Things in common between Muslims and Christians

[Woodrow]

I thought this was supposed to be about the similarities between muslims and christians?

Quite true. I accept the guilt here. However, I could not think of a more appropriate way to answer what an athiest sees as similarities between Muslims and Christians. It was easier to show that those were common traits among people and not limited to Muslim/Christian

 

[Sunnih]

Both are pre-Medieval superstitions.

And they both agree that you are extremely missguided and astray.

 

[Sunnih]

Well, sorry to douse the merriment, but there a host of more serious similarities:

• Both “believe” more strongly than relevant evidence warrants
• Both “believe” what they want to believe, in spite of evidence
• Both wallow in the delusion that they’ll live forever
• Both display less scientific competence than children
• Both cling to their “holy books” like children cling to comic books
• Both accept ideas about “the supernatural” when no data supports such speculations
• Both have the astounding arrogance to assume that some supernatural entity (which they claim created this universe) has any concern for ant-like humans
• Both now laugh at those of us who say “Show me the data” – whereas, in the past,
• Both murdered thousands if not millions of us who said to the believers “Get real!”
• Both put up huge blockades that inhibit progress toward solving the many real problems of the world, and
• Both are destined for oblivion – the sooner, the better.

And both claim that the ignorance of those who do not believe in God can only be measured by their arrogance.

 

[Sunnih]

I thought this was supposed to be about the similarities between muslims and christians?

It is, my brother. Don't you see that both are hated by pagans?

 

[zoro]

Philosopher:

Do you have any idea what “pagans” and “atheists” they’re referring to?

“Rude” I can identify. Have a look at her personal attacks at http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...ve-what-you-do-how-did-you-get-belief-13.html . I wonder what ever happened to the forum rule:

Beef will not be tolerated in any forum. Differences in opinion are expected, but please debate respectfully. (Beefs are comments made for the purpose of insulting somebody else with negative intent, looking for a negative reaction, or blatantly insulting somebody) 15-25% warning

I wonder if there’s a rule against posting people’s pictures! And then the funniest thing happens: whenever she finally sees that she’s losing an argument (and I haven’t seen her win one yet!), she suggests that the thread be closed – and they close it!

As for “hate”, I gotta admit that I’m really getting to hate not so much ignorance as refusal to learn. Therein lies true “arrogance”. And the combination of ignorance and arrogance is something else: as you no doubt know, it’s called “the criminal arrogance of religion.” Unfortunately, though, this “crime against humanity” is still “just” an intellectual crime.

To me, it’s amazing how well Sam Harris described it in his book “The End of Faith” (with these quotes available at www.samharris.org/ )

“It seems that if our species ever eradicates itself through war, it will not be because it was written in the stars but because it was written in our books; it is what we do with words like “God” and “paradise” and “sin” in the present that will determine our future.” [p.12]

“Our technical advances in the art of war have finally rendered our religious differences – and hence our religious beliefs – antithetical to our survival. We can no longer ignore the fact that billions of our neighbors believe in the metaphysics of martyrdom, or in the literal truth of the book of Revelation, or any of the other fantastical notions that have lurked in the minds of the faithful for millennia – because our neighbors are now armed with chemical, biological, and nuclear weapons. There is no doubt that these developments mark the terminal phase of our credulity. Words like “God” and “Allah” must go the way of “Apollo” and “Baal,” or they will unmake our world.” [p.13]

“Tell a devout Christian that his wife is cheating on him, or that frozen yogurt can make a man invisible, and he is likely to require as much evidence as anyone else, and to be persuaded only to the extent that you give it. Tell him that the book he keeps by his bed was written by an invisible deity who will punish him with fire for eternity if he fails to accept its every incredible claim about the universe, and he seems to require no evidence whatsoever.” [p.19]

“Our world is fast succumbing to the activities of men and women who would stake the future of our species on beliefs that should not survive an elementary school education. That so many of us are still dying on account of ancient myths is as bewildering as it is horrible, and our own attachment to these myths, whether moderate or extreme, has kept us silent in the face of developments that could ultimately destroy us. Indeed, religion is as much a living spring of violence today as it was at any time in the past.” [p.25]

“We live in an age in which most people believe that mere words – ‘Jesus,’ ‘Allah,’ ‘Ram’ – can mean the difference between eternal torment and bliss everlasting. Considering the stakes here, it is not surprising that many of us occasionally find it necessary to murder other human beings for using the wrong magic words, or the right ones for the wrong reasons. How can any person presume to know that this is the way the universe works? Because it says so in our holy books. How do we know that our holy books are free from error? Because the books themselves say so. Epistemological black holes of this sort are fast draining the light from our world.” [p.35]

And though I admit to becoming despondent that we’ll ever be able to help them out of the “epistemological black holes” in which their arrogant ignorance has trapped them, yet I find renewed hope in how Isaac Asimov replied to the question why he fights religion with no hope of victory:

Because we must. Because we have the call. Because it is nobler to fight for rationality without winning than to give up in the face of continued defeats. Because whatever true progress humanity makes is through the rationality of the occasional individual and because any one individual we may win for the cause may do more for humanity than a hundred thousand who hug superstition to their breasts.

So, “bottoms up” and “good cheer” to the one in a hundred thousand!

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Sunnih;

Thank you for starting this thread and we do need to listen to each other more

We agree on good qualities like justice, peace, tolerance, understanding, love, mercy and forgiveness, now we just have to learn how to share these gifts with each other.

And to our agnostic and atheist friends on this forum, how can we find things in common with you also?

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[Malaikah]

Both are pre-Medieval superstitions.

Both believe Atheists are destined to Hell. :rollseyes

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you Malaikah;

Both believe Atheists are destined to Hell. :rollseyes

In fairness some Muslims believe that Christians will go to hell, and some Christians believe that Muslims will go to hell.

If we are to seek what is just and right then it must be just and right for all people, not just select people of one faith group.

I have family and friends of many faiths and no faith, just learning from history it is very unlikely that they will change their beliefs to my faith. I pray that a loving and merciful God can give them salvation also.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[zoro]

Eric H.

We agree on good qualities like justice, peace, tolerance, understanding, love, mercy and forgiveness, now we just have to learn how to share these gifts with each other.

And to our agnostic and atheist friends on this forum, how can we find things in common with you also?

Very well said! But then, there’s no need to search to “find things in common”: as near as I can assure you of anything, I assure you that all humanists share those “good qualities” that you listed – I’d even call them quintessential “humanist attributes”!

But what moves some of us to object to “supernatural stuff” is when such (nonsense) is used as the basis for taking other people’s lands (e.g., in Palestine), inhibiting scientific understanding (e.g., in the U.S.), and killing innocent people (e.g., suicide bombers). That’s when we start hollering: “Hey, wait a minute; enough's enough. What evidence supports your 'beliefs'? And if none, then how about smartening up?!"

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you zoro;

I assure you that all humanists share those “good qualities” that you listed – I’d even call them quintessential “humanist attributes”!

I would say that most humanists recognise these quintessential attributes but practicing what we preach tends to make us all hypocrites.

If humanists share this need for justice, mercy, love, forgiveness, tolerance and understanding then they should seek it not only for their own kind but for people of other beliefs, like Muslims, Christians, Hindu, etc.

But what moves some of us to object to “supernatural stuff” is when such (nonsense) is used as the basis for taking other people’s lands (e.g., in Palestine),

Supernatural stuff has nothing to do with man’s problems, our problems are being self centred, striving for power, wealth, greed and lust.

inhibiting scientific understanding (e.g., in the U.S.)

But how is scientific understanding going to overcome man’s desire for power, wealth greed and lust?

, and killing innocent people (e.g., suicide bombers). That’s when we start hollering: “Hey, wait a minute; enough's enough. What evidence supports your 'beliefs'? And if none, then how about smartening up?!"

The Christian inquisitions were absolutely wrong but where did Christ say that we should torture people into believing. It was very sick and sadistic people trying to justify their need for sadism through very warped logic that led people to do these evil things.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[barney]

Both beleive in Gabrial and the angels, Demons, heaven, hell, , good deeds being rewarded in the afterlife, disbeleif resulting in punishment.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you zoro, it sounds as if you have had some confrontations with theists in the past. But I don’t believe that you can judge God by the people who follow him.

The greatest thing Christians are commanded to do is to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love our neighbours as we love ourselves.

All the laws and all the prophets of God hang on and depend on these two commandments; We are asked to love and to pray for our enemies. In many ways to follow Christ is to put others first, and that is a very unnatural and almost impossible thing for us to do at times.

The question of heaven and hell is for God to decide but I believe that God is just and forgiving.

I feel that if we strive to forgive those who have harmed us; then we may start to understand just a little how God can forgive us.

In the spirit of praying to a just and forgiving God

Eric

 

[snakelegs]

both maintain that they are The One True Religion and that unless you follow them, you will go to hell and both believe they must proselytize.

 

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you zoro,

Before we can help others to find peace we must first strive to find peace in our own heart. The greatest commandments are more to do with trying to change ourselves, rather than trying to change other people.

In the spirit of praying for peace on Earth

Eric

 

[Phil12123]

In another thread, we concluded that Muslims and Christians can agree to the following 9 statements:

1. We are all sinners, whether daily or hourly, in word, thought, or deed.

2. Heaven is a perfect place where no sin will ever enter.

3. Without forgiveness of sins, no sinner will ever enter Heaven.

4. No sinner can work enough, or do anything, or be "good" enough, to deserve Heaven.

5. Muslims are hoping in their believing in One God, striving to follow Prophet Muhammad's sunnah (traditions), doing good deeds as much as possible, and in their repentance and Allah's mercy to overcome their sin problem and enter Heaven, which they can never be assured of until the Judgment Day.

6. Christians are relying on repentance and faith in Christ's atoning death for sins, and resurrection, as payment in full for all their sins, in order to receive forgiveness and eternal life as a free gift, here and now and forevermore.

7. According to the Muslim view, Christ did not die on the cross, let alone for anyone's sins. This view is diametrically and irreconcilably opposed to the Christian Gospel that Christ died for our sins and rose again.

8. According to the Christian view, a person who denies the Deity of Christ will die in his sins (John 8:24,58), and be barred from Heaven.

9. According to the Muslim view, believing Christ is God is associating with Allah, the unforgiveable sin that will bar a person from Heaven.

Now, I understand that atheists and agnostics will not agree with the above but nevertheless the above are "things in common between Muslims and Christians" in terms of what we agree on, and so I present them here.

Peace

 

[جوري]

Why do you insinuate yourself in a topic that doesn't concern you? You are neither Christian nor a Muslim, are you a man in tow with a need to ooze some cynicism where ever opportunity presents itself?

G-D exists, or he doesn't.. to you he doesn't... this topic therefore can do without your input. You are a Christian or Muslim, obviously you are neither, again a place where this topic doesn't concern you .
post your Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Democritus, Euclid, or Archimedes points and/or quotes under a thread where their input can somehow relate to the subject matter. We get it, your point is loud and clear-- you are oh so cultured because you have let go of religion.

 

[Phil12123]

Why do you insinuate yourself in a topic that doesn't concern you? You are neither Christian nor a Muslim, are you a man in tow with a need to ooze some cynicism where ever opportunity presents itself?

G-D exists, or he doesn't.. to you he doesn't... this topic therefore can do without your input. You are a Christian or Muslim, obviously you are neither, again a place where this topic doesn't concern you .
post your Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Democritus, Euclid, or Archimedes points and/or quotes under a thread where their input can somehow relate to the subject matter. We get it, your point is loud and clear-- you are oh so cultured because you have let go of religion.

Wow! Right on! Agreed, agreed, agreed!!! So well put.

 

[Gangster No.1]

We also agree that Jesus Christ will come at the end of the world-the Judgement Day.

I have a question for christians:

As WE BOTH believe that jesus will come at the end of the world toward the day of judgment:

Say that does happen!
hypthetically talking would christians convert to islam, once Jesus has revealed himself as to believ that there is no god, but allah, and muhammad is the final messenger, basically decalring that he is a muslim and not the son of god.


Muslims belive he will come from heaven to earth, and i think christains also belive that to, so WOULD you ?


This question is Hypethicall, obvsiouly at the MOMENT christians dont belive that islam is the true religion and muslims belive christanity is the true religion, but as we both agree and we both have the same beliefe of his arrival to earth from heave, so would you belive?

 

[Keltoi]

I have a question for christians:

As WE BOTH believe that jesus will come at the end of the world toward the day of judgment:

Say that does happen!
hypthetically talking would christians convert to islam, once Jesus has revealed himself as to believ that there is no god, but allah, and muhammad is the final messenger, basically decalring that he is a muslim and not the son of god.


Muslims belive he will come from heaven to earth, and i think christains also belive that to, so WOULD you ?


This question is Hypethicall, obvsiouly at the MOMENT christians dont belive that islam is the true religion and muslims belive christanity is the true religion, but as we both agree and we both have the same beliefe of his arrival to earth from heave, so would you belive?

That is a pointless question, as we do not believe there is any possibility of that occurring, but just for the sake of giggles, if Jesus returned to Earth and commanded people to call themselves Muslims, I assume you would agree none of us would have any choice in the matter, with the reverese scenario producing the same result I'm sure.

 

[ummAbdillah]

we agree that god is the source of peace