The True Message of Jesus Christ

[MustafaMc]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

Faith should be based in some sort of reason... It seems to me that you're admitting to blindly believing in Christianity. If that's the case, then there's really no point in anyone pursuing discussion with you.

Peace

Assalamu alaikum, of course he continues to blindly believe in Christianity and the many false things about Islam and Muslims that he came here believing from the start despite many convincing arguments to the contrary. Though they have ears, they do not hear. Though they have eyes, they do not see.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

Of course there is a reason, but we don't put our faith in human reason. We put it in God. It is not logical that God cannot keep His word preserved in heaven forever like he promised in the Bible. Man's power to corrupt is not greater than God's power to preserve His word. Based on this reason, I have put all my faith in the Scripture that came before. I have faith that God is able to keep His word by preserving it! And that word speaks of Jesus being God's son who died and rose for the salvation of my soul. I have faith in that. If you call that blind faith and no point to discuss with me, that is your choice.

If you claim to want to put your faith in the words of God and Jesus then why do you put more faith and weight in the words and teachings of Paul than in the words and teachings of God and Jesus?

I asked you earlier on to prove that Jesus is the son of God in the "explicit" words of God and Jesus because if this is such a fundamental concept then surely Jesus and God would have mentioned it "just once at least". But you confirmed they havent! We ALL know they havent.

So why do you not put your trust in the words of God and Jesus like you have stated? Why do you disregard their words and teachings for that of Paul who NEVER even met Jesus. Your contradicting yourself. Trust in the words of God and DENOUNCE this utter blasphemy which you know is eating away at you deep down.

 

[Ramadhan]

What do you believe of what Jesus said in the Bible?

Please do not change the subject and turned it around.

If you have the truth as you claim, surely you can address all my points and questions.

 

[Burninglight]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

If you claim to want to put your faith in the words of God and Jesus then why do you put more faith and weight in the words and teachings of Paul than in the words and teachings of God and Jesus?

For me not to listen to Paul, that would be like you not listening to Muhammad. Doesn't the Quran say to obey Muhammad is to obey Allah? Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ"

I asked you earlier on to prove that Jesus is the son of God in the "explicit" words of God and Jesus because if this is such a fundamental concept then surely Jesus and God would have mentioned it "just once at least". But you confirmed they havent! We ALL know they havent.

I have quoted what God said in the Bible. In an audible voice, God said Jesus was His son. I gave you proof. Have you not heard, have you not seen, has it not enter your heart that God said, "This is my beloved son in whom I am well please; hear ye Him." Who do you think God was talking about if not Jesus? How much more explicit of a statement can there be?

So why do you not put your trust in the words of God and Jesus like you have stated? Why do you disregard their words and teachings for that of Paul who NEVER even met Jesus. Your contradicting yourself. Trust in the words of God and DENOUNCE this utter blasphemy which you know is eating away at you deep down.

I do listen to God, and I don't disregard the prophets words. Saul was confronted by Jesus on the road to Damacus when the Lord knocked Him off his high horse. Jesus said, "Why do you persecute me Saul?" Saul said, "Who are you Lord?" Jesus said, "I AM Jesus whom you persecute!" Well, maybe he didn't see Jesus, but he certainly heard and felt His power! Or he did see Jesus as a bright light that blinded him.

I have heard a testimony of a Muslim that had a similar experience as Paul, and he converted to Chrisitanity as a result. The last thing Paul wanted was to be a Chrisitan; that is what makes Paul's testimony so powerful.

 

[Burninglight]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

Assalamu alaikum, of course he continues to blindly believe in Christianity and the many false things about Islam and Muslims that he came here believing from the start despite many convincing arguments to the contrary. Though they have ears, they do not hear. Though they have eyes, they do not see.

What false things do I believe. Plz spell them out, because hopefully if I believed something false, and it had been proved to me as false; then, I don't believe that anymore. Why would I want to believe something false about Islam. If I wanted that, I wouldn't be here. You say I follow Christianity blindly. Well that sword is double edged and cuts both ways friend. And that verse you quoted is from the Bible, and i agree with it. Since you are quoting Scripture have you looked at Gal. 3: 1-10?

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

What false things do I believe. Plz spell them out, because hopefully if I believed something false,

Did you actually read what all of us have written here?

1. as br. MustafaMC said, you believe many false things about Islam and muslim and you keep on writing them, and I keep on refuting them with evidence.
Are you denying this now? I can copy and paste my previous posts and your previous posts you know.

2. Other members and I have given you countless biblical verses as well as simple logic and yet you choose to ignore. If you deny this, I can point you to many posts that I and others have made where you chose not to address many of the points.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

For me not to listen to Paul, that would be like you not listening to Muhammad. Doesn't the Quran say to obey Muhammad is to obey Allah? Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ"

God commanded us to obey Muhammad (saw)

Paul commanded you to obey him.

So, to you, Paul = God.

Did Jesus (pbuh) ever commanded you to obey Paul?

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

For me not to listen to Paul, that would be like you not listening to Muhammad. Doesn't the Quran say to obey Muhammad is to obey Allah? Paul said "follow me as I follow Christ"

God commanded us to follow the way of the Prophet (Peace be upon him). But can you quote for me where in the Bible God commanded you and Christians to follow Paul?

I have quoted what God said in the Bible. In an audible voice, God said Jesus was His son. I gave you proof. Have you not heard, have you not seen, has it not enter your heart that God said, "This is my beloved son in whom I am well please; hear ye Him." Who do you think God was talking about if not Jesus? How much more explicit of a statement can there be?

Proof? I asked you for the explicit words of God. DIRECT REVELATION. NOT from the words of random men who Biblical scholars even admit to not knowing for sure their true identities nor when they were writen. Take such false evidence to court and they would laugh at you.

Also let us look at how many sons God has in the Bible. Psalms 2:7 says "The Lord has said to me,you are my son, today I have begotten you".

Are we talking about Jesus Christ?

NO! We’re talking about David.

The doctrine of Jesus being begotten not made, is not just Jesus Christ was begotten not made, but he was the only Begotten son of God. How can you have Jesus Christ be the only begotten son of God when we have David many generations before being told he was the only begotten son of God?

The bible has sons by the tons. You forgot to mention that didnt you? MANY passages speak of the sons of Gods, and the children of God. Sons of God were known as metaphorical issues and not a literal one. But you seem to take Jesus being the son of God literally but not when others are called sons, daughteres and children of God. The Jews saw themselves as the children of God. Sons and daughters of God. That was the status they conceived for themselves. This was a metaphorical issue and not a literal one, so why is it ONLY literal with Jesus?

What about David the only begotten son of God? What about Jesus being the son of David? But i thought he was the son of God? No wait up there is now a conflict between David and God on who fathered Jesus. Come on you cant be serious!

I do listen to God, and I don't disregard the prophets words. Saul was confronted by Jesus on the road to Damacus when the Lord knocked Him off his high horse. Jesus said, "Why do you persecute me Saul?" Saul said, "Who are you Lord?" Jesus said, "I AM Jesus whom you persecute!" Well, maybe he didn't see Jesus, but he certainly heard and felt His power! Or he did see Jesus as a bright light that blinded him.


If you claim to listen to God then WHERE has he commanded you to obey Paul? Where has Jesus commanded you to obey Paul? Show us all please............

I have heard a testimony of a Muslim that had a similar experience as Paul, and he converted to Chrisitanity as a result. The last thing Paul wanted was to be a Chrisitan; that is what makes Paul's testimony so powerful.

Yes you may give me the testimony of one or two Muslims who have turned to Christianity i don't doubt that. But i can give you THOUSANDS of testimonys FROM Christians who accepted Islam. So let us not play the convert game because there is NO doubt that countless more Christians are denouncing their religion and accepting Islam than the other way around.

 

[Burninglight]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

So let us not play the convert game because there is NO doubt that countless more Christians are denouncing their religion and accepting Islam than the other way around.

It depends on what type of Christian they are

 

[Burninglight]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

Psalms 2:7 says "The Lord has said to me,you are my son, today I have begotten you".

Are we talking about Jesus Christ?

NO! We’re talking about David.

The doctrine of Jesus being begotten not made, is not just Jesus Christ was begotten not made, but he was the only Begotten son of God. How can you have Jesus Christ be the only begotten son of God when we have David many generations before being told he was the only begotten son of God?

The bible has sons by the tons.

It sound like you are quoting Deedat. Yes, Abraham has sons by the tons and so dose God., but Israel being the only begotten finds it fufillment in Jesus, but begotten might not be the best translation. Beloved son is better. God said of Jesus this is my bleoved son in whom I am well pleased. God said that of no other prophet; other prophets have fallen short of being prefect but not Jesus. He was the only one without sin. He was the only prefect lamb without spot or wringle.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

The bible has sons by the tons. You forgot to mention that didnt you? MANY passages speak of the sons of Gods, and the children of God. Sons of God were known as metaphorical issues and not a literal one. But you seem to take Jesus being the son of God literally but not when others are called sons, daughteres and children of God. The Jews saw themselves as the children of God. Sons and daughters of God. That was the status they conceived for themselves. This was a metaphorical issue and not a literal one, so why is it ONLY literal with Jesus?

Just like my argument about Muslims not being exclusively responsible for 9/11 and that Jesus taught forgiveness of sins not the doctrine of atonement made up by Paul and other founders of Christianity, this person is incapable or unwilling to seeing what we see. Of course we see the title, 'son of God' metaphorically and not literally. No Christian can explain to you in what sense of the word that Jesus was the 'Son of God' implying a difference from others being the 'sons of God' and that he was literally God with us. Contrast the Christian view toward Jesus who they see is the 'Word of God' and our view toward the Quran that we believe is the literal Word of Allah (swt). Even though we respect and honor the Quran as Allah's uncreated Word, neither I nor any Muslim who I know worships the Quran as 'Allah with us' along with Allah (swt).

 

[Burninglight]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

this person is incapable or unwilling to seeing what we see. Of course we see the title, 'son of God' metaphorically and not literally.

If you are referring to me, I do see perfectly how you see "son of God." I know that even Muslims leaders have no problems seeing Jesus as the son of God metaporically or in the general sense that all are son's of God. Please don't patronize me in the eyes of others. It is not that I am unwilling to see. I am not any more unwilling to see than a Muslims is unwilling to believe that Jesus died and rose again. So your comments are really unfair about "This person" If you were once a Christians in the true sense of the word, you should have known this.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

If you are referring to me, I do see perfectly how you see "son of God." I know that even Muslims leaders have no problems seeing Jesus as the son of God metaporically or in the general sense that all are son's of God. Please don't patronize me in the eyes of others. It is not that I am unwilling to see. I am not any more unwilling to see than a Muslims is unwilling to believe that Jesus died and rose again. So your comments are really unfair about "This person" If you were once a Christians in the true sense of the word, you should have known this.

You keep throwing lies in this forum.

please refer to my previous posts.

 

[Hamza Asadullah]

Re: “Evidence” for Jesus’ Divinity

If you are referring to me, I do see perfectly how you see "son of God." I know that even Muslims leaders have no problems seeing Jesus as the son of God metaporically or in the general sense that all are son's of God. Please don't patronize me in the eyes of others. It is not that I am unwilling to see. I am not any more unwilling to see than a Muslims is unwilling to believe that Jesus died and rose again. So your comments are really unfair about "This person" If you were once a Christians in the true sense of the word, you should have known this.

The difference is that our beliefs as Muslims are FULLY 100% backed up by the Qur'an which is 100% divine revelation DIRECTLY from God. Where as you "allege" that your beliefs are backed up by the Bible but how much of the Bible is 100% divine revelation directly from God? Certainly NOT the new Testament. The new testament according to its own translators and theologians, were:

Written by mysterious men.
Written by an unknown number of men.
Written in unknown places.
Written in unknown dates.

Paul never even met Jesus Christ in person while the latter was on earth. How could you trust a false account of his when he claimed that Jesus appeared to him while he was on his was to Damascus after the alleged "crucifixion" of whom you claim was God.

NONE of the disciples, even in the false writings attributed to them, ever claimed that their writings were inspired or Divine.

The Bible's own theologians even admit that the bible contains "fictions", its original manuscripts "had been lost", and contains "fairy tails and fables".

And, it is also an indisputable fact that the Bible:

Is filled with ample contradictions, man's alterations, corruption, and false scientific absurdities.

Is written in third-party narrations, which is why we find in all of the gospels' titles "This gospel according to....", and countless verses that speak about the disciples and about their activities in third-party narrations which proves that the books and gospels were certainly not written by them.

This also means that much gossips and exaggerations and fabrications were made up and inserted into the books and gospels. So even if, for instance, some people back then thought that Jesus was crucified, they in reality never actually saw it. It could very well be that they've only heard about it from a neighboring town and believed it. There are certainly in the books and gospels:

Too much gossips.

Too wide of date gaps by the decades between when the supposed event took place and when it was actually written, by hand, in the corrupt gospels.

Too many unknown people wrote the stories.

Too many Prophecies in the Old Testament that promise that Jesus Christ, the Messiah, will be saved from the crucifixion.

Too many mistranslations and desperate misinterpretations in Isaiah 53 and elsewhere.

This also means that the books and gospels were definitely NOT inspired by GOD Almighty. Paul, again, even admits that he had his delusions and doubts.

So now based on what objective grounds should we reject the claim about the Bible's New Testament's accounts being mostly false and fabricated by men? Take such evidence to court and they would laugh at you.

The fact is that the "fundamentals" of your faith are written in books which were written by mysterious men. Written by an unknown number of men. Written in unknown places. Written in unknown dates. How could God nor Jesus NEVER talk about the fundamentals?

Why would the fundamentals of your faith such as the divinity of Jesus, the trinity, the blood atonement of Christ and others not even be spoken about by God or Jesus even once?

How long will you remain in this state of deep sleep? When will you finally open your eyes to the truth?

I pray God leads you to the truth. Ameen

 

[Burninglight]

sigh
:exhausted