UK concert: Deaths after reported blast

[Simple_Person]

Hey, where have I said that we should be suspicious of one another? What I am arguing for is that if we hear someone say things that are wrong and that could lead the person down a bad path (example: someone who states that ISIS is good), we should talk with them instead of looking the other way and pretend that they didn't say anything. After all, if one of your friends expressed sudden disbelief in Islam, wouldn't you want to engage them and ask them why? Same logic applies here. You care for the person and you want to help them, so you try and prevent them from being 'misled' and doing something you consider to be very regrettable. If the person THEN discloses to you that they plan to do something that is obviously wrong (so now they want to act on their thoughts), for instance they say that they will blow themselves up in the near future, then you should act! After all, wouldn't you want to warn others to protect that idiot of his own life and potential victims, or do you want to have those potential victims' deaths on your conscious (and that idiot's too?), knowing that you did nothing to prevent something terrible from happening?

Imagine if a nut-job said that they wanted to commit a massacre at the place where a relative of yours works, but the person who heard them say that does nothing, and subsequently, the nut-job goes and does what he said he would do. Wouldn't you be angry at the person who did nothing and just shrugged it off?

(I will not reply to the rest of your post because it is completely wrong and off-topic).

Again you are making things as if somebody is wearing a T-shirt saying ISIS=good..and the day after wearing a t-shirt "I am a proud member of ISIS" or even make a appointment with you coming to tell you what they are planning to do.

That isn't the case and in my previous comment i have told you if somebody would approve ISIS, you would engage with them in dialogue. Some are just mislead which is common with people in general doesn't matter they must have a religion. However if somebody expresses sympathy towards ISIS in the sense of what they are doing is good in the present day (2017) (almost 3 years since their rising), that shows some ideas that are beyond repairing. If all this time NOTHING within their heart showed contradiction of what Islam says or just human nature says there is no way back for them. Which i already said one should go and warn the police.

Just recently i believe that i read a news article that SDF made a deal with ISIS in Tabaqah. The deal was that they could leave without anymore bloodshed. This is a REAL Islamic principle, doesn't matter who your enemy is. In the article it was said that about 70 ISIS members fled and US killed about 30 or 34 when they were fleeing. That is just barbaric and COWARD behavior of US. US later on said.."yeaah but we did not make that deal..it was SDF". I do not have any sympathy towards ISIS, but i do have principles and somebody who is fleeing should be left alone. Maybe later on they can realize how their life was spared and those that spared their lives aren't such evil people after all. In other words they start thinking straight and leave ISIS behind. Such people could even be very valuable assets in dismantling ISIS.

If one reads such news articles and if one has even a FEW principles, in ones eyes US is not even the slightest the good guy compared to ISIS. They are in my eyes just as barbaric and COWARDS like the guy that killed innocent people here with this concert. Every US soldier killed in battle sorry to say this, but i also see as less value. Some people might see me as "radical", sorry to say this, but they are doing the work of these corrupt western politicians and what i am saying is the truth and if you have even little bit of honesty you will even agree with me on this. If they till now of ALL THOSE wars still have not questioned US government, that is just blindly a sheep. Just like that so called Muslim guy with his wife that during presidency campaign in US, Clinton was using them to spread propaganda. Their son was killed in Iraq and they were branding him as a "hero" for fighting for US government as a Muslim. He is not even close to being a martyr. Allah has given people a brain to think, to analyze to question, yet money is more important for them than that.

Or even the guy in the movie "American Sniper", all i saw was a movie about a terrorist/criminal justifying killing innocent people/invading a country. Hollywood could as well make a movie about this guy that killed those innocent people at the concert and depict him as a hero. Well i would be angry for sure, just as how i was angry with that criminal/terrorist that was depicted as a hero in the movie "American Sniper". However people have double standards. For such people with double standards, being Muslim or person of other faith i do not feel sorry if they die. Such a evil people.

Wrong and offtopic? Well you say things that i see those IGNORANT Islam haters are spreading. I even leave those people alone and let them dig their own grave much deeper as there is no use to talk to them. However you are here on a Islamic forum spreading such propaganda.

 

[Serinity]

As a Muslim, I do not support the current ISIS, but, I do support the establishment of an Islamic State.

Maybe ISIS is even better than US in that US is much worse, because they invade countries, kill and rape, etc. And then try to act righteous.

Allahu alam.

 

[fromelsewhere]

As a Muslim, I do not support the current ISIS, but, I do support the establishment of an Islamic State.

Maybe ISIS is even better than US in that US is much worse, because they invade countries, kill and rape, etc. And then try to act righteous.

Allahu alam.

ISIS does not invade, kill and rape? ISIS does invade, kill and rape! Ask the Yazidis. Wait, they are dead.

Oh, and then ISIS claims to be following Islam. (Of course they are not!)

A link to a somewhat concerning Pew survey from 2013: http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

Although the majority of Muslims reject terrorism, a large enough minority is still ok with it. This is obviously quite problematic if we are to have world peace someday. We need to learn to live and let live. Suicide and murder is HARAM! End of story.

 

[Simple_Person]

ISIS does not invade, kill and rape? ISIS does invade, kill and rape! Ask the Yazidis. Wait, they are dead.

A link to a somewhat concerning Pew survey from 2013: http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

Although the majority of Muslims reject terrorism, a large enough majority are still ok with it. This is obviously quite problematic if we are to have world peace.

I am getting more and more sure of it you are being paid for spreading such comments and propaganda.

 

[fromelsewhere]

I am getting more and more sure of it you are being paid for spreading such comments and propaganda.

Absolutely not. I am surprised at how you reason. Also, what "propaganda" are you talking about? Do you think that I am wrong in claiming that ISIS are a bunch of loser idiots? Or do you think that the Pew survey is not good enough? You are welcome to do your own survey if you want.

 

[Serinity]

ISIS does not invade, kill and rape? ISIS does invade, kill and rape! Ask the Yazidis. Wait, they are dead.

Oh, and then ISIS claims to be following Islam. (Of course they are not!)

A link to a somewhat concerning Pew survey from 2013: http://www.pewglobal.org/2013/09/10/muslim-publics-share-concerns-about-extremist-groups/

Although the majority of Muslims reject terrorism, a large enough minority is still ok with it. (Note how the Pew survey report tries and makes things sound reassuring, but when you look at the numbers more closely, you notice that they are not that great). This is obviously quite nif we are to have world peace someday. We need to learn to live and let live. Suicide and murder is HARAM! End of story.

Unlike US, ISIS is honest about it.. Or it is propaganda. IDk, but US tries to act righteous when doing stuff like this - that is what I find disgusting.

They bomb and kill 10000s of innocents, and when a few 19 deaths in a UK concert dies, they go head over heels. It disgusts me.

Of course Suicide and murder is haram.

 

[fromelsewhere]

Unlike US, ISIS is honest about it.. Or it is propaganda. IDk, but US tries to act righteous when doing stuff like this - that is what I find disgusting.

They bomb and kill 10000s of innocents, and when a few 19 deaths in a UK concert dies, they go head over heels. It disgusts me.

Of course Suicide and murder is haram.

ISIS is honest? Come on! US airstrikes usually target and kill ISIS militants. They are not purposefully trying to kill civilians like terrorists are. But they are very clumsy and gross in their approach (and to some extent, it is not surprising as it is difficult to be precise when you target terrorists who are hiding in villages among civilians from high above). Saudi airstrikes in Yemen are comparable. They target Houthis but will occasionally make civilian victims as well. The alternative is NO intervention at all against ISIS. Is that better? I don't know.

This is NOT IN ANY WAY an excuse for US intervention in the ME as I think that the US clearly don't know what they are doing in the region and should not get involved AT ALL to begin with because they just end up making things worst by trying to play "god".

I think the US should be the very last country to get involved in the ME.

(I just want to stop the black-and-white thinking that is pervasive on here that Muslims are all good and Westerners are all evil and corrupt.)

 

[Simple_Person]

Absolutely not. I am surprised at how you reason. Also, what "propaganda" are you talking about? Do you think that I am wrong in claiming that ISIS are a bunch of loser idiots? Or do you think that the Pew survey is not good enough? You are welcome to do your own survey if you want.

This is exactly what those guys who spread propaganda do, they speak about obvious things when somebody confronts them, but not about those things things they know they are doing on purpose. Everybody knows ISIS are bunch of losers and people on this forum who SAY they are Muslims do already agree on this, nobody is arguing against it.

But all i see in your comments is how you depict especially the Muslims are the ones responsible. For example if you read my comment. I have said

- Corrupt western politicians/terrorists
- Sheep loser/terrorist soldiers that rather take money instead of asking questions and using their brains
- ISIS criminals/terrorists.
- Muslims who just follow blindly and don't understand anything about their religion and don't care to do so either

However reading your comments, all you repeat is..Muslims, ISIS..Muslims..ISIS. People who just do that in other words just blame other people and do not take in to consideration that there is MORE to the game than what meets the eye meet the criteria of probably being paid to do that. I have given you a clear analysis how come those corrupt western politicians are the core problem. People like ISIS will exist no matter what as the first rose even during the time of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and directly saying something that is unheard of against a prophet while saying he is a Muslim.

However it almost looks like you try to defend what the west is doing and rather make ISIS or Muslims the core problem of this. You do not give argument why your argument is rather valid and mine or others isn't but just repeat again what you said.

This is a typical behavior of those people that just want to spread propaganda. I welcome people of any religion on this forum for soul purpose of respectful and ESPECIALLY HONEST dialogue/discussion. However all you do is spread propaganda and depict Muslims as the core problem.

That to me shows that there is a BIG chance you are being paid to do this.

 

[Simple_Person]

ISIS is honest? Come on! US airstrikes usually target and kill ISIS militants. They are not purposefully trying to kill civilians like terrorists are. But they are very clumsy and gross in their approach (and to some extent, it is not surprising as it is difficult to be precise when you target terrorists who are hiding in villages among civilians from high above). Saudi airstrikes in Yemen are comparable. They target Houthis but will occasionally make civilian victims as well. The alternative is NO intervention at all against ISIS. Is that better? I don't know.

This is NOT IN ANY WAY an excuse for US intervention in the ME as I think that the US clearly don't know what they are doing in the region and should not get involved AT ALL to begin with because they just end up making things worst by trying to play "god".

I think the US should be the very last country to get involved in the ME.

(I just want to stop the black-and-white thinking that is pervasive on here that Muslims are all good and Westerners are all evil and corrupt.)

"US airstrikes usually target and kill ISIS militants and they are not purposefully trying to kill civilians like terrorists are?

 

[fromelsewhere]

I have given you a clear analysis how come those corrupt western politicians are the core problem. People like ISIS will exist no matter what as the first rose even during the time of prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and directly saying something that is unheard of against a prophet while saying he is a Muslim.

This is a typical behavior of those people that just want to spread propaganda. I welcome people of any religion on this forum for soul purpose of respectful and ESPECIALLY HONEST dialogue/discussion. However all you do is spread propaganda and depict Muslims as the core problem.

That to me shows that there is a BIG chance you are being paid to do this.

What clear analysis? You are just trying to attack the messenger (me) by saying that I am being paid and spreading propaganda rather than by directly arguing back on my points. There is no purpose in me arguing with you anymore.

 

[Simple_Person]

What clear analysis? You are just trying to attack the messenger (me) by saying that I am being paid and spreading propaganda rather than by directly arguing back on my points. There is no purpose in me arguing with you anymore.

You messenger? If you were just the messenger, it was as clear as daylight. However hiding under the banner of a messenger, doesn't make you a messenger, just like how journalists hide under the banner of freedom of journalism, freedom of speed etc..

 

[fromelsewhere]

^ Please stop with the random videos and conspiracy theories. It doesn't help your argument one bit about how evil the West is.

As a side note: of course there is a script for the news! Presenters read off a teleprompter. They don't just make things up! This is entirely normal, and it does not mean that the news is "fake".

 

[Muhammad]

It look like this thread is veering off-topic. In line with the announcement here, this thread is now closed.