truthseeker63's Corner in Comparative religion

peace Bro truthseeker

truthseeker63 said:
I agree but how do we know Christianity has 3 gods ?
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1- I think the question is formulated incorrectly....
careful reading to the Quran shows that it accuses christians not with believing in 3 gods ,Christians place other beings alongside the true God, making 2 partners (jesus,holy spirit) alongside the 1 and only God (they call him the father and consider him as just one aspect of the diety) ..... .more importantly ,as I said before , trinity is just a part of the whole of what Islam views as christianity problems with monotheism , as the condemnation of the trinity comes within a bigger context that include shirk of every color including the worship of Jesus and that of Mary and other numerous saints ......

so it is incorrect if a muslim says christians worship 3 gods as that would denote that Allah is god .... but the correct formula would be :
Allah (God) + jesus (god) + holy spirit (god) = shirk

2- How would we know that such accusation (trinity isn't monotheistic) is right?

the validity of such accusation depends on the validity of the Quran as trustworthy divine scripture .... if the Quran is the word of God then the accusation is true ,if not otherwise....

the same way how would you know that the formula
father (God) + jesus (God) + holy spirit (God) = monotheism

be correct?

again the validity of such assertion depends on the validity of the new testament as a trustworthy divine scripture .... if the new testament is the word of God then the accusation is true ,if not otherwise....

the divine being is not an object to be analyzed in a laboratory ...it is a matter of faith ..
 
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[h=2]Thursday, March 17, 2005[/h][h=3]Reply to a Muslim Apologist Concerning the Two Natures of Christ and Trinitarianism (vs. Shabir Ally)Critique of the full text of the paper, Was Jesus Perfect God and Perfect Man at the Same Time? (from the web page, Islam Answers Back). Mr. Ally's words will be in blue.The doctrine cannot be stated in any way that is free from contradictions. It is impossible for Jesus to have been perfect man and perfect God at the same time, for this would mean that he was finite and infinite at the same time, that he was fallible and infallible at the same time. This cannot be.
Mr. Ally's "logic" here is "what cannot be." This is simply not a contradiction because it is one person having two natures, one of which is finite and the other infinite. It would be like saying that of my two arms, one has unlimited power and can lift anything in the universe, while the other does not. That's not contradictory; it is simply a differentiation between the two arms. A true contradiction would be something like saying that "one arm can lift anything in the universe and cannot do so, at the same time." Likewise, Jesus has two natures, rather than one, as we have. He is both God and man. As God, He has infinite capacities; as man, He does not. He can, therefore, do some things as God and others as a man, with the usual limitations we are all subject to.
Thus, if Jesus indeed had two natures, as we believe, the difficulty is resolved. If He had one nature that possessed contradictory properties, then there would be a problem. Therefore, the discussion comes down to the possibility or impossibility of God becoming a man who possesses both a divine and a human nature (and the antecedent question of what a nature is). More on this below, concerning God becoming man, and whether this is logically and actually possible or not . . .

http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2005/03/reply-to-muslim-apologist-concerning.html

Can anyone debunk or refute the above claim that Jesus having two natures God and man is like a person having one arm that can lift things and one arm that cannot ?

[/h]
 
The above is in going some philosophical acrobatics which is just waste of time imo, think with common sense. Wouldn't God made the religion common sense? I recommend reading Dr Lang's book "Even Angel's Ask." Most important chapters are 2, 4, and 5. Chapter 2 covers the background and reasoning behind Islam's articles of faith. Chapter 4 & 5 goes into understanding the rituals in Islam like salat and fasting. Here is an ebook: http://www.islamicbulletin.com/free_downloads/new_muslim/even_angels_ask.pdf

Not sure that free download is with permission or not, but if you like the book order it on amazon so publisher get some money.

Regards,
 
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My understanding is that Christians believe in Allah (swt) as the One who Jesus (as) referred to in the Lord's Prayer as 'Our Father who art in Heaven' and who he also prayed to in the Garden of Gethsemane. They refer to Allah (swt) as the 'Father'. I have no problem with this except for the term 'Father' which implies parenthood to Allah, astaghfir'Allah.

Christians err greatly in ascribing divinity or 'godhood' to Jesus (as) as the 'Son of God' and literally as God incarnate. They worship Jesus as only Allah (swt) should be worshiped. One often hears Christians say the phrase, "Lord help me, Jesus!" and "Thank you, Jesus!" As a Protestant, and prior to my becoming a Muslim, I had a deep appreciation for the sacrifice that Jesus made on the cross from the perspective that God would come to earth, live a perfect life as a human and offer himself to die a terrible death on the cross as the perfect sacrifice to redeem me from my sins. As a Christian, my concept of God centered around Jesus - such was the confusion in my mind.

The 'Holy Spirit' is the nebulous third aspect of the Trinity, but rarely does this 'Person' enter into most Christians conscious thought. They see the Holy Spirit as an intimate indwelling of God and for their personal guidance.
 
:salamext:

Christians/Jews/Muslims/religion......whoever believes in God can only be referred to Allaah....as He is the ONLY God....
 
:salamext:

truthseeker63 said:
Can the Christian Trinity be proven to be 3 gods ? Doesn't 1+2+=3 ? What does everyone think ?
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Nope.

truthseeker63 said:
In my view the Christian Trinity is 3 gods.
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I'll try and explain it to you from my understanding - basically God by the Christians is viewed as 1, but in 3 different "beings". They say that God changed His form (Na'oodhubillah), into Jesus, then the Holy Spirit. Like Water is Solid, liquid, gas.

However, this belief of theirs is refuted by Dr. Zakir Naik:

 
Umm Ahlaam said:
I'll try and explain it to you from my understanding - basically God by the Christians is viewed as 1, but in 3 different "beings". They say that God changed His form (Na'oodhubillah), into Jesus, then the Holy Spirit. Like Water is Solid, liquid, gas.
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Yes, some Christians even myself tried explaining it that way but I said that it really doesn't explain God. Can any explain how God created the universe that man cannot measure? Can anyone explain how God always was? can anyone explain how He can see the past, present and future at the same time? God is one. The Bible says He is one; it states He is Spirit; therefore we can only conclude He is the Holy Spirit. God is one. We know that Jesus Christ is the Word. He is the Word of God. God's word is not another god just like my word is not another me or not my partner. Why God has chosen to make His Holiness and His word distinct persons I don't know or understand and it cannot be explained on this side of paradise. God is one. Christians were saying that before Muhammad was born!
Good night
:statisfie
 
The pagan Christianity's Trinity is the same as the Hindu's Trinity:

[h=2]Question One: Why does Hinduism have so many Gods?[/h]A: Hindus all believe in one Supreme God who created the universe. He is all-pervasive. He created many Gods, highly advanced spiritual beings, to be His helpers.

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/basics/tenq/tenq_1.html

Hindus claim to believe in One God yet they are Polytheists what makes the Christian Trinity any better on this subject ?
 
Re: The pagan Christianity's Trinity is the same as the Hindu's Trinity:

What do you think of the idea of comparing the Trinity to a shamrock and or a triangle since these are 3 in 1 ? Aldo in Islam is God a personal being meaning God has a mind and also since God is a personal being and the Trinity has 3 persons would this then mean that the 3 personal beings are 3 gods thanks is a reason as to why Jesus can't perfect God and perect man/human at the sametime is because this would be a contradiction and God does not contradict himdself it is not in his nature does the Holy Quran and or the Hadith say God does not contradict himself ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contradiction

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamrock

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle
 
This is a humoristic semi-serious treatise on the Trinity from a perspective of mathematical theology. :-) !!

And how could it be otherwise, this one matheological revelation will come to you in three parts.

Dedicated to all the great Muslim mathematicians of
all time = the past + the present + the future!
[one time] [another time] [and one more time]


Analogies can be misleading, but they are
the least misleading thing that we have.
Samuel Butler

One of the recurring ways of ridiculing the Trinity from the Muslim side (and some others too) is to present the equation

1 + 1 + 1 = 1

and then smile and think that is enough to expose the utter craziness of the concept and showing the completely illogical content of the Christian faith.

Now, it seems that the people which use this kind of reasoning are apparently stuck in their preschool education and have never heard that there are other operations one can perform on numbers than just addition.

1 x 1 x 1 = 1

wouldn't lend itself quite as well for the effect those people want to achieve. And the Trinity is a powerful revelation of the Almighty God, so "raising to the power of a number" might be an appropriate 'composition' for relating the 'three Ones' mathematically, which is giving us....

See the rest of the article.


Does make sense 1 + 1 + 1 = 1 is like 1 x 1 x 1 = 1 I always thought a way to disprove the Trinity was 1+1+1=3 would disprove the Christian Trinity of 1+1+1=1 am I wrong ?
 
I've never taken issue with the whole 3 in 1 deal regarding the Trinity. Where the trinity breaks down for me is when you take it as claimed and then apply it to the story. Absent the Trinity you have Jesus as champion of man making man's case to God (Much like the myth of Hercules). But with the Trinity, you've got God sacrificing himself to himself to convince himself to change his own mind regarding man. The trinity makes the story lose all coherency.

Never really saw the benefit of the trinity to the religion. What does it add that made the religion do better? Maybe the unnecessary incomprehensibleness makes it feel more mystical and mysterious and "holy"? Was never really bothered by the trinity aspect of the Christian religion. Far more concerned with the concept of vicarious redemption (that Jesus can die for a Christian's sins and apparently they can walk away taking no personal responsibility)
 
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Re: The pagan Christianity's Trinity is the same as the Hindu's Trinity:

truthseeker63 said:
What do you think of the idea of comparing the Trinity to a shamrock and or a triangle since these are 3 in 1 ?
Click to expand...

I've heard the shamrock one (clover). I prefer the water one; that God is like water and can be triune, like water can be solid, liquid or gas. Three forms, same thing.
 

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