Understanding the war in Afghanistan

[جوري]

Allah yada3 siroh fi ad3af khalqo.. What was the Russian interest in Afghanistan before that, and the British interest before that still? Afghanistan is really thriving with centuries of wars and occupation oh thank God for your presence there and 'NATO's'.. Did it ever occur to you that a tribal life is perfectly suitable for some people? that not everybody desires or wants a 9-5 in a cubicle in a smog filled metropolis, where 3/4 of their lives is spent in meaningless endeavors amidst people who back bite them and half of their salary is wasted on Taxes to support illegal wars and occupations, and that all their information comes in a neat little edited, concocted package meant to prey on their fears and rouse their paranoia while under the delusion that they can fulfill the 'American dream' like losers who play in Casinos losing millions believing that they can beat the house in a country that wants to redefine what 'bankruptcy' is because its so called 'democratic capitalistic system' a phony cover up supposedly to be imported to the world under some neatly packaged banners and is based purely on ponzi schemes has not only failed but failed miserably? I think a life in the mountain with a few goats is looking pretty good to many!
Quit using obscure characters and remote sources from the web to make non-points.. in fact take your own advise on education, I can think of no worse thing than ignorance save for persistence in it.

best,

 

[SFatima]

And as expected, the videos have been removed :/ or maybe i cannot view them.. is that the same for everybody?can anyone plz upload them again. Thank you.

 

[GuestFellow]

To those who weren't aware that Afghans fought against the Taliban please google "Ahmad Shah Massoud" and please educate yourselves. The taliban's support mostly lie in the southern regions where the pashtun tribes share the same ideological and cultural viewpoints of the Taliban. There has been a civil war going on in Afghanistan long before NATO decided to step in...As Trumble rightly points out, that portion of the Afghan Population are often overlooked by other Muslims who are too focused on "The War on Muslims"

I forgot the details but I think Ahmad Shah Massoud was a member of the Northern Alliance? Yes, there are civilians that are against the Taliban.

NATO made things worse. Starting a war did not help resolve the problems within Afghanistan. Like I said before, it is natural for some civilians to join anti-government forces (like the Taliban), when they are under foreign occupation.

It's unfortunate that some Muslims only notice Afghanistan when there are Russians or Americans involved. The real enemy of the Afghan population are the corrupt politicians in Kabul, the backwards and barbaric tribal leaders, and the warlords that have reduced the cities to rubble. They are all Muslim.

Yes, we are aware that there are corrupt politicians in Kabul. NATO presence in the region is not making things better.

 

[Who Am I?]

It's just like Vietnam. Civil conflict that only ended when foreign troops (U.S.) invaded the country.

Tribal politics is really at the heart of a lot of problems in the Muslim world. It's not the religion so much as it's the politics.

 

[ardianto]

I forgot the details but I think Ahmad Shah Massoud was a member of the Northern Alliance? Yes, there are civilians that are against the Taliban.

Ahmad Shah Massoud was Tajik tribe warlord in the war against Soviet. But after Taliban took over Afghanistan he joined in Northern Alliance because he is Tajik, and Taliban are Pashtun. Basically the war between Taliban and Northern Alliance was a war between Pashtun and non-Pashtun. But not every Pashtun warlord support Taliban regime. Gulbudin Hekmatyar from Pashtun took neutral position in that war, although from what I have read now Hekmatyar join Taliban in the war against NATO.

NATO made things worse. Starting a war did not help resolve the problems within Afghanistan. Like I said before, it is natural for some civilians to join anti-government forces (like the Taliban), when they are under foreign occupation.

NATO did not start the war. They just a 'new player in the game'.

 

[sister herb]

Salam alaykum;

the best way to understand wars in Afghanistan is talk with people coming from there - if they like to tell about it to you and if you can listening.

Getting knowledge from wikipedia or from media is allways: "can I trust this source tells true ?".

 

[Lynx]

Allah yada3 siroh fi ad3af khalqo... Did it ever occur to you that a tribal life is perfectly suitable for some people?
best,

Yes, and has it ever occurred to you that some people find the 9-5 capitalist/democratic life 'perfectly' suitable? In any case thank you for your rant, it had nothing to do with what I said but I am sure it made you feel better. Anyway, the point has been made clear: the war in Afghanistan is much more complicated than this whole NATO vs the Muslim world false dichotomy you're hallucinating about

I forgot the details but I think Ahmad Shah Massoud was a member of the Northern Alliance? Yes, there are civilians that are against the Taliban.

NATO made things worse. Starting a war did not help resolve the problems within Afghanistan. Like I said before, it is natural for some civilians to join anti-government forces (like the Taliban), when they are under foreign occupation.

It is true that a lot of civilians joined the anti-government forces because they despise the foreign interference of the West. However, the most important thing in this conflict, at least in my opinion, is what the Afghan people themselves want. My point in the earlier post is that there isn't just Anti-West and Pro-Taliban people; there are a large number of middle-men who dislike both. The people of the country themselves should decide what sort of future they should have, not a bunch of western politicians or the Muslims around the world that turned their backs on Afghanistan in its darkest times....

 

[جوري]

Yes, and has it ever occurred to you that some people find the 9-5 capitalist/democratic life 'perfectly' suitable? In any case thank you for your rant, it had nothing to do with what I said but I am sure it made you feel better. Anyway, the point has been made clear: the war in Afghanistan is much more complicated than this whole NATO vs the Muslim world false dichotomy you're hallucinating about
.

They can find it suitable all they want, they don't have to force feed it to others.. You have no point unfortunately otherwise and you've never had one. Perhaps you concoct irrelevant nonsense to appease your mind of the heinous crimes committed by your fellow countrymen for no apparent good reason.. the complexity is apparently well over your head since you couldn't come up with a single good reason for repeat invasions pre/post taliban.. pre/post 911!

 

[Lynx]

They can find it suitable all they want, they don't have to force feed it to others.. You have no point unfortunately otherwise and you've never had one. Perhaps you concoct irrelevant nonsense to appease your mind of the heinous crimes committed by your fellow countrymen for no apparent good reason.. the complexity is apparently well over your head since you couldn't come up with a single good reason for repeat invasions pre/post taliban.. pre/post 911!

I think you're logically challenged. Re-read my first post on this thread to properly understand what I said. To help you with this task, make sure to cite which portions of my initial post each of your replies are meant to respond to.


I like your bit about my "countrymen"...maybe I'll start a new thread on the Arab/Pakistani invasion of Afghanistan. Your countrymen are just as bad

 

[جوري]

I think you're logically challenged. Re-read my first post on this thread to properly understand what I said. To help you with this task, make sure to cite which portions of my initial post each of your replies are meant to respond to.


I like your bit about my "countrymen"...maybe I'll start a new thread on the Arab/Pakistani invasion of Afghanistan. Your countrymen are just as bad

I have tired of the fillers and the antics you pad your posts with, I am not even sure I understand the psychology behind such petty school boy attempts to save face.. it really wouldn't be that difficult to take yourself out of a topic where you're inept at gauging to any respectable level whether politically, economically, socially etc. and let's face it the only reason you're here all together is to save your troubled friend from the jam he dug for himself the usual best he could offer to cement his views are by way of intellectual bullying which you're only too eager to jump on yourself.. I'd love a little nugget in all that manure I so often have to sort through. How long does it take you to google a non sequitur which you so boastfully offer as 'education'?

btw for the record in Islam we don't have Arab/Pakistani/afghan etc. labels. .. We're all simply Muslims! we have no borders and no superiority.. our interests are one with any luck it would be the final nail in America's coffin as it was in soviets coffin before you!

best,

 

[Lynx]

btw for the record in Islam we don't have Arab/Pakistani/afghan etc. labels. .. We're all simply Muslims! we have no borders and no superiority.. our interests are one with any luck it would be the final nail in America's coffin as it was in soviets coffin before you!

best,

Now try very hard to answer the following question without dodging it or outright ignoring it: why are there so many Afghans fighting against the Taliban before and after Sept 11 if their goals are all the same? If you are unaware that this is going on then why do you talk about a region of the world that you are completely ignorant about? You're no different than any other redneck in America blabbering about WMD's in Iraq. Ignorance is ignorance regardless of your religion or background. The point is this: the war in Afghanistan is more than just NATO vs Muslims; you've yet to address this point or even show that you understand this. I imagine your next response will be either to deny that there are Muslims fighting against the Taliban (despite giving you a reference point in my previous post) or you will rant about the West even though I am not talking about the West. Conclusion: you're ignorant of the history of Afghanistan and you think you are qualified to form an opinion on the war going on there. People are dying there and you don't even take a few minutes of your time to educate yourself on what they're all about. I'll say it again, you're one of those Muslims that don't give a crap about anyone unless there's a white person to hate on. If NATO withdrew tomorrow you'd forget about the place just like the entire Muslim world did after the Russians left. The West is godless, what is the Muslim's excuse? No Jihad = no interest? l0l.

 

[جوري]

Now try very hard to answer the following question without dodging it or outright ignoring it: why are there so many Afghans fighting against the Taliban before and after Sept 11 if their goals are all the same? If you are unaware that this is going on then why do you talk about a region of the world that you are completely ignorant about? You're no different than any other redneck in America blabbering about WMD's in Iraq. Ignorance is ignorance regardless of your religion or background.

Who are these so many afghans? another catch all phrase for a dude you found on the net?

The point is this: the war in Afghanistan is more than just NATO vs Muslims; you've yet to address this point or even show that you understand this. I imagine your next response will be either to deny that there are Muslims fighting against the Taliban (despite giving you a reference point in my previous post) or you will rant about the West even though I am not talking about the West. Conclusion: you're ignorant of the history of Afghanistan and you think you are qualified to form an opinion on the war going on there. People are dying there and you don't even take a few minutes of your time to educate yourself on what they're all about. I'll say it again, you're one of those Muslims that don't give a crap about anyone unless there's a white person to hate on. If NATO withdrew tomorrow you'd forget about the place just like the entire Muslim world did after the Russians left. The West is godless, what is the Muslim's excuse? No Jihad = no interest? l0l.

glad you can create a funny and laugh at it yourself.. I won't dignify your incessant drivel with a response, although I'll point out that if we're to speak of ignorance, then you're a poster boy for it!
No one is forgetting about Afghanistan or any Islamic country in between, that is your desire, a western desire in general to dismantle any effort for an ummah uniting... if you didn't send Satan's envoy every other day to nip in the bud any effort at forming a Muslim empire even a simple mind like yours would see it clearly... Thank God Ramadan is upon, you can shut that gaping maw of yours from spewing more manure!

best,

 

[Thucydides1987]

Hi lily!! I see you're up to your old tricks again. Or did you never stop?

 

[Lynx]

Who are these so many afghans? another catch all phrase for a dude you found on the net?

huh ? You DO realize that the Taliban took over the country by force and that there was a civil war going on before NATO decided to step in right?.... Or were you under the impression that after the Russians left it was all peaceful and happy-happy until the evil NATO forces invaded killing thousands of innocent Taliban fighters who were just trying to run a country that they were the legitimate rulers of? Something tells me the latter is more in line with your obviously uninformed understanding of the war in Afghanistan.

glad you can create a funny and laugh at it yourself.. I won't dignify your incessant drivel with a response, although I'll point out that if we're to speak of ignorance, then you're a poster boy for it!
No one is forgetting about Afghanistan or any Islamic country in between, that is your desire, a western desire in general to dismantle any effort for an ummah uniting... if you didn't send Satan's envoy every other day to nip in the bud any effort at forming a Muslim empire even a simple mind like yours would see it clearly... Thank God Ramadan is upon, you can shut that gaping maw of yours from spewing more manure!

best,

If no one forgot about it then where was all the discussion about helping one of the, if not the poorest, country in all of the Muslim world? Your Ummah will never reunite because you're all indifferent to one another. The sad fact is, the Muslim world forgot about Afghanistan as soon as the Russians withdrew; if they hadn't, maybe things would have turned out differently. Certainly, when someone is suffering the whole world has a responsibility to help them out, but when that person's own brothers and sisters don't give a crap what would you expect from the rest of the world?

Again, the west is godless but what's the Muslim's excuse?

 

[جوري]

Hi lily!! I see you're up to your old tricks again. Or did you never stop?

Do you have something of substance to impart?

huh ? You DO realize that the Taliban took over the country by force and that there was a civil war going on before NATO decided to step in right?.... Or were you under the impression that after the Russians left it was all peaceful and happy-happy until the evil NATO forces invaded killing thousands of innocent Taliban fighters who were just trying to run a country that they were the legitimate rulers of? Something tells me the latter is more in line with your obviously uninformed understanding of the war in Afghanistan.




If no one forgot about it then where was all the discussion about helping one of the, if not the poorest, country in all of the Muslim world? Your Ummah will never reunite because you're all indifferent to one another. The sad fact is, the Muslim world forgot about Afghanistan as soon as the Russians withdrew; if they hadn't, maybe things would have turned out differently. Certainly, when someone is suffering the whole world has a responsibility to help them out, but when that person's own brothers and sisters don't give a crap what would you expect from the rest of the world?

Again, the west is godless but what's the Muslim's excuse?

So what if the taliban took over by force? coups happen all the time.. we're seeing it all over the middle east, what is your point?
Of course the ummah will reunite insha'Allah-- it is just a matter of time.. freaks you out a bit doesn't it? seeds of change are happening all over while the U.S and its poodles decide to put their tentacles here and there, pretty soon they'll have run out of money, constantly redefining what it means to be bankrupt. How can you compare people who have absolutely nothing living in a mountainous austere region to the foies gras effete homosexuals you send there?

إِنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا يُنْفِقُونَ أَمْوَالَهُمْ لِيَصُدُّوا عَنْ سَبِيلِ اللَّهِ ۚ فَسَيُنْفِقُونَهَا ثُمَّ تَكُونُ عَلَيْهِمْ حَسْرَةً ثُمَّ يُغْلَبُونَ ۗ وَالَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا إِلَىٰ جَهَنَّمَ يُحْشَرُونَ {36}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 8:36] Lo! those who disbelieve spend their wealth in order that they may debar (men) from the way of Allah. They will spend it, then it will become an anguish for them, then they will be conquered. And those who disbelieve will be gathered unto hell,


The verse pretty much sums it up..and spare me the bull **** about all the good you and NATO do, if dropping bombs along with food is good then you really need to get your head examined!

best,[/SIZE]

 

[جوري]

Certainly, when someone is suffering the whole world has a responsibility to help them out,

lol about that bit, it is worthy of special mention..

The United States is seeking to avert further criticism over the use of cluster bombs in Afghanistan by warning the Afghan people not to confuse unexploded bombs with food drops. [TABLE="class: floatingtable, align: right"]
[TR]
[TD]

Do not confuse the cylinder-shaped bomb with the rectangular food bag

[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="bgcolor: #cccc99"] US Psy-ops radio
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Embarrassingly, the bombs' yellow casing means that from a distance they are hard to distinguish from the emergency food parcels wrapped in yellow plastic that US planes have been dropping over the last few weeks

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/monitoring/media_reports/1624787.stm

dropping food with cluster bombs amongst other things really makes you helpful and dutiful.. btw OBL an Arab along with many others gave his fortune to help the afghans.. how do your pals in Washington view that help? I believe they call it terrorism.. beyond me really how their simpleton minds can't conceive the heinous war crimes they commit in the same light.. with one minor difference here of course. Neither the Taliban nor the afghans actually invaded the U.S or its poodles, making you a terrorist bar none!

you're so incredibly delusional it i frightening!

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

If no one forgot about it then where was all the discussion about helping one of the, if not the poorest, country in all of the Muslim world? Your Ummah will never reunite because you're all indifferent to one another. The sad fact is, the Muslim world forgot about Afghanistan as soon as the Russians withdrew; if they hadn't, maybe things would have turned out differently. Certainly, when someone is suffering the whole world has a responsibility to help them out, but when that person's own brothers and sisters don't give a crap what would you expect from the rest of the world?

Again, the west is godless but what's the Muslim's excuse?

Greetings of peace..

I dont understand how you can assume the muslim world forgot about afghanistan or any other country out there where innocents are suffering. Do not judge the whole group, there are billions of humans all around the world, and at least over millions out there who are muslims, how can you come to the conclusions of those billions assuming they dont do anything to help? so what is it that you do to help the innocents dying out there? or should i assume the same as you do for the muslims? I think we should be respectful insha'Allaah..

The west is not 'godless', nor is the east, people of all faith in god also live in the west, its those humans who choose by making righteous decisions by either using their brain that god gifted them with or using it in to fulfill their desire. but by godless if you mean people lacking belief in god, well then as i mentioned it is because they choose not to.

A muslim has no excuse but to submit fully to his lord, by obeying him. Those who do not, well im sure you understand the concept of right from the wrong, and it seems you have been on the forum long enough to maybe have learnt somethings about Islaam maybe?. meaning, if one is not following a particular law the way it is set, then he is obviously not fully following it properly, which means he is to blame not the law or the whole lot of others who follow the law. i hope i make sense, i apologise if it was confusing.


However, the blessed month has approached and i hope that since you are on this forum, you learn lots about Ramadhaan insha'Allaah..

 

[M.I.A.]

i was reading that Afghanistan had a reported 99% muslim population, how on earth did the taliban mess up so bad?
as teachers and reformers.

surely 1% cant be the cause of all insecurity.

anyway, what can you do?

or what would you do?

 

[جوري]

i was reading that Afghanistan had a reported 99% muslim population, how on earth did the taliban mess up so bad?
as teachers and reformers.

surely 1% cant be the cause of all insecurity.

anyway, what can you do?

or what would you do?

How do you figure the 'taliban' caused all the mess? Afghanistan hasn't been war ravaged for centuries by foreign interest in the region? way before the concocted axis of evil of 'taliban' or 'OBL' it is a shame really to have such a superficial knowledge of geopolitical and socioeconomic conditions of the world around you!

best,

 

[M.I.A.]

well i figure by definition alone the talib's would have known better than to think they could destroy the shaytan, that thing has been here long before you and i and hopefully will remain here long after you and i have left this place.

if you want holy war for stability, well those states will not be established until the people are worthy to establish them.
its like the jews waiting for a zionistic state.

understand that wars for land and stability will go on forever, achieving stability and structure within the people is what islam was suppose to be about. what makes a land important?

oil? resources? ...well that wont last forever.
strategic importance? ...what are you planning to do?

all of the above is superficial opinion, most of what i believe in doesnt exist.