To muslims are atheists worse than other theists?

[IbnAbdulHakim]

^ how?! (hope im not asking too much :--$)

 

[snakelegs]

i talk to god and i appreciate him through his works = all the beauties and mysteries of nature.
i know - it's a bit weird. :giggling:

 

[boriqee]

Yes. So how does the above demonstrate that disbelieving in Zeus is itself a way of life?


Eh? The disbelief in Zeus equals a monotheistic religion? You appear unaware of what a 'way of life' is. Disbelieving in Zeus in and of itself implies no lifestyle or way of life - it only implies disbelief in Zeus.

If disbelieving in Zeus resulted in the framework of a specific belief system - then it would be a way of life. But as it does not, it is not. A way of life is a positive assertion. You appear to define anything as a way of life and reduce the meaning of it to arbitrariness.


Islam asserts more than simply believing in God. That is why it is a way of life. Islam may be based from a specific metaphysical viewpoint, but the way of life in Islam itself comes from the scriptures. Atheism is not at all like that, it is just a rejection of a single metaphysical viewpoint.

A way of life from something is something that asserts it. Islam is a way of life and it asserts it. Atheism does not.


Atheism is actually the result of my beliefs regarding God (or lack thereof). My ethical decisions are separate from the disbelief in God. I do not even concern myself with the non-existence of God when considering ethical values.

Irrespective, if all of the above are indeed consequences of Atheism - then Atheism is still not a way of life because Atheism in and of itself is a single viewpoint on a single metaphysical assertion.


No. All Atheists have in common is that they all agree on a single metaphysical viewpoint. You do not know how Atheists approach ethical systems and neither do I. There is no fluency because Atheism implies nor asserts not ethical assertions.


Except that saying my outlook in life is based on Atheism is equal to saying my outlook on life is based on my disbelief in Zeus, Brahma and Odin. None of them are true since they are completely meaningless in my day to day functions.

And moreover, do you even know what a religion is? A religion is a system of common beliefs about reality (both is and/or ought) and an more often than not an acquired sense of community amongst the adherents. Saying Atheism is a religion is like saying not playing chess is a hobby. It is like saying Disbelieving in Zeus, Odin and Thor is a religion and it is like saying that any viewpoint automatically becomes a way of life.


Perhaps, Perhaps not. Irrespective of the origins of Secularism, it does not make Atheism a way of life. All it shows is that some Atheists advocated Secularism. The definition of Atheism still remains untouched.

I guess my previous evaluation became all the more truer

if you did'nt get it up to this point, then your simply just not going to get it, unfortunately

have a nice day

 

[Isambard]

What previous point? You created a strawman based on your misunderstanding of negative statements.

 

[syilla]

More over, why is that my responsibility and you don't seam to think you have any responsibility to understand my beliefs?

I think that says a lot about you.

do i have to show it to you? :uhwhat

anyway thanks.

p/s:- sorry for being offtopic.

 

[Trumble]

so you accept the one who created you but reject what he has commanded you

......?!

A reasonable enough position. Accepting God as existing and as Creator does not necessarily require the associated beliefs that He requires worship, has any need to 'command' anybody, that He would issue such commands by using prophets, etc, etc. God stripped of the obvious anthropomorphisms of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition is a very interesting concept and the basis of much 'belief', especially in scientific circles.

 

[jouju]

am praying you find solace in islaam
personally i find it disturbing when one doesnt believe in Allah,OUR CREATOR...The creator of the universe
Allah's signs are everywhere...But then its ur decision...am not saying i'll respect it...coz i bliv its wrong but icant judge you for who ur...for ur choice in life. All i can do is tell u abt islaam...About Allah,ur creator...and pray to AllAH TO GUIDE you

BUT i do have a something for you to think about...
Wats d first thing u say wen u have problems/ur loved one is on the verge of death....???or even if u want something soo bad...
Dont u turn to God(without even thinking twice????)??

Allahumma ihdinaa

Please take no offense in wat av said

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

God stripped of the obvious anthropomorphisms of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition is a very interesting concept and the basis of much 'belief', especially in scientific circles.

what do you mean by this?!

 

[wilberhum]

do i have to show it to you? :uhwhat

anyway thanks.

p/s:- sorry for being offtopic.

No, not at all. I see no reason to. For me, knowledge of my beliefs is not a Condition of friendship.

 

[Woodrow]

Trying to understand exactly what the writer of the OP (Original Post) is looking for I decided to finaly check the dictionary and find out for certain if I really did understand what a theist is. I was using the basic definition that a theist is a person who believes in at least one God. well here is what I eventually found:

It is possible to categorize views about deities in a variety of ways. One common procedure is to classify views about the existence of deities. This classification system categorizes view about deities as:

Theism — The belief that gods or deities exist and interact with the universe.
Atheism — A lack of belief that gods exist.
Deism — The belief that a god or gods exists, but does not interact with the universe.
Agnosticism — The belief that there is no way to know about gods or deities.

Some classifications group atheism and agnosticism together under the classification of nontheism — absence of clearly identified belief in any deity.

The main subcategories of theism are:

polytheism — The belief in and worship of multiple gods or deities.

monotheism — The belief in and worship of a single god.



This taxonomy is based on beliefs about the existence of god or gods. Other taxonomies are possible. For example, a different taxonomy is based on beliefs about the nature or characteristics (rather than the existence) of God or the gods. Examples include:

pantheism — The belief that God and the universe are equivalent
or belief that acknowledges other gods.
panentheism — The belief that the universe is part of God
dystheism or maltheism — the belief that God is not, as is often assumed, good, but is actually evil

There is no specific source for this, just various dictionary definitions.

So quite simply an atheist is a nontheist, not a theist and theists believe:

monotheism — The belief in and worship of a single god

polytheism — The belief in and worship of multiple gods or deities.

pantheism — The belief that God and the universe are equivalent
or belief that acknowledges other gods.

panentheism — The belief that the universe is part of God

dystheism or maltheism — the belief that God is not, as is often assumed, good, but is actually evil

With that out of the way my personal opinion would be that the worse theist is a maltheist.

 

[boriqee]

God stripped of the obvious anthropomorphisms of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition is a very interesting concept and the basis of much 'belief', especially in scientific circles.

excuse me sir, but what revealed knowledge do you have that necessitates you have detailed knowledge about what tajseem (anthropomorphism) is and what things are not. Islam came with the asl "laysa kamithlihi shay" that is "there is no likeness i.e. anthropomorphism to Him. The Islamic doctrine freed this concept from Him and became the criterion in how Allah or God is to be viewed in spite of those who have an opinion contrary to this. please explain where anthropmorphism is infused in the Islamic doctrine (please don't incorperate other doctrines and mend it with Islam)

thank you

 

[boriqee]

What previous point? You created a strawman based on your misunderstanding of negative statements.

this is coming from somoene who is himself upon a strawman position. The arguements speak for themselves. as was said, if you didn't get it up till this popint, your just not gonna get it

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

this is coming from somoene who is himself upon a strawman position. The arguements speak for themselves. as was said, if you didn't get it up till this popint, your just not gonna get it

This has nothing to do with 'not getting it'; you have given arguments that are philosophically worthless and misrepresented the positions of others. Being patronising does not help your cause much either.

Peace

 

[Skavau]

this is coming from somoene who is himself upon a strawman position. The arguements speak for themselves. as was said, if you didn't get it up till this popint, your just not gonna get it

Your logic does not add up. You seem to profess that not being a part of something is a lifestyle in and of itself.

 

[Trumble]

excuse me sir, but what revealed knowledge do you have that necessitates you have detailed knowledge about what tajseem (anthropomorphism) is and what things are not. Islam came with the asl "laysa kamithlihi shay" that is "there is no likeness i.e. anthropomorphism to Him. The Islamic doctrine freed this concept from Him and became the criterion in how Allah or God is to be viewed in spite of those who have an opinion contrary to this. please explain where anthropmorphism is infused in the Islamic doctrine (please don't incorperate other doctrines and mend it with Islam)

Anthropomorphism means endowing God (in this case) with the characteristics of human beings. As a (pre-Islamic) philosopher once said, if triangles had a God it would have three sides. Obviously we are not talking about physical appearance here, at least in the Islamic tradition, but in my opinion (and I do not expect you to agree with it!) other traits attributed to God are clearly anthropomorphic, such as the requirement to be worshipped, the need to create something to do the worshipping (in short, an ego), to command (or even have wishes and desires that lead to a need to command), or any idea of 'judgement'. In the earlier traditions it's far more obvious, full of ideas of a wrathful God, jealous God, etc.

As I said, I do not expect you to agree with me. I believe God to be a wholly human construct rather than a metaphysical reality, which is obviously a position any theist by definition must find totally unacceptable.

 

[al-muslimah]

So what is your defination of evil? Atheist.--by wilbehumm

Anyone who hates and fights against the truth, Allah's religion is pure evil.Not all atheists in fact some are very OPEN MINDED unlike wilberhumm since you devot your time debating with a pure religion.

 

[Muezzin]

This is not meant to start bickering... so please ignore any trolls that try to take it that way (there's really only one I'd expect to do so).

What I want to know is how muslims in general feel about atheists. Are we seen merely as lost souls, ignorant of the truth, or are we seen as agents of Shaytan (sp?) and more of a threat to the true faith than any false religion could be?

Well, I certainly don't see atheists as the agents of Satan or anything. I don't actually mind either way. I'd prefer if more people became Muslim, but because there should be no compulsion in religion, I choose to try and lead by example as opposed to getting all evangelical. That said, when certain atheists get all evangelical, it's just as irritating as crazy religious preacher dudes.

Otherwise, it's just 'well, such and such doesn't believe in God. I don't hate such and such for that, but I wished he or she saw it my way, because the way I see things brings me happiness, and I want such and such to be happy as well. Oh well. Just be nice.'

I ask because I have noticed that here as well as elsewhere on the internet the muslims and christians and jews will argue with each other, even bicker from time to time but when dealing with the atheist it seems to be a whole other level of it. Are the atheists just more provocative or is there something about them not believing that itself troubles folks?

It's the Internet. Conflict is, like, lubricant.

I've also met some devout christians who appear to be threatened or offended simply by learning I'm an atheist, without me saying anything more than that (or them finding out I'm an atheist from a third person). One of them refused to talk to me for weeks after learning I'm a heathen... which was just very strange because she was quite a nice and sweet lady otherwise. The fangs only came out after learning this.

Yeah, but you live across the pond. In the UK, it's fine. British stiff upper lip, or something in the Canadian and American water? You tell me.

I have not met many muslims in my real life (they simply aren't as prevalent here) so I'm wondering if the same phenomenon exists with them. Given that I say nothing against their faith, only that I'm atheist, would they regard me same as a christian or jew or would they have a special concern about me beyond that?

Depends on the person, I think. Like I said, the evangelical (read: negative, loud-mouthed and intent on destroying people's sense of hope) atheists are more likely to get a heated reaction. Heated reactions are not the correct way of dealing with things, obviously, but there it is. I mean, look at Czgibson on this site. Theologically that member disagrees with and even criticises Muslims and Islam, but he does not do so in an aggressive manner, and so is treated with the proper respect. It's only when the nutters (be they religious or non-religious) come shouting insanity from the mountains that we get 'flame wars'.

Fellow atheists and agnostics are welcome to opine on this as well (as well as all others here) but again I ask that this not be turned into a war zone as too often threads re atheism seem to.

Yeah. War zones are bad. Especially on the Net. It means I lose out on sleep for deleting posts. Bleh.

 

[wilberhum]

So what is your defination of evil? Atheist.--by wilbehumm

Anyone who hates and fights against the truth, Allah's religion is pure evil.Not all atheists in fact some are very OPEN MINDED unlike wilberhumm since you devot your time debating with a pure religion.

Anyone who hates and fights against the truth? That would be your version of the truth, right?
And I'm evil because I debate against what you think is a "Pure Religion"?

But then you also think the PKK are good Muslims. :giggling::giggling::giggling::giggling::giggling::giggling::giggling:

So it is obvious that you define many things based on misunderstanding and lack of knowledge. :hiding:

 

[Pygoscelis]

I think that there are very few people who are atheists.I mean its hard to believe that there is no one there, just science and evolution.

I find it interesting that you'd say this, because this is something I've encountered a few times in theists, and I've experienced it myself from the opposite side.

Often a hard core theist will tell me that I am not an atheist but just am denying God and pretending he doesn't exist. Such people seem to have difficulty even imagining the concept of their being no God. At first I found these folks offensive (essentially they are calling me a liar when I say I'm an atheist) but then I realized I've experienced the same view.

For a number of years I had difficulty accepting that anybody COULD believe in Gods, thinking they all just went along with it more as a cultural thing than an actual belief thing, and that they didn't actually deep down believe it was real.

Its an interesting phenomenon from both angles. I think its hard for many of us to paradigm shift into belief/disbelief and imagine it a position one could truly hold.

 

[------]

:salamext:

^^^^^ What is your definition of 'God'?