US to promote gay rights abroad

[Abz2000]

I didn't say homosexuality and Islam were the "same thing". I said both are central to who people are and neither has to be pushed on others nor hidden away to accommodate others.

if sodomy is central to what america is, good luck to them.
if that's what they aspire to, hold to be sacred and in high esteem, worthy of dying for, then wow, it can't be such a bad thing after all,
and since it's not such a bad thing, i'm sure obama and cameron would be offended if i suggested they both practised it 5 times a day.

actually, i feel it's sad that they make all americans out to be promoting such an indecent deed by pretending to be representative of them.
funny how they like to pretend they do everything for votes - as i don't believe the majority of americans or british demanded that they promote sodomy abroad as a condition for getting elected.
but the actual campaign promises they solemnly swear to uphold, and even the laws of the constitution seem to be ok to ignore.

isn't it a fact that they are a far cry from being representatives of the people?

....o yeah, the wars are for democracy...........

 

[Pygoscelis]

if sodomy is central to what america is

It isn't. It isn't even central to what homosexuals are. Note, I didn't mention sodomy. I mentioned homosexuality. Some people are attracted to others of the same gender. That is as central to who they are as a muslims love for his wife is to who the muslim is. If some muslims hate homosexuals for who homosexuals are then that says more about those muslims (which isn't all muslims) than it does about the homosexuals.

I'll leave the rest of this thread alone, as it started with promise but has now devolved into bigotry.

 

[GuestFellow]

We need to make a distinction between sexuality and the act itself. Both are different.

 

[جوري]

. That is as central to who they are as a muslims love for his wife is to who the muslim is

ha?
The thread isn't about homosexuals that keep to the closet is it? rather the export of some kind of societal accommodation to folks openly so. If it were about a mere attraction then it wouldn't make the news would it? tons of people are attracted to tons of other people whom they can't get with, what rights do you propose we have for them?

 

[User29123]

USA thinks it can run every country in the world, they send out threats and such. Seriously this will take a long time before it happens in countries like Iran/Saudi It won't happen soon. They may target poor countries like African/Pakistan but these rich oil countries they won't touch, not yet anyway. ^o)

 

[ariginality]

Note, I didn't mention sodomy. I mentioned homosexuality. Some people are attracted to others of the same gender. That is as central to who they are as a muslims love for his wife is to who the muslim is. If some muslims hate homosexuals for who homosexuals are then that says more about those muslims (which isn't all muslims) than it does about the homosexuals.

I'll leave the rest of this thread alone, as it started with promise but has now devolved into bigotry.

You don't have to mention sodomy, it's implied! lol seriously? If you want to talk about homosexuality, no one can control what another human thinks. Hence, a lie detector's results are inadmissible in court. You're leaving this thread alone because you have nothing intellectual to respond with to what I presented. The actual thread started on the note of "gay" not homosexuality nor sodomy. But realistically, none of these exist in reference to males without sodomy. No one ever said to males can't live together. Sex is a part of marriage and in Islam it is quite explicitly a part of marriage. So when you are here defending gay marriage, you're implicitly defending sodomy. "oh i wasn't supporting gay marriage just gay rights"... save the b.s., marriage or not, sodomy is implied, among other sins, and Muslims don't want it in their society (sodomy is just an easy, key reference point, so don't get hung up on the word). This thread started with promise until I came and shut it down! Because people who defend gay rights have no fundamental basis in history, they have nothing to compare their fight to, and if the west wants to allow it, they shouldn't push their beliefs on the rest... hypocrite

 

[ariginality]

as it started with promise but has now devolved into bigotry.

Plus, this is an Islamic site! lol, if you're interested in a religion that evolves go argue w the Christians or the atheistic evolutionists... maybe men will be able to have babies in another thousand years, just ask Darwin

 

[Crystal]

Lol thats funny, didn't they also just legalise homosexuality in the military ? Even though women can't fight in combat!

I don't really care if a person is gay as long as they are behind closed doors but this whole notion of celebrating being gay is confusing young people thats why society is messed up!

 

[Wyatt]

Gays feel the right to be able to marry in a country that claims to have a freedom of religion implying freedom from religion.

I think that makes sense. It has nothing to do with "what happens behind closed doors" implying homosexuality is merely sexual deviancy as some might like to make it. People will call it a "chosen lifestyle" but how is it really? At what age did you choose to be straight?

As one of these despicable gays myself, I would really appreciate the chance to marry whom I love and receive the benefits of it being recognized by the government, and that's not necessarily a financial concern. I would like for my partner to be able to make medical decisions on my behalf and visit me in the hospital. My partner is in the military and if anything happens to him, I am homeless because I have no family to go to and I am on the other side of the country from my friends. The only real reason why it should be unrecognized is because of religion.

Religion is perfectly fine to say what they think is or is not right, so I am 100% against people fighting to be able to have gay marriage in churches, mosques, etc. I am also 100% against the gay parades where men and women flaunt around in rainbow underwear. It really paints a disgusting image that does not gain any appreciation for these people.

To someone scrutinized and told they're disgusting for being who they are, they know no sympathy when the offensive group feels disrespected for not being able to oppress them anymore. In other words, this image can be applied to this situation to make my point:

View attachment 4480

In other countries, this is a different deal. For the theocracies in the Middle East, if they want to murder gays, that's none of anyone else's business. It will just make them look bad for when other countries modernize and learn to accept realities that might make them feel uncomfortable.

In another point, I obviously don't think the USA should partake in most of its dealings across seas because we have enough on our own plates to worry about others. Human rights is important, but we have had so many issues with that since the beginning of our own formation, who are we to tell others what to do?

There are Christian radio personalities that are against anti-bullying laws because they claim it "indoctrinates" their children into accepting differences and won't be allowed to become violent against someone else for such reasons. I think this crosses the line when children have had a trend of suicide and others are enjoying such misery taking place on the children and families.

More pain and anguish comes from oppressing others than treating them like equals and assuring them the chance to pursue their own happiness. To those who equate loving someone to such a thing as murder, I'm really sort of sad someone could be made to think like that. I saw a gay Vietnam veteran's gravestone that had the words "WHEN I WAS IN THE MILITARY I WAS GIVEN A MEDAL FOR KILLING TWO MEN AND A DISCHARGE FOR LOVING ONE."

 

[جوري]

Gays feel the right to be able to marry in a country that claims to have a freedom of religion implying freedom from religion

Marriage is a religious ceremony before the eyes of God. God has decreed that the only marriages recognizable are between man and woman and there are limits set on that even. If you desire a marriage outside of that it wouldn't be recognized, unless you've a civil union and in a secular govt. I wouldn't see a problem with that. But we don't want to live under secular laws of moral decay and bankruptcy. We're not dehumanizing gays, I believe they do that to themselves when they choose to identify themselves by their sexual acts rather than who they are as people and if they can't be people outside of homosexuality then I pity them indeed. If you didn't advertise your homosexuality we'd have no way of knowing and that's usually the case with all human beings. We don't know who is in love, who is stood up at the alter, who is widowed, who is separated unless it is something they advertised. Some things should be held sacred. And disapproving of homosexuality doesn't equate with hate crimes, or bullying or a dishonorable discharge. One should hate the sin not the sinner and every sinner has a chance to repent. Everyone choose who they bed. Everyone does!
There are many who desire to be married and can't be, those who love certain individuals and end up choosing differently for whatever reason, choosing to love is one thing, choosing to act on an impulse is another.
Someone might have very strong feelings for a woman who can't stand him, should he rape her because that's just how he feels? We've instincts all of us do, it doesn't mean we should act on them. I don't despise you for being gay, I certainly don't approve of your lifestyle. I am not going to wake up and think it is alternative to get with the time. It was a sin then and it is a sin now, but it is also your choice.. I might wish that you'd make the right choice but I can't force you to, I also don't want it to be forced on me as a social norm..

best,

 

[ariginality]

People will call it a "chosen lifestyle" but how is it really? At what age did you choose to be straight?

As one of these despicable gays myself, I would really appreciate the chance to marry whom I love and receive the benefits of it being recognized by the government, and that's not necessarily a financial concern. I would like for my partner to be able to make medical decisions on my behalf and visit me in the hospital. My partner is in the military and if anything happens to him, I am homeless because I have no family to go to and I am on the other side of the country from my friends. The only real reason why it should be unrecognized is because of religion.

You are making the bold assumption that just because someone chooses not to have sex with another of the same sex that they are straight. But reality is that the being straight is not the only alternative. So you do choose who you have sex with don't you? You choose to have sex and be in a relationship with your partner. You were not born in that circumstance. Just as a person chooses to practice heterosexual activities when they engage. They are not born that way either. Is a nun straight? (I would say priest but most of them are pedophiles).

As for your rights. Inheritance is determined by a living will not a marriage certificate. I recall being asked many time for "Emergency contact information" and I'm not married. But if your real stance is that you want to get married for possible medical concerns, then you should take up your battle with medical community, not the government

 

[Ramadhan]

This stance by USA to promote gay rights abroad is so random.

Why not promoting people who have incestuous feelings? Do they not have rights to get married as well?
They were "born that way" too, no?

Why not promoting people who want to get married to multiple partners?

Why not promoting the rights of people who want to get married to their pets?

 

[Abz2000]

they already do in some parts:

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[TD="colspan: 3"]Man 'marries' dog to beat curse[/TD]
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[TD="width: 416"][TABLE="width: 203, align: right"]
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[TD="class: sibtbg, bgcolor: #EEEEDD"]
The "bride" wore a sari and a garland.

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An Indian man has "married" a female dog, hoping the move will help atone for stoning two other dogs to death.

P Selvakumar, 33, said he had been cursed since the killings, suffering paralysis and a loss of hearing.
The wedding took place at a Hindu temple in Tamil Nadu state.
The "bride" wore an orange sari with a flower garland and was fed a bun to celebrate.[/TD]
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"On the advice of an astrologer and others, he decided to marry a bi*ch to get cured.
Then we arranged Selvakumar's marriage with a bi*ch.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7093422.stm

 

[Abz2000]

then they went in.......................................

 

[Riana17]

Asalam

We are all equal and I feel really sad for gay for they are weak.
Till today no one can fully explain why there are gays or gays really exist and why?

Promoting gay rights? I didnt get it, if that means allowing them to marry each other or the like, I would say no. Because Quran says no. as simple as that.

 

[GuestFellow]

Because Quran says no. as simple as that.

Salaam,

It is not as simple as that unfortunately. Some people don't believe in Islam. There needs to be an argument that can persuade non-Muslims that gay marriage will cause problems. Like members have raised issues concerning people marrying their immediate family members, animals, objects and so on...

 

[Aprender]

There needs to be an argument that can persuade non-Muslims that gay marriage will cause problems.

Outside of religion the psychology used to condemn this behavior but now the tune has changed to declaring this as something normal.

It also isn't helping to discourage the behavior when we get articles like this one: Gay marriage 'improves health'. :hmm: I feel like people will pay anyone these days to do research that will say anything.

May Allah guide us all. Ameeeen

 

[GuestFellow]

Outside of religion the psychology used to condemn this behavior but now the tune has changed to declaring this as something normal.

Salaam,

Are you saying that homosexuality is a mental illness? I don't believe that unless you can present evidence. I have a relative who is gay but does not engage in such acts. He is perfectly normal, very hardworking and successful. Nothing mentally wrong with him.

The only reason why some homosexuals suffer from mentally illnesses is because some members of the society are very judgemental towards homosexuals. They are human beings with emotions and feelings but are treated worse than rapists.

 

[Riana17]

Salaam,

It is not as simple as that unfortunately. Some people don't believe in Islam. There needs to be an argument that can persuade non-Muslims that gay marriage will cause problems. Like members have raised issues concerning people marrying their immediate family members, animals, objects and so on...

Salam Ukoi, I was talking about my personal support. I wouldnt support any of that because its against the Book of Allah, if Allah allows it, why not, Im just a follower

But I wouldnt involve myself in this issue, there is no votation anyway, i have to mind my own business

 

[Abz2000]

anyone who's worked in mental health can tell you that it is possible to create and un-create imaginary diagnosis according to requirement or whim,
even your suspicion of a liar can be constructed to label you paranoid, or your murderous acts can be justified as a normal reaction to the circumstances.
anything that is not the social norm can be classed as an abnormality if one pleases, since they have no fixed standard of evaluation,
it was considered a mental illness until politicians began decriminalizing it. now questioning government lies can even be labelled as a mental illness.
to hell with them.

Prior to and throughout most of the 20th century, common standard psychology viewed homosexuality in terms of pathological models as a mental illness. That classification began to be subjected to critical scrutiny in the research, which consistently failed to produce any empirical or scientific basis for regarding homosexuality as a disorder or abnormality. As a result of such accumulated research, professionals in medicine, mental health, and the behavioral and social sciences, opposing the classification of homosexuality as a mental disorder, claimed the conclusion that it was inaccurate, and that the DSM classification reflected untested assumptions that were based on once-prevalent social norms and clinical impressions from unrepresentative samples which consisted of patients seeking therapy and individuals whose conduct brought them into the criminal justice system.[1]
Since the 1970s, the consensus of the behavioral and social sciences and the health and mental health professions has moved to the belief that homosexuality is a normal variation of human sexual orientation, while there remain those who maintain that it is a disorder.[2] In 1973, the American Psychiatric Association declassified homosexuality as a mental disorder. The American Psychological Association Council of Representatives followed in 1975.[3] Consequently, while some still believe homosexuality is a mental disorder, the current research and clinical literature now only demonstrate that same-sex sexual and romantic attractions, feelings, and behaviors are normal and positive variations of human sexuality, reflecting the official positions of the American Psychiatric Association and the American Psychological Association.