Things in Islam I am curious about...

[aadil77]

When I was first learning about Islam I was told that a mosque was a Muslim church. But I now believe that must have been an over simplification. Generally I don't find mosques in the USA, but "Islamic Religious Centers", and I'm told that even though worship services are held there they are not mosques. I'm told that the proper term also is actually "mashjid".

So, can an American Muslim help clarify this for me. What is the difference between a mosque, a mashjid, and a religious center as one encounters them in the USA?

masjid is the correct term for 'mosque'

don't know about religious center - maybe american muslims use that term to avoid linking it to islam and possibly to avoid discrimination?

 

[Ramadhan]

Normally, a masjid (at least) have these characteristics:
- reguler prayers (daily 5 times shalah) are performed in the masjid
- have an imam who take cares of the masjid and who leads reguler prayers
- shalah jumat (friday prayer) are performed
- organize shalah teraweh during ramadan

a masjid can also have other functions: organize iedul fitri and iedul adha prayers (and the qurbans), organize gorups for qur'an and islamic studies, centre for dakwah activities, organize other social activities, etc.

I'm not sure what islamic religious centres are.

 

[Grace Seeker]

I'm not sure what islamic religious centres are.

The Islamic Religious Centers (some call themselves "Islamic Religious Centers" others simply "Islamic Centers") that I have attended here have included all the elements you described as being part of a masjid, but I had never heard the term "masjid" until I encountered it on this board, though I have seen it since.

Here is one that I have attended: The Islamic Center of the Quad Cities. I see that it uses all three terms in describing itself.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Normally, a masjid (at least) have these characteristics...have an imam who take cares of the masjid and who leads reguler prayers

Is the imam traditionally compensated for this? What type of education is required to become an imam?

 

[anatolian]

There is not a spesific requirement to become an imam in Islam. Actually every muslim, atleast every male muslim, is potentially an imam. But the goverments want to have the control of religous places in the muslim countries so they appoint imams who were educated according to some standarts.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Governments appoint imams? WoW! Time for me to take my head out of the sand. I hadn't even considered that. But, I can see how that might work many places.

What about in the USA, do you know how imams are chosen here? I would assume the local congregation has some sort of council that runs the Islamic Center and they are in charge of selecting their imam. But do they do this through some sort of larger administrative structure that makes recommendations to them, or do they simply have to hustle up their own candidates? What are the qualifications (besides being male) that are looked for?

Also, may I repeat the question as to whether or not imams are compensated?

 

[Woodrow]

Governments appoint imams? WoW! Time for me to take my head out of the sand. I hadn't even considered that. But, I can see how that might work many places.

What about in the USA, do you know how imams are chosen here? I would assume the local congregation has some sort of council that runs the Islamic Center and they are in charge of selecting their imam. But do they do this through some sort of larger administrative structure that makes recommendations to them, or do they simply have to hustle up their own candidates? What are the qualifications (besides being male) that are looked for?

Also, may I repeat the question as to whether or not imams are compensated?

Peace Gene,

Here in the USA (at least in areas I have lived) it is rare for an Imam to be compensated. Although in the larger cities there is a trend on to hire full time paid Imams. The founding and growth of a Masjid is quite simple (Here anyhow). Typically a few Muslims gather together at each other's homes for prayers. The most knowledgeable one is selected to lead the prayers (be the Imam) as the numbers grow often an Islamic society is formed. Next as the community grows an Islamic center is built, the size depending on the amount of donations anticipated and the number of potential people coming for prayers. Often the initial building is at the expense of one or 2 families. Then comes the time for additional duties of the Imam leading prayers, he becomes responsible for things like the educational section (school) upkeep of building maintainence, overall source of information etc. So depending on the size of the community the duties of the Imam can be as little as just leading the Friday prayers or as complex as a college dean maintenance manager, financial adviser and full time minister.

 

[Ramadhan]

Is the imam traditionally compensated for this? What type of education is required to become an imam?

I cannot speak for other countries, but in indonesia, there are literally millions of mosques, and in most mosques, imams are not compensated.

 

[ardianto]

When I was first learning about Islam I was told that a mosque was a Muslim church. But I now believe that must have been an over simplification. Generally I don't find mosques in the USA, but "Islamic Religious Centers", and I'm told that even though worship services are held there they are not mosques. I'm told that the proper term also is actually "mashjid".

So, can an American Muslim help clarify this for me. What is the difference between a mosque, a mashjid, and a religious center as one encounters them in the USA?

Salam, Grace Seeker.

I am not American, but I clarify difference between masjid (mosque) and Islamic Center in Indonesia.
Islamic Center held service that more than pray/worship only. But also Islamic study, Zakat Center, Islamic counseling, Hajj and Umrah guidance, etc.
Islamic Centers have other halls/rooms for that services.

 

[ardianto]

Is the imam traditionally compensated for this? What type of education is required to become an imam?

There is no compensation for Imam who leads prayer, but there is compensation in small amount for Imam who take care Masjid. From my knowledge, many Masjid Imam in Indonesia get less than (equivalent) US$ 30 per month. This is actually semi voluntary job.

There is no specific education for Imam who lead prayer, also there is no specific education for Imam who take care Masjid. But if you ask about "Ulama" (Muslim scholars), of course, Islamic education is required. In Indonesia, there are two level of Ulama. "Junior" level called "Ustadz" (or "Ustadzah for female), and "senior" level called "Kyai Haji (KH)", similar as "Shaykh" in Arabia.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Thanks ardianto and others for your feedback.

If peter ,John etc ..were truly disciples and used such [flawed] exegesis..., then we can safely assume that Jesus was betrayed by his own disciples, presenting his mission in a form that never been intended to be.....

but my believe in the Quran doesn't allow me to buy such concept......... the message of Jesus wasn't betrayed by his disciples (the Quran praised them twice)........

I often hear that Islam teaches that the NT is a corruption of the Injil that Jesus preached. So, it follows, that if you don't believe that Jesus' disciples were the corrupters of his message that they proclaimed a different message than that which we Christians receive as their message today. What does Islam teach was the specific content of that message? And when I say "specific" an answer such as "they taught Islam just like Jesus, Muhammad, and all the other prophets did" would be too general to be helpful. Does Islam even suggest what the content of their message would have been?

 

[Ramadhan]

I often hear that Islam teaches that the NT is a corruption of the Injil that Jesus preached. So, it follows, that if you don't believe that Jesus' disciples were the corrupters of his message that they proclaimed a different message than that which we Christians receive as their message today. What does Islam teach was the specific content of that message? And when I say "specific" an answer such as "they taught Islam just like Jesus, Muhammad, and all the other prophets did" would be too general to be helpful. Does Islam even suggest what the content of their message would have been?

I am sure some people have explained this to you a number of times:

Allah SWT in the qur'an says that previous scriptures (torah, injeel) have been corrupted and changed by wicked rabbis and priests and thus the original messages have been changed.
We also know that the message from God given to the messengers (nabi and rasool) stayed the same from Adam AS to Muhammad SAW.
Therefore, anytime a message in current bible is contrary to the message of Islam, then that particular message did not come from god.
for example: from Adam AS to Muhammad SAW, Allah sent messengers after messengers that taught tawheed (oneness of God), that none is unto him and there is no likeness to him, so if rabbis and priests suddenly claimed "god is one split into three and he replicated himself as a human", then that message is definitely not from god.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Let me reiterate. I am NOT interested in what the disciples DID NOT teach. I am wanting to know what, according to Islam, the disciples did teach. And I am not interested in a generic response, "we know they taught Islam" or "we know they taught oneness". I want to know what the actual message of the disciples was that leads the Muslim to know that that they taught Islam or that they taught oneness.

 

[Danah]

Governments appoint imams? WoW! Time for me to take my head out of the sand. I hadn't even considered that. But, I can see how that might work many places.

Just to clarify that in some countries the process of assigning Imams has to be done according to certain standards. In UAE, for anyone wants to be an Imam he should have some qualifications before he apply for that job. Yeah its the government (General Authority of Islamic Affairs & Endowments) who assign them based on the results of the tests the candidates got by teachers to see if they can recite Quran properly and memorized a certain amount of the Quran as a minimum. Also, they check their way of praying so they will be sure that they will lead Muslims in prayers correctly. Anyone who have the qualifications can apply for the job and they got their salaries directly from the government.

I dunno about other countries

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/ Peace

. Does Islam even suggest what the content of their message would have been?

related verses :


And verily, We have sent among every Ummah (community, nation) a Messenger (proclaiming): "Worship Allah (Alone), and avoid (or keep away from) Taghut (all false deities i.e. do not worship Taghut besides Allah)."

Then of them were some whom Allah guided and of them were some upon whom the straying was justified.

So travel through the land and see what was the end of those who denied (the truth).

chapter 16 , verse 36

And (remember) when We took a covenant from the Children of Israel, (saying): Worship none but Allah (alone) and be dutiful and good to parents, and to kindred, and to orphans and Al-Masakeen (the poor), (Tafsir At-Tabaree, Vol. 10, Page 158 (Verse 9:60)) and speak good to people (i.e. enjoin righteousness and forbid evil, and say the truth about Muhammad Peace be upon him ), and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat.

Then you slid back, except a few of you, while you are backsliders. (Tafsir Al-Qurtubee, Vol. 2, Page 392).

( سورة البقرة , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #83)

And (remember) when Allah took the Covenant of the Prophets, saying: "Take whatever I gave you from the Book and Hikmah (understanding of the Laws of Allah, etc.), and afterwards there will come to you a Messenger (Muhammad SAW) confirming what is with you; you must, then, believe in him and help him."


Allah said: "Do you agree (to it) and will you take up My Covenant (which I conclude with you)?"

They said: "We agree." He said: "Then bear witness; and I am with you among the witnesses (for this)."

( سورة آل عمران , Aal-e-Imran, Chapter #3, Verse #81)

 

[Grace Seeker]

Thank-you Muslim Woman. But even from this, I take it that no Muslim today can testify to the actual words of Jesus let alone his disciples, for this is still generalities and not specifics. And that's OK. I just wanted to be clear on that point. Now, if somebody has something more, more specific, I remain open and hopeful of learning it.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace

.... this is still generalities and not specifics. .

"Worship Allah (Alone) - how come this is not a specific message ??

 

[Grace Seeker]

Salaam/Peace
"Worship Allah (Alone) - how come this is not a specific message ??

Because it doesn't answer all of the basic questions:

Who?
What?
When?
Where?
Why?
and
How?
​

with regard to worshiping Allah.

And because assumably there was a lot more content to their message than just that item. There certainly is more content to the message of Islam today than just "worship Allah alone". In fact, if that was all there was to Islam's messsage today, you could qualify all Christians as Muslims.

 

[Insaanah]

I take it that no Muslim today can testify to the actual words of Jesus let alone his disciples

In the translations of verses from the Qur'an below, I have highlighted the words of Jesus (peace be upon him) in red, and those of the disciples in purple.

And will make him a messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): "Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are to be believers.

And (I come) confirming that which was before me of the Torah, and to make lawful some of that which was forbidden unto you. I come unto you with a sign from your Lord, so fear Allah and obey me.

Lo! Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path."

But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: "Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah?" The disciples said: "We will be Allah's helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear thou witness that we have surrendered (unto Him). Our Lord! We believe in that which Thou hast revealed and we follow him whom Thou hast sent. Enrol us among those who witness (to the truth)". (3:49-53)

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And when I inspired the disciples, (saying): "Believe in Me and in My messenger", they said: "We believe. Bear witness that we are Muslims."

When the disciples said: "O Jesus, son of Mary! Is thy Lord able to send down for us a table spread with food from heaven?" He said: "Fear Allah, if ye are true believers."

(They said: ) "We wish to eat thereof, that we may satisfy our hearts and know that thou hast spoken truth to us, and that thereof we may be witnesses."

Jesus, son of Mary, said: "O Allah, our Lord! Send down for us a table spread with food from heaven, that it may be a feast for us, for the first of us and for the last of us, and a sign from Thee. Give us sustenance, for Thou art the Best of Sustainers."

Allah said: "Lo! I send it down for you. And whoso disbelieves afterwards from amongst you, him surely will I punish with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any of (My) creatures."

And when Allah will say: "O Jesus, son of Mary! Did you say unto mankind: Take me and my mother for two gods beside Allah?"

He will say: "Be Glorified! It was not mine to utter that to which I had no right. If I used to say it, then You knew it. You know what is in my mind, and I know not what is in Your Mind. Lo! You, only You, are the Knower of Things Hidden.

I spoke unto them only that which You commanded me, (saying): Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. I was a witness of them while I dwelt among them, and when You took me, You were the Watcher over them. You are Witness over all things.

If You punish them, lo! they are Your slaves, and if You forgive them (lo! they are Your slaves). Lo! you, only You, are the Mighty, the Wise." (5:111-118)

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They surely disbelieve who say: "Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary." The Messiah (himself) said: "O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord." Lo! whoso ascribes partners unto Allah, for him Allah has forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For the wrong-doers there will be no helpers. (5:72)

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He spoke: "Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He has given me the Scripture and has appointed me a Prophet, and has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive, and (has made me) dutiful toward my mother, and has not made me arrogant, unblest. Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!"

Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt.

It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decrees a thing, He says unto it only: Be! and it is.

[Jesus said],: "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the right path."(19:30-36)

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When Jesus came with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), he said: "I have come unto you with wisdom, and to make plain some of that concerning which ye differ. So fear Allah, and obey me. Lo! Allah, He is my Lord and your Lord. So worship Him. This is a right path."
But the factions among them differed. Then woe unto those who do wrong from the doom of a painful day. (43:63-65)

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And when Jesus son of Mary said: "O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a Messenger to come after me, whose name is the Praised One - Ahmad." Yet when he has come unto them with clear proofs, they say: "This is mere magic." (61:6)

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O ye who believe! Be Allah's helpers, even as Jesus son of Mary said unto the disciples: "Who are my helpers for Allah?" They said: "We are Allah's helpers." And a party of the Children of Israel believed, while a party disbelieved. Then We strengthened those who believed against their foe, and they became the uppermost. (61:14)

Peace.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/Peace;

There certainly is more content to the message of Islam today than just "worship Allah alone". .

worship God Almighty alone - that's the most important message of all the Prophets pbut