Trying to understand

[snakelegs]

If you had a tough time making friends, just try to think of all the good things you can do to accomplish your own destruction... Like helping out good people like this: Acting Palestinian Legislative Council Speaker Sheikh Ahmad Bahr, From Hamas, In Friday Sermon in Sudan

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1178020746583&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

:rollseyes

 

[Woodrow]

The person who claims they have a duty to emulate a higher being and follow higher rules, and then doesn't?

My expectation is that if religion is so beneficial that it must be forced on all (as is the belief of many Moslems, then it follows adherents to it should be better people. If religious beliefs make you less tolerant, more violent, then of what good is it?

The person who claims they have a duty to emulate a higher being and follow higher rules, and then doesn't?

we do have a specific name for them. we call them hypoctites and they are not very well thought of.

My expectation is that if religion is so beneficial that it must be forced on all (as is the belief of many Moslems, then it follows adherents to it should be better people. If religious beliefs make you less tolerant, more violent, then of what good is it?

The true teaching of that is:

2:256. Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things. S P C


Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

I doubt if you know of any person who was forced to be a Muslim. I doubt if you have ever even had a Muslim ask you to become a Muslim.

 

[جوري]

So much for freedom from religion......

 

[don532]

Here sister a way for you to recognize a toxic person... Thus with any luck try avoiding them....
They kneel to a Porcelain god then imbue whatever info. it dishes out to them, by way of osmosis-- sometimes direct suction-- then when they are all filled up-- they hurl it out on various forums...

peace!

I haven't followed the whole thread, but as stated by a comedian I have heard, it don't matter who ya are, that's funny, right there. Good one, Ambrosia.

I hope you don't own the rights to that. I'd like to use it in the future.

 

[Woodrow]

That's fine. Honorable even. It just seems to be the exception.

Theists define outside of theism any group that engages in behavior later deemed to be considered anti-thetical to the theism in question. For instance, Hitler was not banished from the Catholic Church (the Vatican) at all during his reign. Only AFTER he was vanquished and only after the world expressed outrage at his acts of brutality, and only AFTER the deaths of over 20 million people in WW2 did the theists start to argue that "Hitler wasn't religious".

Yes he was. And his totalitarian views and hatreds grew from his religious upbringing.

This is merely an expansion of Jaques Maritains ill-conceived notion that if one is not a Catholic, one is an atheist by definition, and if one is an atheist by definition, one is also mentally insane by definition. Hitler was religious, he proclaimed it publically, and theists can claim he wasn't until the sun goes out and it won't change the fact that he was.

We are seeing the same thing with Islam now -- "Oh," they cry, "These terrorists hijacked and perverted Islam".

Well, no they didn't. One can make the case that the Quran calls for jihad against the infidel. Moslems have also to come to grips with the fact that their religious views can be a wellspring of divisiveness and hatred. Any belief system that asserts, "Believe in this or be condemned to everlasting torment" will have precisely such an effect.




Then how does one reconcile that with:

1. Qur'an & Sunnah [Examples of Islam's "light of justice and glory."]:
o Say: "You people! I am God's emissary to you all..." —Qur'an 7:158

o Fight against such of those to whom the Scriptures were given as believe in neither God nor the Last Day, who do not forbid what God and His apostle have forbidden, and do not embrace the true Faith, until they pay tribute out of hand and are utterly subdued. —Qur'an 9:29

o It is He who has sent forth His apostle with guidance and the True Faith that he may exalt it above all religions, though the idolaters abhor it. —Qur'an 9:33

o We have sent you forth to all mankind, so that you may give them good news and forewarn them. But most men have no knowledge. —Qur'an 34:28

o This is but an admonition: an eloquent Koran to exhort the living and to pass judgment on the unbelievers. —Qur'an 36:70

o Allah’s Apostle said, ‘I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah. Whoever says this will save his property and his life from me." —Sahih Bukhari 84.59

2.Sunnah:

o Yahya related to me from Malik from Zayd ibn Aslam that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "If someone changes his deen [faith, religion —ed.] - strike his neck!" —Muwatta Malik 36.18.15

o I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah's Apostle, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." —Sahih Bukhari 84.57

3.Qur'an & Sunnah, et al.:

o Those that believe in God and the Last Day will not beg you to exempt them from fighting with their wealth and with their persons. —Qur'an 9:44

o Therefore fight for the cause of God You are accountable for none but yourself. Rouse the faithful: perchance God will overthrow the might of the unbelievers. Mightier is God and more terrible is His punishment. —Qur'an 4:84

o I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: A group of people from my Umma will continue to fight in obedience to the Command of Allah, remaining dominant over their enemies. Those who will oppose them shall not do them any harm. They will remain ill in this condition until the Hour [al-Qiyamah—the Last Day, Day of Judgment —ed.] overtakes them. —Sahih Muslim, 20.4721

o "We are those who have given a pledge of allegiance to Muhammad that we will carry on Jihad as long as we live." —Bukhari, 4.87

o Defense of Muslim Lands, Ch. 4, Sheikh Abduallh Azzam

o A bearded young man named Nurullah, introducing himself as a student, pointed to a fresh board nearby that has been prepared for the names of the latest martyrs, men who died fighting with the Taliban after Sept. 11, and said, "Jihad will continue until doomsday, or until America is defeated, either way." —Bin Laden Stirs Struggle on Meaning of Jihad, NY Times, January 27, 2002




As you do, I live in the U.S. where our secular laws prevent anyone from forcing religion on anyone else. Freedom of religion is default freedom from religion.

There is no state mandated religion which does in fact compel religious belief.

Quite a list. Actually they are the very same type questions that kept me from reverting until I was 65 years old. I am not going to even attempt to answer all of them at this moment. Each of these points has been discussed on this forum many times.

I will just touch briefly and state that to understand those quotes you need to take them in full context of what they were written in reference to and that they are not stand alone quotes.

 

[جوري]

I haven't followed the whole thread, but as stated by a comedian I have heard, it don't matter who ya are, that's funny, right there. Good one, Ambrosia.

I hope you don't own the rights to that. I'd like to use it in the future.

I know this if off topic-- but I could hardly contain myself while posting it-- it really seemed to fit... I went to get money from the ATM 20mins ago and thought-- so this is what it means to laugh all the way to the bank?...
You are allowed to use it any time... though honest truth to G-D it was my own work.. well-- save for the demonstration of course! I actually thought it was drawn in good taste..:laugh:

peace to you D

 

[aamirsaab]

A page and a half later yet still no answer.

Yawn.

 

[jzcasejz]

That whole issue has to do with a tribal war and has nothing to do with Islam.

This thread was made after that dude saw a video and thought it was in the name of Islaam. But the quote above clearly proves him wrong...so I guess this thread is done 'n' dusted.

:threadclo <-- Just kidding.

JazakAllaah Khayr Woodrow. =] :thumbs_up

 

[Woodrow]

Agreed.