning of 1990, there appeared press-releases in the well-known newspapers of the world declaring “Fabled Lost Arabian city found”, “Arabian city of Legend found”, “The Atlantis of the Sands, Ubar”. What rendered this archaeological find more intriguing was the fact that this city was also referred to in the Qur’an. Many people who, since then, thought that ‘Ad recounted in the Qur’an were a legend or that their location could never be found, could not conceal their astonishment at this discovery. The discovery of this city, which was only mentioned in oral stories of Bedouins, awoke great interest and curiosity.

Well, what was it that proved this city to be the city of the people of ‘Ad mentioned in the Qur’an?

Right from the moment remains started to be unearthed, it was understood that this ruined city belonged to ‘Ad and of Iram’s pillars mentioned in the Qur’an, because among the structures unearthed were the towers particularly referred to in the Qur’an. A member of the research team leading the excavation, Dr. Zarins, said that since the towers were alleged to be the distinctive feature of Ubar, and since Iram was mentioned as having towers or pillars, this then was the strongest proof so far that the site they had unearthed was Iram, the city of ‘Ad described in the Qur’an. The Qur’an mentions Iram as follows:

Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the 'Ad (people),- Of the (city of) Iram, with lofty pillars, The like of which were not produced in (all) the land? (The Holy Qur'an: Surat al-Fajr, 6-8)

1. Ubar, could only be seen from space before excavations were made.

2. A city 12 metres below the sands was uncovered by excavations.




For Additional Information Use The Following Links:



The People of 'Ad and Ubar

Lost City of Arabia (PBS)

The Search For Ubar (NASA)

Radar Image of Ubar

Nova Online Broadcast Transcript



And the 'Ad, they were destroyed by a furious Wind,exceedingly violent;
He made it rage against them seven nights and eight days in succession: so that thou couldst see the (whole) people lying prostrate in its (path), as they had been roots of hollow palm-trees tumbled down! Then seest thou any of them left surviving? (Surat al-Haaqqa: 6-8)

Another people who were destroyed and who are mentioned in various Surah of the Qur’an is ‘Ad, who are mentioned after the people of Nuh. Being sent to ‘Ad, Hud summoned his people, just like all the other prophets had done, to believe in Allah without ascribing partners to Him and to obey him, the prophet of that time. The people reacted to Hud with animosity. They accused him of imprudence, untruthfulness, and attempting to change the system their ancestors had established.

In Surah Hud, all that passed between Hud and his people is told in detail;

To the Ad People (We sent) Hud, one of their own brethren. He said: “O my people! worship Allah! ye have no other god but Him. (Your other gods) ye do nothing but invent!
O my people! I ask of you no reward for this (Message). My reward is from none but Him who created me: Will ye not then understand?
And O my people! Ask forgiveness of your Lord, and turn to Him (in repentance): He will send you the skies pouring abundant rain, and add strength to your strength: so turn ye not back in sin!”
They said: “O Hud! No Clear (Sign) that hast thou brought us, and we are not the ones to desert our gods on thy word! Nor shall we believe in thee!
We say nothing but that (perhaps) some of our gods may have seized thee with imbecility.”
He said: “I call Allah to witness, and do ye bear witness, that I am free from the sin of ascribing, to Him, Other gods as partners! so scheme (your worst) against me, all of you, and give me no respite. I put my trust in Allah, My Lord and your Lord! There is not a moving creature, but He hath grasp of its fore-lock. Verily, it is my Lord that is on a straight Path.
If ye turn away,- I (at least) have conveyed the Message with which I was sent to you. My Lord will make another people to succeed you, and you will not harm Him in the least. For my Lord hath care and watch over all things.”
So when Our decree issued, We saved Hud and those who believed with him, by (special) Grace from Ourselves: We saved them from a severe penalty.
Such were the Ad People: they rejected the Signs of their Lord and Cherisher; disobeyed His messengers; And followed the command of every powerful, obstinate transgressor.
And they were pursued by a Curse in this life - and on the Day of Judgment. Ah! Behold! for the 'Ad rejected their Lord and Cherisher! Ah! Behold! removed (from sight) were 'Ad the people of Hud! (Surah Hud: 50-60)

Another Surah mentioning ‘Ad is Surat ash-Shuara. In this Surah, some characteristics of ‘Ad are emphasised. According to this, ‘Ad were a people who “build a landmark on every high place” , and its members “get for themselves fine buildings in the hope of living therein (for ever)”. Besides, they did mischief and behaved brutally. When Hud warned his people, they commented that his words were “a customary device of the ancients”. They were very confident that nothing would happen to them;

The 'Ad (people) rejected the messengers.
Behold, their brother Hud said to them: “Will ye not fear (Allah)?
I am to you a messenger worthy of all trust:
So fear Allah and obey me. No reward do I ask of you for it: my reward is only from the Lord of the Worlds.
Do ye build a landmark on every high place to amuse yourselves? And do ye get for yourselves fine buildings in the hope of living therein (for ever)? And when ye exert your strong hand, do ye do it like men of absolute power?
Now fear Allah, and obey me.
Yea, fear Him Who has bestowed on you freely all that ye know.
Freely has He bestowed on you cattle and sons,-
And Gardens and Springs.
Truly I fear for you the Penalty of a Great Day.”
They said: “It is the same to us whether thou admonish us or be not among (our) admonishers!
This is no other than a customary device of the ancients, And we are not the ones to receive Pains and Penalties!”
So they rejected him, and We destroyed them. Verily in this is a Sign: but most of them do not believe.
And verily thy Lord is He, the Exalted in Might, Most Merciful.
(Surat ash-Shuara: 123-140)

The people who showed animosity to Hud and rebelled against Allah, were indeed destroyed. A horrible sandstorm annihilated ‘Ad as if they had “never existed”.




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The Archaeological Findings of the City of Iram
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At the beginning of 1990, there appeared press-releases in the well-known newspapers of the world declaring “Fabled Lost Arabian city found”, “Arabian city of Legend found”, “The Atlantis of the Sands, Ubar”. What rendered this archaeological find more intriguing was the fact that this city was also referred to in the Qur’an. Many people who, since then, thought that ‘Ad recounted in the Qur’an were a legend or that their location could never be found, could not conceal their astonishment at this discovery. The discovery of this city, which was only mentioned in oral stories of Bedouins, awoke great interest and curiosity.

It was Nicholas Clapp, an amateur archaeologist, who found this legendary city mentioned in the Qur’an. (7) Being an Arabophile and a winning documentary film maker, Clapp had come across a very interesting book during his research on Arabian history. This book was Arabia Felix written by the English researcher Bertram Thomas in 1932. Arabia Felix was the Roman designation for the southern part of the Arabian Peninsula which today includes Yemen and much of Oman. The Greeks called this area “Eudaimon Arabia” and medieval Arab scholars called it “Al-Yaman as-Saida”. (8)


All of these names mean “Fortunate Arabia”, because the people living in that region in old times were known to be the most fortunate people of their time. Well, what was the reason for such a designation?

Their good fortune was in part due to their strategic location - serving as middlemen in the spice trade between India and places north of the Arabian peninsula. Besides, the people living in this region produced and distributed “frankincense”, an aromatic resin from rare trees. Being highly favoured by the ancient communities, this plant was used as a fumigant in various religious rites. In those times, the plant was at least as valuable as gold.


The English researcher Thomas, described these “lucky” tribes at length and claimed that he found the traces of an ancient city founded by one of these tribes.(9) This was the city known as “Ubar” by the bedouins. In one of the trips he made to the region, the bedouins living in the desert had shown him well-worn tracks and stated that these tracks led toward the ancient city of Ubar. Thomas, who showed great interest in the subject, died before being able to complete his research.



Excavations made in Ubar


Clapp, who examined what the English researcher Thomas wrote, was convinced of the existence of the lost city described in the book. Without losing much time, he started his research.

Clapp tried two ways to prove the existence of Ubar. First, he found the tracks which the Bedoins said existed. He applied to NASA to provide the satellite images of the area. After a long struggle, he succeeded in persuading the authorities to take the pictures of the region.(10)

Clapp went on to study the ancient manuscripts and maps in the Huntington library in California. His aim was to find a map of the region. After a short research, he found one. What he found was a map drawn by the Greek-Egyptian geographer Ptolemy in 200. A.D. In the map was shown the location of an old city found in the region and the ways that led to this city.


Meanwhile, he received the news that the pictures had been taken by NASA. In the pictures, some caravan trails became visible which were difficult to identify with the naked eye, but could only be seen as a whole from the sky. Comparing these pictures with the old map he had to hand, Clapp finally reached the conclusion he was looking for: the trails in the old map corresponded with the trails in the pictures taken from the satellite. The final destination of these trails was a broad site understood to have once been a city.



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The location of the city of ‘Ad was discovered by photographs taken from the Space Shuttle. On the photograph, the place where caravan trails intersect is marked, and it points towards Ubar.


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1. Ubar, could only be seen from space before excavations were made.
2. A city 12 metres below the sands was uncovered by excavations.




Finally, the location of the legendary city which had been subject of the stories told orally by the bedouins was discovered. After a short while, excavations began and remains of an old city started to be uncovered under the sands. Thus, this lost city was described as “the Atlantis of the Sands, Ubar”.

Well, what was it that proved this city to be the city of the people of ‘Ad mentioned in the Qur’an?

Right from the moment remains started to be unearthed, it was understood that this ruined city belonged to ‘Ad and of Iram’s pillars mentioned in the Qur’an, because among the structures unearthed were the towers particularly referred to in the Qur’an. A member of the research team leading the excavation, Dr. Zarins, said that since the towers were alleged to be the distinctive feature of Ubar, and since Iram was mentioned as having towers or pillars, this then was the strongest proof so far that the site they had unearthed was Iram, the city of ‘Ad described in the Qur’an. The Qur’an mentions Iram as follows;

Seest thou not how thy Lord dealt with the 'Ad (people),-
Of the (city of) Iram, with lofty pillars,
The like of which were not produced in (all) the land? (Surat al-Fajr: 6-8)




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The People of ‘Ad
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So far, we have seen that Ubar could possibly be the city of Iram mentioned in the Qur’an. According to the Qur’an, the inhabitants of the city did not listen to the prophet Hud, who had brought a message to them and who warned them, and so they perished.

The identity of ‘Ad who found the city of Iram has also created much debate. In historical records, there is no mention of a people having such a developed culture or of the civilisation they established. It might be thought quite strange that the name of such a people is not found in historical records.

On the other hand, it shouldn’t be so surprising not to come across the presence of these people in the records and archives of old civilisations. The reason for that is that these people lived in South Arabia, which was a region distant from other people living in the Mesopotamia region and the Middle East, and which only had a restricted relationship with them. It was a common situation for a state, which is scarcely known, not to be recorded in the historical records. On the other hand, it is possible to hear stories among people in the Middle East about ‘Ad.

The most important reason why ‘Ad have not been mentioned in the written records is that written communication was not common in the region at that time. Therefore, it is possible to think that ‘Ad founded a civilisation but this civilisation had not been mentioned in the historical records of those other civilisations that kept documentation. If this culture had existed a little longer, maybe much more would be known about these people in our day.

There is no written record of ‘Ad, but it is possible to find important information about their “descendants” and to have an idea about ‘Ad in the light of this information.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hadramites, the descendants of ‘Ad
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The first place to be looked at while searching for the traces of a probable civilisation established by ‘Ad or their descendants, is South Yemen, where “The Atlantis of the Sands, Ubar” is found and which is referred to as “Fortunate Arabia”. In South Yemen, four peoples have existed before our time who are named “Fortunate Arabs” by the Greeks. These are the Hadramites, Sabaeans, Minaeans and Qatabaeans. These four peoples reigned for a while together in territories close to each other.

Many contemporary scientists say that ‘Ad entered into a period of transformation and then re-appeared on the stage of history. Dr. Mikail H. Rahman, a researcher at the University of Ohio, believes that ‘Ad are the ancestors of the Hadramites, one of the four peoples who lived in South Yemen. Appearing around 500 B.C., The Hadramites are the least known among the people called “Fortunate Arabs”. These people reigned over the region of South Yemen for a very long time and disappeared totally in 240 A.D. at the end of a long period of decline.

The name of Hadrami hints that those may be the descendants of ‘Ad. The Greek writer Pliny, living at the 3rd Century B.C. referred to this tribe as “Adramitai” - meaning the Hadrami.(11) The termination of the Greek name is a noun-suffix, the noun being “Adram” which immediately suggests that it is a possible corruption of “Ad-i Iram” mentioned in the Qur’an.

The Greek geographer Ptolemy (150-100 A.D.) shows the south of the Arabian Peninsula as the place where the people called “Adramitai” lived. This region has been known by the name of “Hadhramaut” until recently. The capital city of the Hadrami State, Shabwah, was situated at the west of the Hadhramaut Valley. According to many old legends, the tomb of the prophet Hud, who was sent as a messenger to ‘Ad, is in Hadhramaut .

Another factor which tends to confirm the thought that the Hadramites are a continuation of ‘Ad, is their wealth. The Greeks defined the Hadramites as the “richest race in the world…”. Historical records say that the Hadramites had gone very far in the agriculture of “frankincense”, one of the most valuable plants of the time. They had found new areas of usage for the plant and widened its usage. The agricultural production of the Hadramites was much higher than production of this plant in our day.

What has been found in the excavations made in Shabwah, which is known to have been the capital city of the Hadramites, is very interesting. In these excavations which started in 1975, it was extremely difficult for archaeologists to reach the remains of the city due to the deep sand dunes. The finds obtained by the end of the excavations were astonishing; because the uncovered ancient city was one of the most overwhelmingly interesting found until then. The walled town that was revealed was of a larger extent than of any other ancient Yemeni site and its palace was remarked to be a truly magnificent building

Doubtless, it was very logical to suppose that the Hadramites had inherited this architectural superiority from their forerunners, ‘Ad. Hud said to the people of ‘Ad while warning them;

Do ye build a landmark on every high place to amuse yourselves? And do ye get for yourselves fine buildings in the hope of living therein (for ever)? (Surat ash-Shuara: 128-129)

Another interesting characteristic of the buildings found at Shabwah was the elaborate columns. The columns that were at Shabwah seemed to be quite unique in being round and arranged in a circular portico, whereas all other sites in Yemen so far had been found to have square monolithic columns. The people of Shabwah must have inherited the architectural style of their ancestors, ‘Ad. Photius, a Greek Byzantine Patriarch of Constantinople in the 9th. Century A.D., made vast research on the Southern Arabs and their commercial activities because he had access to the old Greek manuscripts no longer extant in our day, and particularly the book of Agatharachides (132 B.C.), Concerning the Erythraean (Red) Sea. Photius said in one of his articles; “It is said that they (South Arabians) have built many columns covered in gold or made of silver. Spaces between these columns are remarkable to behold” (12)

Although the above statement of Photius does not directly refer to the Hadramites, it does give an idea of the affluence and building prowess of the people living in the region. Greek classical writers Pliny and Strabo describe these cities as “adorned with beautiful temples and palaces”.

When we think that the owners of these cities were the descendants of ‘Ad, it is clearly understood why the Qur’an defines the home of ‘Ad as “the city of Iram, with lofty pillars” (Surat al-Fajr: 7).




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The Springs and the Gardens of ‘Ad
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Today, the landscape that someone, who travels to Southern Arabia, would most frequently come across is the vast desert. Most of the places, with the exception of the cities and regions that have been later afforested, are covered with sand. These deserts have been there for hundreds and maybe thousands of years.

But in the Qur’an, an interesting information is given in one of the verses recounting ‘Ad. While warning his people, Prophet Hud draws their attention to the springs and gardens with which Allah had endowed them;

Now fear Allah, and obey me. Yea, fear Him Who has bestowed on you freely all that ye know. Freely has He bestowed on you cattle and sons,- And Gardens and Springs. Truly I fear for you the Penalty of a Great Day. (Surat ash-Shuara: 131-135)

But as we have noted before, Ubar, which has been identified with the city of Iram, and any other place which is likely to have been the residence of ‘Ad, is totally covered with desert today. So, why did Hud use such an expression while warning his people?

The answer is hidden in the climatic changes of history. Historical records reveal that these areas which have turned into desert now, had once been very productive and green lands. A great part of the region was covered with green areas and springs as told in the Qur’an, less than a few thousand years ago, and the people of the region made use of these endowments. The forests softened the harsh climate of the region and made it more habitable. Deserts existed, but did not cover such a vast area as today.

In Southern Arabia, important clues have been acquired in the regions where ‘Ad lived, which could cast a light upon this subject. These show that the inhabitants of that region used a highly developed irrigation system. This irrigation most probably served a single purpose: agriculture. In those regions, which are not appropriate for life today, people once cultivated the land.

Satellite imaging had also revealed an extensive system of ancient canals and dams used in irrigation around Ramlat as Sab’atayan which is estimated to have been able to support 200.000 people in the associated cities.(13) As Doe, one of the researchers conducting the research, said; “So fertile was the area around Ma’rib, that one might conceive that the whole region between Ma’rib and Hadhramaut was once under cultivation.” (14)

The Greek classical writer Pliny had described this region as being very fertile, and mist-covered with forested mountains, rivers and unbroken tracts of forests. In the inscriptions found in some ancient temples close to Shabwah, the capital city of the Hadramites, it was written that animals were hunted in this region and that some were sacrificed. All these reveal that this region was once covered with fertile lands as well as desert.

The speed with which the desert can encroach can be seen in some recent research done by the Smithsonian Institute in Pakistan where an area known to be fertile in the middle ages has turned into sandy desert, with dunes 6 meters high, the desert being found to expand on average 6 inches a day. At this speed, the sands can swallow even the highest buildings, and cover them as if they had never existed. Thus excavations at Timna in Yemen in the 1950’s have been almost completely covered up again. The Egyptian pyramids were also entirely under sands once and were only brought to light after very long-lasting excavations. Briefly, it is very clear that regions known to be desert today could have had different appearances in the past.




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How were ‘Ad ruined?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In the Qur’an, ‘Ad are said to have perished through a “furious wind”. In the verses, it is mentioned that this furious wind lasted for seven nights and eight days and destroyed ‘Ad totally.

The 'Ad (people) (too) rejected (Truth): then how terrible was My Penalty and My Warning? For We sent against them a furious wind, on a Day of violent Disaster, Plucking out men as if they were roots of palm-trees torn up (from the ground). (Surat al-Qamar: 18-20)

And the 'Ad, they were destroyed by a furious Wind, exceedingly violent. He made it rage against them seven nights and eight days in succession: so that thou couldst see the (whole) people lying prostrate in its (path), as they had been roots of hollow palm-trees tumbled down! (Surat al-Haaqqa: 6-7)

Though warned previously, the people had paid no attention to the warnings whatsoever and continuously refused their messengers. They were in such delusion that they could not even understand what was happening when they saw the destruction approaching them and continued with their denial.

Then, when they saw the (Penalty in the shape of) a cloud traversing the sky, coming to meet their valleys, they said, “This cloud will give us rain!”. Nay, it is the (Calamity) ye were asking to be hastened!- A wind wherein is a Grievous Penalty! (Surat al-Ahqaf : 24)

In the verse, it is stated that the people saw the cloud that would bring them calamity, but could not understand what it was and thought that it was a rain cloud. This is an important indication as to how the calamity was as it drew near to the people, because a cyclone proceeding along whipping up the desert sand also seems like a rain cloud from a distance. It is possible that ‘Ad were deceived by this appearance and did not notice the calamity. Doe gives a description of these sand storms (which seems to be from personal experience); “The first sign (of a dust or sandstorm) is an approaching wall of dust-laden air which may be several thousand feet in height lifted by the strong rising currents and stirred by a fairly strong wind.” (15)

Thought to be the remains of ‘Ad, “the Atlantis of the Sands, Ubar” has been recovered from under a layer of sand metres thick. It seems that the furious wind lasting for “seven nights and eight days” by the Qur’an’s description, accumulated tons of sand on top of the city and buried people under the earth alive. Excavations made in Ubar point to the same possibility. The French magazine, Ça M’Interesse states the same as follows “Ubar was buried under a sand of 12 meters thickness as a result of a storm”(16)

The most important evidence showing that ‘Ad were buried by a sand storm, is the word “ahqaf” used in the Qur’an to signify the location of ‘Ad. The description used in the 21st verse of Surat al-Ahqaf is as follows;

Mention (Hud) one of 'Ad's (own) brethren: Behold, he warned his people about the winding Sand-tracts: but there have been warners before him and after him: “Worship ye none other than Allah: Truly I fear for you the Penalty of a Mighty Day.”

Ahqaf means “sand dunes” in Arabic and it is the plural form of the word “hiqf” which means a “sand dune”. This shows that ‘Ad lived in a region full of “sand dunes”, which provided the most logical ground possible for the fact that they were buried by a sand storm. According to one interpretation, ahqaf lost its meaning of “sand hills” and became the name of the region in south Yemen where ‘Ad lived. This does not change the fact that the root of this word is sand dunes, but just shows that this word has since become peculiar to this area because of the abundant sand dunes in the region.



The region where ‘Ad lived was full of sand dunes.




As a consequence, it can be said that historical and archaeological finds indicate beyond reasonable that ‘Ad and the city of Iram must have existed and were destroyed as described in the Qur’an. By later researches, the remains of these people have been recovered from the sands.

What one should do in looking at those remains buried in the sands, is to take warning just as the Qur’an stresses. The Qur’an states that ‘Ad went astray of the right path because of their arrogance and said “Who is superior to us in strength?”. In the rest of the verse, it is said “What! did they not see that Allah, Who created them, was superior to them in strength?” (Surah Fussilat: 15)

What a person has to do is bear this unchangeable fact in mind all the time and understand that the greatest and the most honoured is always Allah and that one can only prosper by adoring Him.

http://observe.ivv.nasa.gov/nasa/exhibits/ubar/ubar_0.html
http://www.islamicity.com/Science/Ubar/

guess your argument is ailing right about now?

BTW-- why lay on the table such huge philosophical discussions that will need some biblical backing and research if you are busy with exams?
 
It's not entirely accurate, and not meant to be insulting, but they do have some similarities including, from my perspective, the fact that they were both false prophets.

I understand your perspective but find it to be kinda dismissive and narrow.
As if what they brought are even remotely comparable. As if their life story was comparable. As if they both received such wide acceptance from jews and christians. The list goes on but all you can say is "false prophets" which is very much sticking your fingers in your ears.

Qingu,

Muhammad is agreed upon by many historians to be the most influential person in history. More than Jesus, more than the great scientists or philosophers, anything. Smith wasnt mentioned at all by anyone ever.

Smith's followers and life story and hardships is nothing compared to the Prophet's. You seem content to equate a scrape with a gash and call it even.

Please reconsider your theory.
 
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Hmmm.... that is a good question..

Just as an addendum to the above:

the first 2 chapters of Galatians Paul claims to have received revelation from God (1:16) or Jesus (1:12) and he claims to be an apostle (read prophet) to the Gentiles while Peter was the apostle to the Jews (2:7-9).


:sunny:
cheers
 
Formed? I believe the universe is eternal. It never formed; it's always existed.

okay, so the planets were already present in their locations since eternity? that is what i mean when i mean 'formed'.


Why would you assume a chaotic universe?

Like the example of some bricks blowing up and causing a building. You've probably already heard this, and i don't really care if you say that 'the same forces werent present then'. Because either way, its not convincing.


Why would the fact that scientists are (currently) unable to simulate the conditions that produced life mean that life never arose on its own?

Tell me this, why is it that people should believe in abiogenesis although it hasn't been proved yet? Yet to believe in God without seeing Him has to be proven before believed?


As usual with religious people, your analysis is a dishonest caricature of how scientists actually think chemical evolution happened.

I can say alot of atheists are dishonest myself, generally from my experiences. But i won't.


What utter nonsense. Nobody is saying that amino acides all the sudden arranged itself into useful protein molecules—amino acids are assembled into proteins based on DNA codes. Your author is calculating the odds of something that nobody is saying would happen.

Why on earth do you think this is at all relevant to abiogenesis?

I understand the concept, instead of evading the whole point - lets just jump to the main point - is it easily possible for these amino acids to actually come into existence themselves?


National Geographic, another well-known scientific magazine, wrote as follows:

Many scientists now suspect that the early atmosphere was different from what Miller first supposed. They think it consisted of carbon dioxide and nitrogen rather than hydrogen, methane, and ammonia. That's bad news for chemists. When they try sparking carbon dioxide and nitrogen, they get a paltry (hardly any) amount of organic molecules.

"The Rise of Life on Earth," National Geographic, March 1998

Maybe scientists should actually prove it first, and then try to convince us.


Again, why on earth do you think this is relevant to abiogenesis? Amino acids don't arrange themselves.

Qatada, do you know how proteins are formed? I am not trying to be a jerk here; I will be glad to explain it to you (probably in another thread), and once you understand this mechanism of biology, then we can talk about how the DNA that encodes the protein might have arisen, how lipid membranes that enclose modern cells might have formed, etc—and you can make up your mind about the probability of this happening.

I'm studying the topic in genetics myself, so i'll learn it some time insha Allah. One thing i dislike about the points made are that it 'might' have happened one way or another, but it would be way more relevant to know what truly happened.


The Miller-Urey experiments had nothing to do with proteins forming. They had to do with the formation of simpler hydrocarbons, including amino acids (which make up proteins).

i know that :) thanks anyways.



"All of us?" Almost all biologists—whose job it is to study life—believe in chemical evolution or abiogenesis.

That was Miller's teacher talking, no disrespect, ayt? :p


And besides, since you (or your source) apparently don't even know how proteins form, you're not in a position to comment on the scholarship.

Again, I don't say this to be dismissive. The mechanism of protein formation is complicated and it's not something that average joes know about.


Exactly, and that's why i dont believe it happened merely by chance.


But for you to comment like this would be like me commenting on the Quran without having read the Quran.

But you do sometimes do that. Like the example of the Qur'an mentioning that the disbelievers called him a 'madman.' You never knew the context of it, but commented anyway.



You already know what I think, I'm an atheist (I think Muhammad, like every other prophet in history, was likely a power-hungry and/or self-deluded fraud, and his followers were gullible just like every other prophet's followers). But you don't care what I think.

Maybe i would care if you told me why you thought Prophet Muhammad was power hungry?


Joseph Smith's followers faced the same hardships as Muhammad's—they had to move away from their homes into the wilderness and many of them were killed. Why did they do it, Qatada? I think the answer is the same as for Muhammad's followers.

See Joseph Smith's followers. See Jesus' followers (who, unlike Muslims, thought he was the son of God)—many of them got killed or crucified for their beliefs. Followers of Hindu sects starve and torture themselves for years in devout asceticism. Modern cult members cut off all ties with their families and give all their money to "prophets." There is absolutely nothing unique about Muhammad's followers making sacrifices to follow him—this happens in every religious tradition, from Zoroaster to modern doomsday cults. So answer your own question for all of these other religions.

Some good points to answer my question, to an extent.

But again, did Joseph Smith's followers be the leaders for humanity and benefit mankind on the same level as the companions of Prophet Muhammad? If you know the depth of Islam and how it took the most backward of nations into the forefront of all fields of advances for more than a millenium - and still benefits its followers (who apply his teachings to their lives) today, wouldn't this be a sign of his Prophethood?

The most read book in the world since its time is the Qur'an, a book which supercedes all other books in its eloquence, rhetoric and language skills. Yet Muhammad (peace be upon him) who was illiterate was able to come up with this? And no-one, not even the most literatelly advanced people since over 1400years were able to supercede it?


The man who lived as an example all his life, for all people.
Ranging from a husband who fixed his own shoes in the house, to the leader of an entire kingdom.

Him being one who was an example for a; shepherd, father, husband, caller to the truth, social helper for the needy [based on the hilf al fudhul treaty to support the ones who had been wronged in Makkah], friend, businessman, head of state, commander in an army against injustice, servant of God, uniter and social reformer for humanity of all colours ("no white is better than black, no black is better than any white except based on your obedience to God." - his farewell sermon in Makkah at Hajj.)



Now tell me, what was Joseph smith like - who was he a role model for, and maybe you can share some of his teachings which benefited humanity on the same scale as Prophet Muhammad?




Actually China was pretty consistently more advanced than the Islamic Empire at the time....

At which time? Try reading up on the Tang dynasty, and how internal conflict led it to losing any force against Islam.


This is interesting too;

Islam in China;

http://www.load-islam.com/artical_det.php?artical_id=758&section=indepth&subsection=Islamic%20history



But I thought you said they sacrificed so much in this world. Getting cushy governorships of quasi-imperial states sounds pretty nice to me.

Yeh, and guess what? They only survived on 2 dirhams a day i.e. Salman al-Farsi became governor of Persia and had 2 dirhams for his food during 'Umars reign. Umar himself was Caliph over the whole of the Arabian Peninsula, Syria, and Persia. The latter two being fertile lands and lands of former superpowers. He himself lived in a mudhouse in Medinah - where he governed the whole Muslim world from with justice - till he died.



If Heaven's Gate's leader was false in his Prophecies about aliens coming to earth then why did his followers believe his claims and actually commit a mass suicide, thus achieving it?

I believe that this can be done by many (i've even read the psychological causes behind why they did this), but again - how did they benefit humanity through this act of theirs?

By the companions of Prophet Muhammad - they accepted the message because it made perfect sense, it came from the right man who they knew never lied in his life, and they benefitted through it and they benefitted others too. As can be seen through history.




I've explained what I think about Muhammad's true intentions. I'd like to hear what you think all these other prophets were up to. We can start with Joseph Smith. Why do you think Joseph Smith was a fraud?

You havn't explained at all, and since you believe you're on the truth - i want a satisfactory answer as to what Prophet Muhammad was after when he claimed to be the Messenger of God. Why did he go through this when he could get it all for free anyway? Instead of him and his companions being tortured for over 10 long hard years?




I'll quote you the event;

Long before there was any prospect of success for Islam and at the outset of a long and painful era of torture, suffering, and persecution of Muhammad
salla-1.jpg
and his followers,
he received an interesting offer:

An envoy of the pagan leaders, Otba (Utbah ibn Rabi'a), came to him saying, “...If you want money, we will collect enough money for you so that you will be the richest one of us. If you want leadership, we will take you as our leader and never decide on any matter without your approval. If you want a kingdom, we will crown you king over us...” Only one concession was required from Muhammad
salla-1.jpg
in return for that, to give up calling people to Islam and worshipping God alone without any partner. Wouldn’t this offer be tempting to one pursuing worldly benefit? Was Muhammad
salla-1.jpg
hesitant when the offer was made? Did he turn it down as a bargaining strategy leaving the door open for a better offer?



The following was his answer:

I am not after your money, and I do not seek a position or a crown.

God has made me His messenger and revealed to me a book and instructed me to give you a message of good tidings and a warning. I have conveyed God's message to you as best as I could and I have given you good counsel. If you accept it from me, it will be good for you in this life and in the life to come. If you turn it down, I will continue to preach it until God settles the issue between us.

And in another narration, he recited the following verses of Qur'an to him;

Surah Fussilat [41]:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=0pcsFeO-zpk [I really reccomend you to listen to and watch this, its only 5mins with english subs and the real Qur'an!] recited by sa'd al ghamdi


A revelation from (God), the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful; a Book whereof the verses are explained in detail; a Quran in Arabic, for people who know, giving good news and warning, yet most of them turn away, so they do not listen... (Quran, 41:2-4)


Utbah left quietly and went to his people, who realised as they saw him approaching tha a chance had come over him. They looked up at him curiously, listening to his words: "I have heard something the like of which I have never heard in my life. It is neither poetry nor sorcery. Take up the suggestion I am making to you, and lay the blame for the outcome at my door. Leave this man alone. What I have heard from him will certainly bring about great events. Should the rest of the Arabs kill him, you would have been spared the trouble. If he wins, whatever gory he achieves will be yours." They retorted: "He has certainly bewitched you." He said: "I have stated my opinion, and you can do as you wish."

[Utbah was known among them as a man of objective views, balanced temperament and moderate approach. But they still rejected his sincere advice to them, which did infact take effect later on in the near future.]

Ibn hisham, al Sirah an-Nabawiyyah Dar al Qalam, Beirut vol.1, p316


Further commenting on the issue;

When the Quraysh said to him that you can be our king, they were saying that he would be the king of arabia. But he rejected this offer.

When he died, he was the king of Arabia. Islam never had expanded politically to other parts of the world at this time.


The point being made is that he could have simply been king of Arabia without having to go through all this struggle, torture, defensive battles etc. And if he really was doing it for kingdom, he could have accepted this offer. But instead, when he died - he left all of Arabia in a state of true Islam.

This shows that his ambition was for Islam to be upheld, and not merely for the purpose of kingdom, or fame.


So i want some valid responses from you which others can atleast look at and say "hmm.." :rollseyes please.
 
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The life of Allah is different to human life, although it still is life.
Exactly, life is life - in various forms and without form.

Yeah, therefore you would blame God for any evil that occurred on earth right? And put no blame whatsoever on the doer of the action?

If that's the case, you don't think theres anything wrong with crimes such as stealing etc?


This is the EXACT reason Allah sent Messengers', so we had a clear distinction and agreement as to the difference between wrong and right, truth and falsehood. So mankind could unite upon that set truth and live at peace with one another.Peace.

If we cause evil, we are to be blamed. If Allah is the cause, He is to be blamed. As the Creator, if His product malfunctions, He is responsible. But if He is not the creator but the performer himself, the question of blame does not arise - He does what He wants.

Is there anything wrong with crimes such as stealing? We, in the form of humans, would certainly find such crimes unacceptable because we have built-up our society upon some values. But our values are not always black and white. We do tend often to consider motives and we might hail a Robin Hood for stealing.

There is no proof that Allah sent messengers to India or China - yet the people of these nations are not without values of right and wrong.
 
let me make your life easier about the lost cities too here we go

BTW-- why lay on the table such huge philosophical discussions that will need some biblical backing and research if you are busy with exams?

Whoa, whoa. I never said that Muhammed told stories of cities that couldn't be verified. I said that was one way he and Smith were different. I didn't even know that the Qu'ran had any mention of ancient cities that had been lost.

As to the last part, this debate isn't directly related to my thread-starting question, which was how to form a moral judgement of someone you already believe is a false prophet, I'm just doing my best to answer things that come up in the thread. The only reason I mentioned Joseph Smith initially is that being an American from a western state, he's the false prophet I know the most about.
 
I understand your perspective but find it to be kinda dismissive and narrow.
As if what they brought are even remotely comparable. As if their life story was comparable. As if they both received such wide acceptance from jews and christians. The list goes on but all you can say is "false prophets" which is very much sticking your fingers in your ears.

I just don't buy the argument that wider acceptance makes a thing more true, I mean, if you believed that you'd be a Christian, since there are more Christians than Muslims in the world. I'm not trying to be dismissive, I won't deny the good that has been done in the name of many religions, but that doesn't make them true.
 
If you have pre-formed judgment then what is the point of a debate? you have already made a conclusion without an intelligent thought?
Jesus was a middle easterner so no matter how you slice it whether a Calvinist or a Mennonite or smith, are all heretical and far strayed from the teachings of Jesus!

and actually there are more Muslims than Christians in the world if you do it by substance i.e the majority of Muslims 90% are sunni out of the 1.86 billion, whereas 50% of Christians consider Mormonism to be a sect of Christianity and yet is added to the tally!
 
If we cause evil, we are to be blamed. If Allah is the cause, He is to be blamed. As the Creator, if His product malfunctions, He is responsible. But if He is not the creator but the performer himself, the question of blame does not arise - He does what He wants.

You contradict yourself a great deal, merely because you say that humans and God are one, and then you say that each is separate in doing his actions.
 
I just don't buy the argument that wider acceptance makes a thing more true, I mean, if you believed that you'd be a Christian, since there are more Christians than Muslims in the world. I'm not trying to be dismissive, I won't deny the good that has been done in the name of many religions, but that doesn't make them true.

But then the question comes up, which christian? Sunni Islam is the largest religious denomination. As a whole there are more christians but when you see WHAT type of christians and which denominations, then... the largest single religious denomination is Sunni Islam.

By the way, what about the other points in my post? Their character, accomplishments, influence and miracles were clearly not of the same calibur.
 
But then the question comes up, which christian? Sunni Islam is the largest religious denomination.

True, but is it really equevalent to a Christian denomination? I mean, there is no official organizational structure for Sunni Islam, no Sunni Pope.
 
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