Unity of muslim nation is deemed necessary now.

[TheRationalizer]

This topic of eternal punishment has been discussed many times here. Please use the search feature to find out what has been said before. Its no use repeating the same over and over again. I am busy right now, otherwise I would have linked you to it.

If you need any 'new' clarification, then you are welcome.

Sorry, you are right. I inadvertently allowed myself to diverge and consequently diverted the thread from it's original subject.

 

[Perseveranze]

It was a tongue-in-cheek remark about how many (but not all) christians believe that it is belief in Jesus alone that gets you into heaven and not your deeds - that Jesus is a kind of "Get out of hell for free" pass.



I don't think there is a single crime that anyone could commit in their finite life time which deserves an infinite punishment, it is infinitely unjust. I am sure that if there is a god and it is a just one then it will be more fair than I am, and I wouldn't punish anyone for eternity no matter what they had done. I certainly wouldn't expect an eternal punishment for something so insignificant that you can't even remember doing it

Asalaamu Alaikum,

Just want to note that there's people out there that constantly Insult God and his prophets(pbut) their whole life, I personally think they do deserve eternal punishment, but the final judge is your Creator.

 

[Watcher888]

what is the point of regurgitating the same crap over you? I have already established and repeatedly that whatever problems Iraq is having should be solved by Iraqis it is certainly not a carte Blanche for you and yours to come killing, maiming and stealing.. to make the analogy so simple that even you can understand.. If I had a fight with my cousin and it got heated, what right have you a complete outsider to come in, not only killing my cousin, but other family members, posing some of them nude, torturing some, mocking the children of my village and then looting the goods and claiming that you were only trying to help-- are you this imbecilic?

Now, Please take a hike I have zero tolerance for simpletons!

I have not given any support for the yanks!
My point about Iraq being in a mess before the yanks went in, was to refute your claim, that nothing was wrong before the yanks went!
When I mentioned the yanks going in, it was to make the point that even after that, and if and when they finally leave.
Iraq will still be a mess!
Now do you understand?

If I had a fight with my cousin and it got heated, what right have you a complete outsider to come in, not only killing my cousin, but other family members, posing some of them nude, torturing some, mocking the children of my village and then looting the goods and claiming that you were only trying to help-- are you this imbecilic?

These things, are not supported by me!
I do not support any war/s, and the things that happen during them!

Iraq under Saddam Hussein had high levels of torture and mass murder.
Secret police, torture, murders, deportations, forced disappearances, assassinations, chemical weapons, and the destruction of wetlands (more specifically, the destruction of the food sources of rival groups) were some of the methods Saddam Hussein used to maintain control. The total number of deaths related to torture and murder during this period are unknown, as are the reports of human rights violations. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International issued regular reports of widespread imprisonment and torture.


Care to comment about this?

 

[Watcher888]

and as I quoted before and the Iraqis themselves stated. Better to suffer of fever than die of it.. You are incredibly thick and I have to maddening a migraine today to spoon feed you common sense!

What are you saying?
Iraq under saddam the despotic mass murderer of your muslim brothers and sisters, is nothing more than a fever!
Doesn't paint a lovely picture does it?

Iraq under Saddam Hussein had high levels of torture and mass murder.
Secret police, torture, murders, deportations, forced disappearances, assassinations, chemical weapons, and the destruction of wetlands (more specifically, the destruction of the food sources of rival groups) were some of the methods Saddam Hussein used to maintain control.[original research?] The total number of deaths related to torture and murder during this period are unknown, as are the reports of human rights violations. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International issued regular reports of widespread imprisonment and torture.
Human rights organizations have documented government-approved executions, acts of torture, and rape for decades since Saddam Hussein came to power in 1979 until his fall in 2003.

In 2002, a resolution sponsored by the European Union was adopted by the Commission for Human Rights, which stated that there had been no improvement in the human rights crisis in Iraq. The statement condemned President Saddam Hussein's government for its "systematic, widespread and extremely grave violations of human rights and international humanitarian law". The resolution demanded that Iraq immediately put an end to its "summary and arbitrary executions... the use of rape as a political tool and all enforced and involuntary disappearances". Full political participation at the national level was restricted only to members of the Arab Ba'ath Party, which constituted only 8% of the population.
Iraqi citizens were not allowed to assemble legally unless it was to express support for the government. The Iraqi government controlled the establishment of political parties, regulated their internal affairs and monitored their activities. Police checkpoints on Iraq's roads and highways prevented ordinary citizens from traveling abroad without government permission and expensive exit visas. Before traveling, an Iraqi citizen had to post collateral. Iraqi women could not travel outside of the country without the escort of a male relative. The activities of citizens living inside Iraq who received money from relatives abroad were closely monitored. Halabja poison gas attack:The Halabja poison gas attack occurred in the period 15–19 March 1988 during the Iran–Iraq War when chemical weapons were used by the Iraqi government forces and thousands of civilians in the Iraqi Kurdish town of Halabja were killed. Al-Anfal Campaign:
In 1988, the Hussein regime began a campaign of extermination against the Kurdish people living in Northern Iraq. This is known as the Anfal campaign. The campaign was mostly directed at Shiite kurds (Faili Kurds) who sided with Iranians during the Iraq-Iran War. The attacks resulted in the death of at least 50,000 (some reports estimate as many as 100,000 people), many of them women and children. A team of Human Rights Watch investigators determined, after analyzing eighteen tons of captured Iraqi documents, testing soil samples and carrying out interviews with more than 350 witnesses, that the attacks on the Kurdish people were characterized by gross violations of human rights, including mass executions and disappearances of many tens of thousands of noncombatants, widespread use of chemical weapons including Sarin, mustard gas and nerve agents that killed thousands, the arbitrary imprisoning of tens of thousands of women, children, and elderly people for months in conditions of extreme deprivation, forced displacement of hundreds of thousands of villagers after the demolition of their homes, and the wholesale destruction of nearly two thousand villages along with their schools, mosques, farms, and power stations.

 

[جوري]

I have not given any support for the yanks!
My point about Iraq being in a mess before the yanks went in, was to refute your claim, that nothing was wrong before the yanks went!
When I mentioned the yanks going in, it was to make the point that even after that, and if and when they finally leave.
Iraq will still be a mess!
Now do you understand?

These things, are not supported by me!
I do not support any war/s, and the things that happen during them!

Iraq under Saddam Hussein had high levels of torture and mass murder.
Secret police, torture, murders, deportations, forced disappearances, assassinations, chemical weapons, and the destruction of wetlands (more specifically, the destruction of the food sources of rival groups) were some of the methods Saddam Hussein used to maintain control. The total number of deaths related to torture and murder during this period are unknown, as are the reports of human rights violations. Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International issued regular reports of widespread imprisonment and torture.


Care to comment about this?

What are you saying? Iraq under saddam the despotic mass murderer of your muslim brothers and sisters, is nothing more than a fever! Doesn't paint a lovely picture does it?

Let me quote an American convert to Islam as he sums up his country best:

Muslims are set up as the scape goat to blame for atrocities perpetrated to justify unjust policies and to distract the US population from what is really going on in America. America is being run by the corporate elite with only their self interests of gaining more power and wealth as objectives with no concern for the general welfare and being of the 'less fortunate' people of the world and of the US.


​

me: your otherwise unsourced drivel is as relevant as you are! Indeed an Iraqi problem requires an Iraqi solution or neighboring intervention, not an invasion by looting, warmongering perverts with a disgusting agenda and the ability to bull **** their way into a very calculated end.
Now kindly take a hike, you give me the creeps!

 

[جوري]

Not sure how people in heaven could possibly spend eternity enjoying paradise whilst people burn in fire for eternity for finite actions.

It is really easy, I imagine along the same way you're able to go on living and enjoying life not knowing that folks like this:

exist in the world.. and for precisely those reasons:

to quote the Noble Quran:
وَإِذَا قِيلَ لَهُمْ أَنفِقُوا مِمَّا رَزَقَكُمْ اللَّهُ قَالَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا لِلَّذِينَ آمَنُوا أَنُطْعِمُ مَن لَّوْ يَشَاء اللَّهُ أَطْعَمَهُ إِنْ أَنتُمْ إِلَّا فِي ضَلَالٍ مُّبِينٍ {47}
[SIZE=-1][Pickthal 36:47] And when it is said unto them: Spend of that wherewith Allah hath provided you, those who disbelieve say unto those who believe: Shall we feed those whom Allah, if He willed, would feed? Ye are in naught else than error manifest.


spend your life not concerned about the well fare of your fellow man if not down right torturing them, spend eternity no one caring for you, amongst other things for life and death are about truth and justice!

all the best[/SIZE]

 

[GuestFellow]

What are you saying?
Iraq under saddam the despotic mass murderer of your muslim brothers and sisters, is nothing more than a fever! Doesn't paint a lovely picture does it?

The US supports dictators that torture, kill and silence their own citizens, like Egypt. When the US invaded Iraq, it made things much worse. The US never really helped the Iraqi citizens...

me: your otherwise unsourced drivel is as relevant as you are! Indeed an Iraqi problem requires an Iraqi solution or neighboring intervention, not an invasion by looting, warmongering perverts with a disgusting agenda and the ability to bull **** their way into a very calculated end. Now kindly take a hike, you give me the creeps!

Exactly. When you want to help people, you don't kill them in the process! :/

 

[Watcher888]

The US supports dictators that torture, kill and silence their own citizens, like Egypt. When the US invaded Iraq, it made things much worse. The US never really helped the Iraqi citizens...





Exactly. When you want to help people, you don't kill them in the process! :/

I do not support the yanks!

And Iraq was only kept down by a murderous regime under saddam!
That killed 1,000's of your brothers and sisters!
No better than the yanks!

 

[جوري]

I do not support the yanks! And Iraq was only kept down by a murderous regime under saddam! That killed 1,000's of your brothers and sisters! No better than the yanks!

your logic or lack thereof is mildly amusing. Again, there are tons of murderous drug lords in Colombia does that give the right to foreign forces to come in and augment that a million folds? You're ridiculous!

 

[GuestFellow]

I do not support the yanks!

And Iraq was only kept down by a murderous regime under saddam!
That killed 1,000's of your brothers and sisters!
No better than the yanks!

I never said you supported America. There are many of murderous regime, like in Uzbekistan and Egypt, and America has no trouble supporting them. America uses human rights to gain public support in order to achieve its political aspirations.

Life in Iraq has gone much worse, things were stable under Saddam, even though he was a tyrant and tortured civilians. Not saying I support Saddam.

 

[Watcher888]

your logic or lack thereof is mildly amusing. Again, there are tons of murderous drug lords in Colombia does that give the right to foreign forces to come in and augment that a million folds? You're ridiculous!

I didn't bring up the subject of the yanks in Iraq!
In that I was promoting their involvement there as beneficial!

This thread is about the 'Unity of the muslim nation'!
And I have just pointed out that Iraq before and during and after(if the yanks clear off) is not united and will not be (based on past recent history), in the way that a muslim nation should be according to islam!
And that is all!

But, anyway thanks for showing gracious good manners!
But, then I am just a kuffar!

 

[جوري]

I didn't bring up the subject of the yanks in Iraq!
In that I was promoting their involvement there as beneficial!

Didn't bring it up but are simply perpetuating equivocations?

This thread is about the 'Unity of the muslim nation'!

Indeed and can't be of concern to you, except for your hope to keep them divided!

And I have just pointed out that Iraq before and during and after(if the yanks clear off) is not united and will not be (based on past recent history), in the way that a muslim nation should be according to islam!
And that is all!

You don't know much about the before and clearly can't predict the after, your input isn't needed nor warranted!

But, anyway thanks for showing gracious good manners!

I can't believe that I have been indeed gracious enough to dignify you with a response!

But, then I am just a kuffar!

You're a KAFFIR! kuffar makes it plural, thanks for highlighting one of the numerous reasons your feedback, comments, questions, complaints, suggestions and backtalk are irrelevant and have very little to do with reality!


all the best

 

[GuestFellow]

In that I was promoting their involvement there as beneficial!

No, it made things worse. It was one of the reasons why July 2005 bombings occurred. Thousands of innocent civilians were killed and many civilians had now refugees. Now, there is violence between Sunni and Shia.

What was exactly beneficial about US involvement?

This thread is about the 'Unity of the muslim nation'!
And I have just pointed out that Iraq before and during and after(if the yanks clear off) is not united and will not be (based on past recent history), in the way that a muslim nation should be according to islam!
And that is all!

How do you know what is going to happen afterwards?

 

[aamirsaab]

Kind reminder to all: stay on topic.

 

[Watcher888]

your logic or lack thereof is mildly amusing. Again, there are tons of murderous drug lords in Colombia does that give the right to foreign forces to come in and augment that a million folds? You're ridiculous!

I do not support the yanks!
Don't you understand that?

You seem to have a fixed view of non muslims, that you can't see past!
Not impressed by your 'Dawah'!

 

[جوري]

I do not support the yanks! Don't you understand that? You seem to have a fixed view of non muslims, that you can't see past! Not impressed by your 'Dawah'!

Why do you keep writing here? dishing out the same crap? You're nothing but a hypocrite, you preach one thing and then deny you're in support of it-- further where have I offered you da3wah? I do not cast pearls before swine!

all the best

 

[GuestFellow]

I do not support the yanks!
Don't you understand that?

You seem to have a fixed view of non muslims, that you can't see past!
Not impressed by your 'Dawah'!

No, there's no Dawah...do you know what it means?

 

[Watcher888]

No, it made things worse. It was one of the reasons why July 2005 bombings occurred.
So now after many muslims have claimed that these bombings were not done by muslims!
But, were false flag attacks!
You say that these 'suicide bombings' were islamic and in retaliation for Iraq!
Thousands of innocent civilians were killed and many civilians had now refugees.
Yes, I agree, but unfortunaely that it is the way the nations of the world wage war!
Hitler had civillains bombed prior to the planned invasion of Britain!
Now, there is violence between Sunni and Shia.
And that must be the muslim/ummah's responsiblity!
After all it took a despot like saddam to keep Iraq under some sort of control!
And he had your muslim kurd brothers and sisters gassed and went to war with Iran!


What was exactly beneficial about US involvement?
I haven't said that it was beneficial!
My two sentences go together to make my point:

I didn't bring up the subject of the yanks in Iraq!
In that I was promoting their involvement there as beneficial!

How do you know what is going to happen afterwards?

I don't know for certain, it was a view based as I said, on Iraq's history!

And I have just pointed out that Iraq before and during and after(if the yanks clear off) is not united and will not be (based on past recent history), in the way that a muslim nation should be according to islam!
And that is all!

 

[Watcher888]

No, there's no Dawah...do you know what it means?

Da‘wah or Dawah (Arabic: دعوة‎) usually denotes the preaching of Islam. Da‘wah literally means "issuing a summons" or "making an invitation", being the active participle of a verb meaning variously "to summon" or "to invite" (whose triconsonantal root is د ع ى). A Muslim who practices da‘wah, either as a religious worker or in a volunteer community effort, is called a dā‘ī, plural du‘āt. A dā‘ī is thus a person who invites people to understand Islam through a dialogical process, and may be categorized in some cases as the Islamic equivalent of a missionary, as one who invites people to the faith, to the prayer, or to Islamic life

I was saying that vales rudeness and smears and insults are not good publicity for islam!
Are they!

 

[جوري]

I was saying that vales rudeness and smears and insults are not good publicity for islam! Are they!

Everything that is written about you is merited by your posts.. be that as it may, no one here is offering you da3wa and that is exactly what guestfellow is asking and implying. Has anyone here invited you to Islam? If so please show me where!.. On has to be of decent character to be a receiver of da3wah and you don't come across as such!

all the best