Unitarian Christians

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Here's a question for the more knowledgeable Muslims on this site.

Since Unitarians in their core belief do not associate partners with Allah SWT (which is an unforgivable sin), could they eventually attain paradise?
 
[4.48] Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin.

Hmmmm...?
 
Here's a question for the more knowledgeable Muslims on this site.

Since Unitarians in their core belief do not associate partners with Allah SWT (which is an unforgivable sin), could they eventually attain paradise?

:w:

Fortunately none of us have to make that choice. All is up to Allaah(swt). We can not say for certain who will go or will not go to Jannah. But, we can be certain Allaah(swt) is fair and just and that all who he finds worthy will go to Jannah, no matter what our opinion of the person is.
 
God can forgive everything except polytheism.
Interesting the way you phrased that statement. I would have thought that you would have said that God is willing to forgive everything except polytheism. But you didn't. Instead of making a statement about God's will, you made one about God's ability and said that there was something that God was unable to do. A unique view for a Muslim I should think.
 
It's clearly stated in the Quran that polytheism is worse. God can forgive everything except polytheism.

It goes deeper than that brother. Worshipping a false god isnt the only way of associating partners with Allah. A man who belives that allt heere is is the world around him and devotes all of his time to the material world is just as bad as the man who donates all his time to a false idol.


Worship has a broader meaning. Atheism and polytheism are both evil.
 
how christians define the christians group that is in the right path? Can you please explain. And which is the majority group?

Like with pretty much everyone else, how Christians define who is and who is not on the right path is by claiming that they are and that those who disagree with them are not. There are of course groups that allow for quite a bit of latitude before declaring a person is wrong and other groups that allow for so little differnece of opinion that they think that they have heaven all to themselves.

So it is that you have groups of denominations like the Baptists, Presbyterians, Methodists, Lutherans, Nazarenes, Assemblies of God, Apostolic Church, Disciples of Christ, Episcopalians, Reformed Churches, Salvation Army, Pentecostals, Four Square Gospel, Mennonites, Church of the Brethren, Congregationalists, Moravians, Pilgrim Holiness, Wesleyans, United Church of Christ, Church of God, Quakers, Amish, and Anglicans that pretty much see each other as all equally a part of the body of Christ even if they don't see eye to eye on all of the details of theology or practice.

Then you have the groups like the Catholics, Orthodox, and Coptics that recognize that these other groups are composed of genuine believers and followers of Jesus Christ, but they don't recognize the institutions in which they gather as being legitimate churches unless they can trace their roots by direct laying on of hands in the ordination of their clergy back to the apostles, which is something they pretty much reserve for themselves. They declare what most people would call churches to be ecclesiatical communities. (BTW, I think this if funny because ecclesiatiacal is just a fancy word meaning "church".)

And then you have groups such as the Mormons, Jehovahs' Witness, the Way International, the Moonies, and others who each think that they are the one and only group that is truly Christian and that everyone else is apostate, even if their ideas have next to nothing in common with what has been the historic teaching of Christianity for the last 2000 years.

In terms of numbers, Wikipedia provides the following membership information:

Catholicism (Roman Catholic, Old Catholic, etc) - 1116 million
Anglicans - 73 million
Eastern Orthodoxy (Greek Orthodox, Russian Orthodox, Karamanli Turkish Church, etc.) - 225 million
Oriental Orthodox (Coptic, Ethopian Orthodox, Syriac Orthodox, Armenian Apostolic Church) - 72 million
Historic Protestantism (Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Presbyterian, Quaker, etc.) - 340 million
Pentecostal Protestanism (Assemblies of God, Apostolic Church, Church of God, etc.) - 105 million
Non-trinitarian (Unitarians, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christadelphians, etc.) - 10 million


For myself, except for those that are non-trinitarian (e.g. Unitarians and JWs) or that teach the one can earn one's salvation through good works (e.g. Mormons), I would include all in the above list as Christian.
 
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Interesting the way you phrased that statement. I would have thought that you would have said that God is willing to forgive everything except polytheism. But you didn't. Instead of making a statement about God's will, you made one about God's ability and said that there was something that God was unable to do. A unique view for a Muslim I should think.
You are right, I should have said God is willing to forgive everything except polytheism. Also, I fully trust God's mercy. In the end He is the one who will decide whom to forgive.
 
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It goes deeper than that brother. Worshipping a false god isnt the only way of associating partners with Allah. A man who belives that allt heere is is the world around him and devotes all of his time to the material world is just as bad as the man who donates all his time to a false idol.


Worship has a broader meaning. Atheism and polytheism are both evil.
I didn't say atheism wasn't bad, but according to the Quran polytheism is much worse. It is very clear actually...
 
I didn't say atheism wasn't bad, but according to the Quran polytheism is much worse. It is very clear actually...
Am I correct in thinking that - according to Islam - neither atheists nor polytheists would enter paradise; but also that both atheists and polytheists would be forgiven for their errors if they repented and turned to Islam?
 
Am I correct in thinking that - according to Islam - neither atheists nor polytheists would enter paradise; but also that both atheists and polytheists would be forgiven for their errors if they repented and turned to Islam?
Yes.. but in the end God decides everything of course. There are also Islamic scholars who don't believe that hell is eternal for example. They say that the word eternal in the Quran means a "long time" and not literally eternal. God knows best..
 
I have a friend who attends a Unitarian Universlist Church and even people who do not believe in GOD attend the church and are members!! I guess it is the universe that they believe in!?!
 
I have a friend who attends a Unitarian Universlist Church and even people who do not believe in GOD attend the church and are members!! I guess it is the universe that they believe in!?!

Yes! I've seen that too.

It's a story I've told before, but it is true and I think it tells us a lot about the Unitarians:
In the 1970s (sorry I don't remember what year any more), at the national convention of the Unitarian Church, a resolution was proposed regarding a Unitarian statement of faith that they affirm that Unitarians believe in God. It failed. While most Unitarians do believe in God at least in some sort of way, it seems that there is not even enough consensus in what they mean by God to approve that they actually believe in him/it/her/or the idea of some divine being/essence.

From their own website, Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations, "Beliefs Within Our Faith":
Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion that encompasses many faith traditions. Unitarian Universalists include people who identify as Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Pagans, Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists, and others. As there is no official Unitarian Universalist creed, Unitarian Universalists are free to search for truth on many paths.
As you can see from this, it would be hard for one to consider them Christian in the same way that other Christian groups are Christian given that they are free to seach for truth on many paths and Christians believe the Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
 
I find it interesting that the Ahmadi use the same Qu'ran as Sunni and Shi'a Muslims, yet they have radically different beliefs regarding what it means to be Muslim.

Salam.Ahmadis differ from us on the beliefe who the Mahdi is/was an issue which is not found in Quran.But they surely differ on hadiths.
 
Assalamualaikum warahmatullah,

How about those people who follows prophet Jesus (pbuh) before the Councils of Nicea? Are they too considered as Muslims? Also those in Yemen, who had been accepting the teaching of prophet Jesus (pbuh) through a man called Faimiyyoun (Phemion)? I am confused too which of them are considered as Muslim because the Trinity teaching seems to be arise around 4th C.

I have heard that currently there is a Church called Arian Catholic trying to get the root of Christian back close to Judaism. They believe in Jesus as the key to heaven and he us a separate entity apart from God, but I am still confused with their testimony on Jesus because sometimes they said that prophet Jesus is the son of God and some of them are previously Protestants and Roman Catholics, I guess it might be metaphorical. Basically they use the same bible used by mainstream Christians, both New and Old Testaments but they blame Paul/Saul of Tarsus because of Trinitarian brought by him into Christianity.

Here is the quote from Arian Catholics main website about who is Jesus in their perspective:

“Jesus Christ” (Christ = the anointed / chosen one) was not literally the “Son of God”, but, during Jesus’ time, this title was a metaphor and was honorific of someone considered worthy of the rank of one who served God as his Son. Physically, Jesus was a human man, born of Mary and Joseph; but spiritually he was technically the son of God as his Spirit was an Archangel created and sent by God. Christ was a man to be followed not worshipped.

The Arian Catholics view about Jesus deification, slightly different from Muslim view about the crucifixion, we believe it was Judas Iscariot who had been mis-crucified while the real Jesus had been saved by God to some other place:

1. Jesus Christ, the same man who was crucified on the cross under Pontius Pilate was not the same entity that created the Universe, the earth and mankind! Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit and God are not part of the same triune but are separate entities. God is the focus of all prayers and Jesus Christ himself taught us not to worship him but to worship God

2. The true Universal Christian Church is Anglican. A simple fact is that although it is believed Jesus Christ travelled to different countries, they believe Jesus might have been in England. This is their opinion, I don't know where exactly Jesus had traveled after he was saved by God from the crucifixion.

Muslims have to testify prophet Muhammad as the God messenger. Do you think people in the time where prophet Jesus (pbuh) and who had accepting his prophethood at the time testifying prophet Muhammad as God messenger too? Also those in the time of prophet Moses like Asiyyah the wife of Pharaoh and Masyittah the groomer in Pharaoh palace (may God be merciful to them)?
 
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Assalamualaikum warahmatullah,

How about those people who follows prophet Jesus (pbuh) before the Councils of Nicea? Are they too considered as Muslims?

Any people (before and after the Councils of Nicea up till the time of
prophet Mohamed peace be upon him)

are considered to be believers (Muslims) as long as they:

1-kept the Torah commandments

2- never committed act of shirk (believe in trinity etc....)

3- never believed in the so called blood atonement


I don't say they had to believe that Jesus wasn't crucified.....

as any group who may have been misinformed and believed that Jesus the great prophet been killed ,and they continued to keep his teachings ,the laws,the true monotheism ..

such group could be considered as Muslims too
......



Muslims have to testify prophet Muhammad as the God messenger. Do you think people in the time where prophet Jesus (pbuh) and who had accepting his prophethood at the time testifying prophet Muhammad as God messenger too? Also those in the time of prophet Moses like Asiyyah the wife of Pharaoh and Masyittah the groomer in Pharaoh palace (may God be merciful to them)?

Excuse me ,just can't get what you mean here......
 
Any people (before and after the Councils of Nicea up till the time of
prophet Mohamed peace be upon him)

are considered to be believers (Muslims) as long as they:

1-kept the Torah commandments

2- never committed act of shirk (believe in trinity etc....)

3- never believed in the so called blood atonement


I don't say they had to believe that Jesus wasn't crucified.....

as any group who may have been misinformed and believed that Jesus the great prophet been killed ,and they continued to keep his teachings ,the laws,the true monotheism ..

such group could be considered as Muslims too
......

Excuse me ,just can't get what you mean here......

Assalamualaikum warahmatullah,

Thank you very much brother Imam, now it is a bit clear to me concerning people who follow prophet Jesus (pbuh). So they are Muslims and not Christians until the Council of Nicea and after the prosecutions.

Concerning previous ahlul-kitab, like Masyittah and Asiyyah, both of them had testified that prophet Moses (pbuh) is a God messenger in the time where they lived. So is that too means that they testify prophet Muhammad (pbuh) who isn't yet send by God at that particular time?

Because we Muslims in modern era believe that it had been prophesied in Torah about prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Those Medinah Jews in the time before Hijrah too believe in prophet Muhammad (pbuh) but they had turned away knowing that he had been together with their lowly estimated Khazraj and Aus Arab tribes. Non-Muslims always talking about Islam as newly revealed bt I always think that Islam is the earliest even earlier than Hinduism because we had our root from Noah and Abraham who had been revealed with scriptures. I wonder why the previous One Universal teaching of God (Islam) had been limited in name of certain tribes or prophet names?

How about the status of Abdul Mutalib the grandfather of prophet Muhammad? I have never heard that he is honoring any idols in Kaaba. It is also said that he was practicing Haneef, the teaching of straight path inherited from prophet Ismail (pbuh) who got it straight away from his father prophet Abraham (pbuh). Some people said Abdul Mutallib is not a Muslim, and some said yes concerning his status. It is as confusing as the follower of prophet Jesus (pbuh) case too, because Abdul Mutallib lived in the period of Jahiliyya, where Arabs in Mecca who were previously Monotheists turned Polytheists after Amar Ben Luhay brought polytheism into Mecca from Syria when he dealt in business with the Phonecians. Do you have any Hadeeth about this story? I think I have heard one, if anyone happen to have it, please put it here for us to read together, including the sanad (source) and the validity of the hadeeth. Thank you in advance.
 

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