Things in Islam I am curious about...

[Malaikah]

Can you give examples of any other things that have changed over time?

Adam and Eve's children were allowed to marry each other - yet incest is forbidden for us (true of Jews, Christians and Muslims).

That is, assuming the Christian in question actually believes that Adam and Eve existed... :blind:

 

[Uthman]

Grace Seeker, prostration is of different types. There is prostration of respect and prostration of worship. The angels were commanded to do the former to Adam. However, we are not allowed to do this type of prostration to anybody now.

 

[doorster]

Grace Seeker, prostration is of different types. There is prostration of respect and prostration of worship. The angels were commanded to do the former to Adam. However, we are not allowed to do this type of prostration to anybody now.

at last some one I can talk with without fear of mischief

according to Maududi:


This signifies that all the angels whose jurisdiction embraces the earth and that part of the universe in which the earth is situated were ordered to devote themselves to man's service. Since man had been invested with authority on earth the angels were told that whenever man wanted to make use of the powers with which he had been invested by God, and which God of His own will had allowed him to use, they should co-operate with him and enable him to do whatever to do, irrespective of right and wrong.

This can be understood with reference to the manner in which government employees are required to work. When a sovereign appoints a governor or a magistrate, all government employees under his jurisdiction are dutiful to him.

But as soon as the sovereign indicates to those employees that the governor or magistrate should be barred from doing something, the effective authority of the governor or the magistrate comes to an abrupt end. In fact, were the sovereign to issue the order that the governor be dismissed or imprisoned, the same employees who until then had been moving to and fro at his bidding would not feel hesitant in putting hand on him and taking him to prison.

God's order to the angels to prostrate themselves before Adam was of a similar nature. It is possible that prostration signifies the fact of their becoming yoked to man's service. At the same time it is also possible that they, were ordered to perform the act of prostration itself as a sign of the envisaged relationship between angels and man.

 

[Uthman]

Wa 'Alaykum As-salaam

JazakAllah Khayr. Now this is from Tafsir Ibn Kathir:

The Prostration was before Adam but the Obedience was to Allah

 

['Abd-al Latif]

How long is a day for GOD?

2 Peter 3
8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day.

LOL! Gossamer Zaphran believes that the arabs were a backwards group during Mohammad's time. They did not live in a bubble!! There were Christians and Jews in the area. 'These people were merchants traveling meeting people from all over. So we can find a secular historian at the time of Jesus but not 600 years later? '

LOL! Gossamer - This discussion with Zaphran is all about my asking if there is proof that the angel was Gabriel and that he actually spoke to Mohammad. Are there any witnesses?

Zaphran woun't answer but needs me to prove that Moses spoke to GOD. I give him what I have and yet he still can not give me the evidence I need about Mohammad and Gabriel.

This leads me to the answer, for no answer is actually the answer!! No. There is absolutely no proof, no witnesses that the angel was Gabriel and that he actually spoke to Mohammad.

OK, I can move on to another topic.

Is there proof that Jesus met with Gabriel?

Is there proof that Moses met with Gabriel?

Is there proof Abraham met with Gabriel?

The answer to all the above is yes but as far as christianity is concerned there were no witnesses, and that specially includes you, Follower!

There is proof that Muhammad spoke to Gabriel though. There is a hadeeth that goes as follows:

‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab (r) said: One day when we were with the Messenger of Allaah (saaws), there appeared before us a man whose clothes were exceedingly white and his hair was exceedingly black, and there were no signs of travel on him. No one among us recognized him. He came and sat down by the Prophet (saaws) and rested his knees against his and placed the palms on his hands on his thighs.

He said:

“O Muhammad, tell me about Islam.”

The Messenger of Allaah (saaws) said: “Islam is to testify that there is none worthy of worship except Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah, to establish regular prayer, to pay zakaah, to fast Ramadaan and to go on pilgrimage to the House if you are able to.”

He said: “You have spoke the truth.”

And we were amazed at his asking that and saying that he had spoken the truth.

Then he said: “Tell me about eemaan (faith, belief),”

He said: “It means believing in Allaah, His angels, His Books, His Messengers, and the Last Day, and believing in al-qadar (the divine will and decree), both good and bad.”

He said: “You have spoken the truth.”

He said: “Tell me about ihsaan.” He said: “It means worshipping Allaah as if you can see Him, and although you cannot see Him, He can see you.”

He said: “Tell me about the Hour.”

He said: “The one who is being asked does not know more about it than the one who is asking.”

He said: “Then tell me about its signs.”

He said: “The slave-girl will give birth to her mistress, and you will see the barefoot, naked, destitute herdsmen competing in constructing lofty buildings.”

Then he departed and I stayed for a while. Then he (i.e. the Prophet) said to me: “O ‘Umar, do you know who the questioner was?” I said: “Allaah and His Messenger know best.” He said: “That was Jibreel (Gabriel), who came to teach you your religion.”

[Muslim in his Saheeh (8)]

 

[alcurad]

You say, "It's not allowed Now..." Why would this change?

I can understand that you might not have a revealed answer, so please speculate if you must.
Can you give examples of any other things that have changed over time?

since now Allah is the only figure of authority, and there are no more prophets.
given that worship is to him alone, it is only prudent that gestures of extreme respect/veneration be exclusively applied to him.

also, in keeping with the times, human culture evolves, and as was noted before incest was allowed for the first generations, although that's not exactly related, it does give an idea of how certain actions have different rulings over time.

they are different since incest has obvious harmful affects, prostrating to someone might not appear to have any ovelry negative affects, but think of what it means to prostrate to someone in this day and age specifically, and what it might entail.

protestation is to an extent an act of humbleness, and more clearly and act of servitude, to accord a human that much is not acceptable in Islam, since only Allah is deserving of it, furthermore this frees man from worshiping/serving man, since now even the gestures that remotely denote servitude are only accorded to Allah, to whom all prostrate.

the affect is humbling to all, and confirms Allah as above all, as well as all those beneath him being equal since they only prostrate to him.

I guess I'm over-complicating a bit, but it seems obvious to me, and the obvious is usually hardest to explain. I hope that made sense.

 

[Grace Seeker]

You know I really appreciate the diveristy of answers from different responders. That gives me a much better understanding than any single post, even from the best writer, alone could provide. Thanks all.



Alcurad makes me think of another issue -- that of avoiding images. I know that one does not use images in a mosque for many of the same reasons that have just been discussed regarding worship. But how about in just ordinary life? I recall that someone here suggested that he didn't want to post pictures of people, not for internet security but religious appropriateness. And of course we aren't to include faces of people in our avatars on LI. Yet I know plenty of Muslims that carry around pictures of their family with them, just like I do. Is this just a personal issue? Or are there some actual restrictions on the use of images in Islam beyond that of worship?

 

[alcurad]

objectively, there isn't any real order against pictures as pictures, only their use as items for worship or if they are obscene etc.
some people go overboard with it though. TV used to be 'forbidden'-still is to many- simply because it has/d 'images of humans' in it..
mostly the result of using weak or out of context narrations, at the time of the prophet, 'depiction' was mostly done with the intent of creating idols.

 

[Grace Seeker]

objectively, there isn't any real order against pictures as pictures, only their use as items for worship or if they are obscene etc.

Thanks! That's what I thought, but had seen other practices. Waiting to see if this is affirmed by others or perhaps there are different views in other places around the world.

 

[Follower]

LOL!! ok, hadith written way after the fact- 200 years later.

"Is there proof that Jesus met with Gabriel?

Is there proof that Moses met with Gabriel?

Is there proof Abraham met with Gabriel?"

I do not understand this statement - The answer to all the above is yes but as far as christianity is concerned there were no witnesses, and that specially includes you, Follower!

I have already mentioned that I have no idea about the secular historians from Old Testament times. We do have archeological evidence to show that the stories are accurate and places in the Holy Bible existed.

I have also mentioned that we have prophecies fufilled to prove that the Holy Bible is GOD's Word. And so as I have mentioned Moses was given miracles to prove to his people that He had spoken with GOD and these are recoreded in GOD's Holy Word.

There is the example of Paul and Jesus and Ananais in Paul's conversion. Ananaias being an outside witness to the event on the road to Damascus.

Not only are there prophecies about Jesus in the Old Testament and His crucifixion there are secular historians to the fact that Jesus was crucified in 33 AD.

Read
Isaiah 53
1 Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of the LORD been revealed?

2 He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.

3 He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

4 Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.

5 But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.

6 We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and the LORD has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

7 He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.

8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.

9 He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

10 Yet it was the LORD's will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though the LORD makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
and the will of the LORD will prosper in his hand.

11 After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by his knowledge my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.

12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

LOL!! ok, hadith written way after the fact- 200 years later.

False, false and FALSE! If you cared to get your head outside the Comparative Religion section you would know better and Lord knows how many times I've told you this.

Hadith were written down during the lifetime of the Prophet and there are ahadeeth to prove this. Here's an article from a book called 'Sciences of Hadeeth' by an apostate of Christianity who is now a Muslim.

1. Hadeeth were written down during the Era of The Prophet

During the life of the Prophet (saws) there was no pressing need to write down all of his various statements or record his actions because he was present and could be consulted at any time. As a matter of fact, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) himself made a general prohibition against writing down his statements which were other than the Qur’aan itself.[1] This was to prevent the possibility of mixing up the Qur’aan with his own words during the era of revelation. Consequently, the greatest stress regarding writing was placed on recording the Qur’aanic verses. However, there are many authentic narrations collected by the Scholars of Hadeeth that prove that Hadeeth were recorded in writing even during the lifetime of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him).

For example, ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Amr said: “I used to write everything which I heard from the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings be upon him) with the intention of memorizing it. However, some Quray****es forbade me from doing so saying, ‘Do you write everything that you hear from him, while the Messenger of Allaah is a human being who speaks in anger and pleasure?’ So I stopped writing, and mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings be upon him). He pointed with his finger to his mouth and said: ‘Write! By Him in whose hand is my soul, only truth comes out from it.’ [2]

Aboo Hurayrah said: When Makkah was conquered, the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) stood up and gave a sermon [Aboo Hurayrah then mentioned the sermon]. A man from Yemen, called Aboo Shaah got up and said, “O Messenger of Allaah! Write it down for me.” The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings be upon him) replied, “Write it for Aboo Shaah.”[3] Al-Waleed asked Aboo ‘Amr, “What are they writing?” He replied, “The sermon which he heard that day.”[4]

Aboo Qaabeel said: We were with ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas and he was asked which city will be conquered first Constantinople or Rome? So ‘Abdullaah called for a sealed trunk and he said, “Take out the book from it.” Then ‘Abdullaah said, “While we were with the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings be upon him) writing, The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings be upon him) was asked, “Which city will be conquered first, Constantinople or Rome?” So Allaah’s Messenger (peace and blessings be upon him) said: “The city of Heracilius will be conquered first,” meaning Constantinople.”[5]

__________________________________________________ ________
footnotes

1 Saheeh Muslim, zuhd, 72. This is the only authentic hadeeth on the topic and al-Bukhaaree and others considered it to be a statement of Aboo Sa‘eed himself that was erroneously attributed to the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). See Studies in Hadith Methodology and Literature, p. 28.

2 Sunan Abu Dawud, vol. 3, p. 1035, no. 3639 and authenticated in Saheeh Sunan Abee Daawood, no. 3099. The collection of Hadeeth of ‘Abdullaah ibn ‘Amr is known as as-Saheefah as-Saadiqah.

3 Sunan Abu Dawud, vol. 3, no. 3641 and authenticated in Saheeh Sunan Abee Daawood, no. 3100.

4 Ibid., vol. 3 no. 3642 and authenticated Saheeh Sunan Abee Daawood, no. 3101.

5 Saheeh: Musnad Ahmad (2: 176), Sunan ad-Daarimee (1: 126) and Mustadrak al Haakim (3:422).

Read this quote above properly and get in your head that hadeeth were written down during the Era of the Prophet!

They were only collected into books/volumes later on and the most famous of them is called "Saheeh Al-Bukhari" which came 200 years after the Prophet, but this obviously meant that hadeeth had to exist before this period!

There are also other Hadeeth books that were compiled before this time by famous scholars such as the great Ibn Shihaab az-Zuhri, Imam Malik Ibn Anas, Ahmed Ibn Hambal, Imam Shafi'ee etc.

"Is there proof that Jesus met with Gabriel?

Is there proof that Moses met with Gabriel?

Is there proof Abraham met with Gabriel?"

I do not understand this statement - The answer to all the above is yes but as far as christianity is concerned there were no witnesses, and that specially includes you, Follower!

There were no eye witnesses if Gabriel had met any other of the Prophet as far as christianity is concerned.

There is the example of Paul and Jesus and Ananais in Paul's conversion. Ananaias being an outside witness to the event on the road to Damascus.

Paul never met Jesus.

 

[Zafran]

salaam

Yes well said - The hadiths were written down in the time of the prophet and put in volumes 200 years after eg Bukhari - many volumes were also before that eg Malik Muttawatta. - a bit like the bible - where the first gospel was written 50 years after christ and canonized 300 years after!!!! -

 

[Uthman]

Greetings Grace Seeker

Thanks! That's what I thought, but had seen other practices. Waiting to see if this is affirmed by others or perhaps there are different views in other places around the world.

Please view this link: http://muttaqun.com/pictures.html

 

[Muhseen]

I like this thread, especially as I too get a number of unanswered questions in Islam--my religion.

 

[lifeguard]

Coming back to music for a while..Allah created the birds that chirp in tune..Allah created the nightingle that sings...So why would Allah forbid music? Further more if the sufi music and qawwalis and naats brings us closer to Allah..some make us cry in remembrance and love of Allah as well..I don't see why Allah would want us to not to love Him and remember Him...

Allah clearly stated the things that are harmful and forbidden like alcohol, flesh of swine, blood etc..

Allah gave man the will to choose right from wrong..

Maybe we have a will to choose wat music benefits us and what doesnt..

I dunno just my thoughts...don jump on me

 

['Abd-al Latif]

^

This has been discussed in detail here: http://www.islamicboard.com/miscellaneous/134277415-music.html

So why would Allah forbid music?

Because Allah knows best what is evil and what isn't.

Further more if the sufi music and qawwalis and naats brings us closer to Allah..some make us cry in remembrance and love of Allah as well..I don't see why Allah would want us to not to love Him and remember Him...

They don't because music is prohibited to begin with. I don't know about naat but qawwali's use musical instruments and they just provoke emotions because if one truely wanted to come closer to Allah he would recite Qur'an until his eyes were filled with tears.

How can one come closer to Allah through the means he has prohibited?

 

[Grace Seeker]

Greetings Grace Seeker Please view this link: http://muttaqun.com/pictures.html

I take that as a post in disagreement with the view that normal everyday pictures of things like family and friends are OK to have.

 

[Uthman]

I take that as a post in disagreement with the view that normal everyday pictures of things like family and friends are OK to have.

It certainly seems that way. What would be your conclusion, based on the evidence?

 

[Ali_008]

I did not read the muttaqun.com article but there is some evidence with which pictures are supported. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) prohibited "tasveer" whose meaning is pictures but if you put a little thought to it, you'll see that it comes from the root word "tasavvur". Tasavvur means imagination and so the items made by an artist/painter or a sculpt and a photographer are very different because in the former case, the manufacturing is out of imagination whereas photographers freeze real life moments. There are so many ahadeeth that prohibit tasveer and so implying this to real life photographs won't be appropriate and this is the opinion held by some scholars. I hope this helps because I wrote all this up in a hurry.

 

[Uthman]

Wa 'Alaykum As-salaam

I did not read the muttaqun.com article but there is some evidence with which pictures are supported. Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) prohibited "tasveer" whose meaning is pictures but if you put a little thought to it, you'll see that it comes from the root word "tasavvur". Tasavvur means imagination and so the items made by an artist/painter or a sculpt and a photographer are very different because in the former case, the manufacturing is out of imagination whereas photographers freeze real life moments. There are so many ahadeeth that prohibit tasveer and so implying this to real life photographs won't be appropriate and this is the opinion held by some scholars. I hope this helps because I wrote all this up in a hurry.

That makes sense too. I think this proves that it is always important to go back to the original Arabic to ensure that the correct meaning is understood. I read some articles on the Islamqa website which apply it to proper photographs as well though.