Things in Islam I am curious about...

she was indeed a princess the daughter of the pharaoh.. please have a look at the Jewish encyclopedia here as I figured they'd be no other historical source would be deemed credible even though the deleted threads had more references historical in nature rather than with a religious spin.

—In Rabbinical Literature:
According to the Midrash (Gen. R. xlv.), Hagar was the daughter of Pharaoh, who, seeing what great miracles God had done for Sarah's sake (Gen. xii. 17), said: "It is better for Hagar to be a slave in Sarah's house than mistress in her own." In this sense Hagar's name is interpreted as "reward" ("Ha-Agar" = "this is reward"). She was at first reluctant when Sarah desired her to marry Abraham, and although Sarah had full authority over her as her handmaid, she persuaded her, saying. "Consider thyself happy to be united with this saint."


http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=53&letter=H

Whatever fillers from christian or jewish or even per page Arabic literature can be dismissed. The law and historical facts know of no emotion.

Now, why did she marry Abraham, it was the promise that God was to fulfill to Abraham.


: 124
And [remember this:] when his Sustainer tried Abraham by [His] commandments and the latter fulfilled them,* He said: "Behold, I shall make thee a leader of men."
Abraham asked: "And [wilt Thou make leaders] of my offspring as well?"
[God] answered: "My covenant does not embrace the evildoers."**

*The classical commentators have indulged in much speculation as to what these commandments (kalimdt, lit., "words") were. Since, however, the Qur'an does not specify them, it must be presumed that what is meant here is simply Abraham's complete submission to whatever commandments he received from God.

**This passage, read in conjunction with the two preceding verses, refutes the contention of the children of Israel that by virtue of their descent from Abraham, whom God made "a leader of men", they are "God's chosen people". The Qur'an makes it clear that the exalted status of Abraham was not something that would automatically confer a comparable status on his physical descendants, and certainly not on the sinners among them.

2: 125
AND LO! We made the Temple a goal to which people might repair again and again, and a sanctuary: * take then, the place whereon Abraham once stood as your place of prayer."**
And thus did We command Abraham and Ishmael: "Purify My Temple for those who will walk around it,*** and those who will abide near it in meditation, and those who will bow down and prostrate themselves [in prayer]."

*The Temple (al-bayt)-lit., "the House [of Worship]"'-mentioned here is the Ka`bah in Mecca. In other places the Qur'an speaks of it as "the Ancient Temple" (al-bayt al= atrq), and frequently also as "the Inviolable House of Worship" (al-masjid al-hardm ). Its prototype is said to have been built by Abraham as the first temple ever dedicated to the One God (see 3 : 96), and which for this reason has been instituted as the direction of prayer (giblah) for all Muslims, and as the goal of the annually recurring pilgrimage (hajj). It is to be noted that even in pre-Islamic times the Ka`bah was associated with the memory of Abraham, whose personality had always been in the foreground of Arabian thought. According to very ancient Arabian traditions, it was at the site of what later became Mecca that Abraham, in order to placate Sarah, abandoned his Egyptian bondwoman Hagar and their child Ishmael after he had brought them there from Canaan. This is by no means improbable if one bears in mind that for a camel-riding bedouin (and Abraham was certainly one) a journey of twenty or even thirty days has never been anything out of the ordinary. At first glance, the Biblical statement (Genesis xii, 14) that it was "in the wilderness of Beersheba" (i.e., in the southernmost tip of Palestine) that Abraham left Hagar and Ishmael would seem to conflict with the Qur'anic account. This seeming contradiction, however, disappears as soon as we remember that to the ancient, town-dwelling Hebrews the term "wilderness of Beersheba" comprised all the desert regions south of Palestine, including the Hijaz. It was at the place where they had been abandoned that Hagar and Ishmael, after having discovered the spring which is now called the Well of Zamzam, eventually settled; and it may have been that very spring which in time induced a wandering group of bedouin families belonging to the South-Arabian (Qahtani) tribe of Jurhum to settle there. Ishmael later married a girl of this tribe, and so became the progenitor of the musta `ribah ("Arabianized") tribes -thus called on account of their descent from a Hebrew father and a Qahtani mother. As for Abraham, he is said to have often visited Hagar and Ishmael; and it was on the occasion of one of these periodic visits that he, aided by Ishmael, erected the original structure of the Ka`bah. (For more detailed accounts of the Abraham'c tradition, see Bukhari's Sahfh, Kitdb al- '11m, Tabari's Ta'rfkh al-Umam, Ibn Sad, Ibn Hisham, Mas'fidi's Murai adh-Dhahab, Yaqut's Mu'jam alBulddn, and other early Muslim historians.)

**This may refer to the immediate vicinity of the Ka'bah or, more probably (Manor I, 461 f.), to the sacred precincts (haram) surrounding it. The word amn (lit., "safety") denotes in this context a sanctuary for all living beings.

***The seven-fold circumambulation (fawdf) of the Ka'bah is one of the rites of the pilgrimage, symbolically indicating that all human actions and endeavours ought to have the idea of God and His oneness for their centre.

2: 126
And, lo, Abraham prayed: "O my Sustainer! Make this a land secure, and grant its people fruitful sustenance - such of them as believe in God and the Last Day."
[God] answered: "And whoever shall deny the truth, him will I let enjoy himself for a short while -but in the end I shall drive him to suffering through fire: and how vile a journey's end!"

2: 127
And when Abraham and Ishmael were raising the foundations of the Temple, [they prayed:] "O our Sustainer! Accept Thou this from us: for, verily, Thou alone art all-hearing, all-knowing!

2: 128
"O our Sustainer! Make us surrender ourselves unto Thee, and make out of our offspring* a community that shall surrender itself unto Thee, and show us our ways of worship, and accept our repentance: for, verily, Thou alone art the Acceptor of Repentance, the Dispenser of Grace!

* The expression "our offspring" indicates Abraham's progeny through his first-born son, Ishmael, and is an indirect reference to the Prophet Muhammad. who descended from the latter.

in closure, if we are to go by your logic, why would Abraham marry his half sister, and leave (Haran) Iraq for Palestine or Makkah for that matter?

all the best
 
she was indeed a princess the daughter of the pharaoh.. please have a look at the Jewish encyclopedia here as I figured they'd be no other historical source would be deemed credible even though the deleted threads had more references historical in nature rather than with a religious spin.

—In Rabbinical Literature:
According to the Midrash (Gen. R. xlv.), Hagar was the daughter of Pharaoh, who, seeing what great miracles God had done for Sarah's sake (Gen. xii. 17), said: "It is better for Hagar to be a slave in Sarah's house than mistress in her own." In this sense Hagar's name is interpreted as "reward" ("Ha-Agar" = "this is reward"). She was at first reluctant when Sarah desired her to marry Abraham, and although Sarah had full authority over her as her handmaid, she persuaded her, saying. "Consider thyself happy to be united with this saint."

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=53&letter=H

I had not heard this before. I guess it is true you learn something new every day. You implied that you might have had some other sources. Without quoting the whole text, can you cite the location in these other documents wherein one could find more on Hagar's background?
 
Originally Posted by Gossamer skye
she was indeed a princess the daughter of the pharaoh.. please have a look at the Jewish encyclopedia here as I figured they'd be no other historical source would be deemed credible even though the deleted threads had more references historical in nature rather than with a religious spin
In JewishEncyclopedia.com the story of Hagar is much more varied that you imply and to me it makes plain that much of what is said is homiletic and of course as you know the same encyclopaedia has much that is critical of Hagar and the idea of Hagar being Pharaohs daughter is just a rabbinical homily and not necessarily a fact. Also just as a matter of interest, do you have any view on the fact that the Bible is silent on the issue?
 
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In JewishEncyclopedia.com the story of Hagar is much more varied that you imply and to me it makes plain that much of what is said is homiletic and of course as you know the same encyclopaedia has much that is critical of Hagar and the idea of Hagar being Pharaohs daughter is just a rabbinical homily and not necessarily a fact. Also just as a matter of interest, do you have any view on the fact that the Bible is silent on the issue?


Your feelings are inconsequential, it is indeed interesting that there is some acknowledgment to Hagar's background at all considering how much hatred is harbored by both Christian and Jews that the covenant would be lost to the son of an alleged slave, a disaster when she is in fact she royalty, a wife and a mother to the first born.. I understand the ramification would be great if there weren't some sort of character assassination involved, which from observation is about the only ammo you have... thus you can keep telling yourself whatever you need to justify prevarications of God's words, be it turning men into gods or women into mere slaves.. as far as I am concerned the tanakh and your bible aren't an historically accurate authority, I will not even touch upon other nonsense therein... Take yourself to the library and rent out some history books on ancient Egypt during the Predynastic/Thinite era!


with that as an aside, I find modern christian and Jews of no relation at all Abraham and his descendants whether through Ishmael or Issac, it is beyond me, why Europeans from the lands of Odin, the druids and other pagan gods would forgo their roots for middle eastern religions which they feign to understand better than the natives.. No matter how you slice it, Abraham (p) was originally from Iraq, to Palestine to Mecca.. none of those regions say, U.S, or Canada, or Belgium or France .. leaves one wondering indeed about additions and subtractions, who in God's names were Mark, or Luke in relation to Jesus to be any sort of authority loud or silent on a matter?

all the best
 
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Christ will never be proud to reject to be a slave to God , nor the angels who are near ( to God ) .....holy Quran, chapter Women , 4: 172

recitation:http://quran.jalisi.com

May I ask a question - the above quote which came from the previous poster has raised my curiosity.

Does this quote indicate that Angels are part of Islam , as I was always taught that they were the preserve of Christianity
 
Salaam/Peace;

Does this quote indicate that Angels are part of Islam , as I was always taught that they were the preserve of Christianity

yes,it's a must for us to believe in angels . Woow , Another similarity between Islam & Christianity :)

few related verses :

And (remember) when your Lord said to the angels: "Verily, I am going to place (mankind) generations after generations on earth." They said: "Will You place therein those who will make mischief therein and shed blood, - while we glorify You with praises and thanks (Exalted be You above all that they associate with You as partners) and sanctify You." He (Allah) said: "I know that which you do not know."

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #30)

Whoever is an enemy to Allah, His angels, His Messengers, Jibrael (Gabriel) and Mikael (Michael), then verily, Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers."

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #98)

And their Prophet (Samuel ) said to them: Verily! The sign of His Kingdom is that there shall come to you At-Taboot (a wooden box), wherein is Sakinah (peace and reassurance) from your Lord and a remnant of that which Musa (Moses) and Haroon (Aaron) left behind, carried by the angels. Verily, in this is a sign for you if you are indeed believers.

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #248)
 
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Where is Hagar's story to be found in Islamic literature? I did a search and found no record of it in the Qur'an. And in the Hadith I found no reference to her status as an Egyptian princess, but only that she had been given to Sarah (in one story) by a town or (in another) by a tyrannt.
 
Go to the library and get some books as advised above on Egypt during the Predynastic/Thinite era!
google is a search engine not a library!

the point is made and referenced amazingly enough from a non-islamic source and if you paste just the same in google you'll get hundreds of others sources then that should suffice, anything else for your sermons carry out on your own private time!

all the best
 
Go to the library and get some books as advised above on Egypt during the Predynastic/Thinite era!
google is a search engine not a library!

the point is made and referenced amazingly enough from a non-islamic source and if you paste just the same in google you'll get hundreds of others sources then that should suffice, anything else for your sermons carry out on your own private time!

all the best
Thank-you for your advice. Now, are there any other replies?

As I said, I did a search of the Qur'an and Hadith. The search engine I used was NOT google but www.searchtruth.com. As I said, I was looking for specifically Islamic sources. I'm just asking questions, looking for the source of this belief that appears to be commonly held in Islam, but so far not found by me in either the Qur'an or the Hadith.


Perhaps I need to change the question:
If something isn't to be found in the scriptures of Islam, but Muslims still believe it, on what basis is it that Muslims accept it as true?
 
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alot of 'islamic sources' are obviously not translated into English .. a whole encyclopedia of sheikh sha3rawy still remains in Arabic.. the problem isn't in your wanting an Islamic source as one source or two sources should have sufficed you.. it is that you have no desire to accept in the information given you, even if it came to you courtesy of a Jewish source, and I guarantee if I enclosed an Islamic source you'd deem it biased...

write in Arabic an see what comes up, one of the first things that came up when I wrote hagar in Arabic was this:


لماذا يزيف تاريخ مصر القديمة؟



معضلة كتابة التاريخ -المصريين وكتابة تاريخهم - تاريخ مصر القديمة بين الحقائق والشبهات


Keywords

معضلة كتابة التاريخ عموما
تاريخ مصر يقاوم التزييف
عناصر الحدث التاريخي إنسان وزمان ومكان والحدث التاريخي لا يتكرر ولا يعيد التاريخ نفسه ولكن تتشابه الأحداث التاريخية فاليوم الذي يذهب لا يعود وهذا مثل بسيط فريقان يلعبان الكرة والنتيجة واحد صفر لأحدهما وبعد فترة نفس الفريقان ونفس الحكم وعلى نفس الملعب ونفس الجمهور ونفس النتيجة فلا يعني أن التاريخ أعاد نفسه فالزمن مختلف بين أمس واليوم وغدا وشتان مابين الحقائق والأكاذيب ولو جاء كاذب وغير النتيجة يوما غدا يفضح ويكشفها غيره وتطلب كتابة التاريخ الإلمام بمناهج البحث في التاريخ والموضوعية والنقد و.....أشياء كثيرة لا تتوفر في غير المؤرخ ولا تتوفر في كل أدعياء كتابة التاريخ لإثارة الفتن والإنقسام فلا يجب أن نصدق كل من هب ودب وأدعى أنه مؤرخ وراح يحرف ويزور في التاريخ وبعد النظريات ترى أن الحدث التاريخي هو الذي يمر عليه نصف قرن ليتمكن المؤرخ من الوصول الحقائق والوثائق ويعلن عن حقائق يكون أصحابها قد توفاهم الله أما الأحداث الجارية فمجال دراستها العلوم السياسية وليس علم التاريخ ودائما ما يخيب سعي مزوري التاريخ ومزيفي الحقائق وتفضح مخططهم بمجرد ذكر الحقائق
المصريين وكتابة تاريخهم

شاء حظ المصريين العثر أن يكتب معظم فترات تاريخهم أعدائهم وبعض الكاذبين محترفي تغيير الكلم عن مواضعه فضلوا وأضلوا أمثال أبو الأباطيل هيرودوت والذي قال عن المغرضون أبو التاريخ وقليل هم المؤرخين المصريين الوطنيين أمثال مانيتون في العصر القديم وأكثر فترات التاريخ المصري القديم غموضا هي فترة التاريخ الفرعوني فلقد قدم الغير موضوعيين من المؤرخين الغربيين التاريخ المصري وخاصة الناحية الدينية على هواهم فأبرزوا على أنه تاريخ لتعدد الآلهة والوثنية ودعوا لإحياء النزعة الفرعونية واغفلوا تاريخ أنبياء مصر دعاة الوحدانية عن عمد فلا يكادوا يذكرون تاريخ نبي الله إدريس الذيع حرف اسمه لأزوريس وأنبياء الله إبراهيم ويعقوب ويوسف وموسى وهارون ويوشع بن نون وزارها نبي الله عيسى بن مريم وأمه وهوصغيرا وإلى حاكمها من قبل الرومان قيرس جاءت رسالة خاتم رسل الله محمد صلى الله عليه وسلم هذا عن تاريخ مصر مع من نعلم من الأنبياء وعاش بها من الموحدين الكثيرأمثال مؤمن آل فرعون وماشطة ابنة فرعون وإمرة فرعون وسحرة فرعون و... لم يشار لهؤلاء إلا قليلا

وعن أعدائهم نقل المصريين تاريخهم وصدقوهم وبصموا على أقوالهم وكذلك قسموا خط التاريخ على أساس معرفة الإنسان للكتابة وكأن آدم أبو البشر الذي علمه الله كل شيء كان لا يعلم الكتابة وكأن نبي الله إدريس لم يعلم المصريين شيئا وادعوا أن أول الفراعنة دعاة التوحيد أخناتون وهذا أفك مبين فهل ظل المصريين أيام ما قبل الأسرات وعصر الدولة القديمة والوسطى وما بينهم من فترات احتلال بلا معرفة بالتوحيد حتى عصر أخناتون الذي جاء في الدولة الحديثة هذه نماذج من الأباطيل التي اعتبرت مسلمات في التاريخ المصري القديم وهذا قليل من كثير وما يقال عن التاريخ القديم يقال على الوسيط والحديث فشعب ودولة احتلت آلاف السنين ليس غريبا أن يحرف محتلوها تاريخها
تاريخ مصر القديمة بين الحقائق والشبهات
تزييف تاريخ عصور ما قبل الوحدة السياسية التاريخية التي تمت منذ حوالي 5200 عام (ما يعرف بسكان مصر الأول بعد الطوفان) والذين سكنوها قبل قوم فرعون و مصر في العصر المطير ما يعرف عند البعض بحضارة قوم عاد والتي امتدت من المحيط للخليج وزيف التاريخ الفرعوني ونهبت الآثار وخفيت برديات التوحيد وأظهر كتاب الموتى والأساطير وكتاب أخناتون الذي كتب تاريخه بعد وفاته أعدائه كهنة أمون أعداء التوحيد وبعض الملوك أمثال رمسيس الثاني كان يمحو أسماء الملوك السابقين ويضع اسمه كمثل من يزيل لوحة افتتاح مصلحة في عصر رئيس ويغيرها لأسمه ولعل تأريخ المصريين بفترة حكم ملوكهم زاد من صعوبة حساب الزمن فكانت كتابتهم في السنة كذا من حكم الفرعون فلان وعان المصريين القدماء من الاحتلال في تاريخهم القديم والوسيط والحديث فقد جاء من الشرق البدو الفرس والعراقيين وشعوب البحر واليونان والرومان لاحتلال مصر وتخللت فترات الاحتلال الحكم الوطني فبعد عصر الدولة القديمة حكم البلاد البدو القدمين من الشرق وفي عهد أحدهم المسمى النمرود بن كنعان شرفت مصر بزيارة خليل الرحمن وزوجة السيدة سارة ومنها تزوج السيدة هاجر المصرية وبعد عصر الدولة الوسطى احتل الهكسوس مصر وفي عصرهم شرفت مصر باستقبال نبي الله يوسف الذي تربى وسجن واستوزر في مصر واستقدم سيدنا يعقوب إسرائيل وأسباطه وانظر لدقة التعبير القرآني عند الحديث عن حاكم مصر المحتل يقول عليه الملك في سياق عرض أحسن القصص وعند الحديث عن حاكم مصر الوطني يسميه فرعون عند معرض الحديث عن قصة نبي الله موسى الذي والد في مصر هو أخيه هارون وتربى في قصر فرعون ولماذا لا يعتد بالكتب المقدسة كمصادر عند كتابة تاريخ مصر القديمة وخاصة القرآن فمن أصدق من الله قيلا ومن أصدق من الله حديثا وكفى مصر شرف أن وردت بهذا الاسم بالكتب المقدسة وورد غيرها على أنه مدن وقرى دلالة على استمرار وبقاء وحدتها إلى أن يرث الله الأرض وما عليها ولهذا أطلق القدماء على مصر أم الدنيا واعتبروا ما عداها ديشرت ووضعوا اسم حاكمها الفرعون داخل خرطوش يرمز لأنه حاكم الكون فوحدة مصر على ضفاف النيل هبة من الله فمصر هبة الله وليست لا هبة النيل ولا هبة المصريين فأرض مصر ونيلها وناسها ملك لله ومهما يطول بها الاحتلال يذهب مع الزمن وتظل مصر للمصريين وتتحقق نبوءة صانع الفخار الذي تنبأ من قرنين ونصف بخروج المحتل وعودة الحكم الوطني وقد تحقق حلمه أم المفترون على تاريخ مصر والمزيفون للتاريخ الوسيط والحديث والقائلون بأن مصر تحت الاحتلال العربي فنقول لهم مصر يحكمها المصريين ولن يعود الزمن للوراء ولن يحدث بمصر انقسام فالذي سماها مصر هو خالقها ووعده الحق أن الأرض يرثها عباد الله الصالحون ولسوف تكشف المقالات التي يكتبها المصريين عن تاريخهم والمصريين تعني المسلمين والمسيحيين أبناء البلد الذين لا يخدعهم صهيوني ولا صليبي ولا إرهابي ولا منافق ولا علماني فكلمة قبطي تعني مصري يعيش في دولتة الوطنية الموحدة الذي تحول معظم أبنائها المصريين مع الزمن لدين الإسلام ونطقوا العربية لغة القرآن وظل بعضهم على مسيحيته وهذا لا يعني أنهم محتلون للبلاد فهم أبنائها ولن يتركوها ويذهبوا لجزيرة العرب إن كانوا مسلمين أويذهبوا لفلسطين إن كانوا مسيحيين من حيث أتى القديس مرقس كما يدعي الكاذبون دعاة الفرقة والفتنة والكذب وتمزيق الوحدة والإفتراء على التاريخ والتضليل بالأباطيل أحفاد هيردوت فقط الذين ذهبوا وتركوها اليهود ليتصهينوا في فلسطين من أجل قدر معلوم ويوما عادوا ليقتلوا في سيناء أبناء مصر نصارى ومسلمين ويحتلوها ثم هزموا وعادوا خائبين ثم يلتفون علينا ليذيفوا التاريخ فمن صدقهم فهو منهم وليس من المصريين







http://knol.google.com/k/-/-/33rcxugjer8w8/111#
 
alot of 'islamic sources' are obviously not translated into English .. a whole encyclopedia of sheikh sha3rawy still remains in Arabic.. the problem isn't in your wanting an Islamic source as one source or two sources should have sufficed you.. it is that you have no desire to accept in the information given you, even if it came to you courtesy of a Jewish source, and I guarantee if I enclosed an Islamic source you'd deem it biased...

write in Arabic an see what comes up, one of the first things that came up when I wrote hagar in Arabic was this:
Which I grant you is an Islamic source, but isn't it also just a modern blog? I'm curious where this story, if it didn't originate in the Qur'an or the Hadith, did originate? Is it just a Jewish folktale adopted by Muslims? Does it have a source in the Hadith or the Qur'an that I haven't found yet?

M, you do me an injustice when you suggest (no you guaranteed) that I would be biased. I'm just trying to find out the roots of this story that seems so important to Islamic beliefs. I know it isn't in the Bible. I can't find it in the Qur'an. And I did search in both English and in transliterated Arabic and just got modern day writings that told the same old stories, but with no more citations than that bit of Jewish Midrash that you've already provided. And yet that is both the most authoritative and the most ancient source that has been identified thus far. Is that as good as it gets?

Perhaps others are able to add more information?
 
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Which I grant you is an Islamic source, but isn't it also just a modern blog? I'm curious where this story, if it didn't originate in the Qur'an or the Hadith, did originate? Is it just a Jewish folktale adopted by Muslims? Does it have a source in the Hadith or the Qur'an that I haven't found yet?

M, you do me an injustice when you suggest (no you guaranteed) that I would be biased. I'm just trying to find out the roots of this story that seems so important to Islamic beliefs. I know it isn't in the Bible. I can't find it in the Qur'an. You gave a reference to a bit of Jewish Midrash -- which are the commentaries of Jewish rabbis from a much later date than the origins of the Biblical story about Hagar. And yet that is both the most authoritative and the most ancient source that has been identified thus far. Is that as good as it gets?

Perhaps others are able to add information that you either can't or won't?

Is it a modern blog? seems like a new paper column, what difference would that make?
further, Egypt's history is well preserved outside of religion, you need not go to either an Islamic or Jewish source on the matter, all you need to do is research history books on the two time periods I have given. Egypt had an extensive history before the Hebrews were there.. indeed I have many sources, but what I have provided above is more than sufficient!

all the best
 
Is it a modern blog? seems like a new paper column, what difference would that make?
further, Egypt's history is well preserved outside of religion, you need not go to either an Islamic or Jewish source on the matter, all you need to do is research history books on the two time periods I have given. Egypt had an extensive history before the Hebrews were there.. indeed I have many sources, but what I have provided above is more than sufficient!

all the best

Agreed, there is a good bit of Egyptian history, well preserved, and well established, that has nothing to do with any modern religion. The thing is that I am not aware of any mention of Princess Hagar being given to either Abraham or Sarah in any of that material. If someone is, I would like to have the reference so that I can go and look at it. It would be interesting. But I'm not going to find it in the my local library, of that I can assure you. So, I need the name of the reference work so that I can ask for them to get it for me.
 
Agreed, there is a good bit of Egyptian history, well preserved, and well established, that has nothing to do with any modern religion. The thing is that I am not aware of any mention of Princess Hagar being given to either Abraham or Sarah in any of that material. If someone is, I would like to have the reference so that I can go and look at it. It would be interesting. But I'm not going to find it in the my local library, of that I can assure you. So, I need the name of the reference work so that I can ask for them to get it for me.


give them this reference:

السيدة هاجرعليها السلام في تاريخ مصر القديم​
 
Do you have either an English title for it, the call numbers (preferably Library of Congress, but Dewey Decimal will do if that is all you have), or an ISBN #?
 
you want pure unadulterated Islamic sources, you'll have to go by what is given you above..

or search here:
http://www.dorar.net

and get someone to translate for you what was already sourced and written in English.

all the best
 
Since I've already communicated that I'll need other information to get it sent to my local library for access, I can best guess that you're not really intending to be helpful.

But thanks for wishing me "all the best" even though you don't seem serious enough to actually offer your best.
 
I have extended myself above and beyond the call of duty actually you should rather ask yourself why no source provided is satisfactory before deciding that no one has offered you their best-- from where I am standing the psychology behind your dismay is obvious.

all the best indeed...
 
So, as I already said a page ago:

Thank-you for your advice. Now, are there any other replies?
 

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