To atheists...

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Fishman

Fishman

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:sl:
If you strongly deny that the Quran is a true revelation, then you have to have some idea of what a true revelation is like. What do you believe that that a true revelation should and shouldn't contain?
:w:
 
Fishman said:
:sl:
If you strongly deny that the Quran is a true revelation, then you have to have some idea of what a true revelation is like. What do you believe that that a true revelation should and shouldn't contain?
:w:
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Atheists do not believe in Allah brother. They don't care about a true revelation. It is of least importance to them.
 
abdmez said:
Atheists do not believe in Allah brother. They don't care about a true revelation. It is of least importance to them.
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:sl:
I know that, I used to be one. And if I asked myself this question when I was one, I would not have been able to answer it.
:w:
 
Fishman said:
:sl:
If you strongly deny that the Quran is a true revelation, then you have to have some idea of what a true revelation is like. What do you believe that that a true revelation should and shouldn't contain?
:w:
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Da, If someone does not believe in god, how could they beleve in a revelation from god.
 
wilberhum said:
Da, If someone does not believe in god, how could they beleve in a revelation from god.
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:sl:
I'm not saying that atheists believe in a revelation from God, I'm asking what they think a true revelation would be like. If you do not believe any relelations to be true, then you must know what a true revelation is like.

contary to popular opinion, I do not believe in flying rollerskates with eyes. I know I have not seen any, because I know what a flying rollerskate with eyes looks like. This is a slightly humorous example of what I'm saying.
:w:
 
Greetings,
Alpha Dude said:
He's asking what should a revelation contain in order to classify it as truth, truth that would prove the existence of God.
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God, with his attributes as claimed by the three major monotheistic world religions, can never be proven to exist (almost by definition). He is not open to human observation, and is therefore undetectable. Religious believers sometimes state that they have proof of god's existence, but this is nonsense, in the strictest sense of the word. The question above is like me asking you to say what kind of evidence would be sufficient for you to accept the existence of the invisible pink unicorn.

Peace
 
wilberhum said:
The existance of god is not proveable. The non-existaqnce of god is not proveable.
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:sl:
I agree with your second statement, but not the first. What if you saw Muhammad do all of the miracles that the hadith describe?
:w:
 
Fishman said:
:sl:
I agree with your second statement, but not the first. What if you saw Muhammad do all of the miracles that the hadith describe?
:w:
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My husband is an atheist.
He says that a burning bush (as in the biblical one, through which God spoke to Moses) in the back garden would be enough to convince him of God's existance.
As yet, he has not had the opportunity to see one, though ...
 
czgibson said:
Greetings,
The question above is like me asking you to say what kind of evidence would be sufficient for you to accept the existence of the invisible pink unicorn.
Peace
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:sl:
Bumping into it would be enough for me.

Besides, you can prove beyond reasonable doubt that God exists. Read the Quran (and possibly the authentic hadith) with an unbiased mind.
:w:
 
Greetings,

Well then - I suppose bumping into god would be proof enough for me. But since (according to Muslims) he exists far beyond the world, and is exceptionally lofty, that is not going to happen unless his attributes change.

I've already said that it is not possible to prove god's existence, unless of course you want to introduce a new definition of the word 'prove'.

I've tried reading the Qur'an, but I got stuck at sura 2 verse 62, which seems to me to give rise to an irreconcilable contradiction. Added to that, as I've mentioned before on the forum, I found the Qur'an to be a very dull read, and nothing I've read in it so far has convinced me that it is anything other than the work of human hands.

Peace
 
czgibson said:
Greetings,

Well then - I suppose bumping into god would be proof enough for me. But since (according to Muslims) he exists far beyond the world, and is exceptionally lofty, that is not going to happen unless his attributes change.

I've already said that it is not possible to prove god's existence, unless of course you want to introduce a new definition of the word 'prove'.

I've tried reading the Qur'an, but I got stuck at sura 2 verse 62, which seems to me to give rise to an irreconcilable contradiction. Added to that, as I've mentioned before on the forum, I found the Qur'an to be a very dull read, and nothing I've read in it so far has convinced me that it is anything other than the work of human hands.

Peace
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:sl:
If one of my friends said he was an alien, and did not give me any good evidence, I would reject his claims. But if he gave me an engine from his spaceship, I would consider that proof. Likewise, if someone told me that God existed without giving evidence, then I would reject their claims. But if someone got me a religious book containing miraculous statements (prophecies, scientific foreknowlege etc) and no errors I would consider it proven.

I'm sorry that you have not been guided yet. May Allah show you his signs in the Quran.
:w:
 
Greetings Alpha Dude,
Alpha Dude said:
If you were to find information about everything you possibly ever wanted to know from a book that is claimed to be authored by God, would you then believe in God? Does that not empirically prove the existance of God?
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Of course not. I'm not sure why you're using the word 'empirically', which refers to direct sensory experience - observation and experiment.

I can get information on just about everything I want to know from the internet. Does that prove it was written by god?

Greetings Fishman,

But if someone got me a religious book containing miraculous statements (prophecies, scientific foreknowlege etc) and no errors I would consider it proven.
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Well, that's fair enough if you want to use that as your standard for belief. However, the fact that you consider this a proof does not actually make it so. Something is either a proof or it isn't. Just because something convinces you, that does not in any way mean it is necessarily a proof. I'm beginning to suspect that the word 'proof' has a different meaning in Muslim circles than it does among professional logicians.

Plus, the oft-repeated claim that the Qur'an contains scientific foreknowledge is a Muslim opinion, and has no authority among scientists who haven't been paid substantial sums of money to corroborate such claims.

Peace
 
Greetings,
Alpha Dude said:
The internet is made by man for man, the "internet" is not claim to be a revelation from God.
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So if someone made the claim that it was a revelation from god, would that make it true?

The power of this book is such that whomever reads it gains knowledge of their personal future, i.e. what the person will experience in the course of his life depending on the moves he makes. Then going back to the original question posed by Fishman, would you consider that book to be a revelation from God?
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Not at all. Supposing someone claimed horoscopes were revelations from god, you'd have the same situation.

Are you claiming that the Qur'an contains knowledge about life-events in your own future, by the way?

Peace
 
Why would God need Prophets? Why does God not speak to each of us individually? Or does he? And are we just not listening? Either way, I don't see how I can trust a man (Mohammed) to give me the word of God?
 
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If one of my friends said he was an alien, and did not give me any good evidence, I would reject his claims. But if he gave me an engine from his spaceship, I would consider that proof. Likewise, if someone told me that God existed without giving evidence, then I would reject their claims. But if someone got me a religious book containing miraculous statements (prophecies, scientific foreknowlege etc) and no errors I would consider it proven.
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Allah invites people to consider this truth in the following verse:

Are you stronger in structure or is heaven? He built it. He raised its vault high and made it level. He darkened its night and brought forth its morning light. After that He smoothed out the earth… (Surat an Naziat: 27-30)

Elsewhere it is declared in the Qur'an that a person should see and consider all the systems and balances in the universe that have been created for him by Allah and derive a lesson from his observations:

He has made night and day subservient to you, and the sun and moon and stars, all subject to His command. There is certainly Signs in that for people who pay heed. (Surat an-Nahl: 12)

In yet another verse of the Qur'an, it is pointed out:

He makes night merge into day and day merge into night, and He has made the sun and moon subservient, each one running until a specified time. That is Allah, your Lord. The Kingdom is His. Those you call on besides Him have no power over even the smallest speck.(Surah Fatir: 13)

This plain truth declared by the Qur'an is also confirmed by a number of the important founders of the modern science of astronomy. Galileo, Kepler, and Newton all recognised that the structure of universe, the design of the solar system, the laws of physics and their states of equilibrium were all created by Allah and they arrived at that conclusion as a result of their own research and observations.
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A true revelation would be something that could be backed up by evidence.
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This website is for you check it out

http://www.harunyahya.com/miracles_of_the_quran_01.php
 
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