Three Shattered Myths - Babr Ahmad

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They shouldn't have a shoot-to-kill policy at all. That's so barabric.
And HeiGou can handle the heat, trust me.
:w:
 
They shouldn't have a shoot-to-kill policy at all. That's so barabric.
You know, the cynic in me says 'hey, psychos calling themselves Muslims and strapping bombs to themselves are pretty barbaric too'.

And HeiGou can handle the heat, trust me.
:w:
The moderator in me says you're getting close to 'beefing' (posting to insult etc) now.
 
Me? Insult HeiGou? Never! And i'm not even being sarcastic. I would never intentionally insult HeiGou. I owe him anyway. He's stuck up for me in the past.
:w:
 
The moderator in me says you're getting close to 'beefing' (posting to insult etc) now.

Well it is not for me to contradict the Moderators or even argue with them. But I do not feel "beefed". I think people's questions are reasonable. I have given out more than I should have in this thread and I do not feel threatened or insulted. I like and respect pretty much everyone in this thread (as much as I might deplore their choice of signature!) and would hate for anyone to get a warning for anything I was involved in.

And I do think Israel's actions often amount to State terrorism. I agree the police should not shoot illegal immigrants. But I can see how geared up they probably were and how easily that slipped over into stupid and unjust violence. The worst thing for me was that the police lied afterwards - I can't forgive that.

But in the end, something has to be done. Nothing I have seen so far impresses me that much, but it is something. If not this, what? I feel sorry for Mr Ahmad, but if he was buying chemical weapon suits, he should not be out on the streets. This needs to be examined by a court of law and soon.
 
And what's wrong with my sig? Look at what it says... the weapon of TRUTH.
 
Yo stop stirring this argument out of control, this is a somewhat constructed debate InshAllah I hope Heigou dont think otherwise and its not very nice undermining the brothers, no-one's going to post abuse hopefully, we are all civilised beings ...i hope laugh out loud, InshAllah maintain mutual respect and continue Peace! x
 
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True sis. I do have respect for HeiGou. I think he knows that (hope so).
And Muezzin, nanananana... see, told you i wasn't beefing!
:w:
 
InshAllah...if there is certain tention it would be beneficial for forum users if the somewhat rift between u fellow beings be sorted out via the personal messaging system JazakAllah Khairun, resume back on topic! Peace! x
 
As far as your statistics goes, feel free to tell your rhetoric to the family of De Menezes, the brazilian shot dead in the head just bcoz some police feels that he is a potential `threat' to the society. I do believe that they will staring with disbelief or perhaps in total rage on your logical statistical conclusions!

If they do, they should perhaps consider the actions of the police in their own country.

Four unarmed young men were shot dead in the community of Borel in Rio de Janeiro during an operation carried out by military police on the afternoon of 16 April. They were Carlos Magno de Oliveira Nascimento (pictured), a student who was in Rio to visit relatives; Everson Gonçalves Silote, a taxi driver; Thiago da Costa Correia da Silva, a mechanic, and Carlos Alberto da Silva Pereira, a painter and builder. Although the precise circumstances that led to the death of the four men are not clear, all the technical evidence and testimony so far indicate that they were summarily executed.

The mother of Carlos Magno de Oliveira Nascimento visited AI in August for the launch of AI's report to mark the 10th anniversaries of the Candelária and Vigário Geral massacres in which eight street children and 21 shanty town residents, all unarmed, were killed by military police.

AI is extremely concerned at the very high levels of police killings in Rio de Janeiro in 2003 and that recent public statements made by politicians in defence of killing criminals appear to have been taken as a "green light" to kill by members of the city’s police forces.

Amnesty International


The De Menezes death was a terrible accident, that may or may not have involved incompetence on the part of officers involved. But it was not a "summary execution", or anything like one.
 
Well if the police shoot you dead, we'll tell them that it's a-okay by you. That's to any one who supports the shoot-to-kill policy!
 
Well if the police shoot you dead, we'll tell them that it's a-okay by you. That's to any one who supports the shoot-to-kill policy!

The fact remains terrorists have killed 56 people and wounded over 700 in Britain. Four more tried to do the same shortly after. The police have shot dead one man. Which is worse?
 
So we're comparing police to terrorists now? Don't they have the opposite role?
 
So we're comparing police to terrorists now? Don't they have the opposite role?

Well it beats calling them terrorists! But seriously, I think everyone would accept that what happened to Mr Ahmad was pretty awful and it is sad that he is sitting in jail. But the police need to protect us, well me, from terrorists. In this case Mr Ahmad was a suspected terrorist, the police took no chances. I do not see what is wrong with that in general terms. They do have an opposite role. The police need to concentrate on bad people who are guilty. Not like the terrorists who murder ordinary people who are innocent.

Still the bottom line remains, what else should the police have done? Had a cup of tea with his wife while he got ready?
 
In case you don't know, terrorists don't sleep with a bomb belt on. There's chance of it exploding while you sleep you see. That was totally unnecssary! The police may not be terrorists, but they did terrorise him. And i'm sure his wife would have been happy to make tea for them.
 
In case you don't know, terrorists don't sleep with a bomb belt on.

Never met a terrorist, I wouldn't know. They might for all I know. They might also keep a loaded gun under the pillow. When the police arrest dangerous people they tend to do so in numbers with vests and without knocking. I still see this as sensible and you have still not told me what the alternative might be.

That was totally unnecssary! The police may not be terrorists, but they did terrorise him.

No they did not. They scared him. They may have roughed him up a little. But their aim was to arrest, not scare. They had no political motives. Why was it totally unecessary?

And i'm sure his wife would have been happy to make tea for them.

I am sure she would but are you suggesting this is a sensible way of arresting terrorist suspects?
 
No, i'm just saying his wife is a nice lady. But let's forget about that for a second. The alternative would have been to just handcuff him after they were able to see his was no threat. I mean, wasn't smashing his head against the window enough to get the upper hand? Or did they have to beat the stuffing out of him too? WHAT PICTURES DID YOU SEE?
Because 'rough him up a little bit' isn't correct.
 
No, i'm just saying his wife is a nice lady. But let's forget about that for a second. The alternative would have been to just handcuff him after they were able to see his was no threat. I mean, wasn't smashing his head against the window enough to get the upper hand? Or did they have to beat the stuffing out of him too? WHAT PICTURES DID YOU SEE?
Because 'rough him up a little bit' isn't correct.

I haven't met his wife either but I'll take your word for it. How would they see that he was no threat without, oh I don't know, physically holding him down and searching him? I assume that after they physically held him down and searched him, they handcuffed him and let him walk out of his house. I assume that the smashing of his head against the window did an excellent job of giving the police the upper hand. But I assume they had a plan to deal with him (which probably went something like, smash the door down, all rush into the house screaming "Police! Get down on the floor", locating Mr Ahmad, throwing him to the floor as quickly as possible, searching him for weapons and explosives, handcuffing him etc etc). As far as I can see they did not beat the stuffing out of him. His injuries were to the side of his face (I guess the window and the floor) and his wrists (I'd say several large policemen twsiting them and force him to the ground). But he may have had other injuries I do not know about. I saw the pictures on cagedinmates.
 
Oh... you obviously haven't seen the pics i've seen! He had so many injuries all around his body. And i wonder how that urine got in his ears. And i wonder what pushing him down into prostration position and saying 'where's your God now?' has to do with anything? Yep, must have been part of the pre prepaired plan.
 
Oh... you obviously haven't seen the pics i've seen! He had so many injuries all around his body. And i wonder how that urine got in his ears. And i wonder what pushing him down into prostration position and saying 'where's your God now?' has to do with anything? Yep, must have been part of the pre prepaired plan.

Actually wasn't that blood that got into his heads (a blow to the head) and blood that got in his urine (a blow to the kidneys)? I know of no way urine can get into your ears although didn't someone have a thread on jinns doing that sort of thing? It must have been. I have no doubts that being arrested by the Anti-Terrorist Squad is a bruising experience. But I still have not heard of any viable alternatives - send him a text message and ask him to come by after lunch?
 
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