Translation project to bring cream of foreign writers to Arabs

[Woodrow]

Greetings,


I only say that because I read a stern "refutation" of it by an Arabic writer (I can't seem to find it right now). It wasn't that convincing, though, and I suspect that there genuinely have been very few books translated into Arabic. I was just looking to see if anyone else could confirm or deny.

Peace

Greetings,

Quite a bit of literature is available in Arabic:

Some examples:

http://www.carthago.info/index.html

http://www.alkitab.com/main.asp?uri=1065&cat=1.264.145

http://www.alkitab.com/main.asp?uri=1065&cat=1.264.289

Shakespeare in Arabic at the Moroccan Shakespeare theater. Shakespeares plays are available in Arabic at nearly if not all Arabic universities, plus most Arabic countries do have at least one Shakespearean Theater in Arabic. Kuwait has a very good one.

http://www.postcolonialweb.org/morocco/literature/amine2.html


To be honest I am not able to find any major book that can not be found in Arabic. Now it is true that Pornography, Anti-Islamic and such will most likely not be found in most Arabic Speaking countries. However, such things are found in Arabic. But, usually not in the Muslim Arabic community.

I may be wrong, but this sounds like a little manipulation of information for somebody to get some big dollar grants from the UN. Not intentional, some people may actually believe that a lot of classical literature can not be found in Arabic.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings Woodrow,

Thanks for the information, there's some interesting stuff there. I would assume that lots of classical works of literature would be available in Arabic, as much of it was preserved by Arabs! One version of the claim I've read says that the dearth of translations begins after the ninth century CE.

So would works like Montaigne's Essays, Kant's Critiques, Hume's Dialogues, Paine's Rights of Man, Joyce's Ulysses or Tolkien's Lord of the Rings be available, do you think? I'm just trying to get a handle on this.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Greetings Woodrow,

Thanks for the information, there's some interesting stuff there. I would assume that lots of classical works of literature would be available in Arabic, as much of it was preserved by Arabs! One version of the claim I've read says that the dearth of translations begins after the ninth century CE.

So would works like Montaigne's Essays, Kant's Critiques, Hume's Dialogues, Paine's Rights of Man, Joyce's Ulysses or Tolkien's Lord of the Rings be available, do you think? I'm just trying to get a handle on this.

Peace

Here are Kant's Critiques in Arabic. I am looking for the others.

http://www.marefa.org/index.php/%D8%A5%D9%8A%D9%85%D8%A7%D9%86%D9%88%D9%8A%D9%84_%D9%83%D8%A7%D9%86%D8%AA

There is a link to Montaigne's Essays on the same page, in Arabic. Granted the site is a little difficult to navigate, but you will find the works of both in Arabic. Just have to click on the right links.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Nice work, Woodrow. This is really helpful of you, thank you. I think this is an important issue, so any help is appreciated.

Here are Kant's Critiques in Arabic. I am looking for the others.

That looks like a bibliography to me. Is there a link there to an Arabic text of the Critiques?

There is a link to Montaigne's Essays on the same page, in Arabic. Granted the site is a little difficult to navigate, but you will find the works of both in Arabic. Just have to click on the right links.

That's what I'm discovering, yes!

For some reason it thrills me to think that somebody somewhere might be reading Montaigne or Kant in Arabic.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Greetings,

I think you will find that nearly every English book has been translated into Arabic at one time or another. Not all but a large number, I have not been able to find Tolkien's books in Arabic but I know the movies with available in Arabic
subtitles.

http://www.mymoviestream.com/movies/detail.aspx?id=66125

Kant is used in some Arabic sociology classes. Although he is not spoken of very flatteringly.

Most of the major Arabic language Universities have excellent libraries and do have a good selection of classics from many Languages.

What I find to be a shortage of, is Arabic classics translated into English. About the only ones, Besides the Qur'an, are Gibran's "The Prophet" and the "Rubaiyat" by Omar Khayyam. I know there are more. But only a very small amount of Arabic Literature has been translated into English.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I think you will find that nearly every English book has been translated into Arabic at one time or another. Not all but a large number, I have not been able to find Tolkien's books in Arabic but I know the movies with available in Arabic
subtitles.

I might well find that; I'm still looking, though, that's the thing.

Kant is used in some Arabic sociology classes. Although he is not spoken of very flatteringly.

That's interesting to hear. For Westerners, he is pretty much the greatest modern philosopher (in an understanding that the 18th century is part of the modern era). Perhaps it was his unpicking of Aquinas' five ways that has made in unpopular in Arab society.

What I find to be a shortage of, is Arabic classics translated into English. About the only ones, Besides the Qur'an, are Gibran's "The Prophet" and the "Rubaiyat" by Omar Khayyam. I know there are more. But only a very small amount of Arabic Literature has been translated into English.

[I thought Omar Khayyam wrote in Persian? I presume Persian and Arabic have similarities beyond the script?]

I can think of loads of Arabic classics in English. Maybe we should try this the other way round! Are there any books you'd like me to try and find in English?

I realise I'm opening myself up to possible embarrassment here, and note from this wikipedia article that "Few modern Arabic works have been translated into other languages." In any case, which classics are English monoglots missing out on? It would be good to find out.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Greetings CZ,

you are correct that Khayyam originally wrote in Persian however, most of his works were translated to Arabic very soon after they were written and much of his work was only preserved in Arabic. There actually is a lot of difference between Persian(Farsi) and Arabic, Although Farsi is written in a modified Arabic script.

I promise I will try to find some classical Arabic literature in English for you. Some of the less common but more educational/academic type things. the dislike I find many Arabs have about Kant is that some of his work comes across as being anti-Semitic.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

:salamext: and greetings,

Interesting! As an English Literature student, I actually enjoy reading - though I don't have much time for it. I'm having mixed feelings about this at the moment.

Four years ago the UN's Arab human development report identified a lack of translated foreign works as an issue restricting Arab intellectual life.

Excuse me? Just because people choose not to read English literature, that doesn't make them dense!

 

[syilla]

^^^ yeah i know what you mean...

they don't know the truth about the arabian...lol

i guess maybe we should show to them the saudi arabia woman video....

 

[Woodrow]

Greetings,


I might well find that; I'm still looking, though, that's the thing.



That's interesting to hear. For Westerners, he is pretty much the greatest modern philosopher (in an understanding that the 18th century is part of the modern era). Perhaps it was his unpicking of Aquinas' five ways that has made in unpopular in Arab society.



[I thought Omar Khayyam wrote in Persian? I presume Persian and Arabic have similarities beyond the script?]

I can think of loads of Arabic classics in English. Maybe we should try this the other way round! Are there any books you'd like me to try and find in English?

I realise I'm opening myself up to possible embarrassment here, and note from this wikipedia article that "Few modern Arabic works have been translated into other languages." In any case, which classics are English monoglots missing out on? It would be good to find out.

Peace

Here is a classic Author that most of his work has not been translated into English. I believe this is the only work of his many that has been translated.

The trend towards linguistic virtuosity led, ultimately, to a triumph of form over content. al-HARIRI (c 1054-1122) took the maqamah to new heights (or extremes) in order to demonstrate his prowess with word-play and his seemingly inexhaustible vocabulary. In one work, he used only those letters of the alphabet which have no dots or do not join to the following letter in a word. Even so, for more than seven centuries, al-Hariri's maqamat were regarded as the greatest literary treasure of Arabic, after the Qur'an. According to some readers, wholesome moral values and subtle criticisms of the existing social order underlie al-Hariri's decorative language.

Source of Quote: http://www.al-bab.com/arab/literature/lit.htm

This is a discussion of one of the works of "Al Hariri of Basrah" I beleive this is the only work of his that has been translated into English. .



Al Hariri of Basrah (446-516 A.H./1054-1122 CE):
Maqamat, (The Assemblies), c. 1100 CE

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis/1100Hariri.html

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

:salamext: and greetings,

Interesting! As an English Literature student, I actually enjoy reading - though I don't have much time for it. I'm having mixed feelings about this at the moment.

A very wise choice of course, if I may say so!

Excuse me? Just because people choose not to read English literature, that doesn't make them dense!

You misunderstand - the claim is about translating works from ALL other foreign languages, not just English.

Just to repeat my position here: I don't know if the UN's claim is true or not, but I suspect it probably is. I've used this thread to try and find out one way or the other.

I promise I will try to find some classical Arabic literature in English for you.

I meant it the other way round! You've gone to the trouble of looking for classic works of Western literature in Arabic, so how about I look for Arabic classics in English? So far, it certainly looks like there are big limitations on both sides, although I have been able to find in English loads of works by and about al-Ghazali, al-Tabari, Avicenna (Ibn Sina), Averroes (Ibn Rushd), Moses Maimonides , as well as obvious texts like the One Thousand And One Nights, the Qur'an and the hadith literature.

Al-Hariri's work looks like just the kind of thing I love - I'm a sucker for word-play, cryptic crosswords and things like that. So, besides the Assemblies, what other works did he write?

the dislike I find many Arabs have about Kant is that some of his work comes across as being anti-Semitic.

I've got to admit, that has surprised me. Firstly (and there's no easy way to say this) because every single Arab I have spoken to about it in person has been virulently anti-Semitic to a degree that is shocking, and secondly because Kant's undoubted anti-Semitism has very little to do with his philosophy. Here's one philosopher's view on the matter.

Peace

 

[Muezzin]

Semite
1847, "Jew, Arab, Assyrian, Aramæan," from Mod.L. Semita, from L.L. Sem "Shem," one of the three sons of Noah (Gen. x:21-30), regarded as the ancestor of the Semites (in the days when anthropology was still bound by the Bible), from Heb. Shem. Semitic (1813 of languages, 1826 of persons) is probably from Ger. semitisch (first used by Ger. historian August Schlözer, 1781), denoting the language group that includes Hebrew, Arabic, Aramaic, Assyrian, etc. In recent use often with the specific sense "Jewish," but not historically so limited.

anti-Semitism
1881, from Ger. Antisemitismus, first used by Wilhelm Marr in 1880, from anti- + Semite (q.v.). Not etymologically restricted to anti-Jewish theories, actions or policies, but almost always used in this sense. Those who object to the inaccuracy of the term might try H. Adler's Judaeophobia (1882).

Online Etymology Dictionary

That site is great.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

None of that is news to me, Muezzin, and I don't really see how it's relevant, to be honest.

Sorry if I sound a little harsh, I'm just saying what I mean.

Peace

 

[Muezzin]

Nah, that's not harsh. You're an English teacher - I'd be surprised if you didn't know the above.

It's more for the benefit of others who might not know the word's origin. Also, it's the only explanation I have, if we're operating on the somewhat impolite assumption that Arab people are all anti-Jewish.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Also, it's the only explanation I have, if we're operating on the somewhat impolite assumption that Arab people are all anti-Jewish.

Yes, I admit it's very impolite. Unfortunately, it happens to be the truth in my personal experience. I've taught about 150 Arabic chaps over the years, mainly in Arab-only classes, and any anti-Jewish statement made by a student in those classes would instantly be given assent by the others, in every case. At one point we had a Jewish lady in the school, having lessons in another class. We deliberately kept this fact away from the Arabic guys out of genuine fear for her safety if they found out.

Perhaps I haven't met enough Arabic people, but what can I say in the face of my experiences?

Peace

 

[Muezzin]

I don't want to derail the thread any further. I do hope that this translation initiative will help people to open their minds.

That goes for translations of literature into all major languages, be it Arabic, English, French, whatever. Communication is the key.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I don't want to derail the thread any further.

Ahem, good point!

Communication is the key.

Absolutely. I'm beginning to think that it's no wonder Islam and the West have moved so far apart if they haven't been reading each other's literatures for so long.

That's why I'm going to start reading al-Hariri's Assemblies as soon as I get the chance, and if you're an Arabic speaker, you could have a go at, ooh, I don't know, Lord of the Rings?

Peace

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

You misunderstand - the claim is about translating works from ALL other foreign languages, not just English.

I don't see why that should restrict their intelligence?

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I don't see why that should restrict their intelligence?

I don't think anyone's suggesting that, simply that (if the claim is true) it means that Arabic society is very insular, and less likely to have kept up with intellectual developments in the rest of the world. It wouldn't mean that Arabs as a whole were less intelligent, just less informed.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Al-Hariri's work looks like just the kind of thing I love - I'm a sucker for word-play, cryptic crosswords and things like that. So, besides the Assemblies, what other works did he write?


I've got to admit, that has surprised me. Firstly (and there's no easy way to say this) because every single Arab I have spoken to about it in person has been virulently anti-Semitic to a degree that is shocking, and secondly because Kant's undoubted anti-Semitism has very little to do with his philosophy. Here's one philosopher's view on the matter.

Peace

One of his best works of al-Hariri that has not been translated is "Mulhat al-I'rab Fi Al-Nahw" which is an epic poem dealing with the Arabic language, it also contains an excellent commentary by him, it is a combination of grammar education, satire and humor.

The Assemblies is just a very small portion of his masterpiece "Maqamat" which is actually a multi volume collection of all of his tales. "The Assemblies" seems to be only about 10% of the total work.


Antisemitism is not just anti-Jewish although in modern usage that is what it often applies to. The Arabs are also semitic.