UK troops brutally abuse Iraqi teens

Gun and rock is a big difference. That's probably why they weren't shot. The Brits figured shooting was too strong a reaction but an ass-beating might be a "learning" experience. Who knows ? It's still not bright to throw rocks at people with guns.
 
I dont think they really needed that beating at all. They were only children! They were just defending their land and trying to prevent soldiers like that from hurting anymore children. And the commentary wasn't that good either, now was it. He was swearing and laughing evily but why? I ask this again, do these people have a conscience at ALL?
 
I didn't get the audio on it. I'm not saying it was a cool thing to do. It doesn't serve any good purpose. But those kids are putting themselves in a very dangerous situation when they get out there and do that kind of stuff.
 
Yes you're absolutely right. But why dont you think about it this way, why did they start doing all the throwing in the first place? Why are there still soldiers in Iraq? Bush himself pretty much gave an apology and admitted to not finding any weapons of mass destruction. Okay so he said he got Saddam, but now he's gone. What's the excuse now?
 
Part of the reason we are still there is to keep a civil war from breaking out. I don't think we figured on this happening. Not only are Iraqis killing us, they're killing each other. The Shia are getting revenge on the Sunnis for all the years of abuse under Sadaam. There are some Iraqis who do recognise this and don't want us to leave just yet. I don't want us there one day longer than we need to be. But the Iraqi Army needs to get stronger so they can take care of themselves.
 
You're saying they cannot live together and that you're stopping a civil war but then what is the Iraqi army made up of? Both the sunni's a shia's together? If not, then how is having on dominant sect in the army going to help the country. And since this is still the thread about the UK troops brutally abusing the Iraqi teens, then how does kicking children help stop a civil war?
 
Yes, the Army is made of both sects. And Kurds, too. That is one of the problems they are having, getting enough guys who are willing to put past animosities behind and get on with building a new country. I do think if all foriegn troops left Iraq tomorrow, there would be chaos, big time.
 
I watched the beatings on the tape and could not believe that they could do that to kids, or any civilian for that matter. Kind of sick to watch. There is no justification for beating those kids.
As I said in other thread - real warriors don't fight with civilians.
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I agree completely. That is why palestinian fighters should not target israeli civilians, and Iraqi sunnis and shias should not kill each other, and u.s. soldiers should not beat up kids.
He was swearing and laughing evily but why? I ask this again, do these people have a conscience at ALL?
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seems like a few don't. You are right.
Salaam, These soldiers are cowards, bitting up kids....
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again, I absolutley agree. It is the same as a man with a bomb blowing up a woman and her children sitting beside him on a bus. All the hate sucks.
 
Hmmm, I mean, these kids, did throw rocks, and a rock could hurt, and I mean personally, if these soldiers were being stoned, then I dont see why it would be wrong to shoot, but....


Once the kids were detained, and all tied and bound, this is where the transgression begins as I see it.

No way, can countries who say we bring peace and democracy and so forth, then come with such armies who abuse, and attack and humiliate, enialate, disintergrate people under their authority, how can this type of army bring justice?

another evidence that these armies should first settle justice as they call it to their own places and to their own squads.

And who knows the number of times this happens :(
 
IsaAbdullah said:
Hmmm, I mean, these kids, did throw rocks, and a rock could hurt, and I mean personally, if these soldiers were being stoned, then I dont see why it would be wrong to shoot, but....

Once the kids were detained, and all tied and bound, this is where the transgression begins as I see it.

No way, can countries who say we bring peace and democracy and so forth, then come with such armies who abuse, and attack and humiliate, enialate, disintergrate people under their authority, how can this type of army bring justice?

another evidence that these armies should first settle justice as they call it to their own places and to their own squads.

And who knows the number of times this happens :(
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Soldiers are bad at keeping law and order. They were faced with rioters. They are not much older than the rock thrower - basically children just out of school. So they did wrong. This is somehow unexpected? The Egyptian police killed 57 Sudanese protesters the other day - peaceful ones too. Iraq has had a break down in law and order. There are no police. Justice will inevitably be rough and ready. I do not deny this is a bad thing, but in the global scale of injustice do you think this is the worst thing going on in the world at present? Do you even think it is the worst thing going on in the Arab world at present?

As for peace and democracy, why do you think something like that? It strikes me as naive to demand perfection to bring about justice. Sometimes, in fact most of the time, imperfect people make imperfect solutions. Sometimes those are better than what was there before. To take a parallel, the Americans fought World War Two with a segregated Army. Blacks were oppressed in the South. Britain fought with an Imperial Army and oppressed much of the Third World. Did they achieve a just outcome? Not perfect, but better than what was there before.

Can anyone doubt that whatever the stupidity and clumsiness that the Americans operate with, they intend to do for Iraq what they did for Japan - create a stable, peaceful, prosperous democratic country?
 
HeiGou said:
Soldiers are bad at keeping law and order. They were faced with rioters. They are not much older than the rock thrower - basically children just out of school. So they did wrong. This is somehow unexpected? The Egyptian police killed 57 Sudanese protesters the other day - peaceful ones too. Iraq has had a break down in law and order. There are no police. Justice will inevitably be rough and ready. I do not deny this is a bad thing, but in the global scale of injustice do you think this is the worst thing going on in the world at present? Do you even think it is the worst thing going on in the Arab world at present?

As for peace and democracy, why do you think something like that? It strikes me as naive to demand perfection to bring about justice. Sometimes, in fact most of the time, imperfect people make imperfect solutions. Sometimes those are better than what was there before. To take a parallel, the Americans fought World War Two with a segregated Army. Blacks were oppressed in the South. Britain fought with an Imperial Army and oppressed much of the Third World. Did they achieve a just outcome? Not perfect, but better than what was there before.

Can anyone doubt that whatever the stupidity and clumsiness that the Americans operate with, they intend to do for Iraq what they did for Japan - create a stable, peaceful, prosperous democratic country?
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And what you dont seem to understand is, Not everyone Agrees with democracy. You cant force people to agree with democracy. Islam is their religion and Islam is their law and you cant change that without a fight.
 
mahdisoldier19 said:
And what you dont seem to understand is, Not everyone Agrees with democracy. You cant force people to agree with democracy. Islam is their religion and Islam is their law and you cant change that without a fight.
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Yet the vast majority of people seem to love democracy. Even the majority of Iraqis. I agree, you cannot force people to agree with democracy, and if the Iraqis, or anyone else, wishes to elect a repressive dictatorship I am perfectly content with that. But I expect they will not do so if given a chance.

No one is suggesting that Islam ought to be replaced. I believe there is such a thing as Islamic democracy. Islamic law cannot cover all cases. There is a need for on-going interpretation and explanation. There is a need for "canon" law to make it clear what is acceptable in the modern period - all entirely consistently with Islam. Maududi talks about what an Islamic state can and cannot do in terms of law and I have no problems with that.

In fact I think that the cartoon fuss has been created as a deliberate attempt to stiffle democracy in the Middle East. Now the conservatives can point to the cartoons as a product of democracy without thinking about how the two can go together. We will see if most Arabs agree with them. I see the Egyptian government has delayed elections for two years. I bet most Egyptian Muslims would like to see more democracy.
 
HeiGou said:
Yet the vast majority of people seem to love democracy. Even the majority of Iraqis. I agree, you cannot force people to agree with democracy, and if the Iraqis, or anyone else, wishes to elect a repressive dictatorship I am perfectly content with that. But I expect they will not do so if given a chance.

No one is suggesting that Islam ought to be replaced. I believe there is such a thing as Islamic democracy. Islamic law cannot cover all cases. There is a need for on-going interpretation and explanation. There is a need for "canon" law to make it clear what is acceptable in the modern period - all entirely consistently with Islam. Maududi talks about what an Islamic state can and cannot do in terms of law and I have no problems with that.

In fact I think that the cartoon fuss has been created as a deliberate attempt to stiffle democracy in the Middle East. Now the conservatives can point to the cartoons as a product of democracy without thinking about how the two can go together. We will see if most Arabs agree with them. I see the Egyptian government has delayed elections for two years. I bet most Egyptian Muslims would like to see more democracy.
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Peace and blessings upon you

Thats problaly the smartest thing from my point of view that youve said to me so far haha keep it up
 
“Oppression is prohibited and opposing it is a duty. Zulm (unjust treatment) is one of the most prohibited acts because it defies Islam’s chief message of justice”
 
Its Funny

When A Muslim Kills Abuses Or Does Anything Like That They Are An Islamic Terrorist

When A Christian Or Jew Or Buddist Or Whatever Does The Same
Their Religion Is Never Mentioned

I Mean They Didn't Say Christian/jewish Troops Beat Up Children ,did They?

But If They Were Muslim...islamic Terrorist!!
 

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