Things in Islam I am curious about...

How can a translation count as a different version?
Then why do Muslims continue to cite the existence of the KJV, NIV, RSV, NRSV, NASB, etc. as if they are each different versions. They are in fact only translations. How can a translation count as a different version?
 
it wouldn't matter of versions or translations when the books themselves are wrought with errors!


Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.
LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.
Who was at the Empty Tomb? Is it:

MAT 28:1 In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
MAR 16:1 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
JOH 20:1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.
Is Jesus equal to or lesser than?

JOH 10:30 I and my Father are one.
JOH 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
Which first--beasts or man?

GEN 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
GEN 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
The number of beasts in the ark

GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, GEN 7:9 There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
How many stalls and horsemen?

1KI 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
2CH 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.
Is it folly to be wise or not?

PRO 4:7 Wisdom is the principal thing; therefore get wisdom: and with all thy getting get understanding.
ECC 1:18 For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow.
1CO 1:19: "For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."
Human vs. ghostly impregnation

ACT 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
MAT 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
The sins of the father

ISA 14:21 Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.
DEU 24:16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.
The bat is not a bird

LEV 11:13 And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among the fowls; they shall not be eaten, they are an abomination: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
LEV 11:14 And the vulture, and the kite after his kind;
LEV 11:15 Every raven after his kind;
LEV 11:16 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
LEV 11:17 And the little owl, and the cormorant, and the great owl,
LEV 11:18 And the swan, and the pelican, and the gier eagle,
LEV 11:19 And the stork, the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
DEU 14:11 Of all clean birds ye shall eat.
DEU 14:12 But these are they of which ye shall not eat: the eagle, and the ossifrage, and the ospray,
DEU 14:13 And the glede, and the kite, and the vulture after his kind,
DEU 14:14 And every raven after his kind,
DEU 14:15 And the owl, and the night hawk, and the cuckow, and the hawk after his kind,
DEU 14:16 The little owl, and the great owl, and the swan,
DEU 14:17 And the pelican, and the gier eagle, and the cormorant,
DEU 14:18 And the stork, and the heron after her kind, and the lapwing, and the bat.
Rabbits do not chew their cud

LEV 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you.
"Gerah," the term which appears in the MT means (chewed) cud, and also perhaps grain, or berry (also a 20th of a sheckel, but I think that we can agree that that is irrelevant here). It does *not* mean dung, and there is a perfectly adequate Hebrew word for that, which could have been used. Furthermore, the phrase translated "chew the cud" in the KJV is more exactly "bring up the cud." Rabbits do not bring up anything; they let it go all the way through, then eat it again. The description given in Leviticus is inaccurate, and that's that. Rabbits do eat their own dung; they do not bring anything up and chew on it.
Snails do not melt

PSA 58:8 As a snail which melteth, let every one of them pass away: like the untimely birth of a woman, that they may not see the sun.
Fowl from waters or ground?

GEN 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.
GEN 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
GEN 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Odd genetic engineering

GEN 30:39 And the flocks conceived before the rods, and brought forth cattle ringstraked, speckled, and spotted.
The shape of the earth

ISA 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:
MAT 4:8 Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
Astronomical bodies are spherical, and you cannot see the entire exterior surface from anyplace. The kingdoms of Egypt, China, Greece, Crete, sections of Asia Minor, India, Maya (in Mexico), Carthage (North Africa), Rome (Italy), Korea, and other settlements from these kingdoms of the world were widely distributed.
Snakes, while built low, do not eat dirt

GEN 3:14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
Earth supported?

JOB 26:7 He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing.
JOB 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Heaven supported too

JOB 26:11 The pillars of heaven tremble and are astonished at his reproof.
The hydrological cycle

ECC 1:7 All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
JOB 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Storehouses are not part of the cycle
Order of creation

Here is the order in the first (Genesis 1), the Priestly tradition:
Day 1: Sky, Earth, light
Day 2: Water, both in ocean basins and above the sky(!)
Day 3: Plants
Day 4: Sun, Moon, stars (as calendrical and navigational aids)
Day 5: Sea monsters (whales), fish, birds, land animals, creepy-crawlies (reptiles, insects, etc.)
Day 6: Humans (apparently both sexes at the same time)
Day 7: Nothing (the Gods took the first day off anyone ever did)
Note that there are "days," "evenings," and "mornings" before the Sun was created. Here, the Deity is referred to as "Elohim," which is a plural, thus the literal translation, "the Gods." In this tale, the Gods seem satisfied with what they have done, saying after each step that "it was good."
The second one (Genesis 2), the Yahwist tradition, goes:
Earth and heavens (misty)
Adam, the first man (on a desolate Earth)
Plants
Animals
Eve, the first woman (from Adam's rib)
How orderly were things created?
#1: Step-by-step. The only discrepancy is that there is no Sun or Moon or stars on the first three "days."
#2: God fixes things up as he goes. The first man is lonely, and is not satisfied with animals. God finally creates a woman for him. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)
How satisfied with creation was he?
#1: God says "it was good" after each of his labors, and rests on the seventh day, evidently very satisfied.
#2: God has to fix up his creation as he goes, and he would certainly not be very satisfied with the disobedience of that primordial couple. (funny thing that an omniscient god would forget things)
Moses' personality

NUM 12:3: "Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the fact of the earth."
NUM 31:14, 17, 18: "And Moses was wroth...And Moses said unto them, "Have ye saved all the women alive? ... Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman, ... But all the women children ... keep alive for yourselves."
Righteous live?

PSA 92:12: "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree."
ISA 57:1: "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart."
ACT 1:18: "Now this man (Judas) purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out."
MAT 27:5-7: "And he (Judas) cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself. And the chief priests...bought with them the potter's field."
Jesus' first sermon plain or mount?

MAT 5:1,2: "And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him: And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying...."

LUK 6:17,20: "And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people...came to hear him.. And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples and said..."
Jesus' last words

MAT 27:46,50: "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, "Eli, eli, lama sabachthani?" that is to say, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?" ...Jesus, when he cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost."
LUK 23:46: "And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, "Father, unto thy hands I commend my spirit:" and having said thus, he gave up the ghost."
JOH 19:30: "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, "It is finished:" and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost."
Years of famine

II SAMUEL 24:13: So God came to David, and told him, and said unto him, shall SEVEN YEARS OF FAMINE come unto thee in thy land? or will thou flee three months before thine enemies, while they pursue. thee?
I CHRONICLES 21:11: SO God came to David, and said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Choose thee. Either THREE YEARS OF FAMINE or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee;
Moved David to anger?

II SAMUEL 24: And again the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel, and he moved David against them to say, Go, number Israel and Judah.
I CHRONICLES 21: And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.
The GENEALOGY OF JESUS?

In two places in the New Testament the genealogy of Jesus son of Mary is mentioned. MAT 1:6-16 and LUK 3:23-31. Each gives the ancestors of Joseph the CLAIMED husband of Mary and Step father of Jesus. The first one starts from Abraham(verse 2) all the way down to Jesus. The second one from Jesus all the way back to Adam. The only common name to these two lists between David and Jesus is JOSEPH, How can this be true? and also How can Jesus have a genealogy when all Muslims and most Christians believe that Jesus had/has no father.
God be seen?

EXO 24:9,10; AMO 9:1; GEN 26:2; and JOH 14:9
God CAN be seen:
"And I will take away my hand, and thou shalt see my backparts." (EXO 33:23)
"And the Lord spake to Moses face to face, as a man speaketh to his friend." (EXO 33:11)
"For I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved." (GEN 32:30)
God CANNOT be seen:
"No man hath seen God at any time." (JOH 1:18)
"And he said, Thou canst not see my face; for there shall no man see me and live." (EXO 33:20)
"Whom no man hath seen nor can see." (1TIM 6:16)
CRUEL, UNMERCIFUL, DESTRUCTIVE, and FEROCIOUS or KIND, MERCIFUL, and GOOD:

"I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy." (JER 13:14) "Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not, but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling."
"The Lord is very pitiful and of tender mercy." (JAS 5:11)
"For his mercy endureth forever." (1CH 16:34)
"The Lord is good to all, and his tender mercies are over all his works." (PSA 145:9)
"God is love." (1JO 4:16)
Tempts?

"And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham." (GEN 22:1)
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God; for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man." (JAS 1:13)
Judas died how?

"And he cast down the pieces of silver into the temple and departed, and went out and hanged himself." (MAT 27:5)
"And falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all of his bowels gushed out." (ACT 1:18)
Ascend to heaven

"And Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." (2KI 2:11)
"No man hath ascended up to heaven but he that came down from heaven, ... the Son of Man." (JOH 3:13)
What was Jesus' prediction regarding Peter's denial?

Before the cock crow - MAT 26:34
Before the cock crow twice - MAR 14:30
How many times did the cock crow?

MAR 14:72 And the second time the cock crew. And Peter called to mind the word that Jesus said unto him, Before the cock crow twice, thou shalt deny me thrice. And when he thought thereon, he wept.
MAT 26:74 Then began he to curse and to swear, saying, I know not the man. And immediately the cock crew.
MAT 26:75 And Peter remembered the word of Jesus, which said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice. And he went out, and wept bitterly.
LUK 22:60 And Peter said, Man, I know not what thou sayest. And immediately, while he yet spake, the cock crew.
LUK 22:61 And the Lord turned, and looked upon Peter. And Peter remembered the word of the Lord, how he had said unto him, Before the cock crow, thou shalt deny me thrice.
JOH 13:38 Jesus answered him, Wilt thou lay down thy life for my sake? Verily, verily, I say unto thee, The cock shall not crow, still thou hast denied me thrice.
JOH 18:27 Peter then denied again: and immediately the cock crew.
How many beatitudes in the Sermon on the Mount

MAT 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
MAT 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
MAT 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
MAT 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
MAT 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
MAT 5:9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
MAT 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
MAT 5:11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
LUK 6:20 And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
LUK 6:21 Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.
LUK 6:22 Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company, and shall reproach you, and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake.
LUK 6:23 Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy: for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.
Does every man sin?

1KI 8:46 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man that sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them to the enemy, so that they carry them away captives unto the land of the enemy, far or near;
2CH 6:36 If they sin against thee, (for there is no man which sinneth not,) and thou be angry with them, and deliver them over before their enemies, and they carry them away captives unto a land far off or near;
PRO 20:9 Who can say, I have made my heart clean, I am pure from my sin?
ECC 7:20 For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not.
JO1 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
JO1 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
JO1 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
JO1 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Who bought potter's field

ACT 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
ACT 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
MAT 27:6 And the chief priests took the silver pieces, and said, It is not lawful for to put them into the treasury, because it is the price of blood.
MAT 27:7 And they took counsel, and bought with them the potter's field, to bury strangers in.
MAT 27:8 Wherefore that field was called, The field of blood, unto this day.
Who prophesied the potter's field?

MAT 27:9-10 (mentions Jeremy but no such verse in Jeremiah) is in Zechariah 11:12-13
Who bears guilt?

GAL 6:2 Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
GAL 6:5 For every man shall bear his own burden.
Do you answer a fool?

PRO 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.
PRO 26:5 Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit.
How many children did Michal, the daughter of Saul, have?

2SA 6:23 Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.
2SA 21:8 But the king took the two sons of Rizpah the daughter of Aiah, whom she bare unto Saul, Armoni and Mephibosheth; and the five sons of Michal the daughter of Saul, whom she brought up for Adriel the son of Barzillai the Meholathite:
How old was Jehoiachin when he began to reign?

2KI 24:8 Jehoiachin was eighteen years old when he began to reign, and he reigned in Jerusalem three months. And his mother's name was Nehushta, the daughter of Elnathan of Jerusalem.
2CH 36:9 Jehoiachin was eight years old when he began to reign, and he reigned three months and ten days in Jerusalem: and he did that which was evil in the sight of the LORD.
Marriage?

Proverbs 18:22
1 Corinthians 7 (whole book. See 1,2,27,39,40)
Did those with Saul/Paul at his conversion hear a voice?

ACT 9:7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.
ACT 22:9 And they that were with me saw indeed the light, and were afraid; but they heard not the voice of him that spake to me.
Where was Jesus three days after his baptism?

MAR 1:12 And immediately the spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
JOH 1:35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples;
(various traipsings)
How many apostles were in office between the resurrection and ascension?

1 Corinthians 15:5 (12)
MAT 27:3-5 (minus one from 12)
ACT 1:9-26 (Mathias not elected until after resurrection)
MAT 28:16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
Judging

1 Cor 2:15 "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" (NIV)
1 Cor 4:5 "Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God."
Good deeds

Matt 5:16 "In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." (NIV)
Matt 6:3-4 "But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." (NIV)
For or against?

MAT 12:30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
(default is against)
MAR 9:40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
(default is for)
LUK 9:50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
(default is for)
Whom did they see at the tomb?

MAT 28:2 And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
MAT 28:3 His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
MAT 28:4 And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
MAT 28:5 And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
MAR 16:5 And entering into the sepulchre, they saw a young man sitting on the right side, clothed in a long white garment; and they were affrighted.
LUK 24:4 And it came to pass, as they were much perplexed thereabout, behold, two men stood by them in shining garments:
JOH 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
God change?

MAL 3:6
JAS 1:17
1SA 15:29
JON 3:10
GEN 6:6
Destruction of cities (what said was jeremiah was zechariah)

MAT 27:9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
ZEC 11:11-13 (Note: There is nothing in Jeremiah remotely like this.)
Who's sepulchers

ACT 7:16
GEN 23:17,18
Strong drink?

PRO 31:6,7
JOH 2:11-11
When second coming?

MAT 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
MAR 13:30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.
LUK 21:32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.
(See also 1TH 4:15-18)
Solomon's overseers

1KI 9:23 550
2CH 8:10 250
The mother of Abijah:

2CH 11:20 Maachah the daughter of Absalom
2CH 13:2 Michaiah the daughter of Uriel
When did Baasha die?

1KI 16:6-8 26th year of the reign of Asa
2CH 16:1 36th year of the reign of Asa
How old was Ahaziah when he began to reign?

2KI 8:26 22
2CH 22:2 42
Who was Josiah's successor?

2CH 36:1 Jehoahaz
JER 22:11 Shallum
The differences in the census figures of Ezra and Nehemiah.

What was the color of the robe placed on Jesus during his trial?

MAT 27:28 scarlet
JOH 19:2 purple
What did they give him to drink?

MAT 27:34 vinegar
MAR 15:23 wine with myrrh
How long was Jesus in the tomb?

Depends where you look; MAT 12:40 gives Jesus prophesying that he will spend "three days and three nights in the heart of the earth," and MAR 10:34 has "after three days (meta treis emeras) he will rise again." As far as I can see from a quick look, the prophecies have "after three days," but the post-Resurrection narratives have "on the third day."
References

The King James version of the Bible.
Self-Contradictions of the Bible by William Henry Burr (written in 1859 as a response to fundamentalism).
The X-Rated Bible: An Irreverent Survey of Sex in the Scriptures by Ben Edward Akerley
The Bible Handbook. (This is a compilation of several previous works by several authors, including W.P. Ball, G.W. Foote, and John Bowden. It's a collection of biblical contradictions, absurdities, atrocities, immoralities, indecencies, obscenities, unfulfilled prophecies and broken promises. This 372-page volume will give the atheist tons of scriptural ammunition for shooting down the flimsy arguments of the reality impaired.)
Classified Biblical Extracts Or, The Holy Scriptures Analyzed: Showing Its Contradictions, Absurdities And Immoralities by Robert Cooper (originally published in 1840).
DeHaan, M. R.
508 Answers to Bible Questions : with answers to seeming Bible contradictions. Grand Rapids, Mich. : Zondervan, [1968?], c1952.
UCSB Library BS538 .D43 1968
Thaddaeus, Joannes, fl. 1630.
The reconciler of the Bible inlarged : wherein above three thousand seeming contradictions throughout the Old and New Testament are fully and plainly reconciled ... London : Printed for Simon Miller ..., 1662.
Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1052:9.
UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform
Poole, Matthew, 1624-1679.
Annotations upon the Holy Bible. Vol. II : wherein the sacred text is inserted, and various readings annex'd, together with the parallel scriptures : the more difficult terms in each verse are explained... The third edition, with the addition of a new concordance and tables, by Mr. Sam. Clark; the whole corrected and amended by the said Mr. Sam. Clark and Mr. Edward Veale .. London : Printed for Thomas Parkhurst [and 6 others], MDCXCVI [1696].
Series title: Early English books, 1641-1700 ; 1041:1.
UCSD Central MICRO F 524 Current Periodical Microform




all the best
 
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Salaam/Peace


this thread is about Islam , not about Bible or Christianity . Participants , pl. start new threads if necessary or we have threads on Chrisitanity already.
 
it wouldn't matter of versions or translations when the books themselves are wrought with errors!
That may be true, but it doesn't address my question as to why Muslims object to the number of different translations of the Bible that are available, and cite that number as evidence of corruption. You've been one who has posted those listed of all the different Bibles available, what is the point? Please answer aadil77's question: "How can a translation count as a different version?"


Muslim Woman, I believe my question is about Islam. I understand that belief in the corruption of the Biblical text is one of the reasons for Muslim rejecting the teachings of the Bible. And often cited as "proof" is the number of different translations that are out there. This is so common, that it seems to go unquestioned that just the number of different translations is evidence of corruption. I'm asking for how that thinking is arrived at, especially in light of aadil's wonderful analysis that just because there are a number of different translations that it is not true that there are a number of different versions. So, of what value is such a number for "proving" the corruption of the Bible when it is referring not to different versions, but to different translations? Why do we continue to see people make reference to it? What do they think they are "proving"?
 
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That may be true, but it doesn't address my question as to why Muslims object to the number of different translations of the Bible that are available, and cite that number as evidence of corruption. You've been one who has posted those listed of all the different Bibles available, what is the point? Please answer aadil77's question: "How can a translation count as a different version?"

I am sure they are different versions, during my years in the catholic school, I was warned that your version of the bible isn't only corrupted but missing quite a bit, I have no reason to doubt that the other christians who undoubtedly view you as heretics do indeed have a different version of the bible and considering how many different sects there are and they are numerous it makes perfect sense that each use their own interpretation and their own version!

all the best
 
Then why do Muslims continue to cite the existence of the KJV, NIV, RSV, NRSV, NASB, etc. as if they are each different versions. They are in fact only translations. How can a translation count as a different version?

If those bible versions are counted as only as translations, then why:

1. they have wildly different meanings in many verses?
2. where is the original?

You can only have a translation if there is an original one, like the Qur'an.
 
I am curious as to why Muslims think it is so significant that there are so many different versions of the Bible? There is only one version of the Qur'an because Islam refuses to recognize translations as versions. We accept that a translation into English or Spanish or Chinese or Russian or even Arabic can be still be called the Bible even though it is just a translation.

You are such a disingenous person.

Muslims read the Qur'an (yes, for you that would be the one in the arabic text). Some non-arabic speaking muslims who can't understand arabic read the translation and tafseer to help understanding the verses. Like me for example. But I still read and recite the Qur'an regularly.

If you insist in calling those thousands of bible versions as merely translations, show me christians who read the bible (the original one, written in aramaic or hebrew or whatever language the orginal one was written).
 
Nevertheless, you may be interested in the Dead Sea Scrolls. They're the earliest parchments of the Bible we have, and if the Islamic claim that the Biblical texts have been corrupted are true, they we corrupted very, very early on in Church history, as the Scrolls correspond to the Biblical text we have today.

Saul of tarsus and the ilks lived in the early early period of christian church history, didn't they?
 
You are such a disingenous person.

Muslims read the Qur'an (yes, for you that would be the one in the arabic text). Some non-arabic speaking muslims who can't understand arabic read the translation and tafseer to help understanding the verses. Like me for example. But I still read and recite the Qur'an regularly.

If you insist in calling those thousands of bible versions as merely translations, show me christians who read the bible (the original one, written in aramaic or hebrew or whatever language the orginal one was written).

They are yet to agree on the language spoken by their alleged 'god' to speak of an original bible in an original format!
four or five scholars disagree on Jesus (p) spoken language, one goes so far to say that he spoke latin for it is the language of the 'people of heave' imagine that a west asian god with an inferiority complex to the franks, maybe because he was crucified by the jews that he thought the west is better yet didn't see it fit to show up in France or Belgium when he decided to leave the world behind to show up in a remote village in Palestine!

:w:
 
Saul of tarsus and the ilks lived in the early early period of christian church history, didn't they?

I'd be curious to see if the 'dead sea scrolls' spoke of Jesus' alleged divinity.. they throw the terms around.. but question is have they actually read the contents?
 
Re: An advice :)

ask yourself how far you know the Bible..don't ask Muslims how much they know the Bible..obviously they know better than any Christians :). You are the one repeating the unbeliever mantra...1+1+1+=1 ...and you force people to believe it...but none of you can provide a single verse that Jesus pbuh claim he is God .I dare you to provide the evidence within 24 hours.if it doesn't directly say that Jesus pbuh is God..i can argue with u the same way the pastor was arguing with me about what i said in my previous post and he is trying too hard to prove me wrong lol

You first point is either a joke or an absurdity and is deserving of no serious comment - from anyone.

With regard to your second point I don't see how any one can 'force' anyone else to believe anything. Secondly, I guess you will not be satisfied unless the very words YOU want to hear can be found in the Bible and even if they were you would do nothing about it but find yet another reason not to believe. Some verseds you might like to ponder and ask what they mean:

John 14:11 (NIV) Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

John 10:28-34 (NIV) I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."​
 
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Re: An advice :)

Some verseds you might like to ponder and ask what they mean:

John 14:11 (NIV) Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves.

This verse is sometimes used to prove the Trinity, but it proves nothing of the kind. The exact same language about being "in" is used many times of Christians. We assert that when the same exact language is used both of Christ and of Christians, it needs to be understood the same way.
We are "in" Christ, and Christ is "in" us (cp. John 14:4-7; 17:21,23 and 26).
When used in the sense of "in God," or "in Christ," the word "in" refers to a close communion, a tight fellowship. It was part of the covenant language of the day, when people spoke of being either "in" or "cut off from" the covenant.


John 10:28-34 (NIV) I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."

1. There is no reason to take this verse to mean that Christ was saying that he and the Father make up "one God." The phrase was a common one, and even today if someone used it, people would know exactly what he meant - he and his father are very much alike.
When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, "he who plants and he who waters are one" (1 Cor. 3:8 - KJV).
In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up "one being." Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as "he who plants and he who waters have one purpose." Why translate the phrase as "are one" in one place, but as "have one purpose" in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ's statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father's will; he and God have "one purpose."

2.[/B] Christ uses the concept of "being one" in other places, and from them one can see that "one purpose" is what is meant.
John 11:52 says Jesus was to die to make all God's children "one."
In John 17:11, 21 and 22, Jesus prayed to God that his followers would be "one" as he and God were "one." We think it is obvious that Jesus was not praying that all his followers would become one being or "substance" just as he and his Father were one being or "substance." We believe the meaning is clear: Jesus was praying that all his followers be one in purpose just as he and God were one in purpose, a prayer that has not yet been answered.
3. The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did, mean he is the representative of God for Inviting the people towards Worship of God whose he (juses) also worship and towards doing Good Deeds and forbiding from evils.. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the "sheep," the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father's hand. Then he said that he and the Father were "one," i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep.
Buzzard, pp. 135 and 136
Farley, pp. 60 and 61
Morgridge, pp. 39-42
 
In short,

Music is the tool of the devil.

It twists emotions, harden the heart, distracts people from the real purpose of life, leads to things which are forbidden.

Example: a few weeks ago I was in a bad mood, and I happened to end up in the presence of a really annoying slow, sad style song... and it just made me get more emotion even though I was trying to bloke out the sound! It is like a drug in that way.

From what I understand, people use music as a part of worship. I don't understand this at all. People are trying to draw nearer to Allah using the tools of the devil, and what is it that makes them feel closer to Allah, the music or the message? Because you can listen to any kind of music and it is almost guaranteed to effect ones emotions.

closeness to God should be sought through understand and contemplating, not through music...

Greetings and pece be upon you
I have to take issue with your understanding here that music is a tool of satans. I believe that EVERYTHING creatively made is an aspect of God's holy spirit in us how we are made in God's image, All musicical forms are therefore creative including rock music. The only corrupive influences come through the words which can be about anything to take ones mind away from God, but by the same token for the clean (everything is clean) we can easily, by the Grace of God's Holy Ghost, sing in our hearts clean words if we enjoy the tune to worship God, anytime and anywhere. For example I was recently in a club when the chemicl brothers here we go song came on, I was moved to dance and worship God to this music. In my Church musical worship is very powerful and oftne brings the holy spirit fully into our church.
In the Bible we can see that Joshua used trumpets in Jericho, Satan before he rebelled worshipped God musically his clothing swirled as musical instruments.
Bach who devoted ALL his music to God, was incredibly Creative and doubtless understood he had been blessed by God with this great gift.
God loves us, Jesus stated that vain reptitive prayer is not the way. The angels sing in heaven to worship God. Check out Carmans song on ututbe " my God is an awesome God" and see how powereful the words and music are! God loves and to be happily worshipping him through music and dance, God is the Father of Creativity in all aspects that are filled with Love. The only thing the devil can do is try to corrupt thse creative efforts by man. There is also a band called Eternal Decisionon utube who have a song called Hunger. Now to my mother it is nothing but deth metal music but if you take the time to listen to the words or read them elsewhere you will see they are hungry for God!

Dancing leads to fornication? Only if that is already in your heart, if you are strong in your faith and have the Holy spirit inside you and you are not with your spiritual life partner, then such tempataions never arise or if they do are as easy to brush aside as a fly.
God is interested in what is in your heart, what you speak about yorself and what you belive about God and yourself. Words and beliefs are very powerful indeed.
God loves musical worship if it is clean and from the heart

Bless you
 
Re: An advice :)

This verse is sometimes used to prove the Trinity, but it proves nothing of the kind. The exact same language about being "in" is used many times of Christians. We assert that when the same exact language is used both of Christ and of Christians, it needs to be understood the same way. We are "in" Christ, and Christ is "in" us (cp. John 14:4-7; 17:21,23 and 26). When used in the sense of "in God," or "in Christ," the word "in" refers to a close communion, a tight fellowship. It was part of the covenant language of the day, when people spoke of being either "in" or "cut off from" the covenant.

This forces one interpretation on the words. John 14:11 (NIV) "Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves." No one but Jesus would or could say "I am in the father". So clearly it seem to me that he is saying he is the manifestation of the Farther, immanent in each other here he asks the disciples to take his word for it but if they cannot then they should look at his work and miracles. It is true that Christians speak of being "in Christ" but no one understands that to mean that they are the same as Christ.

When Paul wrote to the Corinthians about his ministry there, he said that he had planted the seed and Apollos had watered it. Then he said, "he who plants and he who waters are one" (1 Cor. 3:8 - KJV). In the Greek texts, the wording of Paul is the same as that in John 10:30, yet no one claims that Paul and Apollos make up "one being." Furthermore, the NIV translates 1 Corinthians 3:8 as "he who plants and he who waters have one purpose." Why translate the phrase as "are one" in one place, but as "have one purpose" in another place? In this case, translating the same phrase in two different ways obscures the clear meaning of Christ's statement in John 10:30: Christ always did the Father's will; he and God have "one purpose."

This is an odd interpretation because clearly what Paul is saying is that Paul and Appllos are working in the same cause and in that sense they are one. One can also see in this verse that Paul is alluding perhaps to the fact that it is only God who can really plant and water the seeds. I am unsure why you quote John 10:30 whereas the verse I used was in John 11. You also seem to be under the delusion that the same word or words in every possible context mean exactly the same thing and to do that amounts to heresy because all sense of interpretation has to be abandoned.

3. The context of John 10:30 shows conclusively that Jesus was referring to the fact that he had the same purpose as God did, mean he is the representative of God for Inviting the people towards Worship of God whose he (juses) also worship and towards doing Good Deeds and forbiding from evils.. Jesus was speaking about his ability to keep the "sheep," the believers, who came to him. He said that no one could take them out of his hand and that no one could take them out of his Father's hand. Then he said that he and the Father were "one," i.e., had one purpose, which was to keep and protect the sheep.

I agree that here Jesus is saying that he and the Father have 'one interest" but one cannot assume therefore that "one" means exactly the same everywhere else. Thus here that oneness or essence is not being affirmed, but the the basis of what is affirmed, without which it would not be true.
 
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You are such a disingenous person.
Before you call me disingenuous, ask yourself, do you really care to know the answer to your questions, or are just trying to be argumentative? If you really want to know, I'll be glad to take the time to introduce you to where you can learn the answers for these questions. But you're going to have to accept the reality that there is information available outside of websites sponsors by those with apologetics as their primary goal, and that many of those websites (from all religious persuasions) actually promote disinformation.
 

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