The True Message of Jesus Christ

[Hamza Asadullah]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

God is the one that said, "This my beloved Son..." God didn't say "begotten son" He said Beloved Son, and that we should listen to Jesus His Son. We do not call Jesus a partner of God; We call Him the Son of God; He is the author and finisher of our faith.

The son and the father. That is two Gods not one. If Jesus was the son then he must have a mother who is the mother of God (Mary). That is three Gods not one. There is no such thing as two or three in one. This illogical fallacy does not work. This is also the main reason why so many Christians are leaving your religion each day and even you know in the back of your mind that this just does not make any sense. How long will you ignore these doubts for? Surely they will continue to plague your mind. Open your mind and heart to the truth:

And they say, 'The All-merciful has taken unto Himself a son.' You have indeed advanced something hideous. The heavens are well nigh rent of it and the earth split asunder, and the mountains well nigh fall down crashing for that they have attributed to the All-merciful a son; and it behooves not the All-merciful to take a son. None is there in the heavens and earth but he comes to the All-merciful as a servant. (19:88-93)

People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the Truth. The Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three'. Refrain. better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Him — that He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth, God suffices for a guardian.

The Messiah will not disdain to be a servant of God, neither the angels who are close to Him. Whosoever disdains to serve Him and waxes proud. He will assuredly muster them to Him, all of them.

As for the believers, who do deeds of righteousness, He will pay them their rewards in full, and He will give them more, of His bounty; as for them who disdain and wax proud, them He will punish with a severe punishment, and they shall not find for them, apart from God, a friend or helper. (4:171-3)

 

[Burninglight]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

The son and the father. That is two Gods not one. If Jesus was the son then he must have a mother who is the mother of God (Mary).

Well, that is what the Catholics have done; they made Mary the mother of God, but that is not what the Bible teaches. What the Bible teaches is the way it is for us Christians.

That is three Gods not one. There is no such thing as two or three in one. This illogical fallacy does not work.

The Bible does not teach us there are three gods. It states that God is one. Jesus doesn't say "I am God worship me" but He does allude to His deity. The Bible states that Jesus is the Word of God. God's word is not His partner or another god any more than my word is my partner or two of me. The Bible states that God is Spirit, It also teaches us that God is Holy; therefore He is the Holy Spirit. He is one. The Lord our God is one. Why God has chosen to make His word and Holiness distinct persons I don't know or understand. No Christian knows the answer and they will look silly trying to explain just like it would be difficult for you to explain how God always was or how He never had a beginning or end or how he can see the past, present and the future at the same time. Athiest will same the same as you "This illogical fallacy does not work" but they would be wrong just as you are now, because what is not possible with man is possible with God.

 

[Amigo]

Everyone expect a father from every fellow man. In fact, everyone expect a father from every man than they expect arms/legs/head on every body. So everyone knows that son-father are more one than the body and its composing parts.
Catholic Faith is just more honest. Samething for motherhood. Everyone knows that mothers don't create, yet some people pretend that 'mother of God' means 'creator of God'. Again, a question of honesty.

 

[Predator]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

Well, that is what the Catholics have done; they made Mary the mother of God, but that is not what the Bible teaches. What the Bible teaches is the way it is for us Christians.
The Bible does not teach us there are three gods. It states that God is one. Jesus doesn't say "I am God worship me" but He does allude to His deity. The Bible states that Jesus is the Word of God. God's word is not His partner or another god any more than my word is my partner or two of me. The Bible states that God is Spirit, It also teaches us that God is Holy; therefore He is the Holy Spirit. He is one. The Lord our God is one. Why God has chosen to make His word and Holiness distinct persons I don't know or understand. No Christian knows the answer and they will look silly trying to explain just like it would be difficult for you to explain how God always was or how He never had a beginning or end or how he can see the past, present and the future at the same time. Athiest will same the same as you "This illogical fallacy does not work" but they would be wrong just as you are now, because what is not possible with man is possible with God.

Your bible says this:

John 17:3

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.


Notice how the Father is being referred to as THE ONLY TRUE GOD. Thus, we are required to restate the formulation of the Trinity as follows:


- The Father is the only true God.
- The Son is truly God.
- The Holy Spirit is truly God.


This is logically impossible. How is it possible for the Father to be the ONLY true God, while at the same time the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well?

If the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well, then it is false to say that the Father is the ONLY true God. Similarly, if we say that the Father is the ONLY true God then we can't say that anyone else (i.e. Son and Holy Spirit) is God as well.

It would also be ludicrous for someone to reformulate the Trinity as follows:

- The Father is the only true God.
- The Son is the only true God.
- The Holy Spirit is the only true God.


Since it would be necessary for atleast two of the above three statements to be false. It is not possible for any one of the persons (Father, Son or Holy Spirit) to be the ONLY true God at the same time when the other two are God as well.

Thus, in light of John 17:3 we see that the concept of Trinity is logically incoherent.

Sure, you Christians can redefine the Trinity in a way that it could be make sense, but the problem with this would be that their understanding of the Trinity is not scripturally based. It would only be the product of your human thoughts. However, in light of the Bible with it being authoritative to most Christians we can safely say that the Trinity is logically incoherent. It is not simply a matter of it being beyond our logic, but AGAINST our logic. If it is AGAINST our logic then that means that it is a false belief.

Muslims, thank Allah Almighty that you are blessed to be following a rational religion - ISLAM

 

[Burninglight]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

So in your eyes are Catholics deviants? Do you deem them as out of the fold of Christianity for their beliefs?

How much percentage of Christianity do "Biblical Christians" make up?

I was once Catholic. Of course Catholics are considered as part of the percentage of Christianity, but they have adopted a lot of paganism, and therefore corruption has snuck in, but they are trying to reform. I would say IMO, 40-50% of Christanity is made up Catholics and 30-40% protestant and 20-25% Christian cults. So I would say there is only 10% Biblical Christians that were like Jesus' disciples. Bascially true Christianity or Christians are way out numbered by true Muslims.

 

[Burninglight]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

This is logically impossible. How is it possible for the Father to be the ONLY true God, while at the same time the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well?

If the Son and Holy Spirit are God as well, then it is false to say that the Father is the ONLY true God. Similarly, if we say that the Father is the ONLY true God then we can't say that anyone else (i.e. Son and Holy Spirit) is God as well.

It would also be ludicrous for someone to reformulate the Trinity as follows:

- The Father is the only true God.
- The Son is the only true God.
- The Holy Spirit is the only true God.

Show me where it says that in the Bible. You can't; can you? You haven't heard me say that either. So, aren't you barking up the wrong tree addressing me with this comment? The Bible doesn't say Jesus is the father and the father is Jesus the Son. But the Bible does say God is Spirit; and since we all agree that God is Holy; we conclude that God is the Holy Spirit. That is only one God. Jesus, one can agrue is the only true word of God from a Biblical perspective. But no where does the Bible state there are 3 gods. Jesus said. "... the Lord our God is one." I will stick to that.

Please don't associate unto to me anything I haven't said or that is not explicitly written in the Bible concerning God. I don't know anything more than what is stated in the Script concerning this mystery. If you say the Bible explaination of God is not logical, well, I would agree, but nothing about God's deity is logical to me such as His power to know everything is not logical or to make a universe that has no end and to create life from dust and clay or light and fire. So please don't play the logic card with us Christians and try to see the Bible through our eyes like I am trying to see the Quran through yours to understand.

Evidence of who Jesus is is stated in His words!

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Tell us Burning light where Jesus "explicitly" states in the Bible that he is the son of God?

 

[Burninglight]

Tell us Burning light where Jesus "explicitly" states in the Bible that he is the son of God?

He does not! But God "explicitly" calls Him His son from heaven in an audible voice in front of witnesses and Jesus implicity states He is God's son. I hope that answers your question

 

[Burninglight]

I notice that my rep power is hurting. Oh, well, all my life I have never been popular

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Tell us Burning light where Jesus "explicitly" states in the Bible that he is the son of God?

He does not!

Thank you that has answered my question and you are absolutely correct GOD and Jesus do NOT state ANYWHERE that Jesus was the son of God. You accuse Catholics of that which you yourself are guilty of committing which is clear paganism. If such a concept was true then WHY has NO Prophet ever mentioned of it? Why would God never mention such a "fundamental" concept? Why would Jesus himself not mention such a thing?

The simple fact is that this "fundamental" concept has no basis and no proof in the Bible because it is just not mentioned ANYWHERE, so how can you blindly believe such a concept? Imagine if you took your case to court to try and prove such a concept, the judge and jury would laugh at you. There is no foundations for such a concept in the words of ANY Prophet, God or Jesus.

Open your eyes. How long will you be able to ignore this for? It will continue eating away at you. You only have one life. Then find the truth. Open your heart to Islam. Look into the Qur'an and you will find the light of truth therein.

 

[Burninglight]

Thank you that has answered my question and you are absolutely correct GOD and Jesus do NOT state ANYWHERE that Jesus was the son of God. You accuse Catholics of that which you yourself are guilty of committing which is clear paganism.

I am glad you agree, but did you read all of what I said? You seem to have missed the part where I said that God called Jesus His son explicitly.

The simple fact is that this "fundamental" concept has no basis and no proof in the Bible because it is just not mentioned ANYWHERE, so how can you blindly believe such a concept? Imagine if you took your case to court to try and prove such a concept, the judge and jury would laugh at you. There is no foundations for such a concept in the words of ANY Prophet, God or Jesus.

You need to go back and read what I wrote. I can back up what I said with Scriptures.

Open your eyes. How long will you be able to ignore this for? It will continue eating away at you. You only have none life. Then find the truth. Open your heart to Islam. Look into the Qur'an and you will find the light of truth therein.

I appreciate your zeal, but it is not according to Biblical knowledge

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

Jesus said. "... the Lord our God is one." I will stick to that.

So, according to this verse, jesus is not God.

am I correct?

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

I am glad you agree, but did you read all of what I said? You seem to have missed the part where I said that God called Jesus His son explicitly. You need to go back and read what I wrote. I can back up what I said with Scriptures.

Yes and in the Hebrew Bible, God called other prophets His sons too. This is because in the Hebrew tradition, this term was used in the metaphoric sense only. Therefore, literal translation of this term may have actually led to the misinterpretation of the reality of Jesus and other teachings in Christianity. According to many narrations, Jesus himself called himself a ‘son of man’ rather than ‘son of God’ (Bible, Luke 9:22) and rebuked those who called him so (Bible, Luke: 4:41).

I appreciate your zeal, but it is not according to Biblical knowledge

Nor is anything that you said backed up by the original teachings of Jesus and God himself. You do not have any solid foundations for your baseless assertions regarding Jesus being the son of God for BHebrew Scholars have confirmed that Jesus was only referred to as a Prophet. Even the Dideche confirmed this.

“And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, 'See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.'” (Revelation 19:10). - Proving he was a Prophet and NOT GOD!


How long will you continue trying to fool yourself? Clearly what you believe is not consistant with the teachings of Jesus or God but that of Paul. How will you continue to reconcile the fact that you know in the back of your mind that God cannot have a partner and this is confirmed by the EXPLICIT words of Jesus and God himself:

"And God spoke all these words, saying: 'I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me." (Exodus 20:1-3).

Deuteronomy chapter 6 verses 4 and 5:

"Hear, O Israel! the Lord our God, the Lord alone. You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength."

Matthew chapter 4 verse 10 it reads:

Jesus said to him:

"Go away Satan! for it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve only Him'."

Serve ONLY HIM, not serve his "alleged" son.


"But you shall destory their altars, break their sacred pillars, and cut down their wooden images (for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God)..." (Exodus 34:13-14).

This will keep eating away at you my friend until you accept the truth. Ho long will you keep denying the truth when it is staring you in the face?

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Reject Paul the liar for the Bible proves that you must reject such people who claimed to have dreamt of that which ascribes partners to God:

"If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods' - which you have not known - 'and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst. If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. So all Israel shall hear and fear, and not again do such wickedness as this among you." (Deuteronomy 13:1-11).

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

So, according to this verse, jesus is not God.

am I correct?

He has confirmed by his own words that Jesus CANNOT be God alongside God himself. There is no such thing as 2 in 1. How can such a thing exist when it is not supported by ANY teaching of any Prophet, nor was it ever taught by Jesus and nor was it ever taught by God.

 

[Burninglight]

Reject Paul the liar for the Bible proves that you must reject such people who claimed to have dreamt of that which ascribes partners to God:

"If there arises among you a prophet or a dreamer of dreams, and he gives you a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder comes to pass, of which he spoke to you, saying, 'Let us go after other gods' - which you have not known - 'and let us serve them,' you shall not listen to the words of that prophet or that dreamer of dreams, for the LORD your God is testing you to know whether you love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul. You shall walk after the LORD your God and fear Him, and keep His commandments and obey His voice; you shall serve Him and hold fast to Him. But that prophet or that dreamer of dreams shall be put to death, because he has spoken in order to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt and redeemed you from the house of bondage, to entice you from the way in which the LORD your God commanded you to walk. So you shall put away the evil from your midst. If your brother, the son of your mother, your son or your daughter, the wife of your bosom, or your friend who is as your own soul, secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and serve other gods,' which you have not known, neither you nor your fathers, of the gods of the people which are all around you, near to you or far off from you, from one end of the earth to the other end of the earth, you shall not consent to him or listen to him, nor shall your eye pity him, nor shall you spare him or conceal him; but you shall surely kill him; your hand shall be first against him to put him to death, and afterward the hand of all the people. And you shall stone him with stones until he dies, because he sought to entice you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. So all Israel shall hear and fear, and not again do such wickedness as this among you." (Deuteronomy 13:1-11).

I don't know if you realize this, but Christians respect Paul as much as Muslim do Muhammad. Paul does not say there is more than one God. He knows God is one!

 

[Burninglight]

Nor is anything that you said backed up by the original teachings of Jesus and God himself. You do not have any solid foundations for your baseless assertions regarding Jesus being the son of God for BHebrew Scholars have confirmed that Jesus was only referred to as a Prophet. Even the Dideche confirmed this.

“And I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, 'See that you do not do that! I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren who have the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.'” (Revelation 19:10). - Proving he was a Prophet and NOT GOD!

You quote that out of context. And the angel said[SUP][b][/SUP] to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.” [SUP]10[/SUP] Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant[SUP][c][/SUP] with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

It wasn't Jesus telling him not to worship Him; it was an angel. You won't find Jesus telling anyone that. In fact, he never stopped anyone that fell at his feet!

 

[Burninglight]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

good night

 

[Ramadhan]

I don't know if you realize this, but Christians respect Paul as much as Muslim do Muhammad.

Finally!

Muslims respect Muhammad (saw) because he was prophet of God, so now you are admitting that christians regard paul as a prophet.

Good!

we are starting from a good base.

Now, Paul taught these principles of christianity that was NEVER taught by Jesus (pbuh) or by ANY previous prophets (pbut):

Trinity
Salvation
Blood atonement
Baptism

So, are you trying to follow actual Jesus (pbuh) teaching which is to worship One God, forgiveness given by God without any price to pay, or are you following paul's teaching of a three-in-one god, salvation, god's blood to pay for human sins etc.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
The book of James was written for the trial of Paul at the church of Ephesus. the trail that Jesus spoke about in Revelation 2:2 where Paul was found to be a heretic and was expelled.

Paul also fails the testing of a true prophet of God found in Deuteronomy 13:1-10. Paul teaches people away from the need for "keeping God laws" any more.
Yeshua "Jesus" passes the testing of a true prophet of God found in Deuteronomy 13:1-10. Jesus primary ministry doctrine is for everyone to always keep the commandments of God. This is also a major theme throughout the Bible for everyone to always keep the commandments of God.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

You quote that out of context. And the angel said[SUP][b][/SUP] to me, “Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.” [SUP]10[/SUP] Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant[SUP][c][/SUP] with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

It wasn't Jesus telling him not to worship Him; it was an angel. You won't find Jesus telling anyone that. In fact, he never stopped anyone that fell at his feet!

I never said that particular statement was Jesus. But clearly he confirms tge testimony of Jesus to be that of Prophecy NOT that of a deity or partner of God.

Clearly Jesus DID stop others from worshipping other than God. Why are you sd o eager to worship a man who spent his whole life trying to stop others from.worshipping other than God?

Why have you chosen to ignore all the other verses in my post which prove that Jesus and God himself taught NEVER to ascribe partners with God but to ONLY worship ONE God?