United Nations - What the point

[wth1257]

The U.S. went to Iraq with U.N. Security Council resolutions. Not votes of the General Assembly.



It has very little or nothing to do with religion. Israel is a long time U.S. ally, dating back to the Cold War. The enemies of Israel are in large part the enemies of the United States. The U.S. has no sympathy for Hamas or Hezbollah. Anything Israel does to weaken these entities will be supported by the U.S. The issue is civilian deaths, which the U.S. has pushed Israel to try harder to avoid.

As I said, the U.S. support for Israel is based on foreign policy pragmatism much more than any religious concern.

What pragmatism? The fact that they are also enemies of Hamas and Hezbollah? Both of these groups were formed in 80's in response to Israeli occupation. Religion does play a role look at Christian zionist groups and the role of Dispensationalism.

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

The U.S. went to Iraq with U.N. Security Council resolutions. Not votes of the General Assembly.



It has very little or nothing to do with religion. Israel is a long time U.S. ally, dating back to the Cold War. The enemies of Israel are in large part the enemies of the United States. The U.S. has no sympathy for Hamas or Hezbollah. Anything Israel does to weaken these entities will be supported by the U.S. The issue is civilian deaths, which the U.S. has pushed Israel to try harder to avoid.

As I said, the U.S. support for Israel is based on foreign policy pragmatism much more than any religious concern.

The enemies of Israel are their own selfish, bloody-minded selves. Their own selfish, hate-filled, opressive treatment of the Palestinians for 60 odd years has proven that. I don't point to Jews only here - everyone who is upon the same agenda be they Zionists or others.

The whole fair-minded world knows it. If the resistence in Iraq had not been so successful the US would no doubt wipe out every single Iraqi and take their land just like they terminated the Red Indians. Now they are shifting their emarrasment to Afghanistan and the world will wait and see the result.

Because the greed of the US is apparant to the world. That country consumes more than it produces - and I don't condem each person who lives there.

The US nuked Japan killing and harming many civilians - (maybe even today some are still born mutated?) so save your "the issue is civilian deaths" speech. The issue is oppression. Plain and simple.

If you spent years buying your own house and some people came and threw you out and said "its mine now" - you would be the first to cry "injustice". You would call the police - and if they didn't help either then what?. If people did that to you - left you with no choice - you would respect any resistance.

 

[Keltoi]

What pragmatism? The fact that they are also enemies of Hamas and Hezbollah? Both of these groups were formed in 80's in response to Israeli occupation. Religion does play a role look at Christian zionist groups and the role of Dispensationalism.

It is pragmatic for the U.S. to be allies of Israel because they are the only democracy in the region and our enemies in the region, in large part, are their enemies in the region. Iran, Syria, etc.

As for religion, yes there are groups within the United States that support Israel based on religious grounds. However, that is not the concern of the Pentagon or the U.S. State Department.

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

It is pragmatic for the U.S. to be allies of Israel because they are the only democracy in the region and our enemies in the region, in large part, are their enemies in the region. Iran, Syria, etc.

As for religion, yes there are groups within the United States that support Israel based on religious grounds. However, that is not the concern of the Pentagon or the U.S. State Department.

Don't mention the 'd' word Keltoi - the world has woken up and moved on - do you think the Iraqis are jumping with joy at the new earned democracy which cost so many of their lives?. Illogical to say the least.

Anyway, I thought you, being a Christian, would prefer to follow Christianity not democracy or has democracy in and of itself become better than Christianity lately?.

 

[Keltoi]

The whole fair-minded world knows it. If the resistence in Iraq had not been so successful the US would no doubt wipe out every single Iraqi and take their land just like they terminated the Red Indians. Now they are shifting their emarrasment to Afghanistan and the world will wait and see the result.

If the goal of the U.S. was to wipe out every single Iraqi, the country of Iraq would be a smoking glass pit by now. The "resistance" in Iraq consists of the occasional suicide bombing in a market place. If that is your idea of success maybe you should rethink that.

The US nuked Japan killing and harming many civilians - (maybe even today some are still born mutated?) so save your "the issue is civilian deaths" speech. The issue is oppression. Plain and simple.

As for the bombing of Japan, the civilian death count would have been 10 times as high with a ground invasion.

If you spent years buying your own house and some people came and threw you out and said "its mine now" - you would be the first to cry "injustice". You would call the police - and if they didn't help either then what?. If people did that to you - left you with no choice - you would respect any resistance.

Since we are using analogies, imagine a giant dragon moves into your neighborhood and all the people moved to a different area. However, there is one group of those people who decide the best way to counter this injustice is to throw rocks at the dragon. The dragon gets annoyed and kills many people as a result. The people who threw the rocks escaped to throw rocks again next week. The dragon returns and kills more people. The rockthrowers continue the cycle. Is that a respected form of resistance?

 

[Fishman]

It is pragmatic for the U.S. to be allies of Israel because they are the only democracy in the region

Uh, what about Turkey? Iran? Pakistan? Syria? Egypt? Even Palestine? Almost every country in the middle east is democratic, with the exclusion of Arabia and Jordan. Come to think of it, every country that America doesn't get on well with in the Middle East is at least nominally democractic.
Don't get me wrong, those democracies are pretty messed up ones. But Israel ain't any better.

and our enemies in the region, in large part, are their enemies in the region. Iran, Syria, etc.

Agree with this part though.

 

[Keltoi]

Uh, what about Turkey? Iran? Pakistan? Syria? Egypt? Even Palestine? Almost every country in the middle east is democratic, with the exclusion of Arabia and Jordan. Come to think of it, every country that America doesn't get on well with in the Middle East is at least nominally democractic.
Don't get me wrong, those democracies are pretty messed up ones. But Israel ain't any better

Well, I don't consider Turkey to be "in the region", although I suppose they could be depending on the context. The others you mentioned have some claim to a democratic process, but it is hardly transparent.

 

[جوري]

as far as I am concerned the US should hold no power in the UN given its debt alone..
China used to vote with Arabic countries, but that has changed under Israeli threat -- plus mutual interests between the two..

the U.N is indeed useless, if all it can do is issue resolutions that the colonial settler state and its poodle the U.S have no desire to comply with. Basically it is now erect to issue a sort of political fatwas in favor of the colonial settler state or else!

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

If the goal of the U.S. was to wipe out every single Iraqi, the country of Iraq would be a smoking glass pit by now. The "resistance" in Iraq consists of the occasional suicide bombing in a market place. If that is your idea of success maybe you should rethink that.


They could have nuked them but they need the oil Keltoi.

As for the bombing of Japan, the civilian death count would have been 10 times as high with a ground invasion.


My point being with nukes their is little 'precision'.

Since we are using analogies, imagine a giant dragon moves into your neighborhood and all the people moved to a different area. However, there is one group of those people who decide the best way to counter this injustice is to throw rocks at the dragon. The dragon gets annoyed and kills many people as a result. The people who threw the rocks escaped to throw rocks again next week. The dragon returns and kills more people. The rockthrowers continue the cycle. Is that a respected form of resistance?

Look - Keltoi - Dragons don't exist. Your imaginary analogy is way off. People have moved on. The world knows what is happening Keltoi - it doesn't need your views on this one, sorry.

 

[Keltoi]

Don't mention the 'd' word Keltoi - the world has woken up and moved on - do you think the Iraqis are jumping with joy at the new earned democracy which cost so many of their lives?. Illogical to say the least.

Anyway, I thought you, being a Christian, would prefer to follow Christianity not democracy or has democracy in and of itself become better than Christianity lately?.

The issue isn't whether Iraqis are jumping with joy, it is what the Iraqis will do now that they have a chance to make a new start.

As for me being Christian, it doesn't matter. I can practice my faith to its full extent because I live in a constitutional republic. Or a democracy if you prefer.

 

[Keltoi]

Look - Keltoi - Dragons don't exist. Your imaginary analogy is way off. People have moved on. The world knows what is happening Keltoi - it doesn't need your views on this one, sorry.

You seemed to like analogies when it fit your model.

 

[Fishman]

Look - Keltoi - Dragons don't exist. Your imaginary analogy is way off. People have moved on. The world knows what is happening Keltoi - it doesn't need your views on this one, sorry.

Do you know what an analogy is? oh: Whether dragons exist or not hardly matters.


EDIT:

The others you mentioned have some claim to a democratic process, but it is hardly transparent.

Yes, lack of transparency, along with other things, do endanger their claims to be liberal democracies. But in Israel, rather than being dragged off to a torture prison for critising the leader or being gay, you'll have your land confiscated to be given to some gun nuts that shoot your kids if you are the wrong ethnicity.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Iran needs more free speech zones.

 

[Izyan]

Look - Keltoi - Dragons don't exist. Your imaginary analogy is way off. People have moved on. The world knows what is happening Keltoi - it doesn't need your views on this one, sorry.

The US has enough conventional munitions to destroy every iraqi 100 times over. We have munitions we don't even use anymore that would make short work of Iraqis (Napalm).

 

[S1aveofA11ah]

The US has enough conventional munitions to destroy every iraqi 100 times over. We have munitions we don't even use anymore that would make short work of Iraqis (Napalm).

Look - just about the whole world HATES what the US did in Iraq. They don't need extra munitions to proove/disproove anything. Ask the Iraqis.

 

[Woodrow]

The ability to destroy does not command respect. That comes from the ability to build or rebuild. Sadly those of us in the USA have been failing at that in recent years.

The leaders of the world have almost unanimously come to the point of belief that the ability to destroy is power. That is not power, that is fear and all it commands is hate.

 

[Izyan]

The ability to destroy does not command respect. That comes from the ability to build or rebuild. Sadly those of us in the USA have been failing at that in recent years.

The leaders of the world have almost unanimously come to the point of belief that the ability to destroy is power. That is not power, that is fear and all it commands is hate.

I didn't say it did. I was commenting on the resistence stop the US from wiping out all the Iraqis. I'm saying that's not true. I've had the Americans save plenty of my family members from the "resistance"

 

[Bittersteel]

UN ....well its mainly useful for relief and humanitarian purposes.Its the best concept so far for an world conference organization.

BTW I heard the UN Charter of Human Rights clashes with Islamic principles.Is that true?

 

[Najm]

AsSalamOAlaikum WaRehmatuAllah WaBarkatuhu

UN Slams Israel's "Shocking Atrocities"

"The entire 1.5 million people who live in the crowded Gaza Strip are being punished for the actions of a few militants," Falk said.

The UN special rapporteur for human rights in the Palestinian territories accused the Israeli army on Tuesday, December 30, of perpetrating atrocities against the civilian population of the Gaza Strip.
"Israel is committing a shocking series of atrocities by using modern weaponry against a defenseless population - attacking a population that has been enduring a severe blockade for many months," Richard Falk, the special rapporteur for human rights in the Palestinian territories, said in a BBC interview.

Children again fell victim to Israel's "all-out war," with two sisters, aged four and 11, dying when a missile slammed into their donkey cart in the northern Gaza town of Beit Hanun.

...Source...

Comment: I hear you MR. Falk, thats what we all thought with a worldwide protests. You finally realised the protest. Great! So when are they showing the interview, during the main news, or at 3am ?

FiAmaaniAllah

 

[Woodrow]

Perhaps, just perhaps the UN has woken up