to the non-muslims on here...

[Dawud_uk]

no it means making sure he doesnt do it again either to me or any other muslim.

we used to go in jihad because one muslim women was exposed by a corrupt roman ruler, now thousands of women are raped and assulted by hindu nationalist mobs, babies cut from wombs and we sit and do nothing.

Abu Abdullah

 

[justahumane]

it is an interesting idea... just dont fight and disobey Allah in his command to fight back, disobey Allah's messenger saws in his commands to fight back, ignore the history of islam wherever we have been oppressed and conquerred in the past we have fought back and won.

so no, that is not the way as it is turning away from Allah and his Rasool saws and also from what has worked over and over in the past.

as well as gandhi's non violence you must realise others were fighting and so the brits knew their time was up. non-violence will only get you so far and what they dont mind giving up anyway.

Abu Abdullah

Brother its only here that I smell foul. U guys (read majority of muslims) are disobeying ALLAH and the holy prophet left and right. every muslim nation is living testimony of this claim. But when it comes to peace, ALLAH's commands are on top of muslim agenda, and fighting and killing becomes a must do. I cant say that I wish U all the best.

U guys(read majority of muslims) can turn away from ALLAH and his Rasool for ur personal greed, but if it comes to peaceful existance, live and let live, than ALLAH and Rasool stops U from doing so.

If violence was a reason for brits to leave India, than they would have left way back in 1857 when whole Northern India was on kiling spree against british ppls. But that resulted only in more atrocities on Indians. Gandhi always knew that India cant win freedom by fighting mighty brithish Raj, so he opted for a more potent way of fighting than violence, and did he deliver? History will always remember answer to this question.

May ALLAH show U the right path of peace and co-existance. AMEEN.

PS: Plz dont take any of my remark as personal coz I know very well that U are someone who only give logistic support to violence and never indulge personally in this cruel act.

Thanks.

 

[justahumane]

look,

someone slaps me i will ask him why he slapped me, he does it again i will knock him to the floor and give him a good kicking.

violence is something we should avoid if we can, but sometimes there are no alternatives.

Abu Abdullah

Brother, I can well understand that U are speaking in typical muslim voice. Had this not been a typical muslim voice than I would have not been able to tell U that history tells us that far far more muslims have been killed by muslims rather than non-muslims. I hope U are aware of this fact. if not than plz ask, I will show U the reality.

Its not the question of if someone slapped U, its like U invited someone to slap U so that U can retaliate to appease the violent creature inside urself.

May ALLAH show U the right path. AMEEN.

 

[justahumane]

no it means making sure he doesnt do it again either to me or any other muslim.

we used to go in jihad because one muslim women was exposed by a corrupt roman ruler, now thousands of women are raped and assulted by hindu nationalist mobs, babies cut from wombs and we sit and do nothing.

Abu Abdullah

Brother, working on ur modus operandi, if I can give U proof that some muslims guys did same things to some hindu women in the past, will U justify what those fanatic hindu animals did in Gujrat? Plz dont fail to answer this question.

BTW It seems that extremist elements of both side are cut from same cloth, coz they too speak exactly same language as U do.


Thanks.

 

[- Qatada -]

Fighting has been prescribed upon the muslims so they can destroy the enemies who oppress the believers and so they can apply Allaah Almighty's law in the land. We don't expect them people to carry on harming the believers without any retaliation.


This was prescribed upon the children of Isra'eel, and the ummah of Muhammad (peace be upon him.) Allaah will destroy the enemy through the believer's hands, instead of sending natural disasters upon the disbelievers [like what happened to the earlier nations before us.]

Anyone who says that Allaah/God does not like justice is lying, because Allaah is the Most Just. How then can Allaah forbid a law such as defending one's fellow brothers and sisters? How can Allaah allow the enemy to have the upperhand forever? That can't be, because in the end - the victory is always for the believers - in this life and the hereafter, because they are the best of creation.


War is hated by the people, but if all war is evil - then there has to be a side which is good, who is fighting in the way of their Lord, their Creator to establish the truth, to establish justice and to establish peace. Islaam is that law, and victory can only come from Allaah. In the end - every single soul will return to it's Creator, to Allaah Almighty - who will decide and judge between us.



Allaah Almighty know's best.​

 

[justahumane]

Fighting has been prescribed upon the muslims so they can destroy the enemies who oppress the believers and so they can apply Allaah Almighty's law in the land. We don't expect them people to carry on harming the believers without any retaliation.


This was prescribed upon the children of Isra'eel, and the ummah of Muhammad (peace be upon him.) Allaah will destroy the enemy through the believer's hands, instead of sending natural disasters upon the disbelievers [like what happened to the earlier nations before us.]

Anyone who says that Allaah/God does not like justice is lying, because Allaah is the Most Just. How then can Allaah forbid a law such as defending one's fellow brothers and sisters? How can Allaah allow the enemy to have the upperhand forever? That can't be, because in the end - the victory is always for the believers - in this life and the hereafter, because they are the best of creation.


War is hated by the people, but if all war is evil - then there has to be a side which is good, who is fighting in the way of their Lord, their Creator to establish the truth, to establish justice and to establish peace. Islaam is that law, and victory can only come from Allaah. In the end - every single soul will return to it's Creator, to Allaah Almighty - who will decide and judge between us.



Allaah Almighty know's best.​

Brother, in fact those who are fighting are not believers, thats why they are biting dust repeatedly and causing misiries to the Ummah of the holy prophet. Battle of Badr is the proof of my statement.

May ALLAH show all the right path.

 

[- Qatada -]

Brother, according to your beliefs their not believers. But realise that those who fight to defend their brothers and sisters, are much better than those priests who lock themselves up in buildings to worship God/Allaah.

This is a religion of action, and helping people to please Allaah is more rewarding than locking yourself up to perform prayers and to fast. Your helping society as a whole, instead of turning away from society. Any normal person believes that.



The only reason the US, UK, Europe etc. armies are supported are because of their nationalism, patriotism etc. But the muslims fight as a more bigger/greater force - because they don't split themselves up into nations, but as one whole ummah - to establish truth and justice. They don't care about their differences in skin color, or their castes, or their wealth - they have a greater aim, and that is to please Allaah by establishing the justice that everyone would desire.

If you feel that's not right, then i really don't understand what you mean.




Allaah Almighty know's best.

 

[justahumane]

Ameen, we should all pray to Allaah for the true guidance. I will pray for you to insha'Allaah.


If you find anything confusing or wrong about my post, i look forward to a response from you insha'Allaah.



Peace.

Nothing as such brother, I respect ur belief and views, only dont subscribe to them.

 

[justahumane]

Brother, according to your beliefs their not believers. But realise that those who fight to defend their brothers and sisters, are much better than those priests who lock themselves up in buildings to worship God/Allaah.

This is a religion of action, and helping people to please Allaah is more rewarding than locking yourself up to perform prayers and to fast. Your helping society as a whole, instead of turning away from society. Any normal person believes that.



The only reason the US, UK, Europe etc. armies are supported are because of their nationalism, patriotism etc. But the muslims fight as a more bigger/greater force - because they don't split themselves up into nations, but as one whole ummah - to establish truth and justice. They don't care about their differences in skin color, or their castes, or their wealth - they have a greater aim, and that is to please Allaah by establishing the justice that everyone would desire.

If you feel that's not right, then i really don't understand what you mean.




Allaah Almighty know's best.

Well brother, I may be wrong, but I must say that all the fighting which U describe is to defend their brothers and sisters have proven to be counter productive.

If the intention of fighters is only to save their brothers and sisters than how come that fighters for the Ummah dont fight in Darfur? How come that fighters for the Ummah didnt fight when Saddam was wrecking havoc on the Ummah? Had those brave and holy fighters fought that time than we wouldnt have seen invasion of Iraq by monkey bush. Dont they or U know that Saddam's son used to rape women at will?

And to conclude, My belief are definetely different from urs, and I believe that if those figthters were fighting for noble cause of ALLAH, than ALLAH would have rewarded them with victory by now, again I will like to remind U of battle of Badr.

Cant U see that those fighters are only bringing more sufferings to the Ummah they claim to be fighting for?

Thanks.

 

[- Qatada -]

Well brother, I may be wrong, but I must say that all the fighting which U describe is to defend their brothers and sisters have proven to be counter productive.

If the intention of fighters is only to save their brothers and sisters than how come that fighters for the Ummah dont fight in Darfur? How come that fighters for the Ummah didnt fight when Saddam was wrecking havoc on the Ummah? Had those brave and holy fighters fought that time than we wouldnt have seen invasion of Iraq by monkey bush. Dont they or U know that Saddam's son used to rape women at will?

The muslims don't fight to gain attention in the media. So Allaah Almighty know's best, they may have fought against the oppressors, but they never got the media attention that people might have expected.

How can we say what we don't know? The only real source we have, which is totally biased is the media. And obviously, they not going to show the one's who fight against the oppressers, because in the view of the west - these people are a threat to them anyway.

And to conclude, My belief are definetely different from urs, and I believe that if those figthters were fighting for noble cause of ALLAH, than ALLAH would have rewarded them with victory by now, again I will like to remind U of battle of Badr.

Cant U see that those fighters are only bringing more sufferings to the Ummah they claim to be fighting for?

I think you've just thought about one form of victory, and that may be to have authority in the land, while gaining the spoils of war.

However, islaam introduced a totally new definition of victory, of which include; victory of authority in the land, the spoils of war etc. the idea of dying in the cause of Allaah - in return for paradise, because the person sacrificed his/her life solely for Allaah, the victory against shaytaan (satan) and pushing away ones evil desires.


Islaam is totally different because throughout a muslims life, he/she is striving for the hereafter. This world is an exam hall which will end soon, and we will be judged on all our actions, then be punished or rewarded according to what we did.


I don't understand how the battle of badr is anyhow related to this, but they did end up being victorious in many ways - they won against the oppressors, they fought against their desires and shaytan, some of them died for the sake of Allaah.




Also, i've discussed it with you earlier, the reason why the authority isn't in the lands yet is because people have left the idea of striving in Allaah's cause, and they have preferred this world over the hereafter. Why should Allaah honor us if He only honored us because of our islaam, because of our submission to Him, Almighty. We've turned away from that, and only once we return to Islaam whole heartedly will Allaah honor us once again insha'Allaah.

Thanks.

You too.

 

[Dawud_uk]

assalaamu alaykum,

many fighters did go and fight against saddam and the proof of this is that the US before starting the ground invasion of iraq started with a bombing raid against ansar al islam which is a mainly kurdish but also arab islamic resistence group that used to attack the secular armies of the disbelieving saddam as well as the secular armies of the disbelieving kurdish communists and socialists.

this group is now called ansar al sunnah and is one of the largest of the mujahadeen groups fighting in iraq.

assalaamu alaykum,
Abu Abdullah

 

[justahumane]

The muslims don't fight to gain attention in the media. So Allaah Almighty know's best, they may have fought against the oppressors, but they never got the media attention that people might have expected.

How can we say what we don't know? The only real source we have, which is totally biased is the media. And obviously, they not going to show the one's who fight against the oppressers, because in the view of the west - these people are a threat to them anyway.






I think you've just thought about one form of victory, and that may be to have authority in the land, while gaining the spoils of war.

However, islaam introduced a totally new definition of victory, of which include; victory of authority in the land, the spoils of war etc. the idea of dying in the cause of Allaah - in return for paradise, because the person sacrificed his/her life solely for Allaah, the victory against shaytaan (satan) and pushing away ones evil desires.


Islaam is totally different because throughout a muslims life, he/she is striving for the hereafter. This world is an exam hall which will end soon, and we will be judged on all our actions, then be punished or rewarded according to what we did.


I don't understand how the battle of badr is anyhow related to this, but they did end up being victorious in many ways - they won against the oppressors, they fought against their desires and shaytan, some of them died for the sake of Allaah.




Also, i've discussed it with you earlier, the reason why the authority isn't in the lands yet is because people have left the idea of striving in Allaah's cause, and they have preferred this world over the hereafter. Why should Allaah honor us if He only honored us because of our islaam, because of our submission to Him, Almighty. We've turned away from that, and only once we return to Islaam whole heartedly will Allaah honor us once again insha'Allaah.






You too.

Thanks for ur response brother, I have nothing new to add apart from my earlier views and I stand for them. And I differ with U.

Lets meet again on this issue on the day of judgement, Inshallah.

 

[MTAFFI]

dawud

did i answer your questions on page 2

 

[blunderbus]

"But the muslims fight as a more bigger/greater force - because they don't split themselves up into nations, but as one whole ummah - to establish truth and justice. They don't care about their differences in skin color, or their castes, or their wealth - they have a greater aim, and that is to please Allaah by establishing the justice that everyone would desire"

Is that what's going on in Darfur? Muslims there are being subjected to horrific treatment far worse than Iraq or Palestine or Kasmir, so what exactly is the "muslim nation" doing to help them?

BTW to answer your original question. If my country were ruled by Saddam and the Baathist, I would welcome an invasion. I would also support a government democratically elected by my countrymen and women.
Would I want the foreign troops to leave? You bet I would, but only after my country could defend itself against the beheaders and car bombers.

 

[thirdwatch512]

if america was attacked.. well, it depended on the nation who took us over.. if it was like some radical country like iran, i would take up arms, but if it was like france or something, i would leave them alone because that is a nation i can trust that would not hurt us if we left them alone.

i personally think america invading iraq was wrong, but if i lived in iraq i would just left america alone so they would get out quicker.

violence is never the answer to anything.

 

[GARY]

LOL! Talk about a loaded question!
Things are rarely so black and white Dawud_uk. You clearly are a victim of the propaganda war that is going on. Try reading between the lines of both sides, and think for yourself.

 

[- Qatada -]

You guys should do the same ^^



Peace.

 

[GARY]

You guys should do the same ^^



Peace.

Which guys?

 

[IB-Staff]

Hello GARY,

I think he means that everyone needs to exercise objective judgement and be cautious of propaganda, not only Muslims.

 

[GARY]

Hello GARY,

I think he means that everyone needs to exercise objective judgement and be cautious of propaganda, not only Muslims.

I agree. Unfortunately very few people anywhere in the world do this. Even in countries like Britain and the US where many sides of a story are accessible, most choose their sources and stick with them. most times the truth lies somewhere in the muddy waters between the polarized views of western propaganda and eastern propaganda.

I hate to use a cliche, but we need to reed between the lines.