truthseeker63's Corner [Clarification about Islam]

[Muslim Woman]

Salam

as for evidence in general see Bukhari 5345:....Come. Let me write a document for you after which you will never go astray.

may be , Prophet pbuh meant he will dictate and someone will write that.


When Quran cleary states that he was unlettered , we must not debate about that .



And Allah Knows Best.




Quran is the only book in the world that is memorized by millions among them many are non-Arabs .


They remember the whole Quran when they don't even understand the language . Is not it amazing ?




Also Allah says : “If mankind and the jinn were to gather together to produce the like of this Quran, they could never produce the like thereof, even if they backed up one another.” [Quran 17:88]


What more we can ask for to be a miracle ?

 

[Ali Mujahidin]

I absolutely and totally believe that the Holy Quran is a miracle. Miracle meaning that it is absolutely, totally, undoubtedly a gift from Allah swt sent through the Holy Prophet saw.

I think the problem here is that some people have their own definition of a miracle which is why they deny that the Holy Quran is a miracle. Maybe I am thinking wrongly. I am waiting for a clarification from those who do not believe that the Holy Quran is a miracle to state clearly what they define as a miracle.

 

[alcurad]

@alcurad

I am sorry but you have lost me there somewhere. Please give YOUR definition of a miracle so that I can get a better idea of what you are talking about.

An event that suspends/violates the known laws of nature, anyone witnessing it can have no doubt about the veracity of the claims of the one/s through whom it occurred.

Case in point: the staff of Moses, it was a mundane staff that then turned into a serpent.

Compare this with the Qur'an, first of all it is something that is heard or read, and so must be understood by the listener/reader, no one except the prophet saw the angel coming down etc.. Is it not different from the very corporeal or even visceral effect of an ordinary staff turning into a living creature right in front of people's eyes? I'm arguing that this particular nuance is lost when we call the Qur'an 'miracle'

----

also, (7:157) Those who follow the apostle, the ummi Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper

The word ummi -which some have translated as unlettered- is not mentioned in isolation, the verse speaks of the ummi prophet who the People of the Book find mentioned in their scripture
Now the question is: where does it mention in the scriptures of the People of the Book that there will be sent an unlettered apostle?

Rather, ummi is a general term referring to people who are not from Bani Israel (Jews). That some put unlettered as translation for ummi should by no means make people forget that any particular English translation is not the authoritative version of the Qur'an.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Now the question is: where does it mention in the scriptures of the People of the Book that there will be sent an unlettered apostle? .

Allah says so and you are challenging the verse ? That's really strange brother . Pl. be careful about your questions.

If Prophet pbuh knew how to write , then surely he must have written down the revealation by himself but he never did that .

And Allah Knows Best.

 

[Ramadhan]

The word ummi -which some have translated as unlettered- is not mentioned in isolation, the verse speaks of the ummi prophet who the People of the Book find mentioned in their scripture
Now the question is: where does it mention in the scriptures of the People of the Book that there will be sent an unlettered apostle?

Here:

Isaiah 29:12

King James Version (KJV)



[SUP]12[/SUP]And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.



Also, please read the next verse QS 7:158:

Sahih International
Say, [O Muhammad], "O mankind, indeed I am the Messenger of Allah to you all, [from Him] to whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. There is no deity except Him; He gives life and causes death." So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the unlettered prophet, who believes in Allah and His words, and follow him that you may be guided.
Muhsin Khan
Say (O Muhammad SAW): "O mankind! Verily, I am sent to you all as the Messenger of Allah - to Whom belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth. La ilaha illa Huwa (none has the right to be worshipped but He); It is He Who gives life and causes death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger (Muhammad SAW), the Prophet who can neither read nor write (i.e. Muhammad SAW) who believes in Allah and His Words [(this Quran), the Taurat (Torah) and the Injeel (Gospel) and also Allah's Word: "Be!" - and he was, i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) son of Maryam (Mary)], and follow him so that you may be guided."
Pickthall
Say (O Muhammad): O mankind! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah to you all - (the messenger of) Him unto Whom belongeth the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth. There is no Allah save Him. He quickeneth and He giveth death. So believe in Allah and His messenger, the Prophet who can neither read nor write, who believeth in Allah and in His Words, and follow him that haply ye may be led aright.
Yusuf Ali
Say: "O men! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided."

And QS. 29:48

Sahih International
And you did not recite before it any scripture, nor did you inscribe one with your right hand. Otherwise the falsifiers would have had [cause for] doubt.
Muhsin Khan
Neither did you (O Muhammad SAW) read any book before it (this Quran), nor did you write any book (whatsoever) with your right hand. In that case, indeed, the followers of falsehood might have doubted.
Pickthall
And thou (O Muhammad) wast not a reader of any scripture before it, nor didst thou write it with thy right hand, for then might those have doubted, who follow falsehood.
Yusuf Ali
And thou wast not (able) to recite a Book before this (Book came), nor art thou (able) to transcribe it with thy right hand: In that case, indeed, would the talkers of vanities have doubted.

​

​

 

[MustafaMc]

That's why I said 'probably'

as for evidence in general see Bukhari 5345:

I was unable to find this hadith.

No I don't, where did you get that idea from?

When you wrote, "The Qur'an is not strictly a miracle". I can understand we have a different understanding of 'miracle', but according to Merriam-Webster it is 'an extraordinary event manifesting divine intervention in human affairs'. You seem to have in mind something that you can see that one can't explain naturally, but why exclude what you hear. I see that Allah (swt) revealing the Quran to Muhammad (saaws) is in and of itself a miracle because I have never known or heard of anyone else who Allah (swt) has spoken to unless you consider some lunatic like Sam Berkowitz who claimed God told him to kill people with a .44 magnum.

Now I ask you this: Did the early believers accept Islam because the Qur'an was a 'miracle' or because they were moved by it's sublime language and convinced by the arguments it brought forth?

Let me ask you again: where in the Qur'an itself do we find it calling itself 'miracle'? where do we find the prophet calling the Qur'an a 'miracle'?

Saying it's a miracle suggests something like the staff of Moses which it is not, I object to the label 'miracle' because there is a nuance which is entirely missed if we call it that

Instead let's call it what it calls itself:
(3:138) A plain statement to men, a guidance and instruction to those who fear God.

Did Muhammad (saaws) compose or make up what he claimed to have received from Allah (swt) through Jibrael? What is the source for the ayah 'Ta ha', 'Alif, lam, meem', 'Ya seen' etc? What do they mean and who was so impressed with them that they became a Muslim? The method of guidance to unbelievers is irrelevant to it being miraculous or not. I insist that receiving a divine revelation is a miracle whereby Allah (swt) intervened directly into history and irrefutably altered human affairs.

This ayat seems to imply that the Quran confirming what is in earlier scriptures is a miracle. 20:133 And they say: If only he would bring us a miracle from his Lord! Has there not come unto them the proof of what is in the former scriptures?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Here:

Isaiah 29:12

King James Version (KJV)



[SUP]12[/SUP]And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

thanks for posting this . I wonder , about whom they believe the verse revealed ?

 

[Ramadhan]

thanks for posting this . I wonder , about whom they believe the verse revealed ?

Well if christians believe in their own bible, that verse cannot have been about Jesus (pbuh), as according to the canonical gospels, Jesus could read and write. For example this verse:
When he came to the village of Nazareth, his boyhood home, he went as usual to the synagogue on the Sabbath and stood up to read the Scriptures. (Luke 4:16)
There are other gospel verses that show prophet Jesus (pbuh) read and wrote.

Now contrast the Isaiah verse:
[SUP]12[/SUP]And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

with this hadith:
"Read!", and Muhammad replied: "I cannot read". Jib’reel then held Him tightly for the third time and said to him: "Read!" and Muhammad replied again: "I cannot read", thereupon Jib’reel said to him: Read: In the Name of Thy Lord Who Created, Created Man From A Clot. Read: And Thy Lord is The Most Bounteous, Who Teaches By The Pen, Teaches Man That Which He Knew Not. (Al'Alaq 96/1-5)

 

[truthseeker63]

Can someone please tell me if this is the right definition of Zina ?

Your Question: i want to know the exact definition of zina in the light of sunnah and hadithIn legal terms and in the Shariah Courts of this world, only if the male organ has actually entered into the female organ, it would constitute a case of ‘zina’.

http://www.islamhelpline.com/node/3305

 

[FS123]

Well if christians believe in their own bible, that verse cannot have been about Jesus (pbuh), as according to the canonical gospels, Jesus could read and write. For example this verse:
When he came to the village of Nazareth, his boyhood home, he went as usual to the synagogue on the Sabbath and stood up to read the Scriptures. (Luke 4:16)
There are other gospel verses that show prophet Jesus (pbuh) read and wrote.

Now contrast the Isaiah verse:
[SUP]12[/SUP]And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.

with this hadith:
"Read!", and Muhammad replied: "I cannot read". Jib’reel then held Him tightly for the third time and said to him: "Read!" and Muhammad replied again: "I cannot read", thereupon Jib’reel said to him: Read: In the Name of Thy Lord Who Created, Created Man From A Clot. Read: And Thy Lord is The Most Bounteous, Who Teaches By The Pen, Teaches Man That Which He Knew Not. (Al'Alaq 96/1-5)

Read the surrounding verses, it is not about a prophecy about a prophet. The verse is rebuking peoples behavior against scripture.

For you this whole vision is nothing but words sealed in a scroll. And if you give the scroll to someone who can read, and say to him, "Read this, please," he will answer, "I can't; it is sealed." Or if you give the scroll to someone who cannot read, and say, "Read this, please," he will answer, "I don't know how to read." The Lord says: "These people come near to me with their mouth and honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. Their worship of me is made up only of rules taught by men.

 

[FS123]

Can someone please tell me if this is the right definition of Zina ?

Your Question: i want to know the exact definition of zina in the light of sunnah and hadithIn legal terms and in the Shariah Courts of this world, only if the male organ has actually entered into the female organ, it would constitute a case of ‘zina’.

http://www.islamhelpline.com/node/3305

According to Quran, it is the actual intercourse, but it is wiser to stay away completely.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Read the surrounding verses, it is not about a prophecy about a prophet. The verse is rebuking peoples behavior against scripture.
.

I read in a book , most probably it was written by late Ahmed Deedat that Indian Christians used ' She ' when refer to Paraclete ; so that Muslims can't claim that it is about Prophet Muhammed pbuh.

May be , same type of changes made here also ?

And Allah knows Best.

 

[FS123]

I read in a book , most probably it was written by late Ahmed Deedat that Indian Christians used ' She ' when refer to Paraclete ; so that Muslims can't claim that it is about Prophet Muhammed pbuh.

May be , same type of changes made here also ?

And Allah knows Best.

Maybe.