The Truth about the Bible

[Born_Believer]

Greetings and peace be with you Born_Believer;



I keep saying that God is beyond my understanding, so I do not have a truthful answer to your question.



I believe the Qur'an is the correct revelation for you, and you should strive to be the best possible Muslim that you can be. In the same way, I believe the Bible is the correct revelation for me, and I should strive to be the best Catholic that I can be.

Is this a contradiction for God, that he should reveal conflicting truths? Again, I do not know.

But what I do know, is that God seems to have given me convincing proof that the Bible I read, is the Bible he wants me to live by. There is one Jesus Christ, so it does not make any sense to me that there are thousands of fragmented Christian denominations that follow his word. It seems mankind is too stupid to follow one message in the same way.



This is how we see things differently, the opening post was written by a Muslim and as a benefit to Muslims. It seemed to me as if it was written to try and discredit the Bible. When I read anything from the Qur'an, I try and search for the best possible meaning, I read it in the hope of being able to learn from it, I do not read it with the intention of finding any faults.

May you and those you love and care for be blessed, and be a blessing to others.

Eric

Eric I hope you do not mind me saying this but these are very wishy washy answers. You claim to believe in the father the son and the holy spirit, which is the trinity yet you then claim you do not understand God. If you do not understand God then you can neither accept nor reject the trinity. But in reality you are a christian who accepts the trinity and accepts Jesus' divinity.

So I still can't get to the bottom of what you believe, are you Christian or not, trinity or not?

You also then go onto believe that God has convinced you via the Bible...yet this is the same bible that can not get the number of days correct for when Jesus was buried and then resurrected. You believe that the Bible can be mistaken and thus God can make mistakes? How has the Bible convinced you that it is true?

And I assure you Eric, if you tried reading the Quran to find faults you would find none. When a Muslim or in fact, anyone with comprehension outside of Christianity reads the Bible, they find faults with it because they are right there in front of you. There are contradictions from chapter to chapter, book to book. On top of all that, every Christian scholar on the planet will admit that the Bible was written by men who were not alive during the time of Jesus PBUH or many, many years after that. So how can it then be "the word of God"?

I say this not to criticise but to try and enlighten you as you obviously seem like someone who has a deep care for God and faith and it is people like you who I pray are eventually guided to the truth. Hopefully this wakes up something inside you so that you can find the truth and forsake falsehood and shirk (attributing partners to Allah).

 

[azc]

Interesting thread: https://www.islamicboard.com/comparative-religion/21796-hidden-truth-bible.html

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Born_Believer;

I say this not to criticise but to try and enlighten you as you obviously seem like someone who has a deep care for God and faith and it is people like you who I pray are eventually guided to the truth. Hopefully this wakes up something inside you so that you can find the truth and forsake falsehood and shirk (attributing partners to Allah).

You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God. When I read your posts, I sense that you live your life as a Muslim, you will probably die a Muslim, and my prayers are that you will have eternal salvation because you are a good Muslim.

God is the God of all creation, and not just the God of Catholics, God is greater than the sum of all the religions of the world. And for you, his first name is Ar-Rahmaan. The Beneficent. He who wills goodness and mercy for all His creatures.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'

Eric

 

[talibilm]

I have read the Bible many times, and I believe it comes from God, that is as much as I want to say.



Allah chooses whom he wills, he could have created everyone as a Muslim, and given us all the Quran. But we are all created by the same God, and the same God hears all our prayers, despite our differences. I don't believe that God made a mistake when he made you a Muslim and me a Catholic. Do I really have to convert you to my Catholic faith? Or can there be a greater purpose for our seemingly diverse beliefs?

In the spirit of searching for a greater meaning of 'One God'

Eric

Bro Eric i used to think you were Muslim when i came new here since many of your post sounded like you were a Muslim but in the above quote let me give my unbiased view

As far as i know this world is a TEST FOR EVERYONE for a Muslim or a Non Muslim . everyone has to try & strive for the right path to Allah the Creator since some non muslims think it was not fair with them to have born as non muslims so they are doomed to hell. But I will say its not very easy enough even to the so born muslims to achieve the path to Jannah since Satan is will all of us & just having a Muslim name does not guarantee Paradise. So you see within muslims bashing and killing as per the Noble Quran that may land them in hell too so we are all under test. hadith like this will make you understand what do i mean how muslims are under test

Bukhari :: Book 9 :: Volume 88 :: Hadith 206
Narrated Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman:

The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about the good but I used to ask him about the evil lest I should be overtaken by them. So I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were living in ignorance and in an (extremely) worst atmosphere, then Allah brought to us this good (i.e., Islam); will there be any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I said, 'Will there be any good after that evil?" He replied, "Yes, but it will be tainted (not pure.)'' I asked, "What will be its taint?" He replied, "(There will be) some people who will guide others not according to my tradition? You will approve of some of their deeds and disapprove of some others." I asked, "Will there be any evil after that good?" He replied, "Yes, (there will be) some people calling at the gates of the (Hell) Fire, and whoever will respond to their call, will be thrown by them into the (Hell) Fire." I said, "O Allah s Apostle! Will you describe them to us?" He said, "They will be from our own people and will speak our language." I said, "What do you order me to do if such a state should take place in my life?" He said, "Stick to the group of Muslims and their Imam (ruler)." I said, "If there is neither a group of Muslims nor an Imam (ruler)?" He said, "Then turn away from all those sects even if you were to bite (eat) the roots of a tree till death overtakes you while you are in that state."


So we all have equal chances to enter paradise depending how much & which way we try. May be Allah made you a Christian so that just to test you do you stick to your ego & group unmindful of your Creator ? and you may have been bestowed with more than normal courage to switch to another religion than a born muslim (is having less courage etc) since the scales of Allah and his decision are precise which we will never able to understand completely nor Allah is Unfair.

Though a Non Muslim may feel he has peace but nothing but a trick of Satan to make one believe so and such a thinking also comes to a Muslim a feeling that he has done good enough so that he does not strive for the better '' ie The Right Path through the lat testament, the Noble Quran & sunnah - the path of the messenger .

 

[Born_Believer]

Greetings and peace be with you Born_Believer;



You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God. When I read your posts, I sense that you live your life as a Muslim, you will probably die a Muslim, and my prayers are that you will have eternal salvation because you are a good Muslim.

God is the God of all creation, and not just the God of Catholics, God is greater than the sum of all the religions of the world. And for you, his first name is Ar-Rahmaan. The Beneficent. He who wills goodness and mercy for all His creatures.

In the spirit of searching for a greatest meaning of 'One God'

Eric

That's all very good but you have once again ignored my questions. I get the feeling you don't want to answer them so I won't ask again because maybe the situation is uncomfortable for you.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Born_Believer;

So I still can't get to the bottom of what you believe, are you Christian or not, trinity or not?

You may have missed a previous reply of mine, but I believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the holy spirit, and I believe in both the divine and human nature of Jesus.

We both know the main differences between our faiths. But from my perception, the same God has given us both the opportunity of salvation, despite our human differences. If I should have salvation, it will not be through my efforts, I do not deserve salvation, rather it will be through the grace, mercy and forgiveness of our God. I have family and friends of many faiths and no faith, I pray that they may all have this same offer of salvation.

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric

 

[Born_Believer]

Greetings and peace be with you Born_Believer;



You may have missed a previous reply of mine, but I believe in God the Father, God the Son and God the holy spirit, and I believe in both the divine and human nature of Jesus.

We both know the main differences between our faiths. But from my perception, the same God has given us both the opportunity of salvation, despite our human differences. If I should have salvation, it will not be through my efforts, I do not deserve salvation, rather it will be through the grace, mercy and forgiveness of our God. I have family and friends of many faiths and no faith, I pray that they may all have this same offer of salvation.

In the spirit of praying to a just and merciful God.

Eric

So you believe in the trinity yet claim you will receive salvation from God. Why do you believe that? My God is the same as yours, or rather I know it is the same and yet you attribute partners to Him. God has said in the Quran there is no salvation for someone who ascribes partners to Him and refuses to change his ways.

So what I believe in is entirely different to you and your book, the Bible claims there is only salvation through believing in Jesus and his sacrifice (the crucifixion). So how can I be saved according to your religion?

I understand you are trying to be friendly but the reality is always the reality. If you truly want salvation, you must recognise God. You can not claim He has partners. All your deeds will be in vain. In fact, your own Bible claims that when Jesus returns he will tell those who claimed to do works in his name (i.e. profess his divinity without any proof) will be forsaken. Will Jesus not say, "Go away from me?"

So you're stuck and to recognsie the truth you must follow the Quran. It really is as simple as that, if we are talking of salvation that is. Inshallah Allah guide you to the true path of Islam.

 

[sister herb]

I think that to our brother Eric H. the God hasn´t separate partners but to us it looks like He has. There is some difference how we understand this "partner thing".

Just my opinion as this thread seems to go repeating the same thing (again just my opinion). To those of us whose are reverts from the Christianity it might be easier to understand how Christians see this "partner thing".

 

[Born_Believer]

I think that to our brother Eric H. the God hasn´t separate partners but to us it looks like He has. There is some difference how we understand this "partner thing".

Just my opinion as this thread seems to go repeating the same thing (again just my opinion). To those of us whose are reverts from the Christianity it might be easier to understand how Christians see this "partner thing".

I know how Christians see it and I assume it's one of the reasons you left Christianity: it doesn't make any sense.

It's all wishy-washy, Christians will say, "God is One, we are monotheists...but there are also 2 other version of Him but they aren't separate, they are the same". That makes zero logical sense and it's why Eric and other Christians have such a difficult time trying to explain it...it can't be explained.

I'm still amazed when I meet Christians that are truly embedded in their faith, it is remarkable that they allow their intellect to be taken for such a ride. It's why I said I pray that if Eric is sincere in reading the Quran and believing in the one true god then he is rightly guided.

 

[goodwill]

Bismillaahir Rahmaanir Raheem
As-Salaamu ‘alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatuhu
I recently read a book, The Truth about the Bible. In that book, the Bible has been exposed. This book is so good that if anyone reads it, he can defeat any Christian or Jew scholar in religious discussion or debate. Every Muslim, especially those who meet Christians and Jews regularly, should read this book and should gift it to their Christian and Jew friends. This book has the following Topics:
An Introduction to the Bible
The Concept of God in the Bible
The Prophets according to the Bible
Incest in the Bible
Pornography in the Bible
Alcohol Addiction in the Bible
The Concept of Slavery in the Bible
The Concept of Polygamy in the Bible
Violence in the Bible
The Status of Woman
Contradictions and Errors in the Bible
The Prophecies about Prophet Muhammed (s.a.w.s.) in the Bible
You can see the details about the Book here: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/690285
Please let me know in comments if this post is useful for you.
Was- Salaamu ‘alaikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakaatuhu

Here’s the thing. If the Bible is bad, why does the Quran consistently teach that the Bible is good? Surahs 2, 3, 5, 10, and 16 especially.

Polemics aside, sincere wishes for a happy and healthy new year to all of you!

 

[Born_Believer]

Here’s the thing. If the Bible is bad, why does the Quran consistently teach that the Bible is good? Surahs 2, 3, 5, 10, and 16 especially.

Polemics aside, sincere wishes for a happy and healthy new year to all of you!

At no point does Allah in the Quran or the Prophet PBUH in his speeches and dialogues with the people ever claim that the Bible should be followed by Muslims. However, we as muslims believe that the Bible, much like the Psalms were revealed scriptures to a particular prophet, for a particular time and to a particular people. As time wore on, these scriptures were changed to where we now find the corruption of allegations of incest against Prophets for instance or the story of the crucifixion and the idea of multiple Gods.

Even your own Christian scholars admit the Bible has been changed numerous times so it's not a question simply of good or bad but rather a question of true and untrue. Why would you follow a false book when Allah has provided you with something better?

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Born_Believer;

Why would you follow a false book when Allah has provided you with something better?

Allah has provided you with the Quran, and he has given us the Bible, we strive to live in peace with our differences.

This will probably be my last post on this thread.

Blessings,

Eric

 

[goodwill]

At no point does Allah in the Quran or the Prophet PBUH in his speeches and dialogues with the people ever claim that the Bible should be followed by Muslims. However, we as muslims believe that the Bible, much like the Psalms were revealed scriptures to a particular prophet, for a particular time and to a particular people. As time wore on, these scriptures were changed to where we now find the corruption of allegations of incest against Prophets for instance or the story of the crucifixion and the idea of multiple Gods.

Even your own Christian scholars admit the Bible has been changed numerous times so it's not a question simply of good or bad but rather a question of true and untrue. Why would you follow a false book when Allah has provided you with something better?

Actually, the Quran says that Muslims should believe the Bible too. I’ll include the verses for that below. The available evidence, which is abundant, shows that the Bible has been preserved and that its message for mankind has not been lost. Besides, when did Christians ever deliberately change the Bible, and why would they do that? Christians esteem the Holy Scriptures above all other books. More importantly, God is faithful and preserves His word. Why should we believe that God would let His books be falsified by man? Are men stronger than God? Can men defeat God’s purposes? Even the Quran says that man cannot change God’s words. Frederic Kenyon of the British Museum’s Department of Manuscripts wrote, “It cannot be too strongly asserted that in substance the text of the Bible is certain.” Here then, to be more specific, is at least part of what the Quran teaches about the preservation of the Bible:


The Quran confirms the Bible that existed in Muhammad’s time. Surah 2:87,89,91,97,101; 21:105; 40:53,54.
The Quran teaches that the Bible was preserved up until the time of Muhammad. Surah 2:106.
The Quran teaches that Muslims must believe the Bible too. Surah 2:136; 3:84.
The Quran teaches that the Bible was given as guidance for all “mankind” and not for the Jews only. Surah 3:3,4.
The Quran teaches that the Bible contains guidance and light and that Jews and Christians should judge by the Bible. Surah 5:43-47;21:48
The Quran teaches that Christians should listen to the Bible and “stand firmly by the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you [Christians] from your Lord.” Surah 5:68
The Quran teaches that no one can change God’s words. Surah 6:114,115; 18:27.
The Quran claims that Muhammad is mentioned in the Bible. Surah 7:157. Although Muhammad per se is not mentioned in the Bible, this verse clearly presupposes that the Bible’s message has been preserved.
The Quran says that if Muhammad doubts Islam, he should consult with Christians who read the Bible, “the Book before you [Muhammad].” Surah 10:94.
The Quran teaches that, if Muhammad does not know something, Muhammad should ask Christians, “the people of the Reminder” prior to Muhammad. Surah 16:43; 21:7.
The Quran teaches that God supported the believing Christians and that they became dominant over the unbelieving Jews. Surah 61:14. Historically, the only Christians who “became dominant” were those who affirmed the death and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah and who affirmed the Bible we have today.

 

[Born_Believer]

Actually, the Quran says that Muslims should believe the Bible too. I’ll include the verses for that below. The available evidence, which is abundant, shows that the Bible has been preserved and that its message for mankind has not been lost. Besides, when did Christians ever deliberately change the Bible, and why would they do that? Christians esteem the Holy Scriptures above all other books. More importantly, God is faithful and preserves His word. Why should we believe that God would let His books be falsified by man? Are men stronger than God? Can men defeat God’s purposes? Even the Quran says that man cannot change God’s words. Frederic Kenyon of the British Museum’s Department of Manuscripts wrote, “It cannot be too strongly asserted that in substance the text of the Bible is certain.” Here then, to be more specific, is at least part of what the Quran teaches about the preservation of the Bible:


The Quran confirms the Bible that existed in Muhammad’s time. Surah 2:87,89,91,97,101; 21:105; 40:53,54.
The Quran teaches that the Bible was preserved up until the time of Muhammad. Surah 2:106.
The Quran teaches that Muslims must believe the Bible too. Surah 2:136; 3:84.
The Quran teaches that the Bible was given as guidance for all “mankind” and not for the Jews only. Surah 3:3,4.
The Quran teaches that the Bible contains guidance and light and that Jews and Christians should judge by the Bible. Surah 5:43-47;21:48
The Quran teaches that Christians should listen to the Bible and “stand firmly by the Torah, the Gospel, and what has been revealed to you [Christians] from your Lord.” Surah 5:68
The Quran teaches that no one can change God’s words. Surah 6:114,115; 18:27.
The Quran claims that Muhammad is mentioned in the Bible. Surah 7:157. Although Muhammad per se is not mentioned in the Bible, this verse clearly presupposes that the Bible’s message has been preserved.
The Quran says that if Muhammad doubts Islam, he should consult with Christians who read the Bible, “the Book before you [Muhammad].” Surah 10:94.
The Quran teaches that, if Muhammad does not know something, Muhammad should ask Christians, “the people of the Reminder” prior to Muhammad. Surah 16:43; 21:7.
The Quran teaches that God supported the believing Christians and that they became dominant over the unbelieving Jews. Surah 61:14. Historically, the only Christians who “became dominant” were those who affirmed the death and resurrection of Jesus the Messiah and who affirmed the Bible we have today.

See, this is the sort of stuff I don't like. You have either been mislead or you are trying your best to lie your way through this because if you had really read up on the verses you mentioned then you would fully understand their context, the explanation of the Prophet PBUH himself and the explanations of Islamic scholars. The fact that you even mention the Prophet PBUH doubting Islam is ridiculous.

But all of that is besides the point, Christian scholars have themselves said the Bible has been changed numerous times and that none of the revelation is actually from the time of Jesus himself.

And considering you care so much about what the Quran and Prophet Muhammad PBUH have to say then let's do what they did with the Christians who tried similar arguments during his time: you bring yourself and your loved ones and I will do the same and we invoke the curse of Allah on those who are false.

If you invoke the Bible as being the true word of God then you should have no problem with that I assume.

 

[Born_Believer]

Greetings and peace be with you Born_Believer;



Allah has provided you with the Quran, and he has given us the Bible, we strive to live in peace with our differences.

This will probably be my last post on this thread.

Blessings,

Eric

We can live in peace with our differences but that does not mean that both can be correct. You've told me no less than 6 or 7 times that you are striving in the way of God. You can't do that by claiming that God is both One and three. It doesn't work that way. You have to meet the correct criteria. You can either choose to work towards that or ignore it.

 

[goodwill]

See, this is the sort of stuff I don't like. You have either been mislead or you are trying your best to lie your way through this because if you had really read up on the verses you mentioned then you would fully understand their context, the explanation of the Prophet PBUH himself and the explanations of Islamic scholars. The fact that you even mention the Prophet PBUH doubting Islam is ridiculous.

But all of that is besides the point, Christian scholars have themselves said the Bible has been changed numerous times and that none of the revelation is actually from the time of Jesus himself.

And considering you care so much about what the Quran and Prophet Muhammad PBUH have to say then let's do what they did with the Christians who tried similar arguments during his time: you bring yourself and your loved ones and I will do the same and we invoke the curse of Allah on those who are false.

If you invoke the Bible as being the true word of God then you should have no problem with that I assume.

You claim that the Bible was changed numerous times. So please give a specific example by a Christian scholar, explain when, how, and by whom the Bible was changed, and also provide the original text that was changed, so that we can compare the original text with the later text and then see exactly what, if anything, was changed.


If you think I’m misled or lying, just read the verses for yourself. Surah 10:94 says: “So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you [i.e., Jews and Christians].” https://quran.com/10/94-104


Your proposal to call down a curse illustrates the stark difference between your beliefs and mine. We are commanded by the Lord Jesus: “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you” (Matthew 5). And the apostle Paul exhorts similarly: “Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not” (Romans 12). And James says that the mouth should speak only blessings: “From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water” (James 3). May God bless you with the knowledge of His truth, love, and benevolence.

 

[Born_Believer]

You claim that the Bible was changed numerous times. So please give a specific example by a Christian scholar, explain when, how, and by whom the Bible was changed, and also provide the original text that was changed, so that we can compare the original text with the later text and then see exactly what, if anything, was changed.


If you think I’m misled or lying, just read the verses for yourself. Surah 10:94 says: “So if you are in doubt, [O Muhammad], about that which We have revealed to you, then ask those who have been reading the Scripture before you [i.e., Jews and Christians].” https://quran.com/10/94-104


Your proposal to call down a curse illustrates the stark difference between your beliefs and mine. We are commanded by the Lord Jesus: “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you” (Matthew 5). And the apostle Paul exhorts similarly: “Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not” (Romans 12). And James says that the mouth should speak only blessings: “From the same mouth come blessing and cursing. My brothers, these things ought not to be so. Does a spring pour forth from the same opening both fresh and salt water? Can a fig tree, my brothers, bear olives, or a grapevine produce figs? Neither can a salt pond yield fresh water” (James 3). May God bless you with the knowledge of His truth, love, and benevolence.

Why should I post any evidence when you routinely ignore them anyway? And if you claim you haven't come across such scholars then you are living in a fairy land and I can't help you there.

That is a claim made without any understanding of the context of the revelation and what it means. Again, if you are posting such things then you have clearly spent some time researching it, meaning you are purposefully ignoring the correct explanation of the verse. Again, like I said, you are being dishonest.

Finally, Christians, in the name of their religion have carried out more global atrocities than any other group on this planet so you can keep your "love thy enemy" verses to yourself.

Also, like the Prophet PBUH was commanded, what I quoted is for those Christians and other believers who purposefully try to mislead so it was a public challenge, which no non-Muslim would take up because they (like you) know in their heart of hearts they are in the wrong. You odn't have the conviction to stand by your faith to such a challenge from Allah. Do with that what you will.

 

[goodwill]

Why should I post any evidence when you routinely ignore them anyway? And if you claim you haven't come across such scholars then you are living in a fairy land and I can't help you there.

That is a claim made without any understanding of the context of the revelation and what it means. Again, if you are posting such things then you have clearly spent some time researching it, meaning you are purposefully ignoring the correct explanation of the verse. Again, like I said, you are being dishonest.

Finally, Christians, in the name of their religion have carried out more global atrocities than any other group on this planet so you can keep your "love thy enemy" verses to yourself.

Also, like the Prophet PBUH was commanded, what I quoted is for those Christians and other believers who purposefully try to mislead so it was a public challenge, which no non-Muslim would take up because they (like you) know in their heart of hearts they are in the wrong. You odn't have the conviction to stand by your faith to such a challenge from Allah. Do with that what you will.

What evidence have I “routinely ignored”? No one has brought forth any specific evidence that the Bible was deliberately corrupted and its message consequently lost. Regarding the scholars I have come across, one of them is Abdullah Saeed, Sultan of Oman professor of Arab and Islamic Studies at the University of Melbourne. In an article entitled, The Charge of Distortion of Jewish and Christian Scriptures, “Saeed notes that the Jewish and Christian scriptures that exist today are, according to most scholars, largely unchanged since the time of Muhammad and should be respected now as they were then.” http://www.abdullahsaeed.org/article/charge-distortion-jewish-and-christian-scriptures
As I implied in post #33, Saeed points out in his article that “In no verse in the Qur’an is there a denigrating remark about the scriptures of the Jews and Christians. Instead, there is respect and reverence….These and many other verses which similarly revere the ‘Book of God’ (Tawrat or Injīl), as given to Jews and Christians, led scholars like Ibn Taymiyya to consider unwarranted the wholesale rejection by Muslims of the Christian and Jewish scriptures.”
http://quranandinjil.org/sites/defa...h-and-Christian-Scriptures_Abdullah Saeed.pdf