Understanding the war in Afghanistan

[سيف الله]

Salaam

Have two videos from opposing sides about the conflict in Afghanistan, what do brothers and sisters think about it?

Found a short segement of American soliders talking about their experiences, I picked it because it seemed a lot more honest and direct. At least they stay away from the usual propoganda line.

And from the Mujahideen, finally a video that doesnt caricature them.

 

[User29123]

Ha I like the second one,

Taliban: We fight for our land, we fight for Allah, and Religion, What are the US fighting for? We did not do nothing to them..

I like the Humour too!

Taliban: "He is scared of us"
Taliban: "The same way we are scared of his bald-head!"

The ending was sad 2 out of his 3 kids died from US raids, the father survived, Kids were cute

 

[جوري]

la 7wla wla qiwta illa billah, rightfully they called them sons of ****s which they're and they have killed two out of his three kids, inna lillah wa'ina ilyhi raji3oon.. Should we shed tears over their kids those oppressive pigs? what are they doing in Afghanistan? or anywhere else in the region?.. may Allah swt aid our brothers and sisters fi mashariq al'ard wa'maghribha.. I think that Norwegian creep set a trap for them.. May Allah swt make Muslims victorious and make the sons of the devils defeated and gathered unto hell..

ameen ameen ameen, Allajouma ya mojeeb ad'du3a unsur ikhwanana fi mashariq al'ard wa'maghribha..

 

[Trumble]

It would be interesting to see the point of view of the Afghan forces opposed to and fighting the Taliban as well. Indeed, I would have thought essential for any sort of genuine 'understanding'.

 

[Who Am I?]

To think, I was one failed psychiatric test away from being in either Afghanistan or Iraq...

 

[جوري]

It would be interesting to see the point of view of the Afghan forces opposed to and fighting the Taliban as well. Indeed, I would have thought essential for any sort of genuine 'understanding'.

you know what I have always found very interesting.. When western troops go on invading, killing, maiming, raping, pillaging, destroying lives, children, crops, architecture, and history (as was the case with the treasures of Sumeria in Iraq) they're considered heroes, awarded medals, applauded for their courage rather than being appalled by.. when indigenous folks from any population that the enemy govt. decides that it doesn't recognize and forces to subjugate their puppet govt. to not recognize as well marginalize them and paint them in a most heinous fashion for DEFENDING themselves by the same means (if at all) is enough to stimulate western gag reflex and colossal outcries and in a most hypocritical fashion. The Afghans (taliban or not) didn't invade you then, they've not invaded you now, making the more interesting question here isn't how their own feel about them, but by what right are you there committing war crimes on daily basis and applauding yourself for it and going so far as thinking you're the good guys?

best,

 

[Who Am I?]

you know what I have always found very interesting.. When western troops go on invading, killing, maiming, raping, pillaging, destroying lives, children, crops, architecture, and history (as was the case with the treasures of Sumeria in Iraq) they're considered heroes, awarded medals, applauded for their courage rather than being appalled by.. when indigenous folks from any population that the enemy govt. decides that it doesn't recognize and forces to subjugate their puppet govt. to not recognize as well marginalize them and paint them in a most heinous fashion for DEFENDING themselves by the same means (if at all) is enough to stimulate western gag reflex and colossal outcries and in a most hypocritical fashion. The Afghans (taliban or not) didn't invade you then, they've not invaded you now, making the more interesting question here isn't how their own feel about them, but by what right are you there committing war crimes on daily basis and applauding yourself for it and going so far as thinking you're the good guys?

best,

History is full of examples like that.

Look at what the Europeans (and later the US) did to the indigenous population of the Americas. The natives were consistently painted as the "invading savages" when it was really the Europeans/USA that were the invaders. Even the natives who submitted to the "white man's rule" and lived on the reservations were still seen as enemies and were still subject to unfair treatment even after giving up their cultural identity and their ancestral way of life.

The Greeks and Romans always portrayed their enemies as "barbarians", while they of course were the noble preservers of civilization.

The Chinese thought themselves superior to the rest of the world, and closed themselves off for centuries.

The list goes on.

 

[Trumble]

you know what I have always found very interesting.. When western troops go on invading, killing, maiming, raping, pillaging, destroying lives, children, crops, architecture, and history (as was the case with the treasures of Sumeria in Iraq) they're considered heroes, awarded medals, applauded for their courage rather than being appalled by.. when indigenous folks from any population that the enemy govt. decides that it doesn't recognize and forces to subjugate their puppet govt. to not recognize as well marginalize them and paint them in a most heinous fashion for DEFENDING themselves by the same means (if at all) is enough to stimulate western gag reflex and colossal outcries and in a most hypocritical fashion. The Afghans (taliban or not) didn't invade you then, they've not invaded you now, making the more interesting question here isn't how their own feel about them, but by what right are you there committing war crimes on daily basis and applauding yourself for it and going so far as thinking you're the good guys?

I'm not quite sure what that rant is all about, to be honest. I'm not 'applauding' anybody, merely commenting that hearing a view from a perspective everybody seems to ignore (which is odd, considering the number of people involved) would be informative. Like it or not, most fighting in Afghanistan involves Afghans fighting Afghans. Accept it or not, many Afghans were delighted to see the back of the Taliban and seem to willing to fight to prevent their unwanted return. We are constantly exposed to what Western forces think, what their political leaders think and what the Taliban think, but we never hear what those people think. I'm not interested in whether you consider there to be a 'puppet government', but whether THEY do.

 

[جوري]

I'm not quite sure what that rant is all about, to be honest. I'm not 'applauding' anybody, merely commenting that hearing a view from a perspective everybody seems to ignore (which is odd, considering the number of people involved) would be informative. Like it or not, most fighting in Afghanistan involves Afghans fighting Afghans. Accept it or not, many Afghans were delighted to see the back of the Taliban and seem to willing to fight to prevent their unwanted return. We are constantly exposed to what Western forces think, what their political leaders think and what the Taliban think, but we never hear what those people think. I'm not interested in whether you consider there to be a 'puppet government', but whether THEY do.

how do you reconcile wanting to know what 'they' want while in the same breath asserting that 'afghans are willing to fight to prevent their unwanted return?' you surveyed the population or just giving us the same song and dance ergo your media?

best,

 

[Trumble]

how do you reconcile wanting to know what 'they' want while in the same breath asserting that 'afghans are willing to fight to prevent their unwanted return?' you surveyed the population or just giving us the same song and dance ergo your media?

There is no need to survey anyone or for any song and dance to reconcile anything.

Many Afghans are fighting the Taliban; if you choose to reject that obvious fact then we are wasting our time and I'll leave you to your fantasy world. Assuming you do accept that, they must either be doing so willingly or they are all being coerced in some way; there is no other alternative. The best way to find out is surely to ask them - free from any coercion, of course.

 

[جوري]

There is no need to survey anyone or for any song and dance to reconcile anything.

Many Afghans are fighting the Taliban; if you choose to reject that obvious fact then we are wasting our time and I'll leave you to your fantasy world. Assuming you do accept that, they must either be doing so willingly or they are all being coerced in some way; there is no other alternative. The best way to find out is surely to ask them - free from any coercion, of course.

who are these afghans fighting the Taliban? Do you have an excerpt from the Afghan tribune that we can read outside of your sensationalistic media and ludicrous attempts of intellectual blackmail if we can at all classify the meaningless fillers under that!
furthermore, even if I to accept that as a fact (which it isn't) since we have seen numerous YOUTUBE vids surveying the average afghan on their feelings and they are almost unanimously pro-taliban, what business is it of the west to invade, then (pre evil taliban) or now? I am still waiting for an answer to that Q are they too hiding those evil WMD like their counterparts in Iraq?

 

[GuestFellow]

Many Afghans are fighting the Taliban; if you choose to reject that obvious fact then we are wasting our time and I'll leave you to your fantasy world.

It is likely many Afghans will join the Taliban. What you have to understand is no country likes being under occupation. When civilians have been killed, the survivors will turn to whatever means it is necessary to get rid of foreign forces.

Source

Besides, I think the appropriate term to use is anti-government forces rather than Taliban because you have groups with different motives. The one thing they have in common is driving western troops out of their country.

 

[Who Am I?]

Say what you want about the Taliban, but at least they bought stability to the region and cleaned it up a bit. With the Taliban in shambles, the opium trade has started up again.

 

[M.I.A.]

there is a god and that plan leads onto judgement day.

trying to dissuade people from that plan is either heretical or compassionate.. but we move towards that day anyway.

the taliban had a plan for afghanistan and its people.

it is not for me to say if that plan was right or wrong, but what should they have done in there first steps?
without hindsight there is only forward movement.

in a state of war, which they are in, im sure they have hindsight.

but when or if the people of afghanistan become free of war, looking in hindsight.. what should there first steps be?

most if not all of you live in westernised countries so look around you, where is it that you are not free to practice religion? after all this is a religious forum.


forget government.. after all it is there to serve the people.

its a circular argument,
you cant destroy opposition by destroying people.. no matter what faith..

the rules on matters of war are probably pretty clear in the quran..
how you reach that place of war or avoid it is up to you.. and probably also pretty clear in the quran.

cant knock either side in the war for afghanistan, they have given each other plenty of excuses.
that guy who lost his children wont give up fighting thats for sure.

may allah swt have mercy upon me.

but as a father myself id work to try and keep that from ever happening to me.

use the entirety of your religion to propagate it..
falsehood is removed by truth long before a call to arms is needed.

 

[Jalal~]

so could someone PLEASE explain what is really going on? like how this all started (because i know this started way before 9/11). a really detailed explanation about the wars going on and the views of both sides would be great
Jazakallah Khair.

 

[Who Am I?]

so could someone PLEASE explain what is really going on? like how this all started (because i know this started way before 9/11). a really detailed explanation about the wars going on and the views of both sides would be great
Jazakallah Khair.

:wa:

You might want to take a look at this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Afghanistan

 

[Trumble]

who are these afghans fighting the Taliban? Do you have an excerpt from the Afghan tribune that we can read outside of your sensationalistic media and ludicrous attempts of intellectual blackmail if we can at all classify the meaningless fillers under that!

You are just raving. What attempt at 'intellectual blackmail'?

furthermore, even if I to accept that as a fact (which it isn't) ..

As I said, if you insist on denying the obvious I'm wasting my time.

since we have seen numerous YOUTUBE vids surveying the average afghan on their feelings and they are almost unanimously pro-taliban

Have "we" really? What Youtube vids? How do they constitute a 'survey'? Obviously some support the Taliban. Many do not. See below.

It is likely many Afghans will join the Taliban. What you have to understand is no country likes being under occupation. When civilians have been killed, the survivors will turn to whatever means it is necessary to get rid of foreign forces.

What you have to understand is that something like three quarters of the civilians killed in Afghanistan every year are killed by those 'anti-government forces', not government or foreign troops. Source. No, it isn't 'likely many Afghans will join the Taliban'. Unless they want to kill their own.. because in the most part that's what the Taliban do in the real world.

You also need to understand that they don't have the slightest intention of 'driving western troops out of their country' as an end in itself. If that was actually their objective they could just lay down their arms, all foreign troops would be gone in a month and Obama would be celebrating right up to the next election. What they actually want is a situation where they can regain power - by force - in Afghanistan, regardless of what anybody else living there might want. All this 'fighting for their land, God and and religion bit is total cr*p. If this universal support for the Taliban τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ is claiming actually existed power could be achieved easily through the ballot box with nobody getting killed at all; even Mugabe can't rig elections on that scale. But they are terrified of democracy, not because it is 'un-Islamic' but because they know perfectly well they would face wholesale rejection by the Afghan people.

 

[جوري]

You are just raving. What attempt at 'intellectual blackmail'?

Not at all, I am challenging you to stand by what you write!

As I said, if you insist on denying the obvious I'm wasting my time.

shouldn't the 'obvious' have some semblance of reality?

Have "we" really? What Youtube vids? How do they constitute a 'survey'? Obviously some support the Taliban. Many do not. See below.

I'll be waiting for a genuine Afghan source, until then don't waste my time!

best,

 

[GuestFellow]

What you have to understand is that something like three quarters of the civilians killed in Afghanistan every year are killed by those 'anti-government forces', not government or foreign troops.

So? Does that mean the Taliban were behind these attacks? What does anti-government forces actually mean? The US is likely to be seen as the main problem within Afghanistan by the civilians. If the US did not start this war, no civilians would have been killed. I suspect western government are hiding facts about how many civilians have been killed by their own troops.

Source. No, it isn't 'likely many Afghans will join the Taliban'. Unless they want to kill their own.. because in the most part that's what the Taliban do in the real world.

Where does it exactly say Taliban? All it says it anti-government forces. Even if there was no Taliban, these civilians would find other means of driving foreign forces out of their country.

You also need to understand that they don't have the slightest intention of 'driving western troops out of their country' as an end in itself.

You don't think some civilians are angry that they are under foreign occupation?

If that was actually their objective they could just lay down their arms, all foreign troops would be gone in a month and Obama would be celebrating right up to the next election.

I doubt it. Afghanistan is a strategic asset to the US. One is to protect the pipeline. Second is to be in a position to threaten Iran.

Source

BTW, the Japanese pose no threat to the US. Why is there military base there?

What they actually want is a situation where they can regain power - by force - in Afghanistan, regardless of what anybody else living there might want.

Are you referring to anti-government forces or civilians?

All this 'fighting for their land, God and and religion bit is total cr*p. If this universal support for the Taliban τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ is claiming actually existed power could be achieved easily through the ballot box with nobody getting killed at all; even Mugabe can't rig elections on that scale. But they are terrified of democracy, not because it is 'un-Islamic' but because they know perfectly well they would face wholesale rejection by the Afghan people.

We are talking about civilians, not anti-government forces. I think all of us agree that the US is occupying Afghanistan and trying to gain control of that country, even though it is not going to work. Civilians have been killed and I suppose many Afghans want some sort of revenge or seeks to drive US forces out. These civilians will join forces with rouge groups to achieve this.

I have no idea what the Taliban or what these anti-government forces want to achieve. So I think we should distinguish between what civilians want and what anti-government forces want.

 

[Lynx]

To those who weren't aware that Afghans fought against the Taliban please google "Ahmad Shah Massoud" and please educate yourselves. The taliban's support mostly lie in the southern regions where the pashtun tribes share the same ideological and cultural viewpoints of the Taliban. There has been a civil war going on in Afghanistan long before NATO decided to step in...As Trumble rightly points out, that portion of the Afghan Population are often overlooked by other Muslims who are too focused on "The War on Muslims"

It's unfortunate that some Muslims only notice Afghanistan when there are Russians or Americans involved. The real enemy of the Afghan population are the corrupt politicians in Kabul, the backwards and barbaric tribal leaders, and the warlords that have reduced the cities to rubble. They are all Muslim.

As a side note, even if NATO didn't get involved, the Taliban are too incompetent of a regime to save the millions dying of starvation every year.