To be a good Muslim do I have to hate Homosexuals ?

[جوري]

you mentoned a story of a gay Muslim brother who is now married. What a good ending. But you have to note that this brother had good conscience, he saw his thoughts/desires as deviance till the end and worked against them. On the contrary we are talking about Muslims who are "okay" with such desires.

I am generally of the belief that we're born on fitrah and are good but only get uglier with each passing bad deed until it kills any sort of decency and goodness in us. Do you notice (not you) but generally, how when you commit a bad deed the first time you feel horrible, your conscience nags you repeatedly and then every time you commit the same sin it becomes less and less bad until it becomes normal? That's how it is with committing sins when shytaan completely takes control over us (please if you have the time visit the thread about when sheep are shepherded by wolves' because it speaks with our battle with shytaan since the beginning of time and the many ways he approaches us. One of the ways we overcome him is this constant repentance.. But when people feel like they've lost that.. it is a very bad thing.. This brother has set a whole network to help people overcome this and I visited it and saw the kaffirs working their crap there making all sorts of ugly things good and it pained you know why? not because I expect better from them? I expect them full well to use florid speech to beautify all kinds of sins with 'what's wrong with it? it is normal' what made me sad is the lack of support from Muslims as I see it here to help others overcome a grievous sin.. It is a sin like any other.. If you were to fall into adultery and I knew you hated it and felt the desperate need to walk aright should I hate and judge you anyway?
Yes there are gradations of sins but both are from kaba'er and one should offer help to a person who reaches out for help.
I advise you of this as a general rule as in your career probably if you end up in general practice you'll notice 70% of your patients suffer the consequence of something they've brought upon themselves and that includes obese, smoking Muslims as well..

 

[karimium]

There are therapies you can take to change your sexuality, some are psychological, others are physical, such as taking medication that alter the bodies checmical balance which alters your sexual preference.

For what I heard there's not actually anything that says gays per se was a crime, but rather homosexual acts which were forbidden.

Also it should be noted, that in countries like Pakistan, Afghanistan etc. There is a fine line between child exploitation, fornication and homosexuality. A lot of these undergound homosexual parties have otyher sins as well liek sex before marriage and alcohol consumption. So that requres some deeper thought. Is homosexiality wrong because it comes with a lot of baggage which decays the moral fabric of society, or is homosexuality not allowed in itself.

 

[GuestFellow]

Salaam,

There are therapies you can take to change your sexuality, some are psychological, others are physical, such as taking medication
that alter the bodies checmical balance which alters your sexual preference.

Evidence?

I said it's the same idea....not saying they like children too. I am saying that the desire that homosexuals have is the same type of desire that pedo's have BUT homosexuals desires are accepted in western society.

There is still a difference. Homosexual adults can give consent. A child cannot give consent.

With every disease there's indeed a cure..
Ibn Sina described love once as a mental illness, I am inclined to the same conclusion but we're not talking feelings here, rather the act.. .. The cure in this case is simply abstinence .. you can do that as a Hetero or a homo.. for the initial sin in this case is adultery and beyond adultery deviance.. We don't jump people simply because of an intense attraction to them... I certainly think prayers and fast are ropes from Allah in times of difficulty and in all times so a person should utilize them..
I speak from experience not of homosexuality but after an incident on the highway I became a slave to panic attacks and completely agoraphobic and no one helped me out of it not even my intellectualizing it.. it was Allah swt that took me out of it.. one really needs to examine their faith and reliance on Allah swt and do their part as in have the will to..

What is the scientific definition of the term disease? How does homosexuality fit into this definition? Hope I'm not coming across as aggressive with my questions.

he indeed is mentally disturbed for having such desires. maybe a development disorder, but something indeed is wrong.

And i'd hate my brother too if he had such desires. I dont blame your relative's brothers. No one wants a weird sibling.

There are many mental illnesses like depression, social anxiety and post-natal depression. No reasonable individual hates these people who suffer. Why hate homosexuality if it is an illness? Last time I checked, in Islam, a person cannot be guilty of a criminal act if they are suffering from a mental disorder. They would be helped instead of killing them.

How would you define weird? His brothers are not practicing, have no job, no qualifications and disrespect their mom. One of them is in prison. I should not be surprised they hate him.

what if someone is attracted to children? is that normal as long as they dont act on it?

Feelings that result in harmful results should be controlled. If they cannot controlled, they should seek help. It depends on how you define normal. I personally don't see it as normal.

Abd-al lafit
Where do you get your Islamic knowledge from? You’ve also posted to a married woman in advice section that married people who watch porn are to be stoned. YET anyone with BASIC Islamic knowledge it is the act of penetration, witnessed by four people or confessed by the individual that ensure they get death by stoning. She would have been punished in Islamic state if she was caught BUT by death? no..

So I don’t know what to make of your statement that a homosexual will be sentenced to death because of his attraction towards same sex NOT because he confessed or was witnessed having sex with same sex or promoted homosexuality.

You are equating dating with attraction?

It sounds like Pakistani culture to me. It is like communicating with a brick wall at times.

no it is normal, but they haven't committed a crime if they didn't act upon it.

Simple as that.

What if the person can not control what he feels but he had decided to stay away from that sin for Allah? How can that be a sin?

On topic: Very interesting discussion.

Very interesting.

I hope no one takes my post offensive. If so, let me know and I will try to be more diplomatic.

 

[جوري]

What is the scientific definition of the term disease? How does homosexuality fit into this definition? Hope I'm not coming across as aggressive with my questions.

We classify things differently in psychiatry than we do others but it is usually if it falls outside of two standard deviation of the norm which is usually broad. so as an example in order for you to be defined at hypothyroid the value has to fall completely outside the reference range let's say the reference range is from .05-5 and you are a 6 then you'd qualify for that diagnosis and it is usually accompanied by clinical symptoms..
Homosexuality was defined as an act of sexual deviance up to the 1970's in the 'civilized west' so if you'll refer to the DSM-II you'd find it as such..

 

[noorseeker]

Isnt there a Hadith id i recall. If a homosexual person goes through life refraining from acts of homosexuality , and stays chaste

Allah swt will grant them Jannah

Ok say you are born gay, and Allah swt has given you this test


Would you want the test of Poverty all your life or the test of refraining from sexual acts

 

[GuestFellow]

We classify things differently in psychiatry than we do others but it is usually if it falls outside of two standard deviation of the norm which is usually broad. so as an example in order for you to be defined at hypothyroid the value has to fall completely outside the reference range let's say the reference range is from .05-5 and you are a 6 then you'd qualify for that diagnosis and it is usually accompanied by clinical symptoms..
Homosexuality was defined as an act of sexual deviance up to the 1970's in the 'civilized west' so if you'll refer to the DSM-II you'd find it as such..

:wa:

Thank you!

DSM-II? I'll have a look.

 

[CosmicPathos]

How would you define weird? His brothers are not practicing, have no job, no qualifications and disrespect their mom. One of them is in prison. I should not be surprised they hate him.

still better than being homosexual. At least they are not going against fitrah except disrespecting mom part.

having no job is not a sin. having no qualifications is not a sin. they are free to do whatever they wish to do with lives, as long as they are not doing haram. last time i checked, quran doesnt call being jobless a sin. quran doesnt call being a hermit a sin. however ti does call being a gay as something disgusting.

 

[CosmicPathos]

It sounds like Pakistani culture to me. It is like communicating with a brick wall at times.

lol, idiocy. there are many Pakistanis who eat and drink with homosexuals and advocate for LGBT rights. Are they defying their Pakistani culture? lol, you are smarter than that.

 

[GuestFellow]

lol, idiocy. there are many Pakistanis who eat and drink with homosexuals and advocate for LGBT rights. Are they defying their Pakistani culture? lol, you are smarter than that.

Salaam,

I'm such a troll. LOL

Anyway, don't take it too personally. I rarely seen Pakistani people promote gay rights. I guess I'm surrounded by Pakistanis who are more traditional. There is an element of truth in what I said. Most Pakistani people, that I have met, choose their own culture over Islam. When explaining they have done something wrong, they ignore it. So it is like talking to a bring wall. Even if you get evidence from websites like IslamQA, they still choose culture.

I'm speaking from experience.

 

[GuestFellow]

still better than being homosexual. At least they are not going against fitrah except disrespecting mom part.

having no job is not a sin. having no qualifications is not a sin. they are free to do whatever they wish to do with lives, as long as they are not doing haram. last time i checked, quran doesnt call being jobless a sin. quran doesnt call being a hermit a sin. however ti does call being a gay as something disgusting.

Salaam,

I never said having no job or qualifications is a sin. I'm saying they are lazy. They have potential but didn't care. When their dad worked day and night as a taxi driver, they spent his hard earned money on clubbing, smoking, drugs and get into fights. They don't respect their mom at all. They swear at her and never listened to her. The one in prison committed an sexual assault, but he still maintains his innocence.

Their youngest brother (the homosexual) has a job, has qualifications, practices Islam (praying, fasting, etc) and is very polite. Completely different to his brothers. If you still hate the youngest brother when he has done nothing wrong, your influenced by culture.

Again, I hope you don't find this post offensive.

 

[جوري]

:wa:

Thank you!

DSM-II? I'll have a look.

sure it is on the net. and I posted it about it earlier including the lobby to get it to be accepted as a normal variance...
I hope things work out for your relative insha'Allah where he can fight this and triumph for the sake of Allah..

 

[CosmicPathos]

Their youngest brother (the homosexual) has a job, has qualifications, practices Islam (praying, fasting, etc) and is very polite. Completely different to his brothers. If you still hate the youngest brother when he has done nothing wrong, your influenced by culture.

yea i am as influenced by culture as all humans are, whether they accept it or not.

there are atheists who deny God yet are philanthropic and do good deeds. But all of that is in vain.

 

[GuestFellow]

^ Islam should be our main influence.

 

[nfnmcmd]

Was trying to find you. I cant send private messages yet. No offense taken. I appreciate your opinions

 

[CosmicPathos]

sister nfnmcmd, I've sent you a pm. do check it.

 

[nfnmcmd]

I read it. I just cant respond in private messages. I appreciate what you said and understand. I look around and amazed at how people dress and act in public. It is embarrassing to be American. I hate that we are all judged by what is the majority. I was part of that for most of my life. I am happy to see the truth now.

 

[Banu_Hashim]

May Allah guide all of us to that which is blessed and beneficial, Ameen.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Abd-al lafit
Where do you get your Islamic knowledge from? You’ve also posted to a married woman in advice section that married people who watch porn are to be stoned. YET anyone with BASIC Islamic knowledge it is the act of penetration, witnessed by four people or confessed by the individual that ensure they get death by stoning. She would have been punished in Islamic state if she was caught BUT by death? no..

So I don’t know what to make of your statement that a homosexual will be sentenced to death because of his attraction towards same sex NOT because he confessed or was witnessed having sex with same sex or promoted homosexuality.

You are equating dating with attraction?

Where did you learn your manners from?

And what in the world are you talking about? I never said married people who watch porn are to be stoned! If you bothered to read carefully what I said then you would have read that I said whoever has sexual relations with a person whom they aren't married to, while that person is married, is to be stoned. In other words the adultrer. I'm not going to bother to explain myself all over again to you, go back to that thread and read it properly and then we'll talk.

And unless you can prove your point of homosexuals from the Qur'an and Sunnah you're opinion holds no weight. I will only advance my argument further or agree and/or disagree once you bring evidences from the Qur'an and Sunnah because then you will have no way of twisting or changing what I say.

 

[~Zaria~]

Assalamu-alaikum,


I think there are 2 categories of people with regards to homosexuality/ gender identity issues.

First is the type that brother 'Abd-al-Latif mentions of:

The person who is born with normal sexual tendencies, but due to social conditioning - makes a choice/ conscious decision to pursue relationships of the same gender.
These are the people of Lot - who intentionally committed these abominations, and who are warned of a severe punishment.

The next group are those people, who by no fault of their own areborn with medical conditions that fall under Disorders of Sexual Differentiation - examples of these being Congenital Adrenal Hyperplasia (excessive androgen production due to an enzyme deficiency), Klinefelters Syndrome (males who carry an extra X chromosome - 46 XXY), mixed gonadal abnormalities, Hermaphrodites (presence of ovarian and testicular tissue in the same individual) - to name just a few......

In these conditions, patients often have 'ambigious' genitals - i.e. its difficult to determine physically whether it is a boy/ girl - associated with confusion of sexual inclination.
Often these patients need surgical reconstruction, and a psychological assessment to decide which gender the individual is inclined towards.

And for a muslim afflicted by one of these conditions - can you imagine the trial that he/she faces to actively try and ward him/ herself from deviant sexual inclination.
What immense reward he will earn for doing so, purely for the pleasure of Allah (subhanawataála).



Having said this, it should be noted that these conditions are rare, with the majority of homosexual cases falling into the first group.

The reason I am mentioning this, is to stress that it is NOT up to us to judge anyone.
Allah (subhanawataála) alone knows what trials He has placed in an individuals life, and He is the best of Judgers.

So, the next time you see a homosexual person - stop yourself, and give him the benefit of the doubt - in all likelihood, he has fallen into the traps of Shaytaan.......but perhaps there is more than meets the eye......


:wa:

 

[Abu.Yusuf]

What if the person can not control what he feels but he had decided to stay away from that sin for Allah? How can that be a sin?

It is not a sin if someone has that feeling. It is a sin if he desires it, is content with it etc. If he is fighting his desires and trying to refrain from it, then that is a good deed - it is a form of Jihaad [Jihaad un-Nafs]. he would be rewarded for it if Allaah wills.