(The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide show

[Ramadhan]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

God is everywhere, even in the human nature. And human nature is in different realms: the corruptible world (this world), the world of the dead, and the incorruptible world. God is also in everyone of these realms. In this world, there is corruption, becaue the Sustainer is not sutaining our nature as He would like. He is not sustaining it because we are resisting him even chasing him out, which lead to complete chaos or death: this is illustrated by Jesus life, passion, and death. In the realm of the dead, the dead meet God, those who have died at peace with him, find life in Him, those who died in hostility with Him, He became Hell to them. In the realm of the incorruptible human nature, or of the resurrection. God is at perfect peace with the human nature. There men enjoy communion with God

I tried to discern what you wrote but I think I'm more confused. So is Jesus God or not?

 

[brmm]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

Jesus is God in the human nature, not in the 'whole creation' they way you seem to see it.

"2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 You must not have any other god but me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God"
Exod 20 Deu 05

 

[Amigo]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

"2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 You must not have any other god but me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God"
Exod 20 Deu 05

Correct. Thanks for highlighting those points.

 

[brmm]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

Correct. Thanks for highlighting those points.

You are welcomed.
At the end you agreed with me that God can not be in the form of Jesus or any thing else on this earth or any where else as it is written in the Bible, otherwise we need to assume that God have changed His mind to go with the old idea, and this can not be even an idea for a discussion.

BRMM

 

[Amigo]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

You are welcomed.
At the end you agreed with me that God can not be in the form of Jesus or any thing else on this earth or any where else as it is written in the Bible, otherwise we need to assume that God have changed His mind to go with the old idea, and this can not be even an idea for a discussion.

BRMM

I agree with the quote and the chapter and the book and the whole context it is written in. I agree with the message of God.
I did not agree your imaginings and wishful thinking or anything you are trying to put in my mind and heart.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

"2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
3 You must not have any other god but me.
4 You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God"
Exod 20 Deu 05

Brother brmm, I agree with you and I made a similar point in another communication that I am copying below:

Worship of other than the One God is a difficult thing to guard against. In Islam, this is known as shirk. I came from a Protestant family, but I had a great aunt that married a Catholic. I remember seeing in their home a crucifix, which is the cross with Jesus’ body portrayed, and a picture of Mary. In other Catholic homes there are Madonna figurines. This reminds me of the 10 Commandments specifically Deuteronomy 5:8 “You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.” I see that both the Crucifix and the Madonna are idols that are worshiped along with the Unseen God. Technically speaking the Holy Spirit is the 3rd part of the Trinity, but who really has any understanding of what the Holy Spirit is. Even the ‘Father’ aspect is to a large extent intangible except as the One God per the Lord’s Prayer, but one can somewhat wrap ones mind around the concepts of Jesus hanging on the cross as the means for redemption or the Virgin Mary as revered ‘the Mother of God’. Whether or not we see that Mary is part of the Trinity does not betray the fact she and Jesus are worshiped (taken as gods) along with the Father – the One God - the One that Jesus prayed to in the Garden of Gethsemane as his God.

Christians are blind to see that their worship of Jesus is contrary to the monotheistic view of our Creator as emphasized in both the OT and in the Quran. Though they have eyes, they do not see. Though they have ears, they do not hear. Though they have hearts, they do not understand that God is One and to say that Jesus is the Son of God elevates him to the status of being equal with the One God. If Allah (swt) guides them not, then they will not be guided to the Straight Way that leads to Eternal Life.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

Amigo, I am afraid you missed my query:

I tried to discern what you wrote but I think I'm more confused. So is Jesus God or not?

 

[Amigo]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

Amigo, I am afraid you missed my query:

I wonder what you are trying to pull out by asking questions you know already the answers I will give. Yes. He is.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

I wonder what you are trying to pull out by asking questions you know already the answers I will give. Yes. He is.

Right. sorry if I misunderstood your earlier points because they were hard to understand.
I am going to summarize what I gathered so far from your explanation: So when God died on the crucifixion, the creation was still in working order. This means the creation does not need God.
I think this is what christians belief, am I correct?

 

[brmm]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

Christians are blind to see that their worship of Jesus is contrary to the monotheistic view of our Creator as emphasized in both the OT and in the Quran. Though they have eyes, they do not see. Though they have ears, they do not hear. Though they have hearts, they do not understand that God is One and to say that Jesus is the Son of God elevates him to the status of being equal with the One God. If Allah (swt) guides them not, then they will not be guided to the Straight Way that leads to Eternal Life.

Brother Mustafa, Alhamdolillah that you are a Muslim now and you are defending Islam also.

I am trying to be patient because I believe that this is my duty as a Muslim and I can say that I have a kind of experience from my converted wife, so I have already different kind of Angelical and Jehovah witness relatives in my family now.

The most funny and non scene answers I receive from the Jehovah guys. I said to them for example, you do not have history, you have no existence before 1880 (or around) in Pennsylvania, everyone knows this fact, you do not have books before this date in any library in the world.
The answer for this is: true but we were there even though we have no history!
and even though they believe that God's name is Jehovah but they pray for Jesus and they thank him for every thing !

Hundreds or thousands of contradictions in the Bible according to Christian scholars, and still they consider it as the word of God, so their belief based on what the people have wrote/changed/edited/removed/selected/neglected from the original scripture which are not exist.
They know this fact and they know what does it mean, but they do not wish to believe the reasonable consequences of this fact: which is they are floating on the air because they do not have a saved book from God.

It is really amazing how they say God (astagfirollah) is foolish and weak in their book without any shamefulness.

Wasalam Alaikom
BRMM

 

[brmm]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

I agree with the quote and the chapter and the book and the whole context it is written in. I agree with the message of God.
I did not agree your imaginings and wishful thinking or anything you are trying to put in my mind and heart.

I knew this, but since you have said "correct" it means you have agreed. You are a clever person, so I am sure you understood what I meant with my quote, so why you have said so ?
And there was a question in my quote, I did not see any answer for it !
The question was: Did God change His mind after He said " CLEARLY" to everyone: Do not bow or worship any one in any form in any place on this earth, or in the heaven or in the water but Him ?
We have this order in the Quran also that we should not bow or worship any thing but Allah, but (as far as I know) there is no place in the Quran where Allah Sobhanaho have said "do not worship anyone in any form", to me: it is like God saying in the Torah for the Christian: Do not worship my messenger Jesus.

It is all about being proud and not about seeking the truth, this is our nature.

Q 82:06-08 "06 O you man! what has deluded you from your Lord, the Gracious one, 07 Who created you, then molded you, then proportioned you, 08 In whatever Form He wills, does He put you together"

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

Brother Mustafa, Alhamdolillah that you are a Muslim now and you are defending Islam also.

Yes, indeed, alhamdulillah. Brother, I cannot boast in being a Muslim for except for the guidance of Allah (swt) I would still be a Christian, too. There is a saying, "There but for the grace of God, so go I." This is one of the biggest questions that I have which is, "Why does Allah (swt) guide some, opening their hearts to Islam, and then leave others to stray in disbelief?"

Our duty as Muslims is not to guide anyone, but rather to share the Message of Islam with knowledge, the best of manners and with patience. As long as I live in the USA, my intentions are to share Islam with whoever will listen and to defend Islam and Muslims from the falsehoods that are being spread, particularly since 9/11.

 

[Eric H]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

Greetings and peace be with you MustafaMc;

We should worship the One God above all else, but there are false idols that we worship and they get in the way of putting God first in all things. If money, power lust, alcohol, pride, jealousy become more important than God in my life, then these are my false idols.

I do not regard praying in front of a cross or a statue as worshiping a false God, these man made icons help me to focus on their role in scripture.

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric

 

[Amigo]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

Yes, indeed, alhamdulillah. Brother, I cannot boast in being a Muslim for except for the guidance of Allah (swt) I would still be a Christian, too. There is a saying, "There but for the grace of God, so go I." This is one of the biggest questions that I have which is, "Why does Allah (swt) guide some, opening their hearts to Islam, and then leave others to stray in disbelief?"

Our duty as Muslims is not to guide anyone, but rather to share the Message of Islam with knowledge, the best of manners and with patience. As long as I live in the USA, my intentions are to share Islam with whoever will listen and to defend Islam and Muslims from the falsehoods that are being spread, particularly since 9/11.

What post 9/11 falsehood do you particularly have on mind and who is spreading them?

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

What post 9/11 falsehood do you particularly have on mind and who is spreading them?

Hi Amigo,
I am glad you are back. I had one question that you may have missed in between the flurry of recent posts:

Right. sorry if I misunderstood your earlier points because they were hard to understand. I am going to summarize what I gathered so far from your explanation: So when God died on the crucifixion, the creation was still in working order. This means the creation does not need God. I think this is what christians belief, am I correct?

Basically, what I was asking was, is this a christian belief that creation does not need God to exist?

 

[Amigo]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

Hi Amigo,
I am glad you are back. I had one question that you may have missed in between the flurry of recent posts:



Basically, what I was asking was, is this a christian belief that creation does not need God to exist?

And you said you checked out those youtube videos eh?!
Do you suppose I believe that you are sincere because you say so? I can tell sincerity and honesty.
Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

And you said you checked out those youtube videos eh?! Do you suppose I believe that you are sincere because you say so? I can tell sincerity and honesty. Actions speak louder than words.

I did check out those youtubes. Why are you accusing me of not being sincere? That's not very christian-like, is it not?
But I was still baffled by all those language and the explanations are very abstract. pardon my limited english for it is only my third or fourth language. So can you please confirm in a simple language that christians do not believe that the creation does not depend on God to exist?
Just treat me as an undereductaed simple person from Indonesia who knows nothing about christianity, so you may have to explain christianity creed in a language simple to understand and acceptable to basic common sense/logic, because that's all we have in common as human beings. Thank you.

 

[Amigo]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

I did check out those youtubes. Why are you accusing me of not being sincere? That's not very christian-like, is it not?
But I was still baffled by all those language and the explanations are very abstract. pardon my limited english for it is only my third or fourth language. So can you please confirm in a simple language that christians do not believe that the creation does not depend on God to exist?
Just treat me as an undereductaed simple person from Indonesia who knows nothing about christianity, so you may have to explain christianity creed in a language simple to understand and acceptable to basic common sense/logic, because that's all we have in common as human beings. Thank you.

My friend, when you ask complicated questions, you get compicated answers.
Complicated means exists for complicated people. Otherwise truth is most simple.
When a grown up person asks a 4 year old question, it can be assumed that they are not expecting a answer for a 4 year old...therefore the question could be complicated than it appears.

Well, for a simple answer:
Creation depends on God to exists.

 

[MustafaMc]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

Greetings and peace be with you MustafaMc;

We should worship the One God above all else, but there are false idols that we worship and they get in the way of putting God first in all things. If money, power lust, alcohol, pride, jealousy become more important than God in my life, then these are my false idols.

Yes, I agree that it is hard to keep our focus on worshiping the One God

I do not regard praying in front of a cross or a statue as worshiping a false God, these man made icons help me to focus on their role in scripture.

In the spirit of searching for God,

Eric

I can understand how these objects can serve to remember Jesus and Mary and their lives. Perhaps, these objects are not worshiped, but rather the lives that they represent. For example, worshiping Jesus as literally God within a human form as opposed to exclusive focus on the Father in worship. There is a fine line between respecting a person and worshiping him as God. I can't place my finger on the hadith, but I believe that Muhammad warned his followers to not be extreme in there respect for him as the Christians had done with Jesus.

 

[Ramadhan]

Re: (The Truth)(About Christianity,Jesus & Trinity)(130 pages)(DO NOT MISS IT!-Slide

My friend, when you ask complicated questions, you get compicated answers.

But my question is very simple, no? Does the creation depend on God to exist or not? Because you said God died, but creation did not perish, so this mean creation does not need god, right?
That's what I get from christianity belief.
Why does everything have to be made so complicated with christian theology?

Complicated means exists for complicated people. Otherwise truth is most simple.

When a grown up person asks a 4 year old question, it can be assumed that they are not expecting a answer for a 4 year old...therefore the question could be complicated than it appears.

Simple means and answers is understood by ALL people, whether they are simple or complicated, young or old.

Well, for a simple answer: Creation depends on God to exists.

Great, finally you give me straightforward answer.
Now, this statement of yours contradict your earlier statement that God died.
When God died for 2-3 days (? correct me if I'm wrong), creation did not perish, so this shows creation does not depend on God to exist.
You have two statements that contradict each other, and this is a fundamental problem, not just a superficial one.