Turkey protesters hold Istanbul square after days of violent clashes

[Perseveranze]

I do not believe any Muslim, any true Muslim, should be supporting the protesters.

Erdogan is no Muslim Hero, but he's making positive reforms to give Islam more freedom. Apart from arguably Abdul Hamid II, no one's made as much Religious (and Non-Religious) reforms/progressiveness for Turkey in the past 100 years as Erdogan has. For this reason, Muslims (outside Turkey at least) will always be in support of him when he's against Secularist/Kemalists. It doesn't matter if one considers him "Authoritarian" or a "dictator", with the current mindset of the people, no one will be able to replace him if he goes, especially one who favours Islam.

Personally have no support for the protesters (even though they're against "Islamism, rather than Islam itself"), nor do I believe true Muslims would support them either. I also don't believe these few thousand represent the 70 million Turkish population, where many of the ultra conservative and Government supporters for now, are keeping a low profile. But, things will get very interesting if they decide to come out.

Turks in general have a very secular/Kemalist ideology, which tends to be brainwashed into them from a very young age. Restrictions of women wearing the Hijab, and on the age of when someone is "allowed to learn about Islam/Qur'an" are some of many anti-Islamic regulations embedded in the constitution, enforced by the secularist elites.

Having said that, the situation is improving in regards to the mentalities of many. For example, Kemalism is dying, whilst religiosity is on the rise, which I hope can continue.

Anyways, for Muslims, if you want further reasons as to why you shouldn't support the protests, then check this.

 

[the_stranger]

I do not believe any Muslim, any true Muslim, should be supporting the protesters.

From where did you receive the authority to question anybody's faith?

It doesn't matter if one considers him "Authoritarian" or a "dictator",

Dictatorships are acceptable as long as the dictator claims the same religion as you do?

 

[جوري]

If their beliefs and protests are for non-Islamic values then it isn't difficult to judge their faith.
There are ten things that put one outside the fold of Islam and beneath them are 44 articles. Those so-called protesters are in breech of all of them. That's how we know!

 

[the_stranger]

If their beliefs and protests are for non-Islamic values then it isn't difficult to judge their faith.

How is inquiring as to whether or not a government is attempting to abuse their power non-Islamic?

If you read me earlier posts you will see that my initial impression is that the protesters are opposed to Islamic law in an Islamic nation, which I am opposed to not only as a Muslim, but as a human being.

What I am questioning is whether or not the abuse of power that Independent mentioned earlier is accurate. If it turns out that he is abusing his power in order to further his personal agenda, then who is to say that he won't abandon the Muslim community when it suits his needs? It is important to be critical of powerful men. If you want to see what happens when too much power is in one pair of hands, then you need only to look at the American invasion of Iraq.

I take great offense to brothers and sisters questioning my faith simply because I do not automatically assume that a men in powerful positions always have the best intentions. It saddens me deeply to know how quickly one Muslim will turn on another over a political matter that is still developing. I think I will soon be exiting this forum.

 

[جوري]

If you read me earlier posts you will see that my initial impression is that the protesters are opposed to Islamic law in an Islamic nation, which I am opposed to not only as a Muslim, but as a human being.

You can't be opposed to that and be a Muslim!
So I guess we know all we need to know. There's no separation of church & state in Islam!

best,

 

[the_stranger]

You can't be opposed to that and be a Muslim!

I'll assume that English is not your first language, and that you did not read my earlier posts.

I'll repeat in more simple language: If protester is against Islamic law in Islamic nation, then I am not a friend of protester.

 

[جوري]

I'll assume that English is not your first language, and that you did not read my earlier posts.

I'll repeat in more simple language: If protester is against Islamic law in Islamic nation, then I am not a friend of protester.

I guess it isn't your first language either given this:

If you read me earlier posts you will see that my initial impression is that the protesters are opposed to Islamic law in an Islamic nation, which I am opposed to not only as a Muslim, but as a human being.

How should I understand that in simplified terms?


your faith is your own business otherwise, do you have something to prove?
best,

 

[Perseveranze]

From where did you receive the authority to question anybody's faith?

Anyone who's against Islamic reforms should question their own faith.

Dictatorships are acceptable as long as the dictator claims the same religion as you do?

1. I never said he's a dictator.

2. Even if he was a dictator, someone who is trying to bring Islam in a heavily anti-Islamic society is perfectly acceptable. The alternative here is someone "who's not a dictator, but brings further anti-islam reforms", which is something no Muslim should accept.

edit: After reading your other posts, you sound like another brainwashed modernist. And just so you know, myself and many others are heavily anti-Erdogan, simply because he doesn't do enough for Islam (though admittingly, everytime he does try, the Secularist courts overturn his decisions), but in this case, we're all in favour of him against those who are against Islam and in favour of Secularist/Kemalists ideology.

May Allah destroy those who are in support of restrictions upon Islam.

 

[the_stranger]

Are there any literate members who would like to contribute to this thread?

 

[Signor]

I take great offense to brothers and sisters questioning my faith simply because I do not automatically assume that a men in powerful positions always have the best intentions. It saddens me deeply to know how quickly one Muslim will turn on another over a political matter that is still developing. I think I will soon be exiting this forum

Bro,Have you ever heard "Power Tends to corrupt and Absolute power corrupts absolutely"?This happens in Muslim countries too

I think you need to learn more about your own religion.

Br Perseverance,He is new to Islam.

 

[جوري]

Br Perseverance,He is new to Islam.

I guess that explains the fine manners!

 

[White Rose]

edit: After reading your other posts, you sound like another brainwashed modernist. And just so you know, myself and many others are heavily anti-Erdogan, simply because he doesn't do enough for Islam (though admittingly, everytime he does try, the Secularist courts overturn his decisions), but in this case, we're all in favour of him against those who are against Islam and in favour of Secularist/Kemalists ideology.

May Allah destroy those who are in support of restrictions upon Islam.

I think its good to not label people just like that. For you dont know who is trying their hardest to understand. Sometimes it takes a while to understand whats going on.

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

Regarding tyrants, there are some factors which doesnt allow us to go against him when he is a muslim and still prays but is an oppressor, even if he takes your house away. But when the tyrant is a kafir, then its allowed to speak out against him, especially when the kafir tyrant rules over a country with majority muslims. However its only with the will of Allah(SWT) that the tyrant gets removed or not, as some oppressors are placed to test the believers, as a punishment, or a calamity.

 

[the_stranger]

Bro,Have you ever heard "Power Tends to corrupt and Absolute power corrupts absolutely"?This happens in Muslim countries too

Yes, I have heard this. That is why it is imperative that people are critical of those who occupy positions of leadership. If this man is a proponent of Islam, as some say he is, then why are they so adamantly against taking a critical look at his actions? Surely, if the well-being of Islam is his only motivation, then it will not be difficult to dismantle arguments that suggest otherwise. Perhaps they are afraid that they may discover he is just another in a long line of world leaders who have used religion as a tool to increase their power. We will never know if we do not inquire.

 

[جوري]

I think its good to not label people just like that. For you dont know who is trying their hardest to understand. Sometimes it takes a while to understand whats going on.

I agree indeed sister, by why the insults along the way when it is something apparently more than one person picked up on?

 

[Jedi_Mindset]

Have patience with the brother, he is new to islam, remember when we are to impatient he might think otherwise and revert back to his old ways. The_stranger just ask some questions, we will properly answer them, but listen ok?

 

[Signor]

Yes, I have heard this. That is why it is imperative that people are critical of those who occupy positions of leadership. If this man is a proponent of Islam, as some say he is, then why are they so adamantly against taking a critical look at his actions? Surely, if the well-being of Islam is his only motivation, then it will not be difficult to dismantle arguments that suggest otherwise. Perhaps they are afraid that they may discover he is just another in a long line of world leaders who have used religion as a tool to increase their power. We will never know if we do not inquire.

Bro,I honestly don't know about Eradagon.Infact,the little i know was in his favor.Since after a long time,we saw a party rise in turkey on the name of Islam.But considering many ground realities,you won't find steps in actual,Turkey is still considered to be the most secular among Muslim countries.They remove their clothes off and did every thing in there hands just to join EU.In recent times,they have been siding with israel.These are only a few basis why they are hated.You are not exposed to Islam in consideration to turkey(google Mustapha Kamal Pasha) and you will see after nearly a century,he is still ruling turkish minds.

As for protests,there is less weight for what protestors are raising their voices for.Offcourse,I am not in favour of human rights violations.

 

[the_stranger]

The_stranger just ask some questions, we will properly answer them, but listen ok?

Thank you, brother. I'm sure you will agree that if people in the West had been more critical of the actions of their leaders in the past, then the people of Palestine would not be suffering as they are now. The American people took their eyes off of their leaders, and now there is an extreme amount of power concentrated in one small part of the government. This small part of our government continues to support Israel's agenda.

Bro,I honestly don't know about Eradagon.

Neither do I. That is why I am here attempting to have an open discussion about the man and his actions. I am in full support of increased pro-Islamic legislation. It only makes sense that a nation populated almost entirely by Muslims should have laws that are a direct reflection of the religion. At no point did I say that I was opposed to the notion of Islamic law in Turkey, despite what some other members may have misread.

The question for which I am trying to find an answer is Why is Ergodan attempting to alter the nation's constitution in a way that would increase his personal power?

 

[GuestFellow]

Are there any literate members who would like to contribute to this thread?

I don't know why they are protesting. I do believe protesters should clean up their own mess.

 

[Perseveranze]

I think its good to not label people just like that. For you dont know who is trying their hardest to understand. Sometimes it takes a while to understand whats going on.

That's true, maybe I was a little too full on, so I apologise to thestrangers.

Guess he doesn't know the history or what it's like in Turkey, where women who wear black hijab's (where allowed) are abused and are called "kara Fatma" (black fatima), a word used to describe cockroaches. All this comes about from the brainwashed mentality Turks are taught from a young age, as Turkish brother explains;

Since my family is leaning towards democracy and secularism i spent my childhood listening to socialist,secularist people;some of them call women with black hijabs "kara Fatma" which literally means "black Fatima" but it is a name for cockroach.Most of them absolutely hate Arabs,sunnah beard,hijab,shariah;some of the most anti-Islam people are among turkish secularists....

in turkey Kemalism brainwashing begins in elementary school,up until the end of the military service which is compulsory for all males.now i am studying engineering in uni,but there are still two MANDATORY courses even in mech. eng. teaching "history of revolutions";more kemalist brainwashing (u know they teach ataturks revolutions).

But he said things are slowly improving, however, it's still very difficult given the kind of laws and restrictions that are currently enforced by the kemalist/secularist elite.