Things in Islam I am curious about...

[Grace Seeker]

OK. New topic. (At least for me.)

I posted a thread regarding the NCAA basketball tournament in the General forum. Now, amongst the majority of my friends in the USA it is a hot topic. Many people even fill out the brackets and enter pools. I don't participate in gambling. But I do love to compare my predictions of who will win and who will lose with others. Several other forums that I am on have threads devoted to this that are quite popular. But here, not one person responded, and few even looked.

Now, I can understand that those who live outside the USA wouldn't care. But what of our Muslim friends who do live in the USA. Why was there absolutely no interst? Is it just something peculiar to this particular collection of people on this board? Or is there something within Islam I'm not yet aquainted with that would cause people to not be interested? In basketball? In casually talking about it with non-Muslims?

What, if anything, might it have been that led that particular thread to go nowhere?

 

[alcurad]

hmm, maybe not many of us are actually 'american', as in most on LI are actually from other countries in the first place, like i was born in the US, but lived outside most of my life, so I don't really have an idea about the tournament,,
just looked at the thread, hmm, no one posted, that must have stung, perhaps it was at a time no one was around on the forum, I don't know, but no, there is nothing wrong religously in following a sport or making predictions,,

 

[Güven]

You should make a thread about the World Cup football 2010 that is about to start in South-Africa .

I'm sure it will be the most discussed topic in the month .

 

[Grace Seeker]

You should make a thread about the World Cup football 2010 that is about to start in South-Africa .

I'm sure it will be the most discussed topic in the month .

OK. But I will just ask here. What do those of you who are Muslims think about all the fighting that seems to accompanying football games? I understand having intense feelings, but I don't get why they are so often accompanied by violence to the point of sometimes attacking their own team when they lose.

I know it isn't a Muslim act, but just curious if there is any "Muslim opinion" regarding that type of behavior?

Has anyone on these boards ever become involved riotous behavior in connection wtih a football match? If so, how did you and why?

 

[Follower]

I have never understood the fighting.

 

[Güven]

OK. But I will just ask here. What do those of you who are Muslims think about all the fighting that seems to accompanying football games? I understand having intense feelings, but I don't get why they are so often accompanied by violence to the point of sometimes attacking their own team when they lose.

I know it isn't a Muslim act, but just curious if there is any "Muslim opinion" regarding that type of behavior?

Has anyone on these boards ever become in riotous behavior in connection wtih a football match? If so, how did you and why?

It's all about fair-play.

We despise unsportive behaviour , like every other sports lover.

and yes I do become irritated here and there at some games. But not to the point to act violent.

Let me give you an example;

Turkey played an important game against Spain a couple of days ago ...It was 1-0 for Turkey but they lost 1-2.

I became frustrated at how they played and gave away so many chances.

But it's a game , Better luck next time.

 

[islamlover_girl]

I never understood why some people act in this way,of course I despise unsporative behaviour.
About muslims ,muslim must control himself in anger ,when there is a real reason for anger,football can`t never be a real reason for anger .

Hadith - Sahih Al-Bukhari 8.137, Narrated Abu Huraira, r.a.

A man said to the Prophet , "Advise me!" The Prophet said, "Do not become angry and furious." The man asked (the same) again and again, and the Prophet said in each case, "Do not become angry and furious."
Hadith - Sahih Al-Bukhari 8.135, Narrated Abu Huraira, r.a.

Allah's Apostle said, "The strong is not the one who overcomes the people by his strength, but the strong is the one who controls himself while in anger."

 

[Muslim Woman]

In the name of Allah , Most Gracious, Most Merciful

Salaam/peace


Narrated 'Abdullah: As if I am looking at the Prophet while he was speaking about one of the prophets whose people have beaten and wounded him, and he was wiping the blood off his face and saying,

"O Lord! Forgive my, people as they do not know."



http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display.php?book=84&translator=1&start=10&number=62

Does this mean Jesus (pbuh) was tortured before Allah saved him from dieing on the cross ?

 

[Follower]

Muslim Woman - My understanding is that hadith deal with the actions of Mohammad. Since they were written a couple of hundred years after Mohammad died they are way too far removed in time from the life of Jesus to have any bearing.

 

[Hugo]

I know this thread has been dormant for some time but I hope someone can answer this query as I was advised to post it here. Every Christian and Muslim would agree that God forgives but also punishes an both the Qu'ran and Bible say this. However, on what basis does a Holy God forgive sin.

My point is that God is Holy and righteous. It seems to follow that His Justice must also be Holy and perfect therefore he cannot willy nilly forgive sin otherwise His justice and Holiness count for nothing. So does God have some way to balance our good against our bad but and see which side as it were the scales come down?

I find this idea does not work for me. For example, if I kill someone then I cannot reverse that and if I went to court over it the Judge would not let me go free because of a list of good deeds that I had done and I bring with me. Or suppose a burglar steals from me but then pays me back would that negate his crime? These of course are only analogies, I am not offering them as proofs of anything.

It is also more than a little worrying (to me anyway) that I have to wait till the judgement day to know if I will make the grade or not? So two questions about Islamic teachings

1. How is God's Holiness and justice satisfied?
2. Can we have assurance of heaven in this life?

 

[YusufNoor]

I know this thread has been dormant for some time but I hope someone can answer this query as I was advised to post it here. Every Christian and Muslim would agree that God forgives but also punishes an both the Qu'ran and Bible say this. However, on what basis does a Holy God forgive sin.

My point is that God is Holy and righteous. It seems to follow that His Justice must also be Holy and perfect therefore he cannot willy nilly forgive sin otherwise His justice and Holiness count for nothing. So does God have some way to balance our good against our bad but and see which side as it were the scales come down?

I find this idea does not work for me. For example, if I kill someone then I cannot reverse that and if I went to court over it the Judge would not let me go free because of a list of good deeds that I had done and I bring with me. Or suppose a burglar steals from me but then pays me back would that negate his crime? These of course are only analogies, I am not offering them as proofs of anything.

It is also more than a little worrying (to me anyway) that I have to wait till the judgement day to know if I will make the grade or not? So two questions about Islamic teachings

1. How is God's Holiness and justice satisfied?
2. Can we have assurance of heaven in this life?

Moses killed someone, did Allah forgive him?

were there men that Allah gave guidance to "before the current Christian version of salvation?"

here are some partial answers:

On the authority of Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say:

"Allah the Almighty said:

'O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as it.'"


[At-Tirmidhi (also by Ahmad ibn Hanbal). Its chain of authorities is sound.]

On the authority of Abu Hurayrah (may Allah be pleased with him), who said that the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said:

"When Allah decreed the Creation He pledged Himself by writing in His book which is laid down with Him: 'My mercy prevails over my wrath.'"

[Muslim (also by al-Bukhari, an-Nasa'i and Ibn Majah)]

On the authority of Ibn Abbas that the messenger of Allah, among the sayings he relates from his Lord is :

"Allah has written down the good deeds and the bad ones." Then he explained it [by saying that] :" He who has intended a good deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as from ten good deeds to seven hundred times, or many times over. But if he has intended a bad deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down as one bad deed."

related by Bukhari and Muslim in their two salihs

On the authority of Omar bin Al-Khattab, who said : I heared the messenger of Allah salla Allah u alihi wa sallam say :

"Actions are but by intention and every man shall have but that which he intended. Thus he whose migration was for Allah and His messenger, his migration was for Allah and His messenger, and he whose migration was to achieve some worldly benefit or to take some woman in marriage, his migration was for that for which he migrated."

related by Bukhari and Muslim

On the authority of Al-Numan bin Basheer, who said : I heared the messenger of Allah say :

"That which is lawful is plain and that which is unlawful is plain and between the two of them are doubtful matters about which not many people know. Thus he who avoids doubtful matters clears himself in regard to his religion and his honor, but he who falls into doubtful matters falls into that which is unlawful, like the shepherd who pastures around a sanctuary, all but grazing therein. Truly every king has a sanctuary, and truly Allah's sanctuary is His prohibitions. Truly in the body there is a morsel of flesh which, if it be whole, all the body is whole and which, if it be diseased, all of it is diseased. Truly it is the heart."

narrated by Bukhari and Muslim

On the authority of Tamim Al-Dari that the prophet said:

"Religion is sincerity". We said: "To whom?" He said: "To Allah and His Book, and His messenger, and to the leaders of the Muslims and their common folk".

narrated by Muslim

On the authority of Abu Hurairah, who said : I heared the messenger of Allah say :

"What I have forbidden to you, avoid; what I have ordered you [to do], do as much of it as you can. It was only their excessive questioning and their disagreeing with their prophets that destroyed those who were before you."

related bu Bukhari and Muslim

On the authority of Al-Hasan bin Ali, the grandson of the messenger of Allah, who said : I memorized from the messenger of Allah his saying :

"Leave that which makes you doubt for that which does not make you doubt."

narrated by Termithi and Nasaee, and Tirmithi said it is true and fine hadith.

On the authority of Anas bin Malik, the servant of the messenger of Allah, that the prophet said :

"None of you [truely] believes until he wishes for his brother what he wishes for himself."

related by Bukhari and Muslim

On the authority of Abu Malik Al-Harith bin Asim Al-Ashari said that the messenger of Allah said:

"Purity is half of faith. alhamdu-lillah [Praise be to Allah] fills the scales, and subhana-Allah [How far is Allah from every imperfection] and alhamdu-lillah [Praise be to Allah] fill that which is between heaven and earth. Prayer is light; charity is a proof; patience is illumination; and the Quran is an argument for or against you. Everyone starts his day and is a vendor of his soul, either freeing it or bringing about its ruin."

related by Muslim.

On the authority of Abu Dharr Al-Ghafari, of the prophet is that among the sayings he relates from his Lord is that He said:

"O My servants, I have forbidden oppression for Myself and have made it forbidden amongst you, so do not oppress one another.

O My servants, all of you are astray except for those I have guided, so seek guidance of Me and I shall guide you. O My servants, all of you are hungry except for those I have fed, so seek food of Me and I shall feed you. O My servants, all of you are naked except for those I have clothed, so seek clothing of Me and I shall clothe you. O My servants, you sin by night and by day, and I forgive all sins, so seek forgiveness of Me and I shall forgive you.

O My servants, you will not attain harming Me so as to harm Me, and you will not attain benefiting Me so as to benefit Me. O my servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to become as pious as the most pious heart of any one man of you, that would not increase My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to be as wicked as the most wicked heart of any one man of you, that would not decrease My kingdom in anything. O My servants, were the first of you and the last of you, the human of you and the jinn of you to rise up in one place and make a request of Me, and were I to give everyone what he requested, that would not decrease what I have, any more than a needle decreases the sea if put into it.

O My servants, it is but your deeds that I reckon up for you and then recompense you for, so let him who finds good praise Allah, and let him who finds other than that blame no one but himself."

related by Muslim

On the authority of Abu Hurairah that the Prophet said:

"Whosoever removes a worldly grief from a believer, Allah will remove from him one of the griefs of the Day of Judgment. Whosoever alleviates [the lot of] a needy person, Allah will alleviate [his lot] in this world and the next. Whosoever shields a Muslim, Allah will shield him in this world and the next. Allah will aid a servant [of His] so long as the servant aids his brother. Whosoever follows a path to seek knowledge therein, Allah will make easy for him a path to Paradise. No people gather together in one of the houses of Allah, reciting the Book of Allah and studying it among themselves, without tranquility descending upon them, mercy enveloping them, the angels surrounding them, and Allah making mention of them amongst those who are with Him. Whosoever is slowed down by his actions will not be hastened forward by his lineage."

related by Muslim in these words.

him who has ears, let him hear...

 

[Grace Seeker]

Yusuf, I don't think I have ears to hear, for I don't get the connection between your answers and Hugo's questions.

Specifically, referring to a Hadith like:

"Allah has written down the good deeds and the bad ones." Then he explained it [by saying that] :" He who has intended a good deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as from ten good deeds to seven hundred times, or many times over. But if he has intended a bad deed and has not done it, Allah writes it down with Himself as a full good deed, but if he has intended it and has done it, Allah writes it down as one bad deed."

How does this address the question of justice?

I don't think you are intending to say that good intentions are all that matters, or are you?

Perhaps you are disagreeing with Hugo's view of how God demands holiness and are saying that Allah is not as concerned about justice as we are, but more about the desires of one's heart to do good?????

 

[Grace Seeker]

I am telling what I heard from an Imam,

A guy asked him wether a man who is impure is allowed to touch the qur'an or not.
He replied referring to the following verse:
None shall touch it save the purified ones (56:79)

that it means "spiritual purity" and all muslims male or female are in this sense pure therefore they can always touch it.

Now there are other opinions that say you should perform (purification) wether male or female before you touch the qur'an.

The above post found in another thread raises a question for me.

If only the spiritually pure can touch the Qur'an, and if this refers specifically to "spiritual" purity, and if I am a mushirk or kaffir, how would I ever be allowed to touch the Qur'an? Yet, Muslims do give copies of the Qur'an to those that they are trying to convert -- I know they have been given to me. Assumably, since those people had not yet converted they would not be spiritually pure. So, how is it that a Muslim can give to an impure person such as me a copy of the Qur'an to read when "None shall touch it save the purified ones" (56:79)?

Isn't this a catch-22 when it comes to sharing the Islamic faith with non-Muslims?

 

[YusufNoor]

Yusuf, I don't think I have ears to hear, for I don't get the connection between your answers and Hugo's questions.

Specifically, referring to a Hadith like: How does this address the question of justice?

I don't think you are intending to say that good intentions are all that matters, or are you?

Perhaps you are disagreeing with Hugo's view of how God demands holiness and are saying that Allah is not as concerned about justice as we are, but more about the desires of one's heart to do good?????

you SAY God demands holiness, but YOUR religion doesn't, just: christ has died, christ has risen, christ will come again!?

so for you, it's all about finding the right mantra

Peace be upon those who follow the guidance,

well it's 5:30am i am on my way to work.

HOWEVER, perhaps you missed this

here are some partial answers:

as well as the preamble to his questions:

It is also more than a little worrying (to me anyway) that I have to wait till the judgement day to know if I will make the grade or not? So two questions about Islamic teachings

btw, we don't have any [Buddhist-like] mantras (christ has died, christ has risen, christ will come again) that GUARANTEE us anything.

and of course, you ALWAYS ignore:

On the authority of Anas (may Allah be pleased with him), who said: I heard the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) say:

"Allah the Almighty said:

'O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no partner to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as it.'"


[At-Tirmidhi (also by Ahmad ibn Hanbal). Its chain of authorities is sound.]

we believe in Tawbah, ie, repentance; and NOT "chanting"

as far as repentance is concerned:

On the authority of Tamim Al-Dari that the prophet said:

"Religion is sincerity". We said: "To whom?" He said: "To Allah and His Book, and His messenger, and to the leaders of the Muslims and their common folk".

narrated by Muslim

we don't have the same problems as you "proto-orthodox" "Christians" who need to DESTROY God's Law in order to find "salvation" in "the above mentioned mantra." once you've destroyed the law, how can define holiness any longer?

it's like you have added a 4th god, but insisting that the god of the "Old Testament" was confused, angry and mistaken and that your Christ came to save you from him!

Qul ya ayyuha alkafiroon
La aAAbudu ma taAAbudoon
Wala antum AAabidoona maaAAbud
Wala ana AAabidun maAAabadtum
Wala antum AAabidoona maaAAbud
Lakum deenukum waliya deen

 

[GreyKode]

I know this thread has been dormant for some time but I hope someone can answer this query as I was advised to post it here. Every Christian and Muslim would agree that God forgives but also punishes an both the Qu'ran and Bible say this. However, on what basis does a Holy God forgive sin.

My point is that God is Holy and righteous. It seems to follow that His Justice must also be Holy and perfect therefore he cannot willy nilly forgive sin otherwise His justice and Holiness count for nothing. So does God have some way to balance our good against our bad but and see which side as it were the scales come down?

I find this idea does not work for me. For example, if I kill someone then I cannot reverse that and if I went to court over it the Judge would not let me go free because of a list of good deeds that I had done and I bring with me. Or suppose a burglar steals from me but then pays me back would that negate his crime? These of course are only analogies, I am not offering them as proofs of anything.

It is also more than a little worrying (to me anyway) that I have to wait till the judgement day to know if I will make the grade or not? So two questions about Islamic teachings

1. How is God's Holiness and justice satisfied?
2. Can we have assurance of heaven in this life?

1)Define "mercy",

If someone does something bad to you, Can you forgive him or not? and if you do, do you have to take it on someone else, do you have to for example punish someone else to do that?

2) Are you convinced by the idea that the atonement for all sin (even for example things like calling bad names) is death?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

The above post found in another thread raises a question for me.

If only the spiritually pure can touch the Qur'an, and if this refers specifically to "spiritual" purity, and if I am a mushirk or kaffir, how would I ever be allowed to touch the Qur'an? Yet, Muslims do give copies of the Qur'an to those that they are trying to convert -- I know they have been given to me. Assumably, since those people had not yet converted they would not be spiritually pure. So, how is it that a Muslim can give to an impure person such as me a copy of the Qur'an to read when "None shall touch it save the purified ones" (56:79)?

Isn't this a catch-22 when it comes to sharing the Islamic faith with non-Muslims?

Very interesting question. I'm looking forward to the replies on this one.

Peace

 

[crayon]

^It's fine for non muslims to use translations of the Quran, just not the actual arabic version, same as it would be for a muslim who is in a state of impurity.

link

 

[Hugo]

Moses killed someone, did Allah forgive him? were there men that Allah gave guidance to "before the current Christian version of salvation?"

Thank you for a very full reply but may I respond in two posts so that I can be sure my understanding of the Islamic position is clear. But just to attempt an answer to your two question first. It is as you say true that Moses killed an Egyptian the story being recorded in Exodus 2:11-12 (NIV)

11. One day, after Moses had grown up, he went out to where his own people were and watched them at their hard labor. He saw an Egyptian beating a Hebrew, one of his own people. 12. Glancing this way and that and seeing no one, he killed the Egyptian and hid him in the sand.

Now regarding forgiveness the Jewish and Christian position is the same in that Moses looked forward to the messiah to forgive and take away sins and since Jesus, Christians look backward and believe that forgiveness comes through Jesus. Christians argue that Jesus and the messiah are the same person. So it's not a Christian view of salvation it is a salvation that is spoken of from Genesis onwards. In the Old Testament from Adam onwards men were given revaluations. We note even in Genesis 1: 14-15 (NIV)

14. So the LORD God said to the serpent, "Because you have done this, "Cursed are you above all the livestock and all the wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. 15. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

Christians take this to mean (the person doing the crushing) to be Jesus and the Jews would tale it to mean the Messiah. Indeed the same kind of message about the work of Jesus/Messiah is repeated many times in the OT.

When I have read and digested your excellent post I will reply if I have any further questions

 

[Grace Seeker]

^It's fine for non muslims to use translations of the Quran, just not the actual arabic version, same as it would be for a muslim who is in a state of impurity.

link

Does this mean that a secular scholar of anceint texts, no matter his academic qualifications, is not permitted to study the ancient Qur'anic texts?

 

[crayon]

^He could study it by just observation, without actually touching it.